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New Art for Old Card!

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Comments

  • Dirk GundersonDirk Gunderson ✭✭✭✭✭
    But to be honest, what I was trying to say is that it's pointless to insult the original artist just because they didn't produce a masterpiece in 2016, as if anyone here could produce something better (I dare you all to try, you can easily google a pic of Blood Oath Jadzia as a reference and then share your art with us on the forums :p ).

    Hang on now...although I agree Banjo was a bit harsh, I don’t think it’s any wiser to say that people don’t have the right to evaluate a piece of art if they can’t replicate it. This isn’t like evaluating the quality of a weld or a cabinet or an automobile, a critical concept regarding art is that not everyone responds to a piece of art, whether a drawing, a melody, or a sculpture, in the same way.
  • Can we get an update to Mirror “Werewolf” T’Pol next? Maybe in the correct uniform to pose is based on?
  • But to be honest, what I was trying to say is that it's pointless to insult the original artist just because they didn't produce a masterpiece in 2016, as if anyone here could produce something better (I dare you all to try, you can easily google a pic of Blood Oath Jadzia as a reference and then share your art with us on the forums :p ).

    Hang on now...although I agree Banjo was a bit harsh, I don’t think it’s any wiser to say that people don’t have the right to evaluate a piece of art if they can’t replicate it. This isn’t like evaluating the quality of a weld or a cabinet or an automobile, a critical concept regarding art is that not everyone responds to a piece of art, whether a drawing, a melody, or a sculpture, in the same way.

    I didn't say you can't dislike it. Almost everyone here disliked it. But saying
    Banjo1012 wrote: »
    Whoever made that first Dax has no business calling themselves a graphic artist

    is a bit different from "I don't like this" or "I think the quality is bad".

    But this is not my mother tongue nor my culture, so maybe that's why I'm the only one perceiving it that way.
  • JeanLucKirkJeanLucKirk ✭✭✭✭✭
    I wished Shan would close this thread. This is so sad. They give us something beautiful and instead of just appreciating it we rip the former version apart. Please stop it!

    If people would not have slashed the old version in the past we would not have the, as you rightfully say, beautiful one we have now. Showing liking and also dislike helps to improve a product...
  • But to be honest, what I was trying to say is that it's pointless to insult the original artist just because they didn't produce a masterpiece in 2016, as if anyone here could produce something better (I dare you all to try, you can easily google a pic of Blood Oath Jadzia as a reference and then share your art with us on the forums :p ).

    Hang on now...although I agree Banjo was a bit harsh, I don’t think it’s any wiser to say that people don’t have the right to evaluate a piece of art if they can’t replicate it. This isn’t like evaluating the quality of a weld or a cabinet or an automobile, a critical concept regarding art is that not everyone responds to a piece of art, whether a drawing, a melody, or a sculpture, in the same way.

    I didn't say you can't dislike it. Almost everyone here disliked it. But saying
    Banjo1012 wrote: »
    Whoever made that first Dax has no business calling themselves a graphic artist

    is a bit different from "I don't like this" or "I think the quality is bad".

    But this is not my mother tongue nor my culture, so maybe that's why I'm the only one perceiving it that way.

    my comment supporting your opinion had 13 likes. you are not alone in your perception.
  • marschallinmarschallin ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2020
    This is the artwork hall of shame as far as I'm concerned....

    8td4ahvtyaok.png

    You’re a bit more harsh than I am. Some of those aren’t my favorites but I’m okay with them. Do I wish they were better? Yeah, but they’re not so bad I’m like, “Ow, my eyes!”

    The only one out of those that I think needs to be fixed ASAP is the last one. The scale of his head is absurdly off and his pose is done like the artist never studied human anatomy.

    He is one card that will never be on my roster until/unless he’s fixed.

    The other is Mirror T’Pol who isn’t so obviously wrong, but as a previous poster alluded to, she looks like a werewolf and is just hideously ugly. I airlocked her the one time I got her (and I *never* airlock legendary crew.)
  • MiT SanoaMiT Sanoa ✭✭✭✭✭
    I wished Shan would close this thread. This is so sad. They give us something beautiful and instead of just appreciating it we rip the former version apart. Please stop it!

    If people would not have slashed the old version in the past we would not have the, as you rightfully say, beautiful one we have now. Showing liking and also dislike helps to improve a product...

    This discussion unfortunately is not based on expressing subjective liking and disliking but qualifying good vs bad art. There is no such thing like bad art though, just meeting someone's taste or not. There is nothing objective about taste. Just because obviously the majority likes the new art more does not mean that the old one was "bad". That would be like concluding that Trump is objectively a good president just because the majority voted for him.
    Wir, die Mirror Tribbles [MiT] haben freie Plätze zu vergeben. Kein Zwang und kein Stress, dafür aber Spaß, Discord und eine nette, hilfsbereite Gemeinschaft, incl. voll ausgebauter Starbase und täglich 700 ISM.
  • Data1001Data1001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is the artwork hall of shame as far as I'm concerned....

    8td4ahvtyaok.png

    You’re a bit more harsh than I am. Some of those aren’t my favorites but I’m okay with them. Do I wish they were better? Yeah, but they’re not so bad I’m like, “Ow, my eyes!”

    The only one out of those that I think needs to be fixed ASAP is the last one. The scale of his head is absurdly off and his pose is done like the artist never studied human anatomy.

    I don't mind that Worf. I'd sub Klingon O'Brien in for him.

    And to the comment above about this thread being harsh: there seems to be quite a bit of elation about the change, so I don't feel like it's an overly-negative thread. It's more that since DB has "opened the floodgates", so to speak, we are hoping they'll continue that with other cards. Granted, there are some who have chimed in with a "what took so long", but that's to be expected — especially with a character that a lot of us here, including myself, quite like.


    Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
    ~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
  • marschallinmarschallin ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2020
    I wished Shan would close this thread. This is so sad. They give us something beautiful and instead of just appreciating it we rip the former version apart. Please stop it!

    If people would not have slashed the old version in the past we would not have the, as you rightfully say, beautiful one we have now. Showing liking and also dislike helps to improve a product...

    This discussion unfortunately is not based on expressing subjective liking and disliking but qualifying good vs bad art. There is no such thing like bad art though, just meeting someone's taste or not. There is nothing objective about taste. Just because obviously the majority likes the new art more does not mean that the old one was "bad". That would be like concluding that Trump is objectively a good president just because the majority voted for him.

    I’ll agree and disagree. Sure, one person might like Rembrandt and another Vermeer, one Titian and one Rubens. We can all agree they’re good, technically proficient artists and to prefer one to another is a matter of taste.

    However, there is bad art, or should I say, bad technique. If you’re attempting to do a realistic human body, and yet your art looks inhuman and wrong, that’s bad. If you’re attempting to use a harmonious, complimentary color palette, but instead end up using a jarring palette that inspires unease in the viewer, you have failed. (It’s been scientifically proven that humans have emotional responses to colors that can be broadly predicted.)

    So about art done well, I can say there should be no arguing/accounting for taste. About art that is done poorly, however, due to technical faults, one can-and perhaps should!-criticize. This isn’t an amateur doing this for free. This is presumably a paid professional. Saying an artist is a terrible person is out of bounds. Saying a paid artist did a terrible job because their artwork of a human body was out of proportion? Should be totally fair game, as it is fact that can be proven. Maybe it’s not “nice” to say that, but when a professional is paid for his/her work, and their product is submitted for public consumption, criticisms about their work should be fair game.
  • FlemmingFlemming ✭✭✭✭✭
    The Mirror Jadzia art looks like Cobie Smulder

    You don't say? :)
    qf8pdyjz7hoe.png
    *Hat Tip to @Data1001 *
    Intentionally Left Blank
  • *Nomad* {PoF}*Nomad* {PoF} ✭✭✭✭✭
    We all know Tomalak is bad...but this is disturbing and should be reworked or removed from the game....
    r995wh19hgd6.png
    Founding ADM - PoF family of fleets (POF, POF2 & POF3) - Dear TP: Non sequitur. Your facts are uncoordinated.
  • WebberoniWebberoni ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm surprised there's not more support for revamping the artwork for Mirror "Fox Mulder" Reed and Rura Penthe "Day After Tomorrow Dennis Quaid" Kirk. Those 2 cards look absolutely nothing like the actual character being portrayed, similar to Mirror Data.
  • MiT SanoaMiT Sanoa ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2020
    I wished Shan would close this thread. This is so sad. They give us something beautiful and instead of just appreciating it we rip the former version apart. Please stop it!

    If people would not have slashed the old version in the past we would not have the, as you rightfully say, beautiful one we have now. Showing liking and also dislike helps to improve a product...

    This discussion unfortunately is not based on expressing subjective liking and disliking but qualifying good vs bad art. There is no such thing like bad art though, just meeting someone's taste or not. There is nothing objective about taste. Just because obviously the majority likes the new art more does not mean that the old one was "bad". That would be like concluding that Trump is objectively a good president just because the majority voted for him.

    I’ll agree and disagree. Sure, one person might like Rembrandt and another Vermeer, one Titian and one Rubens. We can all agree they’re good, technically proficient artists and to prefer one to another is a matter of taste.

    However, there is bad art, or should I say, bad technique. If you’re attempting to do a realistic human body, and yet your art looks inhuman and wrong, that’s bad. If you’re attempting to use a harmonious, complimentary color palette, but instead end up using a jarring palette that inspires unease in the viewer, you have failed. (It’s been scientifically proven that humans have emotional responses to colors that can be broadly predicted.)

    So about art done well, I can say there should be no arguing/accounting for taste. About art that is done poorly, however, due to technical faults, one can-and perhaps should!-criticize. This isn’t an amateur doing this for free. This is presumably a paid professional. Saying an artist is a terrible person is out of bounds. Saying a paid artist did a terrible job because their artwork of a human body was out of proportion? Should be totally fair game, as it is fact that can be proven. Maybe it’s not “nice” to say that, but when a professional is paid for his/her work, and their product is submitted for public consumption, criticisms about their work should be fair game.

    Well, even all of this is some kind of art, and if there is only one person in the world who likes it - who are we to judge? Art is not only craftsmanship, it is more than that. Think Van Gogh (proportions) or Warhol (colors). I dislike both's work but I acknowledge the artistic expression.

    For me Jadzia was very comic styled which does not fancy me too much, but proportions and coloring were ok and fit the game's style of the time she is from. Actually I have not seen a single artwork in STT that would keep me from taking a card. Poor stats on the other hand... I have seen a lot, and no matter the potential awesomeness of their artwork I do not want them.

    Anyway... artists are human beings, and often they are more sensitive than others. Such harsh critisism as expressed here is - to me - insulting and unnecessary.
    Wir, die Mirror Tribbles [MiT] haben freie Plätze zu vergeben. Kein Zwang und kein Stress, dafür aber Spaß, Discord und eine nette, hilfsbereite Gemeinschaft, incl. voll ausgebauter Starbase und täglich 700 ISM.
  • WebberoniWebberoni ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2020
    I wished Shan would close this thread. This is so sad. They give us something beautiful and instead of just appreciating it we rip the former version apart. Please stop it!

    If people would not have slashed the old version in the past we would not have the, as you rightfully say, beautiful one we have now. Showing liking and also dislike helps to improve a product...

    This discussion unfortunately is not based on expressing subjective liking and disliking but qualifying good vs bad art. There is no such thing like bad art though, just meeting someone's taste or not. There is nothing objective about taste. Just because obviously the majority likes the new art more does not mean that the old one was "bad". That would be like concluding that Trump is objectively a good president just because the majority voted for him.

    I’ll agree and disagree. Sure, one person might like Rembrandt and another Vermeer, one Titian and one Rubens. We can all agree they’re good, technically proficient artists and to prefer one to another is a matter of taste.

    However, there is bad art, or should I say, bad technique. If you’re attempting to do a realistic human body, and yet your art looks inhuman and wrong, that’s bad. If you’re attempting to use a harmonious, complimentary color palette, but instead end up using a jarring palette that inspires unease in the viewer, you have failed. (It’s been scientifically proven that humans have emotional responses to colors that can be broadly predicted.)

    So about art done well, I can say there should be no arguing/accounting for taste. About art that is done poorly, however, due to technical faults, one can-and perhaps should!-criticize. This isn’t an amateur doing this for free. This is presumably a paid professional. Saying an artist is a terrible person is out of bounds. Saying a paid artist did a terrible job because their artwork of a human body was out of proportion? Should be totally fair game, as it is fact that can be proven. Maybe it’s not “nice” to say that, but when a professional is paid for his/her work, and their product is submitted for public consumption, criticisms about their work should be fair game.

    Well, even all of this is some kind of art, and if there is only one person in the world who likes it - who are we to judge? Art is not only craftsmanship, it is more than that. Think Van Gogh (proportions) or Warhol (colors). I dislike both's work but I acknowledge the artistic expression.

    For me Jadzia was very comic styled which does not fancy me too much, but proportions and coloring were ok and fit the game's style of the time she is from. Actually I have not seen a single artwork in STT that would keep me from taking a card. Poor stats on the other hand... I have seen a lot, and no matter the potential awesomeness of their artwork I do not want them.

    Anyway... artists are human beings, and often they are more sensitive than others. Such harsh critisism as expressed here is - to me - insulting and unnecessary.

    This is different though, as the artwork being created isn't an original work of art, but rather a digital representation of a character from a tv show or movie. Much of the work looks great. Some characters are dreadful.

    Calling out poor quality reproduction (I hesitate to actually call this sort of graphic design work "art") is absolutely fair, since these forums are an opportunity to provide feedback. Awhile back the design work took a steep nosedive in quality, and the forums called DB on it. The issue was addressed and most design work since then has returned to pre-nosedive quality, to the point that some recent work is among the best the game has produced.
  • JeanLucKirkJeanLucKirk ✭✭✭✭✭
    Actually I have not seen a single artwork in STT that would keep me from taking a card. Poor stats on the other hand... I have seen a lot, and no matter the potential awesomeness of their artwork I do not want them.

    Some like you are put off by bad stats, some like me are put off by not fitting artwork etc. The way this game is and will probably stay no card will improve my game in a meaningful way anymore at this stage. So in case I want a card it is because it is a favourite character of mine and presented in a way which I like.

    That is the great thing about this game. We can play it according to our personal preferences.

  • 1. If I'm paying for art. I have the right to criticize it.
    2. New art for Jadzia is great
    3. Please Please do something about TOS Martok. He should not be missing his eye. Awful.
    4. Do something about the Enterprise D model. Its hideous.

    Thank you.
  • MiT SanoaMiT Sanoa ✭✭✭✭✭
    Webberoni wrote: »
    I wished Shan would close this thread. This is so sad. They give us something beautiful and instead of just appreciating it we rip the former version apart. Please stop it!

    If people would not have slashed the old version in the past we would not have the, as you rightfully say, beautiful one we have now. Showing liking and also dislike helps to improve a product...

    This discussion unfortunately is not based on expressing subjective liking and disliking but qualifying good vs bad art. There is no such thing like bad art though, just meeting someone's taste or not. There is nothing objective about taste. Just because obviously the majority likes the new art more does not mean that the old one was "bad". That would be like concluding that Trump is objectively a good president just because the majority voted for him.

    I’ll agree and disagree. Sure, one person might like Rembrandt and another Vermeer, one Titian and one Rubens. We can all agree they’re good, technically proficient artists and to prefer one to another is a matter of taste.

    However, there is bad art, or should I say, bad technique. If you’re attempting to do a realistic human body, and yet your art looks inhuman and wrong, that’s bad. If you’re attempting to use a harmonious, complimentary color palette, but instead end up using a jarring palette that inspires unease in the viewer, you have failed. (It’s been scientifically proven that humans have emotional responses to colors that can be broadly predicted.)

    So about art done well, I can say there should be no arguing/accounting for taste. About art that is done poorly, however, due to technical faults, one can-and perhaps should!-criticize. This isn’t an amateur doing this for free. This is presumably a paid professional. Saying an artist is a terrible person is out of bounds. Saying a paid artist did a terrible job because their artwork of a human body was out of proportion? Should be totally fair game, as it is fact that can be proven. Maybe it’s not “nice” to say that, but when a professional is paid for his/her work, and their product is submitted for public consumption, criticisms about their work should be fair game.

    Well, even all of this is some kind of art, and if there is only one person in the world who likes it - who are we to judge? Art is not only craftsmanship, it is more than that. Think Van Gogh (proportions) or Warhol (colors). I dislike both's work but I acknowledge the artistic expression.

    For me Jadzia was very comic styled which does not fancy me too much, but proportions and coloring were ok and fit the game's style of the time she is from. Actually I have not seen a single artwork in STT that would keep me from taking a card. Poor stats on the other hand... I have seen a lot, and no matter the potential awesomeness of their artwork I do not want them.

    Anyway... artists are human beings, and often they are more sensitive than others. Such harsh critisism as expressed here is - to me - insulting and unnecessary.

    This is different though, as the artwork being created isn't an original work of art, but rather a digital representation of a character from a tv show or movie. Much of the work looks great. Some characters are dreadful.

    Calling out poor quality reproduction (I hesitate to actually call this sort of graphic design work "art") is absolutely fair, since these forums are an opportunity to provide feedback. Awhile back the design work took a steep nosedive in quality, and the forums called DB on it. The issue was addressed and most design work since then has returned to pre-nosedive quality, to the point that some recent work is among the best the game has produced.

    Unlike Warhol's Marilyn? I do not see the difference.
    Wir, die Mirror Tribbles [MiT] haben freie Plätze zu vergeben. Kein Zwang und kein Stress, dafür aber Spaß, Discord und eine nette, hilfsbereite Gemeinschaft, incl. voll ausgebauter Starbase und täglich 700 ISM.
  • Banjo1012Banjo1012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you want to criticize the artwork, then stick to the facts about what you dislike and leave out the ineffective, vague comments or inane comparisons. Being constructive with criticism isn’t difficult. I personally think some of the artwork is too “cartoonish” and appears to have been hastily drawn. That is certainly more effective than saying it is the “worst”, or appears to have been drawn by someone age challenged, or that whomever drew it has no business being an artist. You can dislike something and still practice common decency.... a lesson I have learned on these Forums. ;)

    Age challenged. That’s a whole new level of social sensitivity

  • CuttysarkCuttysark ✭✭✭
    edited February 2020
    This is all very amusing ... "age challenged"? ... that's too 'new age' for an old fart like me! LOL

    But, I have to say, in general, that the 'blue light specials' are poor art as far as I'm concerned and drive me crazy! (yes, a short drive, I know) Idrin is especially hideous! ;)

    Different strokes for different folk as they say. And one does have to admit some of the 'blue lights' are much better than others. And the chances of DB trashing them and starting anew with even a couple has about same odds as me getting the #1 reward in the top line at the dabo wheel ... ;)

    Now, if it was up to me I would suggest that they trash all the card artwork. Let's go with a new, trendy, yet respected form of art! Let's see.... hmmm ... no, not Sir Peter Paul Rubens unfortunately ...

    ... I know! That Japanese style stuff with the bulgy eyes and weird faces. Anime??? Perfect for Klingons! What's not to love? :)
    Remember: it's just a game, not a matter of life and death!

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  • DavideBooksDavideBooks ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you want to criticize the artwork, then stick to the facts about what you dislike and leave out the ineffective, vague comments or inane comparisons. Being constructive with criticism isn’t difficult. I personally think some of the artwork is too “cartoonish” and appears to have been hastily drawn. That is certainly more effective than saying it is the “worst”, or appears to have been drawn by someone age challenged, or that whomever drew it has no business being an artist. You can dislike something and still practice common decency.... a lesson I have learned on these Forums. ;)

    This is true. I should not have said "worst" for Mirror Data. So I will attempt to be more fair in my criticism. I don't complain about cartoony or such in most cases, though there are some for which I simply don't care and others who look less like their actors than they ought. I believe Mirror Data is the most out-of-proportion due to his arm. That is so off-putting that it was a deciding factor against him in two begolds.
  • Jim SteeleJim Steele ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mirror Data has to be somewhere on the Bad Art List...
    DB: Do Better
  • How did I miss this? The new art is awesome! THANK YOU DB for taking the time to fix Blood Oath Jadzia!!

    (Actually, I know how I missed it: stomach flu. But what a great surprise to come back to!)

    Now if we can one day get the same treatment for CMO Bashir and Tomalak, I'll have all I need out of life :lol:
  • SoupKitchen RikerSoupKitchen Riker ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2020
    Banjo1012 wrote: »
    If you want to criticize the artwork, then stick to the facts about what you dislike and leave out the ineffective, vague comments or inane comparisons. Being constructive with criticism isn’t difficult. I personally think some of the artwork is too “cartoonish” and appears to have been hastily drawn. That is certainly more effective than saying it is the “worst”, or appears to have been drawn by someone age challenged, or that whomever drew it has no business being an artist. You can dislike something and still practice common decency.... a lesson I have learned on these Forums. ;)

    Age challenged. That’s a whole new level of social sensitivity

    That’s a joke...take it as such. 😂. I could have said 4 year old, but what’s the fun in that? Aside from my apparent failed attempt at humor, my statement is nothing about PC social sensitivity, just effective communication imho. Granted, sometimes my opinions are way outside the circle...lol

    4q3msgcqfhi6.jpeg


    “A committee is a cul-de-sac, down which good ideas are lured and quietly strangled.” —Mark TwainMEMBER: [BoB] Barrel of Bloodwine... We are recruiting and putting the “curv” in scurvy! Best Event Finish: #3 Honor Debt: Inconceivable...Honor Bank Account: Slowly building...
  • Banjo1012Banjo1012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Banjo1012 wrote: »
    If you want to criticize the artwork, then stick to the facts about what you dislike and leave out the ineffective, vague comments or inane comparisons. Being constructive with criticism isn’t difficult. I personally think some of the artwork is too “cartoonish” and appears to have been hastily drawn. That is certainly more effective than saying it is the “worst”, or appears to have been drawn by someone age challenged, or that whomever drew it has no business being an artist. You can dislike something and still practice common decency.... a lesson I have learned on these Forums. ;)

    Age challenged. That’s a whole new level of social sensitivity

    That’s a joke...take it as such. 😂. I could have said 4 year old, but what’s the fun in that? Aside from my apparent failed attempt at humor, my statement is nothing about PC social sensitivity, just effective communication imho. Granted, sometimes my opinions are way outside the circle...lol

    4q3msgcqfhi6.jpeg


    Oh. My bad. Now on that, I admit I could have done better

  • Great job on the new Blood Oath art, Tomalak reminds me of M. Bison in the Streetfighter series imo, hope Db update the the art on Mirror Reed and Mirror Jadzia Dax as well as CMO Bashir, the first two because the likeness is off, Mirror Reed looks like FBI Agent Fox Mulder, and Mirror Jadzia does not resemble Jadzia, Bashir it looks too primitive these days.
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