Truth be told, while I do enjoy Discovery, I can also empathize with the sentiment that it doesn't always feel terribly Trek-like. Which is not to say that I do not have hopes that it will continue to evolve, and that they'll find a much closer affinity with what I personally want to see from a Star Trek series.
A season review in one of the print mags I read earlier phrased it quite well really:
Discovery is fun and can have traces of Star Trek. Not more, not less.
For the most part the lack of a unique identity was criticised. That has reasons of course. Like the ever changing showrunners. But I sign that. That it started as a prequel and is now basically a sequel is the best example really.
But many Star Trek series needed time and seasons to find their footing. Imho the next season will be the break or make one. Now they don´t need to fit everything into what came before. But can create their own canon. Hopefully it will be satisfying for all who watch and enjoy the show.
Anyone who hates on any of the Treks needs to watch an episode of Love Island / something Kardashian / 95% of all the nonsense on television today and remember we're actually very lucky to have Treks of any kind.
I've seen JJ/Discovery fans who think anything Trek that was filmed before 2009 is garbage, so swings and roundabouts. One side's about as loud and obnoxious as the other. So you hate the new stuff? So what? The older stuff is still there, it hasn't disappeared into the ether. So you love the new stuff? Why does it matter what the old fans think? You have a show all of your own. Neither side has to interact. Old fans, just pretend the new stuff doesn't exist. New fans, just pretend the old stuff doesn't exist.
Don't see why people can't just like what they like, and leave others to like what they like.
Level 99. Latest Immortal (957): Chancellor Gowron - October 2023.
Kudos for showcasing some of the Black women of Trek, DB! Honored Owosekun and Commander Uhura (in one of her coolest moments, no less!) in the Featured Crew, and Dr. Pollard in the rank table, is pretty neat. I love "Yesteryear" and am thrilled to see it acknowledged and celebrated, but I gotta admit, I did not see Aleek-Om coming. At all. Very fun!
I can't think of any obvious 2* or 3* crew for this one, so maybe some newcomers are in store?
Thanks for hating Discovery and hating those who hate on Discovery. Please keep it going while I skirmish so I don't miss anything relevant to the event.
Kudos for showcasing some of the Black women of Trek, DB! Honored Owosekun and Commander Uhura (in one of her coolest moments, no less!) in the Featured Crew, and Dr. Pollard in the rank table, is pretty neat. I love "Yesteryear" and am thrilled to see it acknowledged and celebrated, but I gotta admit, I did not see Aleek-Om coming. At all. Very fun!
I can't think of any obvious 2* or 3* crew for this one, so maybe some newcomers are in store?
Thank you, your post made me realize I had totally confused him with Tchar from "The Jihad." Much appreciated clarity!
@Data1001 that is the perfect post. I was meh on Disco season one and enjoyed season two much more. It felt more like Trek. Saru is great and I’ll admit to a bit of a man crush on Anson Mount as Pike. In my opinion the whole premise of season one was a mistake and the revolving door of people working on the show really hurt it.
That said, other than parts of seasons 4-7, my least favorite Trek is Voyager. To me it was plodding and when it was bad, it was really bad. It’s just my opinion though (I’m an expert on my own opinion) and I still have fun collecting the cards and will go for top 1,500 when one suits my crew needs.
I do agree that the incessant posting of “I hate Discovery”’every tine someone mentions it does get old, as I’m sure if every time someone mentioned Voyager I brought up that I don’t like it or if Data did the same when DS9 was mentioned.
Speaking of plodding, I think this post has become TLDR. 🖖🏻
Yeah, agreed @gobolts07 . I started taking steps away from the fandom a while ago because the fights between the pro and anti Bad Robot crowds were getting ugly and tiresome. Sure it's nice to share your enthusiasm of things with other people, but the other side of that coin seems to be people 24/7 shouting and swearing at each other, both sides with a massively cocksure sense of their own superiority, and that's a lifestyle I can do without.
I didn't care much for Enterprise, at best it was a meh to average show for me. But I don't waste my time going around slagging off everyone who loved that show each and every time its name appears on the internet. I just leave its fans to it, tastes are subjective after all. Much the same with Discovery. It's not the worst show in the world, but I get the same feeling of meh-ness I got from Enterprise. Feels like Trek had creatively burned itself out by about 99/00. Just my opinion of course.
And don't worry about the length of your post. Three paragraphs is hardly TLDR.
Level 99. Latest Immortal (957): Chancellor Gowron - October 2023.
It is going to be fun around here if the Quentin Tarantino Star Trek movie ever gets made...
As long as it has Sammy J you know it is gonna be awesome!!! Plus as a plot point maybe they visit a snake planet and a whole bunch of snakes get on the plane....errr...ship.
I didn't care much for Enterprise, at best it was a meh to average show for me. But I don't waste my time going around slagging off everyone who loved that show each and every time its name appears on the internet. I just leave its fans to it, tastes are subjective after all.
For which we Enterprise fans thank you.
Also, I share your sentiment. What others do or don't like really doesn't affect me.
I didn't care much for Enterprise, at best it was a meh to average show for me. But I don't waste my time going around slagging off everyone who loved that show each and every time its name appears on the internet. I just leave its fans to it, tastes are subjective after all.
For which we Enterprise fans thank you.
Also, I share your sentiment. What others do or don't like really doesn't affect me.
I didn't care much for Enterprise, at best it was a meh to average show for me. But I don't waste my time going around slagging off everyone who loved that show each and every time its name appears on the internet. I just leave its fans to it, tastes are subjective after all.
For which we Enterprise fans thank you.
Also, I share your sentiment. What others do or don't like really doesn't affect me.
We Enterprise fans have to stick together!
Indeed we do! 🖖🏻
"In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
I didn't care much for Enterprise, at best it was a meh to average show for me. But I don't waste my time going around slagging off everyone who loved that show each and every time its name appears on the internet. I just leave its fans to it, tastes are subjective after all.
For which we Enterprise fans thank you.
Also, I share your sentiment. What others do or don't like really doesn't affect me.
We Enterprise fans have to stick together!
I like Enterprise too. Too bad it got cancelled right when it was getting good. Don’t even get me started on them killing off Trip...
I didn't care much for Enterprise, at best it was a meh to average show for me. But I don't waste my time going around slagging off everyone who loved that show each and every time its name appears on the internet. I just leave its fans to it, tastes are subjective after all.
For which we Enterprise fans thank you.
Also, I share your sentiment. What others do or don't like really doesn't affect me.
We Enterprise fans have to stick together!
I like Enterprise too. Too bad it got cancelled right when it was getting good. Don’t even get me started on them killing off Trip...
For some reason the books were allowed to ignore that. Thankfully.
I didn't care much for Enterprise, at best it was a meh to average show for me. But I don't waste my time going around slagging off everyone who loved that show each and every time its name appears on the internet. I just leave its fans to it, tastes are subjective after all.
For which we Enterprise fans thank you.
Also, I share your sentiment. What others do or don't like really doesn't affect me.
We Enterprise fans have to stick together!
I like Enterprise too. Too bad it got cancelled right when it was getting good. Don’t even get me started on them killing off Trip...
I feel like they cut the Mirror arc short because they were cancelling, they had a certain amount of episodes left, and they had a deal with Peter Weller which they HAD to do the terra prime arc. It’s a shame cuz I’d really like to know how the mirror arc ended
Worth noting is that they've largely gotten away from tying the 2* or 3* to events as directly as they used to, so there's no reason it won't end up being Telek R'Mor and Ambassador Fox. I'd be pleased with a new 2* or 3* Uhura, though! Maybe Command Uniform Uhura from "Where No Man Has Gone Before", or Slumber Party Uhura from TMP? I'd also be cool with a 2* Mr. Adventure.
Enterprise was probably my least favorite trek series and I stopped watching it when it was on the air. But I am really glad I watched it later because it had some amazing things and great moments. Shran was a phenomenal character and in my opinion Jeffrey Combs' best. I loved the Xindi and liked the Enterprise going off alone into the Delphic Expanse to stop them. The mirror universe arc was great and unique in that it played out completely in the mirror universe without any prime universe interference. I liked the Romulan cloak drone ship and seeing the birth of the Federation. And of course Porthos was awesome!!! I understand some people do not like Discovery. Maybe they hate it even. It is not perfect just like no Trek series is. But I am hoping in time that they will try watching it or rewatching it and see some of what we Discovery lovers love about it. There are many cool things and characters in Discovery. I love the depth of the characters. I love Tilly and Saru. Burnham is an interesting character that I enjoy now though she bugged me to no end in the first two episodes. Sarek, Pike, Spock, and Number One were great additions and tied the series more to TOS and TNG. And of course the special effects are amazing! Every series has something to offer viewers even if it is not their favorite. I am hoping the Discovery haters will see that in time just as I came to see that about Enterprise.
The great thing about DIS coming up is it flags to me who else I need to block because of their unrelenting griping. So long chaps, enjoy your endless reruns.
Although I am a fan of DIS and IDIC, I have to say "enjoy your echo chamber". Blocking people who have differing opinions and being closed to their views leads to Brexit and Trump.
But I am hoping in time that they will try watching it or rewatching it and see some of what we Discovery lovers love about it. I love the depth of the characters. Burnham is an interesting character that I enjoy now though she bugged me to no end in the first two episodes. Sarek, Pike, Spock, and Number One were great additions and tied the series more to TOS and TNG.
I know you love Discovery much and I respect that. We all have different tastes after all. But when there is one thing I don´t see it is depth of the characters. Most of the bridge crew are zero flashed out so far. Everything centers around Burnham. The ultimate Mary Sue of everything who always has the right idea at the right time.
Anson Mount on the other hand was perfectly cast and well written. And as you said: It tied in nicely to the past, but so also took away much shine from the Discovery cast. Also and especially through the final moments of the last episode. Which somehow reminded me of "These are the Voyages" (aka a focus on the "wrong" crew). Many people are very hot for new adventures of Pike, not so much for more of Discovery.
And this "no one is allowed to mention the Discovery and her crew etc." to explain away canon contradicting stuff is simply bad writing. Let´s assume even if everyone in Starfleet would stick to it, what about the other species they met so far? Especially the Klingons. They wrote themselves into a corner with some decisions and opted for a lame way out of it.
Also as I said earlier in this thread in a way the show didn´t know clearly which kind of stories they wanted to tell exactly. Hence it started as a prequel and is now a sequel. I enjoyed some episodes and had fun watching Discovery. But there is much room for improvement yet. The coming season will decide the path for it imho.
The great thing about DIS coming up is it flags to me who else I need to block because of their unrelenting griping. So long chaps, enjoy your endless reruns.
Although I am a fan of DIS and IDIC, I have to say "enjoy your echo chamber". Blocking people who have differing opinions and being closed to their views leads to Brexit and Trump.
No, Russian propaganda, xenophobia, and fear mongering brought Brexit and Trump.
But I am hoping in time that they will try watching it or rewatching it and see some of what we Discovery lovers love about it. I love the depth of the characters. Burnham is an interesting character that I enjoy now though she bugged me to no end in the first two episodes. Sarek, Pike, Spock, and Number One were great additions and tied the series more to TOS and TNG.
I know you love Discovery much and I respect that. We all have different tastes after all. But when there is one thing I don´t see it is depth of the characters. Most of the bridge crew are zero flashed out so far. Everything centers around Burnham. The ultimate Mary Sue of everything who always has the right idea at the right time.
Anson Mount on the other hand was perfectly cast and well written. And as you said: It tied in nicely to the past, but so also took away much shine from the Discovery cast. Also and especially through the final moments of the last episode. Which somehow reminded me of "These are the Voyages" (aka a focus on the "wrong" crew). Many people are very hot for new adventures of Pike, not so much for more of Discovery.
And this "no one is allowed to mention the Discovery and her crew etc." to explain away canon contradicting stuff is simply bad writing. Let´s assume even if everyone in Starfleet would stick to it, what about the other species they met so far? Especially the Klingons. They wrote themselves into a corner with some decisions and opted for a lame way out of it.
Also as I said earlier in this thread in a way the show didn´t know clearly which kind of stories they wanted to tell exactly. Hence it started as a prequel and is now a sequel. I enjoyed some episodes and had fun watching Discovery. But there is much room for improvement yet. The coming season will decide the path for it imho.
I have a real problem with the term "Mary Sue." It reeks of sexism. When do you ever hear a male character dismissed and called "Mary Sue" or the male equivalent "Marty Stu?" Have you ever heard of any male character being called it ever? The male version is used so infrequently, if at all, that I had to google "male equivalent of Mary Sue" to even know what it was. Yet both Discovery's Burnham and Star Wars' Rey are both dismissed as Mary Sues. By dictionary.com "a Mary Sue is a term used to describe a fictional character, usually female, who is seen as too perfect and almost boring for lack of flaws." Almost every main character in every story, male and female, is someone who suceeds more often than they fail. The protagonist faces crisis after crisis and must overcome them. Nobody called Kirk a Marty Stu even though he did everything, was almost always right and often single-handedly beat the enemy computers with his "logic." Nobody called Picard a Marty Stu even though he was perfect in almost every regard and was almost always right. He would routinely go against his superior admirals and he would be proved right and the admiral's career would be over. Everyone on the Enterprise also idolized him and extolled his virtues numerous times to anyone that would listen. In DS9 Sisko was half god, literally a demigod. A commander that was put in charge of the most important station in the galaxy, made a religious figure to the local planet, led the fighting force against the Dominion, won, and single handedly beat the pah-wraiths. The Prophets even destroyed 1,000 Dominion ships thereby saving the Alpha Quadrant simply because Sisko asked them to. Nobody called him a Marty Stu. And Archer stopped the Suliban, stopped the Xindi threat, was given the katra of the most revered Vulcan philosopher and with it altered the whole vulcan society and single-handedly created the Federation and yet I have never heard him called Marty Stu either.
But I am hoping in time that they will try watching it or rewatching it and see some of what we Discovery lovers love about it. I love the depth of the characters. Burnham is an interesting character that I enjoy now though she bugged me to no end in the first two episodes. Sarek, Pike, Spock, and Number One were great additions and tied the series more to TOS and TNG.
I know you love Discovery much and I respect that. We all have different tastes after all. But when there is one thing I don´t see it is depth of the characters. Most of the bridge crew are zero flashed out so far. Everything centers around Burnham. The ultimate Mary Sue of everything who always has the right idea at the right time.
Anson Mount on the other hand was perfectly cast and well written. And as you said: It tied in nicely to the past, but so also took away much shine from the Discovery cast. Also and especially through the final moments of the last episode. Which somehow reminded me of "These are the Voyages" (aka a focus on the "wrong" crew). Many people are very hot for new adventures of Pike, not so much for more of Discovery.
And this "no one is allowed to mention the Discovery and her crew etc." to explain away canon contradicting stuff is simply bad writing. Let´s assume even if everyone in Starfleet would stick to it, what about the other species they met so far? Especially the Klingons. They wrote themselves into a corner with some decisions and opted for a lame way out of it.
Also as I said earlier in this thread in a way the show didn´t know clearly which kind of stories they wanted to tell exactly. Hence it started as a prequel and is now a sequel. I enjoyed some episodes and had fun watching Discovery. But there is much room for improvement yet. The coming season will decide the path for it imho.
I agree that it is a lame way to explain it, by saying r ethane is sworn to secrecy. That doesn’t fly. There would be records of it, and hundreds of years later it is still totally unknown? And count me in the camp of let’s now follow Pike, Number One, and Spock, i liked the Discovery crew but they are played out, especially if we are just going to be treated to more Burnham crying and all the sentiment
I have a real problem with the term "Mary Sue." It reeks of sexism.
At least from my side zero. It is a commonly used term for characters like Burnham and Rey as you said yourself. Also in serious zero sexistic magazines or used by women to describe other women. The term was even created by a woman btw. Also that word dismissed you use doesn´t quite fit. How could you dismiss someone who is near perfect Seems you have sensible sunday today...
The main point was that while you love Discovery I don´t see the depth of characters you spoke of. And that the show while enjoyable had quite a few problems. You didn´t touch on any of that, but only exploded about a term you didn´t like so no need to say more. When others like me respect your love of that show, you should also respect the opinion of others who find it ok, but not as brill as you do.
Regarding the OP, I am looking forward to adding another TAS character to my crew, as well as finishing & freezing my 3/4* Commander Uhura. 🖖🏻
There are 43 existing cards with the Innovator trait:
5 Assimilated La Forge
5 Augment Commander O'Brien
5 Captain La Forge
5 Dr. Richard Daystrom
5 Dr. Soong
5 Duelist Torres
5 Fennim
5 Interfaced Barclay
5 Interfaced La Forge
5 Leonardo da Vinci
5 Lt Commander La Forge
5 Mirror Zefram Cochrane
5 Phoenix Cochrane
5 Protomorphosis Barclay
5 Scientist Degra
5 Sphere-Builder Presage
4 Age of Sail La Forge
4 Alan-A-Dale
4 Commander Barclay 4 Dr. Carol Marcus
4 Dr. David Marcus
4 Dr. Tolian Soran
4 Gralik Durr
4 Herbert Rossoff
4 Hologram Barclay
4 Icheb
4 Kurak
4 Kurros
4 Lewis Zimmerman
4 Mirror Geordi La Forge
4 Rogue Harry Kim
4 Tactical Michael Burnham
4 Tash
3 Chief Engineer La Forge
3 Chief Engineer Torres
3 Commander Scott
3 Donik 3 Dr. Carol Marcus
3 Dr. Reyga
3 Duelist Barclay
3 Ensign Robin Lefler
3 Gilora Rejal
2 Geordi La Forge
2 Injured Torres
EDIT: Corrected Dr. Carol Marcus’s rarity, per below. Thanks, @Proont ! 🖖🏻
"In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
I have a real problem with the term "Mary Sue." It reeks of sexism.
At least from my side zero. It is a commonly used term for characters like Burnham and Rey as you said yourself. Also in serious zero sexistic magazines or used by women to describe other women. The term was even created by a woman btw. Also that word dismissed you use doesn´t quite fit. How could you dismiss someone who is near perfect Seems you have sensible sunday today...
The main point was that while you love Discovery I don´t see the depth of characters you spoke of. And that the show while enjoyable had quite a few problems. You didn´t touch on any of that, but only exploded about a term you didn´t like so no need to say more. When others like me respect your love of that show, you should also respect the opinion of others who find it ok, but not as brill as you do.
Yea, no, it's definitely sexist. Even if you're right and it wasn't originally meant that way, it's definitely become a term favored by incels and the anti-feminist alt-right. It's not the term itself, it's the intent. And that intent is clearly to minimize the achievements of women. You know how I know that? Because there's no derogatory term for a man that's good at multiple things. It's sure as shootin' not used by anyone trying to applaud and glorify the women.
Regarding the OP, I am looking forward to adding another TAS character to my crew, as well as finishing & freezing my 3/4* Commander Uhura. 🖖🏻
There are 43 existing cards with the Innovator trait:
5 Assimilated La Forge
5 Augment Commander O'Brien
5 Captain La Forge
5 Dr. Richard Daystrom
5 Dr. Soong
5 Duelist Torres
5 Fennim
5 Interfaced Barclay
5 Interfaced La Forge
5 Leonardo da Vinci
5 Lt Commander La Forge
5 Mirror Zefram Cochrane
5 Phoenix Cochrane
5 Protomorphosis Barclay
5 Scientist Degra
5 Sphere-Builder Presage
4 Age of Sail La Forge
4 Alan-A-Dale
4 Commander Barclay 4 Dr. Carol Marcus
4 Dr. David Marcus
4 Dr. Tolian Soran
4 Gralik Durr
4 Herbert Rossoff
4 Hologram Barclay
4 Icheb
4 Kurak
4 Kurros
4 Lewis Zimmerman
4 Mirror Geordi La Forge
4 Rogue Harry Kim
4 Tactical Michael Burnham
4 Tash
3 Chief Engineer La Forge
3 Chief Engineer Torres
3 Commander Scott
3 Donik
3 Dr. Reyga
3 Duelist Barclay
3 Ensign Robin Lefler
3 Gilora Rejal
2 Geordi La Forge
2 Injured Torres
Dr. Carol Marcus is a 3*. Thanks for the list. It looks like I have a few frozen that I might need to thaw.
Comments
A season review in one of the print mags I read earlier phrased it quite well really:
Discovery is fun and can have traces of Star Trek. Not more, not less.
For the most part the lack of a unique identity was criticised. That has reasons of course. Like the ever changing showrunners. But I sign that. That it started as a prequel and is now basically a sequel is the best example really.
But many Star Trek series needed time and seasons to find their footing. Imho the next season will be the break or make one. Now they don´t need to fit everything into what came before. But can create their own canon. Hopefully it will be satisfying for all who watch and enjoy the show.
P.S.: Great posting in every sense.
Don't see why people can't just like what they like, and leave others to like what they like.
I can't think of any obvious 2* or 3* crew for this one, so maybe some newcomers are in store?
Thank you, your post made me realize I had totally confused him with Tchar from "The Jihad." Much appreciated clarity!
That said, other than parts of seasons 4-7, my least favorite Trek is Voyager. To me it was plodding and when it was bad, it was really bad. It’s just my opinion though (I’m an expert on my own opinion) and I still have fun collecting the cards and will go for top 1,500 when one suits my crew needs.
I do agree that the incessant posting of “I hate Discovery”’every tine someone mentions it does get old, as I’m sure if every time someone mentioned Voyager I brought up that I don’t like it or if Data did the same when DS9 was mentioned.
Speaking of plodding, I think this post has become TLDR. 🖖🏻
She was first introduced when she was trying to explain to Saru what was happening to Tyler from what I remember.
I didn't care much for Enterprise, at best it was a meh to average show for me. But I don't waste my time going around slagging off everyone who loved that show each and every time its name appears on the internet. I just leave its fans to it, tastes are subjective after all. Much the same with Discovery. It's not the worst show in the world, but I get the same feeling of meh-ness I got from Enterprise. Feels like Trek had creatively burned itself out by about 99/00. Just my opinion of course.
And don't worry about the length of your post. Three paragraphs is hardly TLDR.
As long as it has Sammy J you know it is gonna be awesome!!! Plus as a plot point maybe they visit a snake planet and a whole bunch of snakes get on the plane....errr...ship.
For which we Enterprise fans thank you.
Also, I share your sentiment. What others do or don't like really doesn't affect me.
We Enterprise fans have to stick together!
Indeed we do! 🖖🏻
I like Enterprise too. Too bad it got cancelled right when it was getting good. Don’t even get me started on them killing off Trip...
For some reason the books were allowed to ignore that. Thankfully.
how about a 2* or 3* TAS Swear Trek Uhura?
I feel like they cut the Mirror arc short because they were cancelling, they had a certain amount of episodes left, and they had a deal with Peter Weller which they HAD to do the terra prime arc. It’s a shame cuz I’d really like to know how the mirror arc ended
Although I am a fan of DIS and IDIC, I have to say "enjoy your echo chamber". Blocking people who have differing opinions and being closed to their views leads to Brexit and Trump.
I know you love Discovery much and I respect that. We all have different tastes after all. But when there is one thing I don´t see it is depth of the characters. Most of the bridge crew are zero flashed out so far. Everything centers around Burnham. The ultimate Mary Sue of everything who always has the right idea at the right time.
Anson Mount on the other hand was perfectly cast and well written. And as you said: It tied in nicely to the past, but so also took away much shine from the Discovery cast. Also and especially through the final moments of the last episode. Which somehow reminded me of "These are the Voyages" (aka a focus on the "wrong" crew). Many people are very hot for new adventures of Pike, not so much for more of Discovery.
And this "no one is allowed to mention the Discovery and her crew etc." to explain away canon contradicting stuff is simply bad writing. Let´s assume even if everyone in Starfleet would stick to it, what about the other species they met so far? Especially the Klingons. They wrote themselves into a corner with some decisions and opted for a lame way out of it.
Also as I said earlier in this thread in a way the show didn´t know clearly which kind of stories they wanted to tell exactly. Hence it started as a prequel and is now a sequel. I enjoyed some episodes and had fun watching Discovery. But there is much room for improvement yet. The coming season will decide the path for it imho.
No, Russian propaganda, xenophobia, and fear mongering brought Brexit and Trump.
I have a real problem with the term "Mary Sue." It reeks of sexism. When do you ever hear a male character dismissed and called "Mary Sue" or the male equivalent "Marty Stu?" Have you ever heard of any male character being called it ever? The male version is used so infrequently, if at all, that I had to google "male equivalent of Mary Sue" to even know what it was. Yet both Discovery's Burnham and Star Wars' Rey are both dismissed as Mary Sues. By dictionary.com "a Mary Sue is a term used to describe a fictional character, usually female, who is seen as too perfect and almost boring for lack of flaws." Almost every main character in every story, male and female, is someone who suceeds more often than they fail. The protagonist faces crisis after crisis and must overcome them. Nobody called Kirk a Marty Stu even though he did everything, was almost always right and often single-handedly beat the enemy computers with his "logic." Nobody called Picard a Marty Stu even though he was perfect in almost every regard and was almost always right. He would routinely go against his superior admirals and he would be proved right and the admiral's career would be over. Everyone on the Enterprise also idolized him and extolled his virtues numerous times to anyone that would listen. In DS9 Sisko was half god, literally a demigod. A commander that was put in charge of the most important station in the galaxy, made a religious figure to the local planet, led the fighting force against the Dominion, won, and single handedly beat the pah-wraiths. The Prophets even destroyed 1,000 Dominion ships thereby saving the Alpha Quadrant simply because Sisko asked them to. Nobody called him a Marty Stu. And Archer stopped the Suliban, stopped the Xindi threat, was given the katra of the most revered Vulcan philosopher and with it altered the whole vulcan society and single-handedly created the Federation and yet I have never heard him called Marty Stu either.
I agree that it is a lame way to explain it, by saying r ethane is sworn to secrecy. That doesn’t fly. There would be records of it, and hundreds of years later it is still totally unknown? And count me in the camp of let’s now follow Pike, Number One, and Spock, i liked the Discovery crew but they are played out, especially if we are just going to be treated to more Burnham crying and all the sentiment
At least from my side zero. It is a commonly used term for characters like Burnham and Rey as you said yourself. Also in serious zero sexistic magazines or used by women to describe other women. The term was even created by a woman btw. Also that word dismissed you use doesn´t quite fit. How could you dismiss someone who is near perfect
The main point was that while you love Discovery I don´t see the depth of characters you spoke of. And that the show while enjoyable had quite a few problems. You didn´t touch on any of that, but only exploded about a term you didn´t like so no need to say more. When others like me respect your love of that show, you should also respect the opinion of others who find it ok, but not as brill as you do.
There are 43 existing cards with the Innovator trait:
5 Assimilated La Forge
5 Augment Commander O'Brien
5 Captain La Forge
5 Dr. Richard Daystrom
5 Dr. Soong
5 Duelist Torres
5 Fennim
5 Interfaced Barclay
5 Interfaced La Forge
5 Leonardo da Vinci
5 Lt Commander La Forge
5 Mirror Zefram Cochrane
5 Phoenix Cochrane
5 Protomorphosis Barclay
5 Scientist Degra
5 Sphere-Builder Presage
4 Age of Sail La Forge
4 Alan-A-Dale
4 Commander Barclay
4 Dr. Carol Marcus
4 Dr. David Marcus
4 Dr. Tolian Soran
4 Gralik Durr
4 Herbert Rossoff
4 Hologram Barclay
4 Icheb
4 Kurak
4 Kurros
4 Lewis Zimmerman
4 Mirror Geordi La Forge
4 Rogue Harry Kim
4 Tactical Michael Burnham
4 Tash
3 Chief Engineer La Forge
3 Chief Engineer Torres
3 Commander Scott
3 Donik
3 Dr. Carol Marcus
3 Dr. Reyga
3 Duelist Barclay
3 Ensign Robin Lefler
3 Gilora Rejal
2 Geordi La Forge
2 Injured Torres
EDIT: Corrected Dr. Carol Marcus’s rarity, per below. Thanks, @Proont ! 🖖🏻
Yea, no, it's definitely sexist. Even if you're right and it wasn't originally meant that way, it's definitely become a term favored by incels and the anti-feminist alt-right. It's not the term itself, it's the intent. And that intent is clearly to minimize the achievements of women. You know how I know that? Because there's no derogatory term for a man that's good at multiple things. It's sure as shootin' not used by anyone trying to applaud and glorify the women.
Dr. Carol Marcus is a 3*. Thanks for the list. It looks like I have a few frozen that I might need to thaw.