Home The Bridge

TP is Scrooge

24

Comments

  • I can realize how different the answers can be from thread to thread talking more or less about the same thing!
    There is a thread started on December 23rd: What happened to last year's "12 days of offers and sales", there we see lots of people defending TP for not doing a Honor Sale, while here we are all saying how bad they are for not have put a Honor Sale in place. Data would say: "Intriguing"

    Both threads are part now of the The Bridge first page.
  • Qod bless us, everyone!
  • Princess TristaPrincess Trista ✭✭✭✭✭
    @IceCat try this before going after someone. There are two almost identical threads on this topic, and this was copied from the other thread. Those 'in this together' items were for something totally different. Those were freebies. A deal is not a freebie. A deal helps out both parties and takes our money and evidently TP isn't concerned about making money or, does not care about Christmas.
    HaBlack wrote: »
    For everyone saying ‘I wasn’t expecting anything free from TP’ i’m curious why... we’ve gotten something free every other Christmas.... 🖖🖖

    But was it specifically on Christmas or just around the holiday season? I honestly can't remember.

    December 17th 2019 - 12 days of offers and a sale
    December 18th 2018 - Two very special Honor offerings available for a limited time
    December 20th 2017 - Holiday Sale
    ...
  • The game is getting worse.. not better. This is a fact.
  • (HGH)Apollo(HGH)Apollo ✭✭✭✭✭
    It may be that DB had so many deals because money was tight and they wanted to increase revenue for the sale.
    Let’s fly!
  • MiT SanoaMiT Sanoa ✭✭✭✭✭
    It may be that DB had so many deals because money was tight and they wanted to increase revenue for the sale.
    Very likely this.
    Wir, die Mirror Tribbles [MiT] haben freie Plätze zu vergeben. Kein Zwang und kein Stress, dafür aber Spaß, Discord und eine nette, hilfsbereite Gemeinschaft, incl. voll ausgebauter Starbase und täglich 700 ISM.
  • Princess TristaPrincess Trista ✭✭✭✭✭
    It may be that DB had so many deals because money was tight and they wanted to increase revenue for the sale.
    Very likely this.

    That is funny, because everything that TP sells is virtual - it is non-existent. It is made-up or free. So anything they sell is almost pure profit anyway.
  • IceCatIceCat ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2020
    @IceCat try this before going after someone. There are two almost identical threads on this topic, and this was copied from the other thread. Those 'in this together' items were for something totally different. Those were freebies. A deal is not a freebie. A deal helps out both parties and takes our money and evidently TP isn't concerned about making money or, does not care about Christmas.
    HaBlack wrote: »
    For everyone saying ‘I wasn’t expecting anything free from TP’ i’m curious why... we’ve gotten something free every other Christmas.... 🖖🖖

    But was it specifically on Christmas or just around the holiday season? I honestly can't remember.

    December 17th 2019 - 12 days of offers and a sale
    December 18th 2018 - Two very special Honor offerings available for a limited time
    December 20th 2017 - Holiday Sale
    ...

    Not sure how I went after you @Princess Trista, but I feel you're splitting hairs here.

    Whether it's the amount/frequency of freebies or "deals", I still feel a little less entitlement and a little more gratitude would go a long way.

    It's also a bit absurd to think a company doesn't care about making money, particularly during the holiday season. That makes no sense at all.
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    IceCat wrote: »
    Seems some people missed the point of A Chrismas Carol, aka the Scrooge story. You know, about how being greedy is bad, and that we should appreciate what we have gotten instead of always wanting more. :p

    Very well said!

    "For a couple of hours out of the year, we are the people we always hoped to be!"-Francis Xavier Cross
    "The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    IceCat wrote: »
    To those who took issue with my comment, sorry for the late reply. I was spending Christmas with family, focusing on what was important, instead of being bitter about a game 😏

    Am I being snarky? Yes. The reason being? I'm getting more than a little bit frustrated. I've tried bringing a more positive point of view, and it's been lost on deaf ears. Some people just seem to want to be miserable.

    The point I was trying to make was that TP has been giving us a lot of things this year. Tons of free care packages. Universal crew giveaways. Extras in the campaigns. Just to name a few. Yet instead of being appreciative, some people just want to complain and make demands about how they expected and deserve more.

    You know who else did that? Scrooge. No matter what he had, it was never enough. He had a sense of entitlement, just like seems to be prevalent amongst certain members of this community. He missed what was truly important in life and regretted it dearly.

    Has TP done things perfectly? No, of course not. I've never been an apologist for the company and have taken them to task for plenty of things they've done wrong. But this isn't it. Nor is it the hill to die on, as some people seem to feel it is.

    I honestly don't get how some people invest so much time into a game, and by extension, a company, that they feel is taking them for granted. Or ripping them off. These complaints are made on a daily basis, and it's getting old.

    If people are so unfulfilled because a GAME doesn't make them happy because it doesn't give out enough FREE stuff, perhaps those people should take a step back. Are things really that bad, that in a year that has been one of the worst in recent memory, people have to gripe about that?

    Not all ears have been deaf. I promise!

    "The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
  • Cpt_insano_2k1Cpt_insano_2k1 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oomox wrote: »
    IceCat wrote: »
    @IceCat try this before going after someone. There are two almost identical threads on this topic, and this was copied from the other thread. Those 'in this together' items were for something totally different. Those were freebies. A deal is not a freebie. A deal helps out both parties and takes our money and evidently TP isn't concerned about making money or, does not care about Christmas.
    HaBlack wrote: »
    For everyone saying ‘I wasn’t expecting anything free from TP’ i’m curious why... we’ve gotten something free every other Christmas.... 🖖🖖

    But was it specifically on Christmas or just around the holiday season? I honestly can't remember.

    December 17th 2019 - 12 days of offers and a sale
    December 18th 2018 - Two very special Honor offerings available for a limited time
    December 20th 2017 - Holiday Sale
    ...

    Not sure how I went after you @Princess Trista, but I feel you're splitting hairs here.

    Whether it's the amount/frequency of freebies or "deals", I still feel a little less entitlement and a little more gratitude would go a long way.

    It's also a bit absurd to think a company doesn't care about making money, particularly during the holiday season. That makes no sense at all.

    I disagree @IceCat. I suggest you're trying to stifle legitimate player feedback, trivialising it as sniping and griping. Thin gruel will not feed and fill everyone to the extent it appears to fill you.

    Here on this forum, WRTP have on these forums the benefit of a huge focus group. This grouping largely has three components.

    One such has already given up on this product, and have forsaken it for others that offer more of what they want - be that a better challenge, be it more responsive interaction with game developers and management, be it a better range of in-game purchases.

    A second constituency loves this product every bit as much as you or anyone else posting here, and as much as anyone who has already left here in silence. But having invested hugely of themselves - their time, their energy, their experience, and perhaps their money also - they have earned the right to raise the issues they experience with WRTP, and choose not to go silently, but to articulate their legitimate grievances. Feedback which fosters growth and enables delivery of that which everyone wants is always positive. This is not entitlement - this is evaluation. I'm sure if you've eaten a poor meal at a restaurant which normally serves you good to fine fare, you've left feedback - or are you content to vote in silence with your feet as you suggest here that others do?

    A third, exemplified perhaps by you yourself, appear happy with whatever comes their way, whenever it comes, if ever. That obviously works for you. Peace out and good luck to you with that.

    Note please
    - no-one to a poster, has once tried to undermine you or your stance on this issue. Please extend to others the same courtesies they do you.
    - one is given 'freebies' by WRTPs largesse. Everyone is grateful for freebies. 'Deals' are paid for - mostly in hard currency. It is generally considered commercially prudent to give people what they want when they articulate a desire for it, and when resources permit. This creates revenue streams, upon which companies grow. It is equally prudent to inform people, when such desires are first articulated, that they cannot be delivered for whatever the reason may be, rather than allow expectation, and the consequent disaffection, to grow.

    Very well said. I think its pretty exhausting when we have people chomping at the bit to take comments completely out of context.

    This really all comes down to people wanting a good/better experience. There are plenty of people on this forum who look at criticism as nothing more than people being spoiled brats, often times they will reply to criticism with “take it or leave it” or even suggest people quit the game entirely. Shocking.

    If this game is to thrive, the criticisms that are consistently being brought up in this forum should be taken seriously. WRTP does not need a white knight to come and bash down people who are expressing concerns.

    I promise that you will not change the minds of the people who are beginning to feel that their investment in this game is no longer an entertaining use of their time. However, if you want this game to continue, you should be on the side of encouraging positive changes to this game. In this case, people are asking for better deals to spend money on, thereby increasing the revenues of this company. In what dimension is that a bad thing for a gaming platform?
  • *Nomad* {PoF}*Nomad* {PoF} ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2020
    Please change Tilting Point to Bah Humbug. No Christmas deals??? Except for a 10% Dil deal? OMG TP, you missed out on an opportunity from many players. I guess you are looking for an investment that will lose money? 12 Days of Deals was really nice last year, but this year was the games worst year imo. Evidently TP truly is Scrooge

    At least I can say Merry Christmas to everyone. Or Happy Holidays. Or Season's Greetings. But I won't say that to TP/WRG

    Princess Tristmas

    Dear TP:
    sy80ofhs6ed9.png
    :)
    Founding ADM - PoF family of fleets (POF, POF2 & POF3) - Dear TP: Non sequitur. Your facts are uncoordinated.
  • MiT SanoaMiT Sanoa ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2020
    It may be that DB had so many deals because money was tight and they wanted to increase revenue for the sale.
    Very likely this.

    That is funny, because everything that TP sells is virtual - it is non-existent. It is made-up or free. So anything they sell is almost pure profit anyway.

    How is that funny? If DB had sold real goods it would have decreased the company's value if they sold off a lot at a low price, which would have been bad for the trade with TP. As the goods are virtual though the generous offers probably had no negative impact on STT's value so DB cashed out on the brand. This makes even more sense in hindsight as DB was broke as we know now.

    /edit: Btw bitcoins are virtual too but they have a huge value and are expensive to produce by now.
    Wir, die Mirror Tribbles [MiT] haben freie Plätze zu vergeben. Kein Zwang und kein Stress, dafür aber Spaß, Discord und eine nette, hilfsbereite Gemeinschaft, incl. voll ausgebauter Starbase und täglich 700 ISM.
  • SoupKitchen RikerSoupKitchen Riker ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2020
    Oomox wrote: »
    robownage wrote: »
    ...

    I'm unclear as to why someone being content with the product needs to be a bad thing?

    While I accept the logic of your argument, I fail to understand why the counter argument is so threatening. I counter that those who argue for improvement are not a threat, and that those putting down the opinions of those arguing for improvement, do little to enhance the counter-argument. 'Good enough' is not always sufficient.
    robownage wrote: »
    I'm generally a pretty positive person, so I'm more likely to come in and defend something than to go and attack it. I appreciate that they have a business to run and just because I don't understand their decisions, doesn't mean that there isn't a logic to them and that they should be derided.

    Good. I too am quite a positive person. However, when my abundant goodwill is neglected and taken for granted, and when and if it is put to me that I have both temerity and gall to protest, then I will not suffer in silence.
    robownage wrote: »
    I would also point out that we are customers, not investors. We aren't owed explanations.

    Quite to the contrary, customers are not sheep. They, and their loyalty are assets, and they have rights as consumers. They deserve better treatment for their fidelity and goodwill. When product lines are announced, and then deadlines for delivery slip, customers need to be informed. I am sure you yourself wouldn't accept this kind of treatment (at least I hope you wouldn't) from the company that manufactures your car, who built your home, who provide your utilities, who you have paid for your education, or that of your children. If these service providers suddenly changed established patterns of behaviour - perhaps for perfectly justifiable operational reasons - you would want to be informed. You would not be silent. Quite to the contrary, you'd be deservedly very vocal. WRTP are not exceptions here.
    robownage wrote: »
    Communication is a powerful tool for a company, but it is not always viable for any number of reasons (such as contracts, or being away for a long weekend). If we don't like the product, or the company behind it, as customers we are perfectly entitled to take our money elsewhere.

    Communication is also a two way street. This feedback is part of the process informing WRTP that a significant and growing proportion of their customer base is disaffected, disenchanted, and bored. They are feeling they have been taken for granted, and they want - need - better; better communication first off. And to follow, a better gaming experience.
    robownage wrote: »
    And while there is absolutely nothing wrong with providing feedback, we are not entitled to start attacking those around us who differ in opinion, however.

    I quite agree. Would that others with your viewpoint share that philosophy, then this dialogue would proceed much more smoothly.
    robownage wrote: »
    We're definitely used to having deals at Christmas time, and while it's disappointing on TP's part to not have anything interesting this year, they've also suggested that something big is coming for Convergence Day, which is in less than a month.

    Again, I defer back to your point about communication. Suggestion is teasing. Communicate intention clearly and in a timely manner. If something happens that causes that intention to be delayed, shelved, binned or repackaged, communicate that in a clear and timely manner too. Treat your customers like adults. They do not need the operational minutiae behind such problems. They do want to know, and are largely content to know that on account of unforeseen problems, something promised and sought after was unfortunately delayed, shelved, binned or repackaged.
    robownage wrote: »
    They might have felt that having two big events in such a short span wasn't beneficial to their bottom line. IMO, this is far more likely than TP having decided it doesn't want our money, so that's the conclusion that I have chosen to jump to.

    Again, clear communication from WRTP here would have helped enormously.

    trop3jthw5lx.gif

    Agreed.

    Offering criticism related to the game and enjoying the game are not mutually exclusive actions. People can be both thankful for what TP has done and also disappointed when players feel TP does not live up to expectations.


    “A committee is a cul-de-sac, down which good ideas are lured and quietly strangled.” —Mark TwainMEMBER: [BoB] Barrel of Bloodwine... We are recruiting and putting the “curv” in scurvy! Best Event Finish: #3 Honor Debt: Inconceivable...Honor Bank Account: Slowly building...
  • ThurthoradThurthorad ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think I may be the only one then who thinks that more deals is not the recipe for success many of you think it is. The product is already devalued enormously as TP has sought to the sell us more for less rather than keep the quality high and the price steady. There's already an enormous issue around the low value of premium packs and citations. I mean they've been selling citations for $5, that makes the double deal seem like a mugs game.

    Give me a regular stream of things to do and a good reason to keep buying and you won't need to discount it for me.
  • I only spend money on this game when there is a sale. So if there is no sale, it doesn't bother me as it doesn't cost me anything. I don't lose any money, nor does TP make any.
  • IceCatIceCat ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thank you, @DScottHewitt. It is good to hear that.

    @Oomox, if you honestly believe I am trying to stifle legitimate player feedback, I'm not sure what to tell you. I have posted numerous times that constructive criticism should be welcomed.

    The problem is a lot of the feedback tends to lean towards the "gimme gimme" or "DBWRGTP are awful/crooks/the Grinch who stole Christmas" variety. My issue isn't with people being unhappy or giving honest feedback. It's that usually it's either:

    • unproductive, giving no real alternatives or solutions that would make these players happy
    • totally out of line, personal attacks towards the company and/or its staff

    As for your three types of players, I think you've made some interesting points. I am however confused about some parts.

    Firstly, you yourself have said you were leaving the game, which would put you into your own category 1. Yet, here you are, repeatedly coming back.

    Secondly, I'm not sure why you think I fall into category 3, as I have stated repeatedly that I have brought plenty of concerns/issues to the attention of their staff/support. I am not Team TP or on their "side" by any means.

    Again, I have no issues with real feedback, which will help the game improve and grow. I commend the majority of those who would fall into your second category. It's the pits of entitlement and negativity I don't care for. And they are more plentiful than you seem to think.

    @Cpt_insano_2k1 I am not sure if you're including me in the "people chomping at the bit to take comments completely out of context" line, since you quoted part of what I said in that post. If so, please let me know how you feel I have done so.

    To address your other points, I would refer you to my comments above. I agree that we all want a better experience and to have our criticisms heard. But they will only listen if we do so in a productive and constructive manner. Nothing gets our messaged tuned out like personal attacks and unhelpful whining.

    I think we are on the same page in that neither of us wants this game to fail or lose more players. I also think we would both agree that increased revenue for the company would encourage more growth/stability for this game's long-term future. I don't think anyone wants people to quit or this game to cease to exist.

    @robownage, I'd like to thank you for expressing a lot of what I've been thinking, particularly regarding the communication and deals being offered. Please continue to bring your positive, insightful thoughts to this forum.

    I hope that this addresses/clears up some of the issues/my perspective about them, that we are all facing. As the care packages we keep receiving say, we are all in this together. 🖖
  • Dirk GundersonDirk Gunderson ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thurthorad wrote: »
    I think I may be the only one then who thinks that more deals is not the recipe for success many of you think it is. The product is already devalued enormously as TP has sought to the sell us more for less rather than keep the quality high and the price steady. There's already an enormous issue around the low value of premium packs and citations. I mean they've been selling citations for $5, that makes the double deal seem like a mugs game.

    Give me a regular stream of things to do and a good reason to keep buying and you won't need to discount it for me.

    That raises a question I don’t think we’ve really tackled as a community: if the Game Mechanics Genie granted us our wish to completely rebuild the portal system to give us multiple smaller pools broken down by release date, would we end up getting more of the less-exciting deals like the one we had over the weekend or, Great Bird of the Galaxy forbid, universally reviled offers like Sail The Starry Skies instead of the dilithium and pack deals we’ve seen over the last year or two?

    IceCat wrote: »
    Again, I have no issues with real feedback, which will help the game improve and grow. I commend the majority of those who would fall into your second category. It's the pits of entitlement and negativity I don't care for. And they are more plentiful than you seem to think.

    The forum only lets me awesome things once...if I could do that more than once, it’d be for this comment. You, sir/madam/whatever, have been a breath of fresh air here on the forum. While we all have moments where frustration gets the better of us, these instances should be the exception, not the expectation.
  • IceCatIceCat ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2020
    Thurthorad wrote: »
    I think I may be the only one then who thinks that more deals is not the recipe for success many of you think it is. The product is already devalued enormously as TP has sought to the sell us more for less rather than keep the quality high and the price steady. There's already an enormous issue around the low value of premium packs and citations. I mean they've been selling citations for $5, that makes the double deal seem like a mugs game.

    Give me a regular stream of things to do and a good reason to keep buying and you won't need to discount it for me.

    That raises a question I don’t think we’ve really tackled as a community: if the Game Mechanics Genie granted us our wish to completely rebuild the portal system to give us multiple smaller pools broken down by release date, would we end up getting more of the less-exciting deals like the one we had over the weekend or, Great Bird of the Galaxy forbid, universally reviled offers like Sail The Starry Skies instead of the dilithium and pack deals we’ve seen over the last year or two?

    IceCat wrote: »
    Again, I have no issues with real feedback, which will help the game improve and grow. I commend the majority of those who would fall into your second category. It's the pits of entitlement and negativity I don't care for. And they are more plentiful than you seem to think.

    The forum only lets me awesome things once...if I could do that more than once, it’d be for this comment. You, sir/madam/whatever, have been a breath of fresh air here on the forum. While we all have moments where frustration gets the better of us, these instances should be the exception, not the expectation.

    Thank you, @Dirk Gunderson . Your comments are most appreciated 🙂 I am doing my best to try to be the change I want to see (props and credit to Gandhi 😉), even if I do too slip sometimes and succumb to petty snark 🤪

    Much respect as well for the pronoun awareness (sir, for what it's worth lol). As we've seen with Adira, this is a sensitive issue for a lot of people here, and the respect/empathy for others is appreciated. 🖖

    In regard to the portal, that is a rather interesting conundrum you've raised. I think for a lot of people, particularly those deeper in the game, the sheer number of crew in the portal is overwhelming. It is near impossible to get all the crew, just due to the sheer luck factor involved alone.

    Also, nothing is quite so frustrating as the all frozen/maxed beholds, or seemingly infinite copies of unneeded crew, while struggling to get your first of one you don't have.

    Maybe it is time for a real, serious discussion about overhauling the portal mechanics itself. Maybe just like gauntlet has a merit based "reroll", the portal could have something similar for all maxed beholds.

    This way people couldn't abuse it just for "bad" crew until they hit a tier 1, but they could still reroll for an actual crew/star they don't have. Something to consider, perhaps?
This discussion has been closed.