The better comparison for this pack I think is elusive treasures 1x. It's a guaranteed 4* behold with a chance of a 5*. There is a chance of exclusive crew, but no guarantee.
This pack is cheaper and has a guaranteed more limited pool for the 4*/5*. If you get the tuvok it's a bonus, but the value here is a behold from a limited subset of crew for 550 Dil. If there are 4*/5* crew that you want, I think it's at least worth considering.
How is 550 dil for a single 4* or 5* card better than spending 650 for a normal pack? In most worst-case packs you get the guaranteed purple from a 10x and 2 or 3 blues and the rest schematics. That's still way better than 550 for one purple, rations, and a low amount of honor.
In no universe is this price point acceptable for what you get.
I’d really like that Tuvok, though I’m a bit disappointed he’s not gold, though not EVERY crew can be gold. Anyhow, overall, as usual, no to this pack. I don’t like this format and even with the Behold it strikes me as still WAY too much dilithium.
Weirdly enough, I’m also Vulcan Housewife. Also, RNGesus hates me, like really, REALLY hates me.
The better comparison for this pack I think is elusive treasures 1x. It's a guaranteed 4* behold with a chance of a 5*. There is a chance of exclusive crew, but no guarantee.
This pack is cheaper and has a guaranteed more limited pool for the 4*/5*. If you get the tuvok it's a bonus, but the value here is a behold from a limited subset of crew for 550 Dil. If there are 4*/5* crew that you want, I think it's at least worth considering.
How is 550 dil for a single 4* or 5* card better than spending 650 for a normal pack? In most worst-case packs you get the guaranteed purple from a 10x and 2 or 3 blues and the rest schematics. That's still way better than 550 for one purple, rations, and a low amount of honor.
In no universe is this price point acceptable for what you get.
Agreed. Easy pass from me on these demerit packs. 🖖
"In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
Since I already have all Vulcan purples at 4 stars, and the chance for getting the new Tuvok is about 1.4%, I simply save my dilithium. This offer may be good for new players, since it has beholds included, but I prefer waiting for an interesting Dabo legendary.
The better comparison for this pack I think is elusive treasures 1x. It's a guaranteed 4* behold with a chance of a 5*. There is a chance of exclusive crew, but no guarantee.
This pack is cheaper and has a guaranteed more limited pool for the 4*/5*. If you get the tuvok it's a bonus, but the value here is a behold from a limited subset of crew for 550 Dil. If there are 4*/5* crew that you want, I think it's at least worth considering.
How is 550 dil for a single 4* or 5* card better than spending 650 for a normal pack? In most worst-case packs you get the guaranteed purple from a 10x and 2 or 3 blues and the rest schematics. That's still way better than 550 for one purple, rations, and a low amount of honor.
In no universe is this price point acceptable for what you get.
Elusive Treasures is 650 Dil for a single behold. It's 6500 for a 10x that guarantees all beholds, a 5*, and a guarantee of elusive crew
You may not think elusive treasures is worth the Dil. But this pack seems in line with that while being cheaper and offering a better guarantee.
@AviTrek is right in some way, Elusive Treasures are 650 dil for a single behold and nothing else. But the pool is much more attractive there.
I feel no urge to try this, but I appreciate TPs effort to listen and try to improve this pack type. In the end, when they finally will hit the sweet spot, this could solve streaks of 20+ packs without a gold vs luckers with 2+ golds in one pack as the odds have to be smoothed in this arrangement.
For me the price is the issue with such a diluted and outdated pool.
Wir, die Mirror Tribbles [MiT] haben freie Plätze zu vergeben. Kein Zwang und kein Stress, dafür aber Spaß, Discord und eine nette, hilfsbereite Gemeinschaft, incl. voll ausgebauter Starbase und täglich 700 ISM.
Putting a new blue in this kind of pack is absolutely heinous. If they're going to keep doing this, the new blue needs adding to the portal immediately. This is so bad, many of the super duper ultra mega whales aren't even pulling.
Whales will pull,
Whales.
will.
pull.
Lol
Except for the part where they're not. Both Paladin and SilverRose have said they're not pulling. SR won't pull any of these and Paladin said above he only pulled because he didn't look closely at the offer structure.
Putting a new blue in this kind of pack is absolutely heinous. If they're going to keep doing this, the new blue needs adding to the portal immediately. This is so bad, many of the super duper ultra mega whales aren't even pulling.
Whales will pull,
Whales.
will.
pull.
Lol
Perhaps you missed the posts from the games biggest spenders saying they won’t touch this with a ten-foot pole?
Putting a new blue in this kind of pack is absolutely heinous. If they're going to keep doing this, the new blue needs adding to the portal immediately. This is so bad, many of the super duper ultra mega whales aren't even pulling.
Whales will pull,
Whales.
will.
pull.
Lol
Except for the part where they're not. Both Paladin and SilverRose have said they're not pulling. SR won't pull any of these and Paladin said above he only pulled because he didn't look closely at the offer structure.
I have every 1,2,3, and 4* immortalized along with several hundred 5 stars. I almost never post to these forums, but these packs are so bad I had to give my input. I will not be purchasing.
Concise input about these packs as requested: <snip> let's remain productive, please - thanks. ~Shan.
I spent 0 on Diplomats, 550 on Romulans, and 550 on Vulcans. I got the fourth star on a SR Romulan. I got my first Logician Solbor from the Vulcan pack. I'm not mad at the results. I'm unfortunately unwilling to go beyond that first purchase. That can't be the business model they're trying to build.
The deal is not good for whales and veterans, but not a bad deal, overall. You get a guaranteed behold from a limited pool, which is nice. By my count, I have 17/19 of the 4* immortalized, so I'm passing. But if I had closer to 50%, I would take the deal.
If 1/70 is indeed accurate, or even close to it, then the avg cost of pulling a new Tuvok is 38,500 dilithium, or equivalent to running 3 Dabo Tables. These packs need to be seriously rethought, it’s just pure <snip> ~Shan.
It's not a bad deal for a very niche market of relatively new players. Comparable to a single pull of Elusive Treasures with limited crew and a couple of extras.
For the vast majority, and probably just about everyone who posts on this forum, it's crap.
Never thought I'd say it but...I miss regular Tuesday packs. While I rarely bought them, they offered a bit of window shopping during the Mon-Thurs lull.
I realize you all are doing market research but here's an idea: could you not?
IMO it's still getting better, these ideas for packs have gotten MARGINALLY better each time. Yea, releasing the new 3* with such low odds **tsk tsk** for collectors, BUT the guaranteed behold improves things for new or intermediate players
I'll start by thinking everyone for the feedback.
I cleaned a few comments, can I please request for a different way to express said feedback? Thanks!
Also as a reminder, the feedback of our forum members is extremely valuable but it is not necessarily representative of the majority of our players. This means that this feedback has to be part of a bigger analysis.
Worf and Airiam dropped from events, why are you burying Picard and Tuvok in expensive packs?
Seriously, what is the thought process? A 3* crew is only useful to new players. Buried in a collection pack more likely to drop a SR or Gold they won't even bother to keep pulling for him, the Behold drop is better. A 3* is useless to anyone else but collection chasers.
There are so many logic errors in this pack.
Collection Chasing. How many collection chasers need the Beholds? I can't speak for them, but I'm guessing most of them would end up as Honor unless they dropped a gold. And even then, they are going for vanity, and have probably already been around long enough to have most. If all they want or need is a 3*, is he worth a hundred bucks or more? Unless they are super impatient and can't wait till he's in the portal, I'm sure the majority wouldnt bother with this pack.
Power Creep. Most cards in the collection are old. If they were put into packs they would most likely end up priced in the 300s or 400s. Which again points to the pure vanity nature of the target of this pull. Most of these cards are discount cards with little use to players.
Confusing targets. What is the draw? The collection or the Tuvok?
You are trying to hit to many targets with one bullet. If you want to drop new 3* cards, just make cheap 3* packs. People would pay 250 for a random pull of the 3* cards in a collection. Some may complain, but a lot more new players and collecters who spend would quietly spend 200-250 on a 3* pull. You could probably even bump it up to 300 and drop in a 4* at 10%. You are only going to upset your collectors by asking them to drop high Dilithium for a card going straight to the freezer. New players might even consider it.
If you want to feature and market the entire collection, then create a separate pack. Unless you are going to find a way to balance the older cards against the new ones, you are going to have to discount them to sell them. Almost no gold card from 2018 or before has stats that hold up against a 4/4 FF. This issue is only going to get worse year after year. Old Golds will not sell packs at full price. If you want to market old cards you are going to have to make up some excuse to bump their stats. New players aren't going to buy in for those otherwise.
You would have caught more flies with a senior and junior pack for Vulcan collection. Or even a Tuvok pack and a Vulcan pack. I don't know what your actual target is, but from here it looks like you have too many targets, and your are trying to satisfy them all with a single overpriced pack stuffed with all of them. You are failing because there isn't enough overlapping interest in those targets.
Worf and Airiam dropped from events, why are you burying Picard and Tuvok in expensive packs?
Seriously, what is the thought process? A 3* crew is only useful to new players. Buried in a collection pack more likely to drop a SR or Gold they won't even bother to keep pulling for him, the Behold drop is better. A 3* is useless to anyone else but collection chasers.
There are so many logic errors in this pack.
Collection Chasing. How many collection chasers need the Beholds? I can't speak for them, but I'm guessing most of them would end up as Honor unless they dropped a gold. And even then, they are going for vanity, and have probably already been around long enough to have most. If all they want or need is a 3*, is he worth a hundred bucks or more? Unless they are super impatient and can't wait till he's in the portal, I'm sure the majority wouldnt bother with this pack.
Power Creep. Most cards in the collection are old. If they were put into packs they would most likely end up priced in the 300s or 400s. Which again points to the pure vanity nature of the target of this pull. Most of these cards are discount cards with little use to players.
Confusing targets. What is the draw? The collection or the Tuvok?
You are trying to hit to many targets with one bullet. If you want to drop new 3* cards, just make cheap 3* packs. People would pay 250 for a random pull of the 3* cards in a collection. Some may complain, but a lot more new players and collecters who spend would quietly spend 200-250 on a 3* pull. You could probably even bump it up to 300 and drop in a 4* at 10%. You are only going to upset your collectors by asking them to drop high Dilithium for a card going straight to the freezer. New players might even consider it.
If you want to feature and market the entire collection, then create a separate pack. Unless you are going to find a way to balance the older cards against the new ones, you are going to have to discount them to sell them. Almost no gold card from 2018 or before has stats that hold up against a 4/4 FF. This issue is only going to get worse year after year. Old Golds will not sell packs at full price. If you want to market old cards you are going to have to make up some excuse to bump their stats. New players aren't going to buy in for those otherwise.
You would have caught more flies with a senior and junior pack for Vulcan collection. Or even a Tuvok pack and a Vulcan pack. I don't know what your actual target is, but from here it looks like you have too many targets, and your are trying to satisfy them all with a single overpriced pack stuffed with all of them. You are failing because there isn't enough overlapping interest in those targets.
I believe this Pack was released to coincide with the new Tiers in Vulcan Collection.......
Some might be going for it, because it offers a second shot at one of the Pack Only Crew, and he is also in at least one other Collection.
I got one for a very simple reason. I'm an idiot, and did not realize it was one of the new 🍭 Packs. But I happened to get Tuvok. Who hopefully also go in the EV Suit Collection if we ever get it.
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
Putting a new blue in this kind of pack is absolutely heinous. If they're going to keep doing this, the new blue needs adding to the portal immediately. This is so bad, many of the super duper ultra mega whales aren't even pulling.
Whales will pull,
Whales.
will.
pull.
Lol
Except for the part where they're not. Both Paladin and SilverRose have said they're not pulling. SR won't pull any of these and Paladin said above he only pulled because he didn't look closely at the offer structure.
I have every 1,2,3, and 4* immortalized along with several hundred 5 stars. I almost never post to these forums, but these packs are so bad I had to give my input. I will not be purchasing.
Concise input about these packs as requested: <snip> let's remain productive, please - thanks. ~Shan.
I thought that starter ship offer was bad. This is ludicrous.
I stand by my decision to never purchase one of these demerit packs. Hopefully you can run some metrics to see just how much money you're losing from established players through this new predatory pack structure.
Sorry to be that guy but the game was predatory before that, any chance-based purchase is. Randomness is there to hide the real cost of items. This pack is just the next step, it's not worse than the 650 regular casino packs in the shop 365 days a year people seem to love for some reason.
I pulled one pack, not because I wanted Tuvok, but just to see how it felt. I guess that proves that this is an improvement, because I would never have opened one of the two previous collection packs.
So this is what I think about it:
1) This might actually be interesting for a new player. There's a guaranteed behold and a limited pool of cards, which could make sense under certain circumstances.
2) Please don't replace Tuesday packs with these collection packs (and I'm saying that as someone who might have bought only 3 or 4 Tuesday packs in 3 years).
3) Please don't use these kind of packs to introduce new crew to the game, especially if they're 5* (the chances are so awful, that if Tuvok had been a 5* and a crew version that I really want of a crew that I love this would have been very frustrating. As in, rage-quit frustrating).
4) The fact that every option in the behold was from the featured collection (if I remember well) is a good thing. It would be great if this was applied to Elusive Treasure packs too.
5) The replicator rations and 2* in the first two slots felt like an insult. I understand that replicator rations might be of some value to new players, but please don't put 2* in dilithium packs. No one is happy to pay dilithium for a 2*.
6) I don't think I will ever open one of these again, but if they were introduced as a new type of pack and not as a replacement for Tuesday packs and if they didn't contain new 5*, I wouldn't have an issue with their presence in the game.
Generally speaking I only wasted 550 dilithium on this pack because dilithium in general has lost most of its value to me. Since I have most existing 4*, plenty of crew slots and 4 shuttles, it's just one more currecy that accumulates into my account until I flush it down the drain to get some honor. Because of that, it's not that much different from merits or credits. I can spend millions of credits on basic pulls or tens of thousands of merits on merit pulls until I get a begold/gold drop, but that doesn't make me feel like credits or merits are valuable. Using dilithium on packs most of the time feels the same way. So while these collection packs might be interesting for new players, it would be nice if we could also get some packs that actually offer something of value for long-time players.
Putting a new blue in this kind of pack is absolutely heinous. If they're going to keep doing this, the new blue needs adding to the portal immediately. This is so bad, many of the super duper ultra mega whales aren't even pulling.
Whales will pull,
Whales.
will.
pull.
Lol
The not so smart whales will pull.
Not so smart.
Whales.
Will.
Pull.
I corrected your post for you. You're welcome.
The Guardians of Tomorrow Protecting the Galaxy's Future from Itself
Fleet Admiral
I do appreciate the move to beholds. Thanks for this change TP.
If I still needed stars on half the 4* Vulcans, I'd consider this pack. So I do understand why it may appeal to some newer players.
But I certainly understand the collectors disappointment. If all you wanted was the new 3*, this pack has to be a major frustration. If these packs continue, it might be wise to avoid putting in any exclusive crew.
I do appreciate the move to beholds. Thanks for this change TP.
If I still needed stars on half the 4* Vulcans, I'd consider this pack. So I do understand why it may appeal to some newer players.
But I certainly understand the collectors disappointment. If all you wanted was the new 3*, this pack has to be a major frustration. If these packs continue, it might be wise to avoid putting in any exclusive crew.
Having a guarantee of at least a 4 🌟 is kind of better than the previous offers of this format. I agree with you 💯% that introducing a new 3 🌟 this way is, as the kids say these days, "weak sauce".
My feedback would be "move in the right direction with the Behold. Still not quite "perfect" with the other card being a 1/70 chance for the new Tuesday Crew. Especially when can be a 1 🌟 instead."
But, Tipping Point does seem to be trying to work out this format, since it is "evolving" each time.
Not Goldilocks yet, but at least you tried.
🤓🖖👍🖖🤓
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
Comments
How is 550 dil for a single 4* or 5* card better than spending 650 for a normal pack? In most worst-case packs you get the guaranteed purple from a 10x and 2 or 3 blues and the rest schematics. That's still way better than 550 for one purple, rations, and a low amount of honor.
In no universe is this price point acceptable for what you get.
Agreed. Easy pass from me on these demerit packs. 🖖
I'm glad the behold is there, and it makes the offer a lot more reasonable.
I'm still not going to do a pull though.
Elusive Treasures is 650 Dil for a single behold. It's 6500 for a 10x that guarantees all beholds, a 5*, and a guarantee of elusive crew
You may not think elusive treasures is worth the Dil. But this pack seems in line with that while being cheaper and offering a better guarantee.
I feel no urge to try this, but I appreciate TPs effort to listen and try to improve this pack type. In the end, when they finally will hit the sweet spot, this could solve streaks of 20+ packs without a gold vs luckers with 2+ golds in one pack as the odds have to be smoothed in this arrangement.
For me the price is the issue with such a diluted and outdated pool.
Except for the part where they're not. Both Paladin and SilverRose have said they're not pulling. SR won't pull any of these and Paladin said above he only pulled because he didn't look closely at the offer structure.
Perhaps you missed the posts from the games biggest spenders saying they won’t touch this with a ten-foot pole?
I have every 1,2,3, and 4* immortalized along with several hundred 5 stars. I almost never post to these forums, but these packs are so bad I had to give my input. I will not be purchasing.
Concise input about these packs as requested: <snip> let's remain productive, please - thanks. ~Shan.
No desire/interest to spend on this pack as its overall <snip> ~Shan for the price.
For the vast majority, and probably just about everyone who posts on this forum, it's crap.
I realize you all are doing market research but here's an idea: could you not?
Like I said, it's better, but like...... barely
I cleaned a few comments, can I please request for a different way to express said feedback? Thanks!
Also as a reminder, the feedback of our forum members is extremely valuable but it is not necessarily representative of the majority of our players. This means that this feedback has to be part of a bigger analysis.
One & done. Behold was three FF......
Seriously, what is the thought process? A 3* crew is only useful to new players. Buried in a collection pack more likely to drop a SR or Gold they won't even bother to keep pulling for him, the Behold drop is better. A 3* is useless to anyone else but collection chasers.
There are so many logic errors in this pack.
Collection Chasing. How many collection chasers need the Beholds? I can't speak for them, but I'm guessing most of them would end up as Honor unless they dropped a gold. And even then, they are going for vanity, and have probably already been around long enough to have most. If all they want or need is a 3*, is he worth a hundred bucks or more? Unless they are super impatient and can't wait till he's in the portal, I'm sure the majority wouldnt bother with this pack.
Power Creep. Most cards in the collection are old. If they were put into packs they would most likely end up priced in the 300s or 400s. Which again points to the pure vanity nature of the target of this pull. Most of these cards are discount cards with little use to players.
Confusing targets. What is the draw? The collection or the Tuvok?
You are trying to hit to many targets with one bullet. If you want to drop new 3* cards, just make cheap 3* packs. People would pay 250 for a random pull of the 3* cards in a collection. Some may complain, but a lot more new players and collecters who spend would quietly spend 200-250 on a 3* pull. You could probably even bump it up to 300 and drop in a 4* at 10%. You are only going to upset your collectors by asking them to drop high Dilithium for a card going straight to the freezer. New players might even consider it.
If you want to feature and market the entire collection, then create a separate pack. Unless you are going to find a way to balance the older cards against the new ones, you are going to have to discount them to sell them. Almost no gold card from 2018 or before has stats that hold up against a 4/4 FF. This issue is only going to get worse year after year. Old Golds will not sell packs at full price. If you want to market old cards you are going to have to make up some excuse to bump their stats. New players aren't going to buy in for those otherwise.
You would have caught more flies with a senior and junior pack for Vulcan collection. Or even a Tuvok pack and a Vulcan pack. I don't know what your actual target is, but from here it looks like you have too many targets, and your are trying to satisfy them all with a single overpriced pack stuffed with all of them. You are failing because there isn't enough overlapping interest in those targets.
I believe this Pack was released to coincide with the new Tiers in Vulcan Collection.......
Some might be going for it, because it offers a second shot at one of the Pack Only Crew, and he is also in at least one other Collection.
I got one for a very simple reason. I'm an idiot, and did not realize it was one of the new 🍭 Packs. But I happened to get Tuvok. Who hopefully also go in the EV Suit Collection if we ever get it.
I do NOT like this pack
Sorry to be that guy but the game was predatory before that, any chance-based purchase is. Randomness is there to hide the real cost of items. This pack is just the next step, it's not worse than the 650 regular casino packs in the shop 365 days a year people seem to love for some reason.
So this is what I think about it:
1) This might actually be interesting for a new player. There's a guaranteed behold and a limited pool of cards, which could make sense under certain circumstances.
2) Please don't replace Tuesday packs with these collection packs (and I'm saying that as someone who might have bought only 3 or 4 Tuesday packs in 3 years).
3) Please don't use these kind of packs to introduce new crew to the game, especially if they're 5* (the chances are so awful, that if Tuvok had been a 5* and a crew version that I really want of a crew that I love this would have been very frustrating. As in, rage-quit frustrating).
4) The fact that every option in the behold was from the featured collection (if I remember well) is a good thing. It would be great if this was applied to Elusive Treasure packs too.
5) The replicator rations and 2* in the first two slots felt like an insult. I understand that replicator rations might be of some value to new players, but please don't put 2* in dilithium packs. No one is happy to pay dilithium for a 2*.
6) I don't think I will ever open one of these again, but if they were introduced as a new type of pack and not as a replacement for Tuesday packs and if they didn't contain new 5*, I wouldn't have an issue with their presence in the game.
Generally speaking I only wasted 550 dilithium on this pack because dilithium in general has lost most of its value to me. Since I have most existing 4*, plenty of crew slots and 4 shuttles, it's just one more currecy that accumulates into my account until I flush it down the drain to get some honor. Because of that, it's not that much different from merits or credits. I can spend millions of credits on basic pulls or tens of thousands of merits on merit pulls until I get a begold/gold drop, but that doesn't make me feel like credits or merits are valuable. Using dilithium on packs most of the time feels the same way. So while these collection packs might be interesting for new players, it would be nice if we could also get some packs that actually offer something of value for long-time players.
The not so smart whales will pull.
Not so smart.
Whales.
Will.
Pull.
I corrected your post for you. You're welcome.
Protecting the Galaxy's Future from Itself
Fleet Admiral
For more info on us, check our wiki page:
https://sttwiki.org/wiki/Fleet_Guardians_of_Tomorrow
GoT Bot server: https://discord.gg/R8QzpjW
All are welcome to join and use the Bot.
If I still needed stars on half the 4* Vulcans, I'd consider this pack. So I do understand why it may appeal to some newer players.
But I certainly understand the collectors disappointment. If all you wanted was the new 3*, this pack has to be a major frustration. If these packs continue, it might be wise to avoid putting in any exclusive crew.
Having a guarantee of at least a 4 🌟 is kind of better than the previous offers of this format. I agree with you 💯% that introducing a new 3 🌟 this way is, as the kids say these days, "weak sauce".
My feedback would be "move in the right direction with the Behold. Still not quite "perfect" with the other card being a 1/70 chance for the new Tuesday Crew. Especially when can be a 1 🌟 instead."
But, Tipping Point does seem to be trying to work out this format, since it is "evolving" each time.
Not Goldilocks yet, but at least you tried.
🤓🖖👍🖖🤓
There is 'evolving' and there is 'beating a dead horse'.