I do appreciate the move to beholds. Thanks for this change TP.
If I still needed stars on half the 4* Vulcans, I'd consider this pack. So I do understand why it may appeal to some newer players.
But I certainly understand the collectors disappointment. If all you wanted was the new 3*, this pack has to be a major frustration. If these packs continue, it might be wise to avoid putting in any exclusive crew.
But, Tipping Point does seem to be trying to work out this format, since it is "evolving" each time.
I almost think they decided to make Tuvok a rare when they thought this pack would be like the Picard pack and have a blue in 90% of the packs, and forgot to see if that still made sense after they changed the pack format.
Once they changed the pack to have a purple or gold guarantee slot, they should have changed Tuvok to be a purple. With the behold that would have worked out to a 3/19 (since they are a behold) chance of Tuvok in each purple slot, or about a 1/7 chance overall of a Tuvok.
Without having looked at any of the details - sounds cool.
Having looked at the details...it has been weighed; it has been measured; and it has been found wanting.
“A committee is a cul-de-sac, down which good ideas are lured and quietly strangled.” —Mark TwainMEMBER: [BoB] Barrel of Bloodwine... We are recruiting and putting the “curv” in scurvy! Best Event Finish: #3 Honor Debt: Inconceivable...Honor Bank Account: Slowly building...
I’d really like that Tuvok, though I’m a bit disappointed he’s not gold, though not EVERY crew can be gold. Anyhow, overall, as usual, no to this pack. I don’t like this format and even with the Behold it strikes me as still WAY too much dilithium.
Just been thinking, EV suit Chekov was in December, EV suit Nhan four weeks ago, and now EV suit Tuvok. We could be headed for an EV suit collection, now we have at least eight including Hawk.
Maybe TP made EV suit Tuvok a rare, as an easy one to start the collection.
I do appreciate the move to beholds. Thanks for this change TP.
If I still needed stars on half the 4* Vulcans, I'd consider this pack. So I do understand why it may appeal to some newer players.
But I certainly understand the collectors disappointment. If all you wanted was the new 3*, this pack has to be a major frustration. If these packs continue, it might be wise to avoid putting in any exclusive crew.
But, Tipping Point does seem to be trying to work out this format, since it is "evolving" each time.
I almost think they decided to make Tuvok a rare when they thought this pack would be like the Picard pack and have a blue in 90% of the packs, and forgot to see if that still made sense after they changed the pack format.
Once they changed the pack to have a purple or gold guarantee slot, they should have changed Tuvok to be a purple. With the behold that would have worked out to a 3/19 (since they are a behold) chance of Tuvok in each purple slot, or about a 1/7 chance overall of a Tuvok.
Instead we got a 1/70 blue.
This analysis of the Pack sounds so logical, it has to be right.
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
I’d really like that Tuvok, though I’m a bit disappointed he’s not gold, though not EVERY crew can be gold. Anyhow, overall, as usual, no to this pack. I don’t like this format and even with the Behold it strikes me as still WAY too much dilithium.
Just been thinking, EV suit Chekov was in December, EV suit Nhan four weeks ago, and now EV suit Tuvok. We could be headed for an EV suit collection, now we have at least eight including Hawk.
Maybe TP made EV suit Tuvok a rare, as an easy one to start the collection.
That could actually be a possibility. They just messed up the easiness by putting him in a 1/70 Pack. It's almost like there was a committee. One guy was like "We should make a new 3 🌟 EV Suit Crew.". One guy was like "We should do a Vulcan Collection Pack." But then the chairman of the committee was like "Those are both good ideas. Let's put them together." "But, sir..." "Together!"
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
I figure there's a decent chance EV Suit Tuvok will turn up in the June mega. If not... Eh, whatever.
That makes sense. Four shots at it. My cracked crystal ball still has me thinking we might get a new 3 🌟 Ranked this week to go with Hooman Airiam. Based on the shout out in the Week Three Event post dialogue.
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
I do appreciate the move to beholds. Thanks for this change TP.
If I still needed stars on half the 4* Vulcans, I'd consider this pack. So I do understand why it may appeal to some newer players.
But I certainly understand the collectors disappointment. If all you wanted was the new 3*, this pack has to be a major frustration. If these packs continue, it might be wise to avoid putting in any exclusive crew.
But, Tipping Point does seem to be trying to work out this format, since it is "evolving" each time.
I almost think they decided to make Tuvok a rare when they thought this pack would be like the Picard pack and have a blue in 90% of the packs, and forgot to see if that still made sense after they changed the pack format.
Once they changed the pack to have a purple or gold guarantee slot, they should have changed Tuvok to be a purple. With the behold that would have worked out to a 3/19 (since they are a behold) chance of Tuvok in each purple slot, or about a 1/7 chance overall of a Tuvok.
Instead we got a 1/70 blue.
This analysis of the Pack sounds so logical, it has to be right.
With that logic Paladin should be in the Vulcan collection too.
I do appreciate the move to beholds. Thanks for this change TP.
If I still needed stars on half the 4* Vulcans, I'd consider this pack. So I do understand why it may appeal to some newer players.
But I certainly understand the collectors disappointment. If all you wanted was the new 3*, this pack has to be a major frustration. If these packs continue, it might be wise to avoid putting in any exclusive crew.
But, Tipping Point does seem to be trying to work out this format, since it is "evolving" each time.
I almost think they decided to make Tuvok a rare when they thought this pack would be like the Picard pack and have a blue in 90% of the packs, and forgot to see if that still made sense after they changed the pack format.
Once they changed the pack to have a purple or gold guarantee slot, they should have changed Tuvok to be a purple. With the behold that would have worked out to a 3/19 (since they are a behold) chance of Tuvok in each purple slot, or about a 1/7 chance overall of a Tuvok.
Instead we got a 1/70 blue.
That or they could have made the second slot a guaranteed 3* (from the collection) instead of adding 1* and 2* crew and a chance for 60 honor (which is less than what you get for dismissing a 1/3*). I'm not sure if that would be enough for dedicated collectors to buy those packs, but at least it wouldn't take tens of thousands of dilithium to get a new 3*.
The honor could be in the first slot as an alternative to the replicator rations. That would still be way less honor than in a normal dilithium pull, but for people who have a collection close to the next tier or collect all of the crew in the portal, these packs could make more sense this way.
But generally speaking, I think the best thing would be not to add new crew through these kind of packs.
So having a behold in the pack is the best format for these packs yet. Although still overpriced.
But then I thought, what if these packs remained in the faction store? Would they sell more of there if they were always available as an impulse buy?
I mean, the way they’re pushing it, it just isn’t feeling like a “hey, we’re just trying something different” kinda thing. I might totally be wrong and hope I am.
I mean, the way they’re pushing it, it just isn’t feeling like a “hey, we’re just trying something different” kinda thing. I might totally be wrong and hope I am.
I hope you are wrong, too. Maybe have a "regular" 650 Pack and one of these "Neutered" side by side a few Tuesdays. If they {as has been clearly indicated} don't count our feedback here as much as numbers they can look at in a purchase statistic, then judge the Packs side by side. See which one does better, three Drops, with worse guarantees, or ten Drops, with much better returns, even if you are turning 3 🌟 and 4 🌟 Dupes into more Honour than the "Neutered" Packs have the potential to generate.
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
I mean, the way they’re pushing it, it just isn’t feeling like a “hey, we’re just trying something different” kinda thing. I might totally be wrong and hope I am.
I hope you are wrong, too. Maybe have a "regular" 650 Pack and one of these "Neutered" side by side a few Tuesdays. If they {as has been clearly indicated} don't count our feedback here as much as numbers they can look at in a purchase statistic, then judge the Packs side by side. See which one does better, three Drops, with worse guarantees, or ten Drops, with much better returns, even if you are turning 3 🌟 and 4 🌟 Dupes into more Honour than the "Neutered" Packs have the potential to generate.
I think that’s exactly what they are doing, testing price points for these “Collection” packs this month against Mega 490’s & recaps and next month (non-Mega) against regular Tuesday 650 packs. 🖖
"In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
My position
Regarding the vulcan collections:
I have all 4 stars except Solok
I have all 3 stars except the new Tuvok
I have all the 2 and 1* although if I didn't I really wouldn't be fussed in the slightest as they are all in portal and drop in voyages.
Regarding Replicator Rations well I have 422 gold 6920 purple 6721 Blue 68 green and 15 grey not exactly going to run out any time soon
What I do lack is completing all 5* ships and I am on the hunt for a boatload of honor, on standard premium portals I don't think I have received anything less than 500 honor from airlock fodder and generally the average seems to be 700-800.
So lets compare the 2 packs a chance of getting more honor and schematics I need can put good use to whereas a pack that offers minimal chance of getting a Vulcan I need and probably a chance of getting less than 500 honor and replicator rations superfluous to requirements.
Granted not everybody's situation is the same but I am sure many intermediate and above players really wouldn't need rep rations and If I am reading the blurb right you only get 8 "things" from a pack instead of 10.
TLDR
My view is that it is not as valuable as a premium pack and has even worse chance of giving me any kind of gratification from a purchase.
Addendum:
I also note Solok is not in the live long and prosper collection so his value to me is also minimal.
[was on Sabbatical/Hiatus] Currently a trialist at Galaxy SquadronSTAY SAFE and KBO
While further ruminating on this, the only other feedback I can offer is this:
Tomorrow, at 1pm when the pack comes down, have one of the folks on the team run a quick report or query of exactly how many Tuvoks there are out there in the wild. I would bet my pile of citations that he's within the top 4 'least owned' cards in the game.
He's a 3*.
That should tell everyone all they need to know.
While further ruminating on this, the only other feedback I can offer is this:
Tomorrow, at 1pm when the pack comes down, have one of the folks on the team run a quick report or query of exactly how many Tuvoks there are out there in the wild. I would bet my pile of citations that he's within the top 4 'least owned' cards in the game.
He's a 3*.
That should tell everyone all they need to know.
He's a new card added via a pack. I bet all all new crew added via packs show up on that list initially.
Number owned is just number of sales * odds of getting card per pack. All TP cares about is number of sales. So why cloud the data with number owned. Just look at pack sales which I'm sure they are already doing.
I think a lot of the diverging opinions on this pack come from if people are looking at the pack as a way to buy the new crew, or if people are looking at the pack as a way of getting the existing crew.
If you regularly buy Tuesday packs for the new crew, this was a terrible pack to get Tuvok compared to a normal Tuesday pack. 1.4% chance for Tuvok compared to 3.3% chance of the new 5* in a normal Tuesday pack.
If you look at the pack as a guaranteed behold for a limited set of crew including crew you want, then it's a behold for less than an elusive treasures 1x while having a smaller set of guaranteed crew including some elusive crew.
If you're a whale with nearly all the card already, then all you are buying is Tuvok and I can see why you hate the pack. If you have more cards missing, including some of the newer Vulcan 4* crew, then this pack is more reasonable.
The sad thing is, there isn't any more the possibility to hunt down these new 3 star crews in Dabo, since the 3 star crews were thrown out a long time ago. Maybe it would be nice, if there would be an alternative way for long time players to obtaining these new 3 star crews. Like the 5 star crew offers on Tuesday. These offers could be tied to VIP level 14 or a minimum player level like 90. Just my thoughts.
Disappointed with the results from 5x buying this pack in an attempt to get at least 1x EV Tuvok.
AI got 3x the 1* Tuvok, and from the beholds i only got purples which i already had immortalised.
The price is good for packs like these IMHO when ...
10x rewards, like all other packs
Good chance of at least the new is paramount , getting several of the 1* tuvok over the promoted 3* is a slap in the face.
The trainers, rations and other stuff should be taken out, or given a behold-like option ( Ration/Trainer/Honor/Credit )
I feel quite taken in by this promo and the previous ones ..
I apreciate the improvements that are being made to them, but so far they seem more like a money-grab than a genuine interesting item to purchase.
Once I separated personal emotion from the specific issue, what @AviTrek said last really does hit the nail on the head.
In a bubble, from a Tuesday pack or limited pack point of view, it's a great delivery system for a limited pool of specific characters, done in a specific way for a specific reason (like boosting your count of a recently buffed collection).
You could probably stand to slightly tweak a few of the slot 1/slot 2/price variables to really hit the sweet spot, but I could see the pack being a good option in that scenario.
Being your targeted 'Tuesday Pack Buyer' , or just general fool who chases every card, what doesn't work is introducing a new 3* card and marketing that, front and center, as the feature of the pack. The insanely low drop % for a 3* that is new and included wasn't the right play there.
I've said before, TP just needs to know the audience. If they take a bit from each experience over the last few attempts and tweak a bit, they will have a winner on their hands. I have zero qualms with a new style of packs coming out to 'freshen up' the normal Tuesday push for special occasions like this. I love to see new innovations in the way I can give them my money, but of course as long as they are being fair about it. Once I realized I wasn't getting a Tuvok for likely 6 months and had some lunch, everything was fine.
Comments
Well, it's kind of clear from Shan's post earlier that these are selling,and thus will continue. At least they are actively trying, based on feedback.
I almost think they decided to make Tuvok a rare when they thought this pack would be like the Picard pack and have a blue in 90% of the packs, and forgot to see if that still made sense after they changed the pack format.
Once they changed the pack to have a purple or gold guarantee slot, they should have changed Tuvok to be a purple. With the behold that would have worked out to a 3/19 (since they are a behold) chance of Tuvok in each purple slot, or about a 1/7 chance overall of a Tuvok.
Instead we got a 1/70 blue.
Having looked at the details...it has been weighed; it has been measured; and it has been found wanting.
Just been thinking, EV suit Chekov was in December, EV suit Nhan four weeks ago, and now EV suit Tuvok. We could be headed for an EV suit collection, now we have at least eight including Hawk.
Maybe TP made EV suit Tuvok a rare, as an easy one to start the collection.
This analysis of the Pack sounds so logical, it has to be right.
That could actually be a possibility. They just messed up the easiness by putting him in a 1/70 Pack. It's almost like there was a committee. One guy was like "We should make a new 3 🌟 EV Suit Crew.". One guy was like "We should do a Vulcan Collection Pack." But then the chairman of the committee was like "Those are both good ideas. Let's put them together." "But, sir..." "Together!"
That makes sense. Four shots at it. My cracked crystal ball still has me thinking we might get a new 3 🌟 Ranked this week to go with Hooman Airiam. Based on the shout out in the Week Three Event post dialogue.
In either case, a behold would have a fair chance of giving me a card I could use, and I'd be happy to spend 550 dil on that.
Starport
With that logic Paladin should be in the Vulcan collection too.
That or they could have made the second slot a guaranteed 3* (from the collection) instead of adding 1* and 2* crew and a chance for 60 honor (which is less than what you get for dismissing a 1/3*). I'm not sure if that would be enough for dedicated collectors to buy those packs, but at least it wouldn't take tens of thousands of dilithium to get a new 3*.
The honor could be in the first slot as an alternative to the replicator rations. That would still be way less honor than in a normal dilithium pull, but for people who have a collection close to the next tier or collect all of the crew in the portal, these packs could make more sense this way.
But generally speaking, I think the best thing would be not to add new crew through these kind of packs.
But then I thought, what if these packs remained in the faction store? Would they sell more of there if they were always available as an impulse buy?
Yeah, I'd be happy to buy borg packs too.
Not until this very moment. I guess I can hold off on all but the juiciest of dilithium deals, if any at all, should that end up happening.
I hope you are wrong, too. Maybe have a "regular" 650 Pack and one of these "Neutered" side by side a few Tuesdays. If they {as has been clearly indicated} don't count our feedback here as much as numbers they can look at in a purchase statistic, then judge the Packs side by side. See which one does better, three Drops, with worse guarantees, or ten Drops, with much better returns, even if you are turning 3 🌟 and 4 🌟 Dupes into more Honour than the "Neutered" Packs have the potential to generate.
I think that’s exactly what they are doing, testing price points for these “Collection” packs this month against Mega 490’s & recaps and next month (non-Mega) against regular Tuesday 650 packs. 🖖
Regarding the vulcan collections:
I have all 4 stars except Solok
I have all 3 stars except the new Tuvok
I have all the 2 and 1* although if I didn't I really wouldn't be fussed in the slightest as they are all in portal and drop in voyages.
Regarding Replicator Rations well I have 422 gold 6920 purple 6721 Blue 68 green and 15 grey not exactly going to run out any time soon
What I do lack is completing all 5* ships and I am on the hunt for a boatload of honor, on standard premium portals I don't think I have received anything less than 500 honor from airlock fodder and generally the average seems to be 700-800.
So lets compare the 2 packs a chance of getting more honor and schematics I need can put good use to whereas a pack that offers minimal chance of getting a Vulcan I need and probably a chance of getting less than 500 honor and replicator rations superfluous to requirements.
Granted not everybody's situation is the same but I am sure many intermediate and above players really wouldn't need rep rations and If I am reading the blurb right you only get 8 "things" from a pack instead of 10.
TLDR
My view is that it is not as valuable as a premium pack and has even worse chance of giving me any kind of gratification from a purchase.
Addendum:
I also note Solok is not in the live long and prosper collection so his value to me is also minimal.
Thank you for your feedback
I checked the collection and Logician Solok is in it.
Tomorrow, at 1pm when the pack comes down, have one of the folks on the team run a quick report or query of exactly how many Tuvoks there are out there in the wild. I would bet my pile of citations that he's within the top 4 'least owned' cards in the game.
He's a 3*.
That should tell everyone all they need to know.
He's a new card added via a pack. I bet all all new crew added via packs show up on that list initially.
Number owned is just number of sales * odds of getting card per pack. All TP cares about is number of sales. So why cloud the data with number owned. Just look at pack sales which I'm sure they are already doing.
If you regularly buy Tuesday packs for the new crew, this was a terrible pack to get Tuvok compared to a normal Tuesday pack. 1.4% chance for Tuvok compared to 3.3% chance of the new 5* in a normal Tuesday pack.
If you look at the pack as a guaranteed behold for a limited set of crew including crew you want, then it's a behold for less than an elusive treasures 1x while having a smaller set of guaranteed crew including some elusive crew.
If you're a whale with nearly all the card already, then all you are buying is Tuvok and I can see why you hate the pack. If you have more cards missing, including some of the newer Vulcan 4* crew, then this pack is more reasonable.
AI got 3x the 1* Tuvok, and from the beholds i only got purples which i already had immortalised.
The price is good for packs like these IMHO when ...
10x rewards, like all other packs
Good chance of at least the new is paramount , getting several of the 1* tuvok over the promoted 3* is a slap in the face.
The trainers, rations and other stuff should be taken out, or given a behold-like option ( Ration/Trainer/Honor/Credit )
I feel quite taken in by this promo and the previous ones ..
I apreciate the improvements that are being made to them, but so far they seem more like a money-grab than a genuine interesting item to purchase.
In a bubble, from a Tuesday pack or limited pack point of view, it's a great delivery system for a limited pool of specific characters, done in a specific way for a specific reason (like boosting your count of a recently buffed collection).
You could probably stand to slightly tweak a few of the slot 1/slot 2/price variables to really hit the sweet spot, but I could see the pack being a good option in that scenario.
Being your targeted 'Tuesday Pack Buyer' , or just general fool who chases every card, what doesn't work is introducing a new 3* card and marketing that, front and center, as the feature of the pack. The insanely low drop % for a 3* that is new and included wasn't the right play there.
I've said before, TP just needs to know the audience. If they take a bit from each experience over the last few attempts and tweak a bit, they will have a winner on their hands. I have zero qualms with a new style of packs coming out to 'freshen up' the normal Tuesday push for special occasions like this. I love to see new innovations in the way I can give them my money, but of course as long as they are being fair about it. Once I realized I wasn't getting a Tuvok for likely 6 months and had some lunch, everything was fine.