This event has tons of shuttle seats with reverse AND skill. Is it safe to send out higher second skill crew or not?
Just ignore the shuttle mission that are 6 or you don't feel comfortable doing and open a new one, preferably with fewer seats. Provided you have a lot of mission transmissions.
You can use 2nd crew, just don't forget your boosts.
The *only* confirmation that we're likely to get on whether the "And" bug is fixed is a comment that everything is "working as expected":
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This thread has stayed civil and on topic. If you start exclusively talking about DB closing other threads, they will have good reason to close this one.
On topic, I feel like I can trust the displayed success rates. But have no data to back it up.
This really shouldn't be this marinating tofu hard. Shan, Riker, anybody, can you at least just clarify how an AND slot is supposed to be calculated?
We all know how it's supposed to be calculated which we're pretty sure is how it's calculated now. DB just refuses to admit they had a bug for a year and continued to tell players they were wrong while refusing to investigate what should have been a simple bug to find and fix.
This really shouldn't be this marinating tofu hard. Shan, Riker, anybody, can you at least just clarify how an AND slot is supposed to be calculated?
We all know how it's supposed to be calculated which we're pretty sure is how it's calculated now. DB just refuses to admit they had a bug for a year and continued to tell players they were wrong while refusing to investigate what should have been a simple bug to find and fix.
The issue I’ve heard from people in my fleet and on this board, is that without confirmation of what is correct, people don’t trust that it is fixed. They don’t want an apology, just confirmation that everything is working correctly.
This really shouldn't be this marinating tofu hard. Shan, Riker, anybody, can you at least just clarify how an AND slot is supposed to be calculated?
We all know how it's supposed to be calculated which we're pretty sure is how it's calculated now. DB just refuses to admit they had a bug for a year and continued to tell players they were wrong while refusing to investigate what should have been a simple bug to find and fix.
The issue I’ve heard from people in my fleet and on this board, is that without confirmation of what is correct, people don’t trust that it is fixed. They don’t want an apology, just confirmation that everything is working correctly.
There are new players in my fleet who've not heard of it. Most of us simply aren't sure, and me personally, I go with skill one. If there is a skill two able to be filled as well, I'll go for it. I've had too many frustrations in the past to trust its been fixed without some confirmation, and I'm not going to ask other players to do the work because that means they lose out with failed shuttles.
This really shouldn't be this marinating tofu hard. Shan, Riker, anybody, can you at least just clarify how an AND slot is supposed to be calculated?
We all know how it's supposed to be calculated which we're pretty sure is how it's calculated now. DB just refuses to admit they had a bug for a year and continued to tell players they were wrong while refusing to investigate what should have been a simple bug to find and fix.
The issue I’ve heard from people in my fleet and on this board, is that without confirmation of what is correct, people don’t trust that it is fixed. They don’t want an apology, just confirmation that everything is working correctly.
This is how I feel. I’m not expecting a raft of shuttle boosts or crew/dilithium/honor, I just want a two- or three-paragraph post about what the bug was, why they didn’t see it at first, a thank you to the people who put a lot of work in to prove the issue really existed, and a confirmation that it is fixed moving forward. I would take just that last item, too, if that was all that DB was willing to give us.
The other piece of this puzzle is that the order crew show up in the shuttle crew selection window certainly does not weight the first skill as being more important. If players are unaware of this bug, they are likely just picking the crew at or near the top, which may not be optimizing their shuttle success rates.
failed 2/4 with 93%+ chance, so I am pretty sure this is still not fixed.
could you provide the shuttle skills and the crew loaded? 93% can happen by chance, it just *the act of creating suction with your mouth*, however it is hard to tell without seeing if those specific shuttles had a large swing in expected value from opposite loaded crew.
failed 2/4 with 93%+ chance, so I am pretty sure this is still not fixed.
could you provide the shuttle skills and the crew loaded? 93% can happen by chance, it just *the act of creating suction with your mouth*, however it is hard to tell without seeing if those specific shuttles had a large swing in expected value from opposite loaded crew.
While I had the % over 90, I only failed one, so to me it seems accurate.
I believe it is fixed, but I have had enough unexpected failures the past two events to sow some seeds of doubt at the back of my mind again.
I also wonder why it seems that, if I have a failure, the shuttle ferrying the shared crew member seems to almost always be the one. And I always balance out my success chances between all four shuttles as much as possible, so varying percentages can't be the cause.
Any chance there were multiple bugs at play, and we're still left with one?
I believe it is fixed, but I have had enough unexpected failures the past two events to sow some seeds of doubt at the back of my mind again.
I also wonder why it seems that, if I have a failure, the shuttle ferrying the shared crew member seems to almost always be the one. And I always balance out my success chances between all four shuttles as much as possible, so varying percentages can't be the cause.
Any chance there were multiple bugs at play, and we're still left with one?
That's totally possible (if unlikely). The best way to show it is to collect the statistics.
I approach all faction missions the same way. I have a spreadsheet that I load up the night before that orders event crew, variants and then a list of my best regular crew. This page grabs their stats and calculates Higher + Lower / 4 for & as well as Lower + Higher /4 for reverse and. When the event starts, I fill another tab with the faction, # of seats then what skills the seats require as I send my first wave during quickstart. Once I get all mt 1.5 hr shuttles done, I make a quick seating chart and send the first wave of 3 hr shuttles. These are usually 2750 VP with 24 shuttles like this event. I usually pass them with all above 90%, but this time I failed 2. While these shuttles are away, I use that bit of time to really comb through my spreadsheet to figure out who fits in which seat the best with as many using main & not rev & and sometimes they are 7th down the list of suggested crew in the app.
For this event, I have all shuttles between 92-95% at 4k VP and haven't failed any. Two seats are rev &.
I don't know what happened with that first wave where 2 failed and wish I had noted who I sent so I could see if there were any rev & crew.
TL;DR I cannot confirm that the And has been fixed with my limited experiance, but I am planning as if it hasn't.
We’d need a similar group effort to collect and analyse shuttle mission results in order to prove it is fixed.
For me, proving the AND issue in the first place was way beyond what we should be expected to do (especially since many of us had been reporting something was amiss for a long time). And it’s been totally ignored aside from Shan saying it would be looked into.
There’s no ‘win’ for DB here and the longer they leave the issue open, the deeper they dig their own grave.
The problem is that proving they were broken was much easier with regards to sample size and evidence, proving that they are working is a much higher threshold. That is why we really need a large working group OR just get an answer.
I had no bigger interest in this event and played only for threshold and out. So I took the 3-seater mission from the Federation " Probing for details " and took a crew that matched only the second skill in each seat. It was Ru'afo for Eng , Surak for Sci and Yelgrun for Cmd. Each one immortalized and I had 92% without boosts and I don't used boosts.
13 of 14 missions succeeded.
I know its only a small number but I think they have fixed it.
Last fall, DB updated how "AND" slots were supposed to be scored. Instead of averaging the two skills, they indicated they would use the higher of the two skills and then add 25% of the lower skill as a bonus.
The front-end displayed percentages seemed to agree with this new formula. However, lots of people complained about getting bad results. "RNG whining" is nothing new to the forum, but, eventually, people started generating actual statistics that showed there was almost certainly something wrong "somewhere" (even if it was difficult to identify).
Over the course of weeks/months, the AND slot behavior was identified and the linked thread above are research results where some people loaded AND slots "backwards". That is, if the slot was SKILL 1 AND SKILL 2, they would send a character with just SKILL 2. These missions saw an enormous increase in failures as opposed to AND slots loaded "forwards".
Essentially, there was a disconnect between the displayed expected success rate and the actually mission success calculation. The front end expected rate was using the newly advertised formula and the back end mission success was, instead, using FIRST/SECOND skill instead of HIGHER/LOWER.
Shan eventually posts that she has created a ticket and the team is looking into it. A month or so later, they release a "shuttle revamp" which introduced a new success/fail screen along with additional rewards on failure. Additionally, it appears the Front/Back end discrepancy has gone away.
DB has yet to acknowledge they changed anything in regards to shuttle success rates. Had it not taken such an effort from the community to demonstrate the error, I don't think there would be nearly as much frustration or expectations. Because it took so much community-generated evidence for DB to even bother investigating, we kind of expect them to share their findings with the community and at least admit that, yes, there was a problem.
Hi Shan, now that you’re back (hope you had a nice break!), is there any chance of an update on this please?
I’m still looking for confirmation of the bug that was proven by the community, details of a fix (or if it has already been implemented) and info on any form of individual or widespread compensation for the shuttle missions that failed/mission concluded that shouldn’t.
Hi Shan, now that you’re back (hope you had a nice break!), is there any chance of an update on this please?
I’m still looking for confirmation of the bug that was proven by the community, details of a fix (or if it has already been implemented) and info on any form of individual or widespread compensation for the shuttle missions that failed/mission concluded that shouldn’t.
Cheers!
And that word compensation, is my guess as to why we won't hear boo.
I'm willing to sign anything you want stating I want no compensation just acknowledgement of the status of the bug and/or fix and I don't think I'm alone in that.
Comments
I don’t trust it. I always follow The discovered procedure
Just ignore the shuttle mission that are 6 or you don't feel comfortable doing and open a new one, preferably with fewer seats. Provided you have a lot of mission transmissions.
You can use 2nd crew, just don't forget your boosts.
Let him close it. We'll open a new thread. Let them continue to close threads until they're forced to acknowledge that they are avoiding the question.
Ha! Copy and paste at this point right?
Privileged to be Admiral of the Great Fleet
Dilithium Causes Cancer, maxed Starbase level 134
Featuring photonic flee free holodecks and
All you can drink Neelix's Even Better Than Coffee Substitute!
On topic, I feel like I can trust the displayed success rates. But have no data to back it up.
We all know how it's supposed to be calculated which we're pretty sure is how it's calculated now. DB just refuses to admit they had a bug for a year and continued to tell players they were wrong while refusing to investigate what should have been a simple bug to find and fix.
The issue I’ve heard from people in my fleet and on this board, is that without confirmation of what is correct, people don’t trust that it is fixed. They don’t want an apology, just confirmation that everything is working correctly.
There are new players in my fleet who've not heard of it. Most of us simply aren't sure, and me personally, I go with skill one. If there is a skill two able to be filled as well, I'll go for it. I've had too many frustrations in the past to trust its been fixed without some confirmation, and I'm not going to ask other players to do the work because that means they lose out with failed shuttles.
Check out our website to find out more:
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This is how I feel. I’m not expecting a raft of shuttle boosts or crew/dilithium/honor, I just want a two- or three-paragraph post about what the bug was, why they didn’t see it at first, a thank you to the people who put a lot of work in to prove the issue really existed, and a confirmation that it is fixed moving forward. I would take just that last item, too, if that was all that DB was willing to give us.
could you provide the shuttle skills and the crew loaded? 93% can happen by chance, it just *the act of creating suction with your mouth*, however it is hard to tell without seeing if those specific shuttles had a large swing in expected value from opposite loaded crew.
While I had the % over 90, I only failed one, so to me it seems accurate.
I also wonder why it seems that, if I have a failure, the shuttle ferrying the shared crew member seems to almost always be the one. And I always balance out my success chances between all four shuttles as much as possible, so varying percentages can't be the cause.
Any chance there were multiple bugs at play, and we're still left with one?
That's totally possible (if unlikely). The best way to show it is to collect the statistics.
For this event, I have all shuttles between 92-95% at 4k VP and haven't failed any. Two seats are rev &.
I don't know what happened with that first wave where 2 failed and wish I had noted who I sent so I could see if there were any rev & crew.
TL;DR I cannot confirm that the And has been fixed with my limited experiance, but I am planning as if it hasn't.
For me, proving the AND issue in the first place was way beyond what we should be expected to do (especially since many of us had been reporting something was amiss for a long time). And it’s been totally ignored aside from Shan saying it would be looked into.
There’s no ‘win’ for DB here and the longer they leave the issue open, the deeper they dig their own grave.
13 of 14 missions succeeded.
I know its only a small number but I think they have fixed it.
I know the percents are all messed up and have been for a while, but not sure exactly how;)
or if they are fixed? never mind;)
Here's the original thread...
https://forum.disruptorbeam.com/stt/discussion/5097/edit-final-results-2nd-experiment-results-and-shuttles-are-absolutely-bugged/p1
Here's my summary back on Page 2 of this thread:
I’m still looking for confirmation of the bug that was proven by the community, details of a fix (or if it has already been implemented) and info on any form of individual or widespread compensation for the shuttle missions that failed/mission concluded that shouldn’t.
Cheers!
And that word compensation, is my guess as to why we won't hear boo.
I'm willing to sign anything you want stating I want no compensation just acknowledgement of the status of the bug and/or fix and I don't think I'm alone in that.