Hi Shan, now that you’re back (hope you had a nice break!), is there any chance of an update on this please?
I’m still looking for confirmation of the bug that was proven by the community, details of a fix (or if it has already been implemented) and info on any form of individual or widespread compensation for the shuttle missions that failed/mission concluded that shouldn’t.
Cheers!
And that word compensation, is my guess as to why we won't hear boo.
I'm willing to sign anything you want stating I want no compensation just acknowledgement of the status of the bug and/or fix and I don't think I'm alone in that.
I’m not willing to accept no compensation. I am willing to accept an arrangement that acknowledges everyone was affected the same, so really only transmissions have been wasted and we’re so sorry this has taken so long to address - here’s 10,000 merits redress and 1 x gold citation.
That would be realistic in my opinion and cost DB very little, especially compared to the damage caused by players bringing it up every time there is a faction event.
But the important thing, which could be acknowledged first and separately to any compensation, is HAS IT BEEN FIXED YET OR IS IT GOING TO BE?
Hi Shan, now that you’re back (hope you had a nice break!), is there any chance of an update on this please?
I’m still looking for confirmation of the bug that was proven by the community, details of a fix (or if it has already been implemented) and info on any form of individual or widespread compensation for the shuttle missions that failed/mission concluded that shouldn’t.
Cheers!
And that word compensation, is my guess as to why we won't hear boo.
I'm willing to sign anything you want stating I want no compensation just acknowledgement of the status of the bug and/or fix and I don't think I'm alone in that.
I’m not willing to accept no compensation. I am willing to accept an arrangement that acknowledges everyone was affected the same, so really only transmissions have been wasted and we’re so sorry this has taken so long to address - here’s 10,000 merits redress and 1 x gold citation.
That would be realistic in my opinion and cost DB very little, especially compared to the damage caused by players bringing it up every time there is a faction event.
But the important thing, which could be acknowledged first and separately to any compensation, is HAS IT BEEN FIXED YET OR IS IT GOING TO BE?
Again as that will be pretty wide scale, I think that's the lynchpin of why we will never know.
I’d back this. if we could just get an acknowledgement of the existence of the bug, that would be a start.
People like me can bleat on, rightly or wrongly in your eyes, for compensation - but we all agree on seeking the confirmation of the problem. And Is the fix in place or not?
Or at the very least, as previously stated by me and several others, say, "We looked into the issue and it does not currently exist." That doesn't have to include any admission that there was ever a problem.
Or at the very least, as previously stated by me and several others, say, "We looked into the issue and it does not currently exist." That doesn't have to include any admission that there was ever a problem.
The problem there is that we’ve proven beyond reasonable doubt that there was an issue due to the high number of samples taken in the original community lead investigation.
So if DB were to say the issue never did exist, we’d know they were lying , not investigating properly or not understanding the issue. If they were to say it does not currently exist, that could mean it’s been fixed quietly, but many of us would still want an acknowledgment that there was a problem.
This really shouldn't be this marinating tofu hard. Shan, Riker, anybody, can you at least just clarify how an AND slot is supposed to be calculated?
We all know how it's supposed to be calculated which we're pretty sure is how it's calculated now. DB just refuses to admit they had a bug for a year and continued to tell players they were wrong while refusing to investigate what should have been a simple bug to find and fix.
The issue I’ve heard from people in my fleet and on this board, is that without confirmation of what is correct, people don’t trust that it is fixed. They don’t want an apology, just confirmation that everything is working correctly.
Unfortunately, having DB confirm that everything is working correctly is like a used car salesperson claiming that the previous owner never drove on the freeway and only drove on Sundays. DB kept telling us that shuttles were "working as intended" and that we were wrong until we finally proved that they *weren't* working as intended.
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Dilithium Causes Cancer, maxed Starbase level 134
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Hey @Shan , another faction event is coming up. With DB's credibility less than 0 from Yargate, maybe you want to try to earn some of it back by coming clean on this one?
We are never going to get an answer. If they intended to answer they would have already done so. It’s an exercise in futility to continue asking when the answer is already a foregone conclusion.
Then Shan can close the thread and definitively prove that they are going to lie to us about this.
"The first step in solving a problem is recognizing there is one."
DB's problem is they refuse to listen to any player gameplay complaint and chalk everything up to RNG. Until they admit that problem, they will never eliminate all the errors we see. If you're happy with the non-stop errors, feel free to drop this, but then I trust you will be quiet about every future error DB makes. Personally I am going to keep bringing this up until DB recognizes its problem so it can start to correct it.
Personally I am going to keep bringing this up until DB recognizes its problem so it can start to correct it.
I admire your dedication to the cause.
I also think it’s an exercise in futility as DB admitting it was broken in the first place and then stealth fixed only will ignite massive backlash, pitchforks, tar & feathers and demands for compensation. So I understand their complete deafening silence on the issue... do not deny or confirm anything is the safest and cheapest route to take.
But I still admire your dedication... like Hachiko waiting for his dead master to come home from work at the train station everyday. Keep the candle burning mate.
Well, I said I would keep up on this, but I feel it is time for me to stop kicking this dead horse. Shan is good at her job and keeps us updated as best she can so I have only one conclusion to come up with. We are not going to get an answer. It has been a long time since we got the news that she was going to put in a bug report. We would have heard by now at least a....
"we're still looking into it"
"it is a tough one to suss out"
"we have not been able to reproduce in house"
"I haven't gotten an update"
Whatever.
Something.
The lack of any post from her means that she was told not to. Yes this is speculation and this thread can be closed stating that it is such and going nowhere just like all the others. If we want to know for sure if it has been fixed, we will just have to do our own testing just like was done to figure out that there really was a problem in the first place.
Well, I said I would keep up on this, but I feel it is time for me to stop kicking this dead horse. Shan is good at her job and keeps us updated as best she can so I have only one conclusion to come up with. We are not going to get an answer. It has been a long time since we got the news that she was going to put in a bug report. We would have heard by now at least a....
"we're still looking into it"
"it is a tough one to suss out"
"we have not been able to reproduce in house"
"I haven't gotten an update"
Whatever.
Something.
The lack of any post from her means that she was told not to. Yes this is speculation and this thread can be closed stating that it is such and going nowhere just like all the others. If we want to know for sure if it has been fixed, we will just have to do our own testing just like was done to figure out that there really was a problem in the first place.
Can we escalate this by having Shan’s boss or current product manager respond to this?
Well, I said I would keep up on this, but I feel it is time for me to stop kicking this dead horse. Shan is good at her job and keeps us updated as best she can so I have only one conclusion to come up with. We are not going to get an answer. It has been a long time since we got the news that she was going to put in a bug report. We would have heard by now at least a....
"we're still looking into it"
"it is a tough one to suss out"
"we have not been able to reproduce in house"
"I haven't gotten an update"
Whatever.
Something.
The lack of any post from her means that she was told not to. Yes this is speculation and this thread can be closed stating that it is such and going nowhere just like all the others. If we want to know for sure if it has been fixed, we will just have to do our own testing just like was done to figure out that there really was a problem in the first place.
Can we escalate this by having Shan’s boss or current product manager respond to this?
I suspect we wouldn't want that. I have no evidence, but I suspect Shan is way more open and desirous to share than her superiors. I would trust her way more than them. Essentially, the fact that she has not responded means that it is fixed but they won't let her talk.
They've never admitted a problem exists, so why would they admit it's been fixed?
Only player testing will tell us what we need to know.
Next time a Faction comes up I'm not interested in ranking I'll do my own.
To be fair, the only way I discovered how to play ANY of this game is through other players gathering data and informing me the best way to do things. DB has provided precious little in terms of gameplay info. Basically, when I started it was a nightmare. I'm literally not even sure why I kept playing and have done as well as I have. Sheer boredom. If I hadn't picked it up within the last 2 years I would have lasted a day. I've just got too much time on my hands is all.
I really do think it is valuable to keep this thread at the top, if nothing more then to demonstrate that we won't just let it go. If DB thinks they can just ignore issues they will do it more and more. Keeping these alive until addressed doesn't seem like much when there is 1 issue, but at some point there will be a critical mass that needs attention. (one would hope)
I really do think it is valuable to keep this thread at the top, if nothing more then to demonstrate that we won't just let it go. If DB thinks they can just ignore issues they will do it more and more. Keeping these alive until addressed doesn't seem like much when there is 1 issue, but at some point there will be a critical mass that needs attention. (one would hope)
Agreed. I've heard it said the hopeless causes are the ones worth fighting for.
The longer this debacle continues, the more goodwill is eroded. It doesn't have to be this way. I find DB's conduct both saddening and incomprehensible.
Well, I said I would keep up on this, but I feel it is time for me to stop kicking this dead horse. Shan is good at her job and keeps us updated as best she can so I have only one conclusion to come up with. We are not going to get an answer. It has been a long time since we got the news that she was going to put in a bug report. We would have heard by now at least a....
"we're still looking into it"
"it is a tough one to suss out"
"we have not been able to reproduce in house"
"I haven't gotten an update"
Whatever.
Something.
The lack of any post from her means that she was told not to. Yes this is speculation and this thread can be closed stating that it is such and going nowhere just like all the others. If we want to know for sure if it has been fixed, we will just have to do our own testing just like was done to figure out that there really was a problem in the first place.
Can we escalate this by having Shan’s boss or current product manager respond to this?
My whole point was that I believe those people above her have told her that the official answer is no answer.
Our only recourse at this point is to do the work to figure it out for ourselves. I have a bunch of merits and transmissions saved up. I wasn't planning to do more than thresholds this event so I will gather data. Also during the week I will run missions to get more. If someone is going to take up the task of crunching the data, I will send what I get. We can figure out once and for all if there was a stealth fix and go on with our lives from there.
I am positive the no-comment decision was made by people above Shan and she's only following orders. But the only way for that to change is to continue to post and have Shan report that we're not going to let it drop.
I am positive the no-comment decision was made by people above Shan and she's only following orders. But the only way for that to change is to continue to post and have Shan report that we're not going to let it drop.
I’m certainly not letting it drop.
For me it was the frustration of knowing something was wrong for ages, submitting tickets, discussing in threads on here, in community chat rooms etc. I was repeatedly dismissed as not understanding how averages/probability works.
Some months later some fine folks here put a lot of work into a real study and proved we weren’t going mad and there was a real problem.
This really stings DB! Please can we work something out?
I really do think it is valuable to keep this thread at the top, if nothing more then to demonstrate that we won't just let it go. If DB thinks they can just ignore issues they will do it more and more. Keeping these alive until addressed doesn't seem like much when there is 1 issue, but at some point there will be a critical mass that needs attention. (one would hope)
I'm under no illusion it'll get addressed, but by keeping visibility it'll certainly inform anyone coming to the forum as to the type of company DB is.
I feel sorry for anyone renting out space in DB's offices, must be hell navigating all those elephants in the room.
Comments
I’m not willing to accept no compensation. I am willing to accept an arrangement that acknowledges everyone was affected the same, so really only transmissions have been wasted and we’re so sorry this has taken so long to address - here’s 10,000 merits redress and 1 x gold citation.
That would be realistic in my opinion and cost DB very little, especially compared to the damage caused by players bringing it up every time there is a faction event.
But the important thing, which could be acknowledged first and separately to any compensation, is HAS IT BEEN FIXED YET OR IS IT GOING TO BE?
Again as that will be pretty wide scale, I think that's the lynchpin of why we will never know.
@Shan, that's not too much to ask, is it?
Maybe the developers that wrote this left the company already.
Or maybe.... Is it possible that DB also has no clue how it works because the algorithm is spaghetti code and don’t make sense??
I’d back this. if we could just get an acknowledgement of the existence of the bug, that would be a start.
People like me can bleat on, rightly or wrongly in your eyes, for compensation - but we all agree on seeking the confirmation of the problem. And Is the fix in place or not?
The problem there is that we’ve proven beyond reasonable doubt that there was an issue due to the high number of samples taken in the original community lead investigation.
So if DB were to say the issue never did exist, we’d know they were lying , not investigating properly or not understanding the issue. If they were to say it does not currently exist, that could mean it’s been fixed quietly, but many of us would still want an acknowledgment that there was a problem.
Unfortunately, having DB confirm that everything is working correctly is like a used car salesperson claiming that the previous owner never drove on the freeway and only drove on Sundays. DB kept telling us that shuttles were "working as intended" and that we were wrong until we finally proved that they *weren't* working as intended.
Privileged to be Admiral of the Great Fleet
Dilithium Causes Cancer, maxed Starbase level 134
Featuring photonic flee free holodecks and
All you can drink Neelix's Even Better Than Coffee Substitute!
"The first step in solving a problem is recognizing there is one."
DB's problem is they refuse to listen to any player gameplay complaint and chalk everything up to RNG. Until they admit that problem, they will never eliminate all the errors we see. If you're happy with the non-stop errors, feel free to drop this, but then I trust you will be quiet about every future error DB makes. Personally I am going to keep bringing this up until DB recognizes its problem so it can start to correct it.
I admire your dedication to the cause.
I also think it’s an exercise in futility as DB admitting it was broken in the first place and then stealth fixed only will ignite massive backlash, pitchforks, tar & feathers and demands for compensation. So I understand their complete deafening silence on the issue... do not deny or confirm anything is the safest and cheapest route to take.
But I still admire your dedication... like Hachiko waiting for his dead master to come home from work at the train station everyday. Keep the candle burning mate.
"we're still looking into it"
"it is a tough one to suss out"
"we have not been able to reproduce in house"
"I haven't gotten an update"
Whatever.
Something.
The lack of any post from her means that she was told not to. Yes this is speculation and this thread can be closed stating that it is such and going nowhere just like all the others. If we want to know for sure if it has been fixed, we will just have to do our own testing just like was done to figure out that there really was a problem in the first place.
Can we escalate this by having Shan’s boss or current product manager respond to this?
I suspect we wouldn't want that. I have no evidence, but I suspect Shan is way more open and desirous to share than her superiors. I would trust her way more than them. Essentially, the fact that she has not responded means that it is fixed but they won't let her talk.
Or it’s still broken but they still don’t want her to talk.
Only player testing will tell us what we need to know.
Next time a Faction comes up I'm not interested in ranking I'll do my own.
To be fair, the only way I discovered how to play ANY of this game is through other players gathering data and informing me the best way to do things. DB has provided precious little in terms of gameplay info. Basically, when I started it was a nightmare. I'm literally not even sure why I kept playing and have done as well as I have. Sheer boredom. If I hadn't picked it up within the last 2 years I would have lasted a day. I've just got too much time on my hands is all.
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Agreed. I've heard it said the hopeless causes are the ones worth fighting for.
My whole point was that I believe those people above her have told her that the official answer is no answer.
Our only recourse at this point is to do the work to figure it out for ourselves. I have a bunch of merits and transmissions saved up. I wasn't planning to do more than thresholds this event so I will gather data. Also during the week I will run missions to get more. If someone is going to take up the task of crunching the data, I will send what I get. We can figure out once and for all if there was a stealth fix and go on with our lives from there.
I’m certainly not letting it drop.
For me it was the frustration of knowing something was wrong for ages, submitting tickets, discussing in threads on here, in community chat rooms etc. I was repeatedly dismissed as not understanding how averages/probability works.
Some months later some fine folks here put a lot of work into a real study and proved we weren’t going mad and there was a real problem.
This really stings DB! Please can we work something out?
I'm under no illusion it'll get addressed, but by keeping visibility it'll certainly inform anyone coming to the forum as to the type of company DB is.
I feel sorry for anyone renting out space in DB's offices, must be hell navigating all those elephants in the room.
That would sure be nice...sadly, I think this is going to be the only response we ever get:
Or this