Well, if whales are actually sentient, and they seem to be in the plot and later Easter eggs, she's the closest thing to a physician they have.
I'm not going to get into the whole messed up Physician Trait again in depth. But, if she should have it for studying whales and Agnes has it for studying synthetic beings, then it needs to be applied better to people who are actually medical doctors.
What if I told you not every single nit needs to be picked literally to death?
If they could go back to the 20th century on purpose to pick up whales, they could go back to the 20th century on purpose to return Gillian.
*ducks*
As an aside, I don't understand why Victor Fries goes by Mr. Freeze instead of Dr. Freeze. Maybe the people of Gotham City would show him a little more respect. If I had a doctorate, you better believe I'd incorporate that into my supervillain name.
If they could go back to the 20th century on purpose to pick up whales, they could go back to the 20th century on purpose to return Gillian.
*ducks*
As an aside, I don't understand why Victor Fries goes by Mr. Freeze instead of Dr. Freeze. Maybe the people of Gotham City would show him a little more respect. If I had a doctorate, you better believe I'd incorporate that into my supervillain name.
Except Dark Ages McCoy, Recovering Spock, Commander Chekov, and Professor Scott are all missing the Displaced trait. They went back in time to get a whale to save the future.
While 2024 Picard and Raffi have the trait for going back in time to change an event to save the future.
If they could go back to the 20th century on purpose to pick up whales, they could go back to the 20th century on purpose to return Gillian.
*ducks*
As an aside, I don't understand why Victor Fries goes by Mr. Freeze instead of Dr. Freeze. Maybe the people of Gotham City would show him a little more respect. If I had a doctorate, you better believe I'd incorporate that into my supervillain name.
So you are not already a super villain? or you don't have a doctorate?
If they could go back to the 20th century on purpose to pick up whales, they could go back to the 20th century on purpose to return Gillian.
*ducks*
As an aside, I don't understand why Victor Fries goes by Mr. Freeze instead of Dr. Freeze. Maybe the people of Gotham City would show him a little more respect. If I had a doctorate, you better believe I'd incorporate that into my supervillain name.
Except Dark Ages McCoy, Recovering Spock, Commander Chekov, and Professor Scott are all missing the Displaced trait. They went back in time to get a whale to save the future.
ST IV Crew do not count as they had a way back home via the slingshot method?
The same reason you don't have Dr Lizard or Dr Manbat
WRG just need to make it clearer on what makes the cut & doesnt. Refine the qualifications needed to stop the endless bickering
Some characters from the same episode appear whilst others don't. You cannot mix up the 2 stated qualifications to back up your choice. Only one applies unless there are very exceptional circumstances
If they could go back to the 20th century on purpose to pick up whales, they could go back to the 20th century on purpose to return Gillian.
*ducks*
As an aside, I don't understand why Victor Fries goes by Mr. Freeze instead of Dr. Freeze. Maybe the people of Gotham City would show him a little more respect. If I had a doctorate, you better believe I'd incorporate that into my supervillain name.
Except Dark Ages McCoy, Recovering Spock, Commander Chekov, and Professor Scott are all missing the Displaced trait. They went back in time to get a whale to save the future.
I think the real point of dissension stems from the difference between intentional and unintentional time travel, and that displaced means erroneous; that is, a displaced person or item is put somewhere/when in error. They/it do not belong there, and they did not choose to be displaced.
When the characters choose to conduct a time travel expedition, they know they will be in a different time, whether they have a way back or not. And let's face it, how many times have any of these time travels ever resulted in the crew remaining in the wrong time? They always find a way back to the "right" time, even if that time is different than the one they started in, but is accepted as the right time.
I could use Molly O'Brien as an example: she falls back in time due to an anomaly, the team finds a way to retrieve her, but, the story requires her to be returned to the past. Thus, Molly is displaced from the O'Brien's timeline, but she is in her proper timeline in the end.
Thinking about it more, I think this is the missing piece.
crew who unintentionally arrives in an alternate timeline
.
So the Picard season 2 crew are not Displaced because they traveled back to 2024. They're displaced because they were in the alternate future and still live in that timeline until they fix the past. General Picard would also be displaced even before the time travel.
Similarly, the Year of Hell crew are in an alternate timeline from the prime show timeline. Even if they're in their correct time, it's an alternate timeline based on the Krenim ship.
But that does mean the First Contact crew should all be displaced. They started in the altered Borg future before traveling back in time to fix history.
I have to think what that should mean for Gaia Odo, Author Jake, Lorain, and Rogue Harry.
I don't know if there has ever been an official stance on traits with regard to a couple of aspects.
-Is it a description or a definition/rule (everyone who has 'displaced' can be described this way but not everyone who meets those qualifications is necessarily displaced).
-In general, is the intention of traits to cover all aspects of a character (which is where the community likes to point out the 'missing' traits) or are there other considerations (like gameplay) that are allowable (such as so and so could have veteran but it would mean more than intended paths to completing the collection or we only want so many crew to be able to complete this node)?
-In general, is the intention of traits to cover all aspects of a character (which is where the community likes to point out the 'missing' traits) or are there other considerations (like gameplay) that are allowable (such as so and so could have veteran but it would mean more than intended paths to completing the collection or we only want so many crew to be able to complete this node)?
I recall asking Ben this and he said that they just try to get the traits right (no citation. Many, many Q&As, sorry) and in the last trait audit they said, "Our goals were to apply trait changes as authentically and consistently as possible; adding value where possible and reducing the amount of low value traits."
-In general, is the intention of traits to cover all aspects of a character (which is where the community likes to point out the 'missing' traits) or are there other considerations (like gameplay) that are allowable (such as so and so could have veteran but it would mean more than intended paths to completing the collection or we only want so many crew to be able to complete this node)?
I recall asking Ben this and he said that they just try to get the traits right (no citation. Many, many Q&As, sorry) and in the last trait audit they said, "Our goals were to apply trait changes as authentically and consistently as possible; adding value where possible and reducing the amount of low value traits."
I think there is a second part of it that got hinted at too. When discussing large collections he mentioned needing to think about rewards and tier levels. I imagine they don't want to go and add a trait to an extra 20 cards and increasing an existing collection pool because that could make it too easy. And certainly removing a trait from an existing card complicates the collection.
That's why I wish they would listen to all this feedback in advance. It's much easier to fix who should be displaced and size the collection tiers accordingly before the collection launched. Now they need to consider what would happen to fix things after the fact.
-In general, is the intention of traits to cover all aspects of a character (which is where the community likes to point out the 'missing' traits) or are there other considerations (like gameplay) that are allowable (such as so and so could have veteran but it would mean more than intended paths to completing the collection or we only want so many crew to be able to complete this node)?
I recall asking Ben this and he said that they just try to get the traits right (no citation. Many, many Q&As, sorry) and in the last trait audit they said, "Our goals were to apply trait changes as authentically and consistently as possible; adding value where possible and reducing the amount of low value traits."
I think there is a second part of it that got hinted at too. When discussing large collections he mentioned needing to think about rewards and tier levels. I imagine they don't want to go and add a trait to an extra 20 cards and increasing an existing collection pool because that could make it too easy. And certainly removing a trait from an existing card complicates the collection.
Yeah, he had mentioned concerns about game balance, ie: not making too many incredibly powerful cards and not overloading a collection.
ST IV Crew do not count as they had a way back home via the slingshot method?
I was making a mostly tongue-in-cheek point about Gillian, but that's the basis of it. The movie is predicated on the idea they can go back and forth between time at will. Taking that a step further than where the movie ends, it's implicit that she was just one intentional slingshot-ting taxi ride away from home if she wanted to go back.
The same reason you don't have Dr Lizard or Dr Manbat
They sell themselves short. It's sad, really. I hope they work on their self-esteem.
WRG just need to make it clearer
That's the thesis of 82% of every thread on this forum.
-In general, is the intention of traits to cover all aspects of a character (which is where the community likes to point out the 'missing' traits) or are there other considerations (like gameplay) that are allowable (such as so and so could have veteran but it would mean more than intended paths to completing the collection or we only want so many crew to be able to complete this node)?
I recall asking Ben this and he said that they just try to get the traits right (no citation. Many, many Q&As, sorry) and in the last trait audit they said, "Our goals were to apply trait changes as authentically and consistently as possible; adding value where possible and reducing the amount of low value traits."
Something to keep in mind: Retrieval. Setting aside species traits, there are 25 traits with a pool of fewer than ten crew. All but one has at least one 5*. They're otherwise worthless, but in this one area those traits can be highly valuable.
Automated Unit - 2
Bartender - 7
Clone - 8
Control - 2
Courier - 8
Dahar Master - 3
Exomicologist - 5 (all variants of Stamets, each of who has at least one unique additional trait)
Gardener - 7
Geologist - 4
High Command - 5 (if you don't scroll all the way down, it looks like the trait is just High and if they ever make McCoy from "City on the Edge of Forever", he should have that)
We were told that 'game balance' is not the issue with the missing traits. In regards to collections, I asked if there's an upper limit to the size of collections they'll add and he said
When we were first starting to do a collection every month, we were kinda tinkering around with that and we'd do some collections that were smaller, less than 20, and then we'd do some that were 120. What we're trying to do now, or at least a little more of a focus is trying to keep them on the smaller side.
There are a bunch of crew that currently are not in collections, but I think we want to try to keep them a little more on the smaller side so you get a little more reward for targeting specific crew. That's not set in stone, too. I'm thinking every few months I'm sure we'll have a collection release that's a little more generous with a little bigger pool. But we just want to try to give more value to all crew.
In the previous Q&A, I asked
Do new crew have their traits tailored with crew retrieval in mind or are they always made to be as faithful to the episode as possible?
and he answered
We try to be as authentic as we can to the crew, to the show.
They have yet to say either in a public appearance or in an official release that they withhold traits for game balance. And I have to imagine that if that's what they were doing, they would say so in order to easily, sweepingly address trait inconsistencies as it would save them a lot of time to ignore the issue.
Instead, they've repeatedly said they want to be authentic to the episode, have done several trait tweaks in addition to a large audit, and they've said that they intend do continue trait audits as time allows.
ST IV Crew do not count as they had a way back home via the slingshot method?
I was making a mostly tongue-in-cheek point about Gillian, but that's the basis of it. The movie is predicated on the idea they can go back and forth between time at will. Taking that a step further than where the movie ends, it's implicit that she was just one intentional slingshot-ting taxi ride away from home if she wanted to go back.
The same reason you don't have Dr Lizard or Dr Manbat
They sell themselves short. It's sad, really. I hope they work on their self-esteem.
WRG just need to make it clearer
That's the thesis of 82% of every thread on this forum.
My take on the whole "Wonderland Taylor" thing is she was NOT "Displaced" in that scene. No power to use the transporter to send her back? {Even though you are about to slingshot around the Sun at Warp Seven?} Toss her intruder **tsk tsk** down the ramp so hard she bounces. You do NOT "have" to take her with you to her future.
What if I told you not every single nit needs to be picked literally to death?
Why can't they do simple new collections like Movies & Bajorans
Bajorans is way overdue for sure. And there should be a good amount to start a Movie Collection. If I counted right on the Wiki page, we have 35 Movie Crew already.
Why can't they do simple new collections like Movies & Bajorans
Bajorans is way overdue for sure. And there should be a good amount to start a Movie Collection. If I counted right on the Wiki page, we have 35 Movie Crew
Why can't they do simple new collections like Movies & Bajorans
Bajorans is way overdue for sure. And there should be a good amount to start a Movie Collection. If I counted right on the Wiki page, we have 35 Movie Crew
Just at a glance it is pretty incomplete;
B4
Colonel Worf
HMS Pinafore Data
There are over 100, plus the upcoming Taylor
And if you really wanna go there, Human Neelix
By my count, there are 104 (56 TOS/47 TNG). They're so evenly balanced I think they'd support two collections. That excludes Human Neelix. I will never understand turning the maître d' into a Timelines Original Neelix variant--particularly since the flavor text only describes the First Contact character.
Why can't they do simple new collections like Movies & Bajorans
Bajorans is way overdue for sure. And there should be a good amount to start a Movie Collection. If I counted right on the Wiki page, we have 35 Movie Crew
Just at a glance it is pretty incomplete;
B4
Colonel Worf
HMS Pinafore Data
There are over 100, plus the upcoming Taylor
And if you really wanna go there, Human Neelix
Weird. B4 is listed on the "Crew by Show/Movie" List. But the other two are missing there, too.
What if I told you not every single nit needs to be picked literally to death?
Why can't they do simple new collections like Movies & Bajorans
Bajorans is way overdue for sure. And there should be a good amount to start a Movie Collection. If I counted right on the Wiki page, we have 35 Movie Crew
Just at a glance it is pretty incomplete;
B4
Colonel Worf
HMS Pinafore Data
There are over 100, plus the upcoming Taylor
And if you really wanna go there, Human Neelix
Weird. B4 is listed on the "Crew by Show/Movie" List. But the other two are missing there, too.
Just noticed that all are included in the text list, just not the avatars
For some strange reason
Why can't they do simple new collections like Movies & Bajorans
Bajorans is way overdue for sure. And there should be a good amount to start a Movie Collection. If I counted right on the Wiki page, we have 35 Movie Crew
Just at a glance it is pretty incomplete;
B4
Colonel Worf
HMS Pinafore Data
There are over 100, plus the upcoming Taylor
And if you really wanna go there, Human Neelix
Weird. B4 is listed on the "Crew by Show/Movie" List. But the other two are missing there, too.
Just noticed that all are included in the text list, just not the avatars
For some strange reason
I believe that the Wiki gets updated and added to over time. That page is maybe still a WiP.
What if I told you not every single nit needs to be picked literally to death?
Why can't they do simple new collections like Movies & Bajorans
Bajorans is way overdue for sure. And there should be a good amount to start a Movie Collection. If I counted right on the Wiki page, we have 35 Movie Crew
Just at a glance it is pretty incomplete;
B4
Colonel Worf
HMS Pinafore Data
There are over 100, plus the upcoming Taylor
And if you really wanna go there, Human Neelix
Weird. B4 is listed on the "Crew by Show/Movie" List. But the other two are missing there, too.
Just noticed that all are included in the text list, just not the avatars
For some strange reason
I believe that the Wiki gets updated and added to over time. That page is maybe still a WiP.
The wiki does indeed get updated and added to over time on a regular basis, e.g. weekly event pages. For specific errors or missing data, perhaps posting in the dedicated thread for wiki edits might be more helpful:
All I know is that having the displaced trait on some of my FF/FE disco crew made the event just ended very easy for me. I hit max threshold 4 1/2 hours into the event, with Resistance Burnham and Returning Saru doing 99% of the work.
Maybe they shouldn't get it after they have "settled" down in the future, like officially joined Starfleet there?
There's really zero reason why a trait is absent on some variants when it's an intrinsic part of that character. As an example, Gabriel Bell has the Chef trait because Sisko is a chef. But not all Sisko variants have that trait. In fact, most don't. Only 7 out of 19 Benjamin Siskos have the Chef trait. But they're all Chefs. There was never a point in DS9 before Sisko was a Chef. And yet some have it, some don't. You might think it would be there in variants whose episodes had some relevance to him being a Chef. But they don't. Gabriel Bell being an example. At no point in those two episodes is there any scenes depicting Sisko cooking anything or his being an experienced Chef being brought up in any capacity.
So tl;dr: Don't expect much. In fact, don't have any expectations when it comes to traits. You'll save your sanity.
Maybe they shouldn't get it after they have "settled" down in the future, like officially joined Starfleet there?
There's really zero reason why a trait is absent on some variants when it's an intrinsic part of that character. As an example, Gabriel Bell has the Chef trait because Sisko is a chef. But not all Sisko variants have that trait. In fact, most don't. Only 7 out of 19 Benjamin Siskos have the Chef trait. But they're all Chefs. There was never a point in DS9 before Sisko was a Chef. And yet some have it, some don't. You might think it would be there in variants whose episodes had some relevance to him being a Chef. But they don't. Gabriel Bell being an example. At no point in those two episodes is there any scenes depicting Sisko cooking anything or his being an experienced Chef being brought up in any capacity.
So tl;dr: Don't expect much. In fact, don't have any expectations when it comes to traits. You'll save your sanity.
Gabriel Bell prepared the meals in the Sanctuary District during the stand-off?
I definitely feel like the Displaced Trait is somewhat displaced as regards some Crew......
What if I told you not every single nit needs to be picked literally to death?
Comments
I'm not going to get into the whole messed up Physician Trait again in depth. But, if she should have it for studying whales and Agnes has it for studying synthetic beings, then it needs to be applied better to people who are actually medical doctors.
*ducks*
As an aside, I don't understand why Victor Fries goes by Mr. Freeze instead of Dr. Freeze. Maybe the people of Gotham City would show him a little more respect. If I had a doctorate, you better believe I'd incorporate that into my supervillain name.
Except Dark Ages McCoy, Recovering Spock, Commander Chekov, and Professor Scott are all missing the Displaced trait. They went back in time to get a whale to save the future.
While 2024 Picard and Raffi have the trait for going back in time to change an event to save the future.
So you are not already a super villain? or you don't have a doctorate?
The same reason you don't have Dr Lizard or Dr Manbat ST IV Crew do not count as they had a way back home via the slingshot method?
The same reason you don't have Dr Lizard or Dr Manbat
WRG just need to make it clearer on what makes the cut & doesnt. Refine the qualifications needed to stop the endless bickering
Some characters from the same episode appear whilst others don't. You cannot mix up the 2 stated qualifications to back up your choice. Only one applies unless there are very exceptional circumstances
The Picard crew had the Borg Queen
When the characters choose to conduct a time travel expedition, they know they will be in a different time, whether they have a way back or not. And let's face it, how many times have any of these time travels ever resulted in the crew remaining in the wrong time? They always find a way back to the "right" time, even if that time is different than the one they started in, but is accepted as the right time.
I could use Molly O'Brien as an example: she falls back in time due to an anomaly, the team finds a way to retrieve her, but, the story requires her to be returned to the past. Thus, Molly is displaced from the O'Brien's timeline, but she is in her proper timeline in the end.
So the Picard season 2 crew are not Displaced because they traveled back to 2024. They're displaced because they were in the alternate future and still live in that timeline until they fix the past. General Picard would also be displaced even before the time travel.
Similarly, the Year of Hell crew are in an alternate timeline from the prime show timeline. Even if they're in their correct time, it's an alternate timeline based on the Krenim ship.
But that does mean the First Contact crew should all be displaced. They started in the altered Borg future before traveling back in time to fix history.
I have to think what that should mean for Gaia Odo, Author Jake, Lorain, and Rogue Harry.
-Is it a description or a definition/rule (everyone who has 'displaced' can be described this way but not everyone who meets those qualifications is necessarily displaced).
-In general, is the intention of traits to cover all aspects of a character (which is where the community likes to point out the 'missing' traits) or are there other considerations (like gameplay) that are allowable (such as so and so could have veteran but it would mean more than intended paths to completing the collection or we only want so many crew to be able to complete this node)?
I recall asking Ben this and he said that they just try to get the traits right (no citation. Many, many Q&As, sorry) and in the last trait audit they said, "Our goals were to apply trait changes as authentically and consistently as possible; adding value where possible and reducing the amount of low value traits."
I think there is a second part of it that got hinted at too. When discussing large collections he mentioned needing to think about rewards and tier levels. I imagine they don't want to go and add a trait to an extra 20 cards and increasing an existing collection pool because that could make it too easy. And certainly removing a trait from an existing card complicates the collection.
That's why I wish they would listen to all this feedback in advance. It's much easier to fix who should be displaced and size the collection tiers accordingly before the collection launched. Now they need to consider what would happen to fix things after the fact.
Yeah, he had mentioned concerns about game balance, ie: not making too many incredibly powerful cards and not overloading a collection.
Depends on who you ask and nope, respectively.
I was making a mostly tongue-in-cheek point about Gillian, but that's the basis of it. The movie is predicated on the idea they can go back and forth between time at will. Taking that a step further than where the movie ends, it's implicit that she was just one intentional slingshot-ting taxi ride away from home if she wanted to go back.
They sell themselves short. It's sad, really. I hope they work on their self-esteem.
That's the thesis of 82% of every thread on this forum.
Something to keep in mind: Retrieval. Setting aside species traits, there are 25 traits with a pool of fewer than ten crew. All but one has at least one 5*. They're otherwise worthless, but in this one area those traits can be highly valuable.
In the previous Q&A, I asked
and he answered
They have yet to say either in a public appearance or in an official release that they withhold traits for game balance. And I have to imagine that if that's what they were doing, they would say so in order to easily, sweepingly address trait inconsistencies as it would save them a lot of time to ignore the issue.
Instead, they've repeatedly said they want to be authentic to the episode, have done several trait tweaks in addition to a large audit, and they've said that they intend do continue trait audits as time allows.
My take on the whole "Wonderland Taylor" thing is she was NOT "Displaced" in that scene. No power to use the transporter to send her back? {Even though you are about to slingshot around the Sun at Warp Seven?} Toss her intruder **tsk tsk** down the ramp so hard she bounces. You do NOT "have" to take her with you to her future.
Bajorans is way overdue for sure. And there should be a good amount to start a Movie Collection. If I counted right on the Wiki page, we have 35 Movie Crew already.
https://sttwiki.org/wiki/Category:Star_Trek:_Films
Bajoran Trait is on a mixed page. And I think I just mentioned I am "cloudy" from feeling bad. I know I would mess this count up!
https://sttwiki.org/wiki/Category:Bajoran
B4
Colonel Worf
HMS Pinafore Data
There are over 100, plus the upcoming Taylor
And if you really wanna go there, Human Neelix
By my count, there are 104 (56 TOS/47 TNG). They're so evenly balanced I think they'd support two collections. That excludes Human Neelix. I will never understand turning the maître d' into a Timelines Original Neelix variant--particularly since the flavor text only describes the First Contact character.
Weird. B4 is listed on the "Crew by Show/Movie" List. But the other two are missing there, too.
Just noticed that all are included in the text list, just not the avatars
For some strange reason
I believe that the Wiki gets updated and added to over time. That page is maybe still a WiP.
https://forum.disruptorbeam.com/stt/discussion/694/wiki-edits-that-need-to-be-added#latest
🖖
There's really zero reason why a trait is absent on some variants when it's an intrinsic part of that character. As an example, Gabriel Bell has the Chef trait because Sisko is a chef. But not all Sisko variants have that trait. In fact, most don't. Only 7 out of 19 Benjamin Siskos have the Chef trait. But they're all Chefs. There was never a point in DS9 before Sisko was a Chef. And yet some have it, some don't. You might think it would be there in variants whose episodes had some relevance to him being a Chef. But they don't. Gabriel Bell being an example. At no point in those two episodes is there any scenes depicting Sisko cooking anything or his being an experienced Chef being brought up in any capacity.
So tl;dr: Don't expect much. In fact, don't have any expectations when it comes to traits. You'll save your sanity.
Gabriel Bell prepared the meals in the Sanctuary District during the stand-off?
I definitely feel like the Displaced Trait is somewhat displaced as regards some Crew......