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REALITY CHECK- Campaigns- Let's talk dollars and cents.

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  • Good thought experiment. Imagining a dream card that I've never seen before (a new one, excellent artwork, a favorite character, great stats), I'm surprised to say I would spend, and I'd probably spend up to $25. But that's my limit. And that's for my absolute made-up dream card. Realistically, I can't imagine spending even $10 on a fave card.
  • (HGH)Apollo(HGH)Apollo ✭✭✭✭✭
    b8bsaeigrdcj.jpg

    After all those calculations do you go wildcard?
    7fbuqdi83imi.gif
    Let’s fly!
  • Frank?Frank? ✭✭✭✭✭
    Some folks will remember - there was a very very rare beta tested 2nd monthly card.

    It gave a premium 10 pull every day for 30 days.

    It was $100.

    So, let's not replicate that price point again. My gut tells me - assuming the campaign goes for 30 days - that the premium track unlock will run $20. The value for the things offered on that track vs. $20 will be worth it to those willing to pay. Throw in the $4 monthly and DB/TP has a handful of recurring customers on the hook for $25 a month vs. the previous $5. That's month over month revenue that you can count on as the entire gimmick is driven around player engagement to even succeed in the first place.

    Sure, most will balk at that. Lots of folks balk at $25 DYC. The various price points and offers in this game aren't for everyone, we've well established that. But I think DB/TP will find the greatest long-term success with the $20 price point.
  • ...But I think DB/TP will find the greatest long-term success with the $20 price point.

    I suspect it'll fall in that $10-30 range. I think anything less than $10 is probably under-valuing their own content, and more than $30 might be pricing themselves out of the market.

    It will be interesting to see where it falls.
    Captain Bubble Bobble
  • WaldoMagWaldoMag ✭✭✭✭✭
    Let's keep in mind you have to acquire the legendary for this to be worth more than $5. The current campaigns items are not worth $5. I assume that this is not going to be representative of what they actually offer. DB knows who logs in everyday. Also, of these how many complete their dailies. So I would assume the price of the offer will reflect player activity. That is, the higher DB prices this over $10 there are a large number of players that hit their dailies. The lower it is under $10 there are more players not completing their dailies.

    I just think since we do not know. We now have the opportunity throw numbers out and try to figure where DB is going to price this at.
  • AviTrekAviTrek ✭✭✭✭✭

    Actually, going back to pretty early on, I felt like there should be 3 different 30-day cards at the $4 price point, and the option of buying a single Super Duper 30-Day card that combined all 3 features and sold for $10.

    Over time, the 3 different feature types has evolved (I no longer want access to more chrons or merits if they cost real money)…. but I could easily get behind this:

    30-Day Card #1: 100 Dilithium per day for $4
    30-Day Card #2: 1 10x Event Pack per event (not horde-able) for $4
    30-Day Card #3: Premium Campaign Tier unlocked for $4
    Super Card: All of the Above for $10

    Interesting idea, but 100 DIL/day gives you 3000 DIL. So you can buy 4 event packs at 2600 DIL and save the final 400 DIL so every 2 months you get an extra pack.

    I don't know why someone would buy Card #2 over Card #1 unless you're thinking of people buying both 1 and 2.
  • Dirk GundersonDirk Gunderson ✭✭✭✭✭
    Paladin 27 wrote: »
    Everyone could just wait to see what the price is and then just buy the offer or not. Do we really need insanely long threads discussing it?

    If nothing else, this thread offers feedback to DB as to what their captive market will bear. It does happen from time to time (recall the backlash against the $25 legendary offer lodged in between a sea of $10 offers) and hopefully will happen here as well.
  • Cranky (SC) Cranky (SC) ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2019
    I definitely feel the higher prices (£9.99-£24.99 and upwards) would be a mistake that wouldn’t appeal to a large market of players, who would be willing to spend small amounts but more consistently.

    Had a thought this morning though - Could they start at £1 for a months premium track, increase it by £1 every month, analysing the take up and then drop off in interest that ultimately reduces the revenue? Maybe they’d need to use a gold citation as the reward rather than a random legendary that some will want more than others.

    There are probably flaws in that idea, so please pick apart.
  • AviTrekAviTrek ✭✭✭✭✭
    I definitely feel the higher prices (£9.99-£24.99 and upwards) would be a mistake that wouldn’t appeal to a large market of players, who would be willing to spend small amounts but more consistently.

    Had a thought this morning though - Could they start at £1 for a months premium track, increase it by £1 every month, analysing the take up and then drop off in interest that ultimately reduces the revenue? Maybe they’d need to use a gold citation as the reward rather than a random legendary that some will want more than others.

    There are probably flaws in that idea, so please pick apart.

    They can, and that's similar to what they try to do with different offers and event rewards. The problem is people associate the intro low price with the product and object to changes. If they started at $1/month and then the second month increased it to $2 people would scream about p2w and you'd have less people buying than if they launched at $2 and people viewed that as a cheap price.

    Just look at the repeat 5* threshold. It was a new feature, DB added it once it twice at a low amount before they increased threshold rewards. Then it was changed with the new threshold and there were endless threads and petitions that it was unfair and p2w and it needs to be lower. If DB had just added the reward at the higher amount from the start no one* would say "a repeat 5* belongs at 80k", they would just say "thanks for adding this new 5*"


    * Yes, some one will complain about everything, but the majority wouldn't have complained.
  • AviTrekAviTrek ✭✭✭✭✭
    Even better example: DB has offered a deal on shuttle tokens since they launched. This past event they didn't. Some one posts, "I guess DB doesn't want my money". Extra shuttles can always be purchased, but because people associate them with the sale price, they won't consider the normal price.
  • Frank?Frank? ✭✭✭✭✭
    @IrwinFletcher I was doing the $20 pricepoint based off the assumption that it's 30 days and not 7.
    Also, as it stands today with a 7 day campaign, I don't have to do squat. I don't have to give them an engagement metric and log in and perform dailies for a week to get Durango. I have to click one button and hand over 5000 DIL. Poof. She's mine.

    Imagine if that scales from a week to a month as well. You give any player the 'chance' at a Legendary after a month of work for $20. They have the chance to earn it, but they have to show up every day and not miss a beat to get it.

    Or they could just drop $200 right then and there and get it.

    Let's not pretend for a second if DB offers new 5* crew (unreleased) on that tract, there are more players than you think that will drop $200 right then and there to get it.

    This has many layers, like an onion. It's going to be meant to get as much out of its potential.
  • JeanLucKirkJeanLucKirk ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have to click one button and hand over 5000 DIL. Poof. She's mine.

    Also that DIL price goes down the more of the campain you already have completed. I know you said doing squat, but a declining DIL price for some activities is a further of many layers here. On the "beloved by many" :p tuesday packs you could spend much more DIL and still don´t get the card you really want. While here a lower DIL price point will give you exactly what you want...

  • YateballYateball ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why are threads like this not just posted in the stickied Campaigns bugs and feedback thread?
    It's annoying
  • Cranky (SC) Cranky (SC) ✭✭✭✭✭
    AviTrek wrote: »
    I definitely feel the higher prices (£9.99-£24.99 and upwards) would be a mistake that wouldn’t appeal to a large market of players, who would be willing to spend small amounts but more consistently.

    Had a thought this morning though - Could they start at £1 for a months premium track, increase it by £1 every month, analysing the take up and then drop off in interest that ultimately reduces the revenue? Maybe they’d need to use a gold citation as the reward rather than a random legendary that some will want more than others.

    There are probably flaws in that idea, so please pick apart.

    They can, and that's similar to what they try to do with different offers and event rewards. The problem is people associate the intro low price with the product and object to changes. If they started at $1/month and then the second month increased it to $2 people would scream about p2w and you'd have less people buying than if they launched at $2 and people viewed that as a cheap price.

    Just look at the repeat 5* threshold. It was a new feature, DB added it once it twice at a low amount before they increased threshold rewards. Then it was changed with the new threshold and there were endless threads and petitions that it was unfair and p2w and it needs to be lower. If DB had just added the reward at the higher amount from the start no one* would say "a repeat 5* belongs at 80k", they would just say "thanks for adding this new 5*"


    * Yes, some one will complain about everything, but the majority wouldn't have complained.

    Good point, well explained.
  • Cranky (SC) Cranky (SC) ✭✭✭✭✭
    @IrwinFletcher I was doing the $20 pricepoint based off the assumption that it's 30 days and not 7.
    Also, as it stands today with a 7 day campaign, I don't have to do squat. I don't have to give them an engagement metric and log in and perform dailies for a week to get Durango. I have to click one button and hand over 5000 DIL. Poof. She's mine.

    Imagine if that scales from a week to a month as well. You give any player the 'chance' at a Legendary after a month of work for $20. They have the chance to earn it, but they have to show up every day and not miss a beat to get it.

    Or they could just drop $200 right then and there and get it.

    Let's not pretend for a second if DB offers new 5* crew (unreleased) on that tract, there are more players than you think that will drop $200 right then and there to get it.

    This has many layers, like an onion. It's going to be meant to get as much out of its potential.

    It sounds like maybe the game needs a new premium monthly card that would let you pay $200 to get a new 5*.

    But my feeling is that the campaigns appear to be a means to get the huge middle field reinvigorated. Those that might and have before spent on things like a monthly card, or occasional 10 for 10 offer but have cut back because there’s nothing to do or get now.

    There are lots of players like me that have no crew left to FE. We can sub-1500 every event and have a ton of legendaries sat at 1/5 or 2/5*. We may be more willing to grind out a high rank in an event, rather than buy it. We may be less likely to use dil on tiers.

    Only DB know how many players would lay down £200 to insta buy a new gold vs revenue from thousands more smaller players spending £4. The ratio doesn’t even matter, but there is definitely a gap they could fill here. there’s room for a £200 whale card too, I just don’t feel this is the opportunity.
  • YateballYateball ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yateball wrote: »
    Why are threads like this not just posted in the stickied Campaigns bugs and feedback thread?
    It's annoying

    I’m in two minds which thread to use. I don’t want to derail the main feedback thread with detailed debates and ideas of the pricing and risk distracting from any bug reports or general input. However, I do want DB to pick up our thoughts on pricing, so I’ve been offering a summary in that thread too.

    I just think it separates people's thoughts too much, there's going to be stuff in the other threads that doesn't make it into basically "the one" that DB is going to be actively skimming. In the stickied thread there's more admin responses than the rest of the forums combined... I just want to be able to go to the one official thread and read what I need to know about it without other scattered threads

    Maybe it's just me, I dunno
  • Paladin 27 wrote: »
    Everyone could just wait to see what the price is and then just buy the offer or not. Do we really need insanely long threads discussing it?

    I think this discussion could be very valuable since DB has not finalized the price point and may appreciate input depending on their intentions/goals. It sure seemed like forum feedback (and probably also purchasing results) reduced those occasional legendary crew sales from $25 to $10. I'm sure they have a desire for this new revenue stream to be successful.
  • Dirk GundersonDirk Gunderson ✭✭✭✭✭
    @IrwinFletcher I was doing the $20 pricepoint based off the assumption that it's 30 days and not 7.
    Also, as it stands today with a 7 day campaign, I don't have to do squat. I don't have to give them an engagement metric and log in and perform dailies for a week to get Durango. I have to click one button and hand over 5000 DIL. Poof. She's mine.

    Imagine if that scales from a week to a month as well. You give any player the 'chance' at a Legendary after a month of work for $20. They have the chance to earn it, but they have to show up every day and not miss a beat to get it.

    Or they could just drop $200 right then and there and get it.

    Let's not pretend for a second if DB offers new 5* crew (unreleased) on that tract, there are more players than you think that will drop $200 right then and there to get it.

    This has many layers, like an onion. It's going to be meant to get as much out of its potential.

    Well, $200 in dil plus whatever the buy-in is for unlocking the premium track. Then again, anyone looking to drop that kind of cash probably isn’t going to quibble over an extra $20 or probably even $50.

    This also got me to thinking about how the dil cost for unlocking tiers works out. It occurs to me that the dil cost will be the same whether or not you have unlocked the premium reward track.

    Example: I get sick or go on vacation but really need the 4* crew to finish someone off. I drop dil to make up for missed days before the campaign ends and win my 4* crew. I then decide that a single star of the offered 5* would be okay after all and plop down $X to unlock.

    If the dil cost is different for each track, to account for the lower value of the rewards, DB is going to get fleeced unless they go back on the statement that the same tier is cleared in both tracks even if you unlock the premium track at a later date - nobody in their right mind would buy premium and then pay dil to open up all the reward tiers. But if the cost is the same, then you're way overpaying (Faction store levels of overpaying) to unlock less valuable rewards.

    The people who can’t afford or don’t want to pay for the premium track are not likely to want to drop 5,000 dil on a single star of a 4* crew. And for most people, asking for $X and dil for a late unlock of the premium rewards would not be taken very well.
  • ChaoticDNA wrote: »
    Raise the monthly card to 9.99 usd and include the premium campaign track for 30 days.

    That is my hot take as a marketing guy with only cursory data available to me. I reserve the right to be horribly wrong :)

    I like this idea and suggest you could have two monthly card types, ie standard which we have now and premium which covers campaigns as well.

    This. So much this.
  • Navarch Navarch ✭✭✭✭✭
    For $10/every 2 weeks, I’d probably be a spender. One thing I’d recommend is to tailor the offer to each player. If the legendary is one that I already have immortalized, I’m not likely to spend at all.
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