Come to think of it, why had no one after The Undiscovered Country developed a cloaking device that stayed active while firing? That seems like a hell of a thing to leave on the table after General Chang had an operational model.
It wasn't as large an advantage when they realized they could detect it via emissions - the thing's got to have a tailpipe.
Sure, but it would still be a potent first strike weapon. Attack while cloaked to inflict an entirely unexpected blow, then drop the cloak and engage like any other ship.
Which maybe leaves the question of why the Federation didn't use emission tracking as the basis for more reliable cloak detection.
I don't think this is the $64,000 question, but it's surely one on the way to it.
I'm assuming tech continued to progress. And some members of the Federation and Starfleet were less interested in detecting Cloaked ships than they were creating ones that were a new form of cloaking. Also not letting the Treaty of Algernon stand in the way. The phased cloak was one intense idea... May not have had emissions as we understand them.
The phased cloaking device is a great example of experimental Treknology that seems to have been left behind after some shady early use, and I'm glad you brought that up. A lot of what Riker described about then-Captain Pressman on the Pegasus sounds a lot like what we've been seeing from Lorca on the Discovery. Starfleet has a long history of some shady people doing shady things, when you get down to it. Just some offhand examples:
Captain Merik, responsible for the Roman society in "Bread and Circuses"
Federation cultural observer John Gill, responsible for the Nazi society in "Patterns of Force"
Captain Tracey, who became a ruler of an indigenous people to keep his Fountain of Youth in "The Omega Glory"
Garth of Izar, remanded to a mental health facility that he subsequently took over in "Whom Gods Destroy"
Dr. Janice Lester, who swapped bodies with Captain Kirk in order to realize her dream of commanding a starship in "Turnabout Intruder"*
Admiral Doherty, who conspired with the Son'a to plunder Ba'ku in Insurrection
Luther Sloan, Section 31 operative who, among other things, tried to engineer the genocide of the Dominion Founders using a biological weapon unknowingly transmitted through an infected Odo
Let's also not forget that in "Tomorrow Is Yesterday", the Enterprise traveled back in time on purpose as its mission. This was presented as a perfectly routine thing for Starfleet to order.
*In fairness to Dr. Lester, the misogynistic policy against women commanding starships was baffling even within the context of TOS's alleged egalitarianism. This is one element of TOS I'm glad Disco has rejected.
(Not sure Garth should count as frankly mentally ill folks do nutty things. Having a mentally unstable (as in periodically hospitalized) family member I know some of that could be a mental disease vs actual free will. Though what he was locked up for -- maybe, but we'll never see the battle of Axanar to know.)
Agreed. And these things happen in Starfleet. They are not all angels. And lets not forget the folks on the Equinox (really the whole crew was complicit) who basically did the same thing as the Disco crew did except they were killing essentially their spore drive victim rather than tormenting/damaging them.
Which is my other issue. These are all cautionary tales. These are the antagonists, not the protagonists.
Riker is pushed to the limit and sides with Picard and they reveal the phased cloak to the Romulans to try to salvage the treaty.
Janeway and company stop the Equinox from killing more creatures and take some survivors on board--- and they are informed in no uncertain terms that that type of exploitation doesn't fly anymore.
Bashir and O'Brien oppose Sloan who supposedly dies, they get the cure and Odo gives it to the Female Founder and brings the war to an end.
And defending the Ba'ku by opposing Admiral D and the Son'a is the entire plot of Insurrection, which the crew of the Enterprise D and come back for a visit Worf do successfully.
"Captain" Mikey B's face when she saw the Emperor in the hologram........
You mean, this...?
Yes. Anyone who has been complaining about the acting in the show needs to watch that reaction shot on a ten-hour loop......
I would say anyone who has been complaining about the acting in the show needs to watch the first ten episodes of all the other Treks. Even the vaunted TNG ensemble held as the gold standard was significantly more stilted and clumsy by this point in their run. For my money, only the VOY cast seemed to settle in as or more comfortably than this one. (Which is especially impressive given what we've since learned about how tumultuous that set really was.)
"Captain" Mikey B's face when she saw the Emperor in the hologram........
You mean, this...?
Yes. Anyone who has been complaining about the acting in the show needs to watch that reaction shot on a ten-hour loop......
I would say anyone who has been complaining about the acting in the show needs to watch the first ten episodes of all the other Treks. Even the vaunted TNG ensemble held as the gold standard was significantly more stilted and clumsy by this point in their run. For my money, only the VOY cast seemed to settle in as or more comfortably than this one. (Which is especially impressive given what we've since learned about how tumultuous that set really was.)
I agree. A lot of new shows need to find their traction. I've seen some shows that started out terrible, then got a lot better as actors settled into their roles, and fleshed out their characters.......
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
"Captain" Mikey B's face when she saw the Emperor in the hologram........
You mean, this...?
Yes. Anyone who has been complaining about the acting in the show needs to watch that reaction shot on a ten-hour loop......
I would say anyone who has been complaining about the acting in the show needs to watch the first ten episodes of all the other Treks. Even the vaunted TNG ensemble held as the gold standard was significantly more stilted and clumsy by this point in their run. For my money, only the VOY cast seemed to settle in as or more comfortably than this one. (Which is especially impressive given what we've since learned about how tumultuous that set really was.)
Yeah we're talking Farpoint level on the Pilot... course then there were great pilots like Emissary that still hold up .
Have you guys gone “spoiler” button happy or is it just clickbait? These last few posts don’t even come close to spoiling anything unless they cause you to leave the milk outside the fridge while you’re busy clicking the spoiler button...
Have you guys gone “spoiler” button happy or is it just clickbait? These last few posts don’t even come close to spoiling anything unless they cause you to leave the milk outside the fridge while you’re busy clicking the spoiler button...
I dunno about anyone else, but I used it in jest because I didn't see any reason why the posts I was quoting had used them and I figured it was something of a running joke.
"Captain" Mikey B's face when she saw the Emperor in the hologram........
You mean, this...?
Yes. Anyone who has been complaining about the acting in the show needs to watch that reaction shot on a ten-hour loop......
I would say anyone who has been complaining about the acting in the show needs to watch the first ten episodes of all the other Treks. Even the vaunted TNG ensemble held as the gold standard was significantly more stilted and clumsy by this point in their run. For my money, only the VOY cast seemed to settle in as or more comfortably than this one. (Which is especially impressive given what we've since learned about how tumultuous that set really was.)
Yeah we're talking Farpoint level on the Pilot... course then there were great pilots like Emissary that still hold up .
"Emissary" holds up well overall, in part because of the strength of its story. I dunno when you last watched it, but I think if you go back to it, you'll see some stumbling as several cast members were still just trying to figure out who their characters were. In particular, Terry Farrell, Alexander Siddig, and Nana Visitor come to mind, alternately wooden and too forced depending on the nature of their scenes.
That's not meant to be construed as a slam against them. It's almost universally true of pilots and early episodes. Writers are also trying to figure out each character's voice, too. That's another key advantage to DIS, I think. Despite all the delays and the chaos that was reported about getting this off the ground, there's been a clear sense that the writers knew exactly where they were going with everything from the beginning. That's something the other shows, which were episodic rather than serial in nature, didn't have, and that kind of specificity and consistency from one episode to the next is surely advantageous for the actors.
"Captain" Mikey B's face when she saw the Emperor in the hologram........
You mean, this...?
Yes. Anyone who has been complaining about the acting in the show needs to watch that reaction shot on a ten-hour loop......
I would say anyone who has been complaining about the acting in the show needs to watch the first ten episodes of all the other Treks. Even the vaunted TNG ensemble held as the gold standard was significantly more stilted and clumsy by this point in their run. For my money, only the VOY cast seemed to settle in as or more comfortably than this one. (Which is especially impressive given what we've since learned about how tumultuous that set really was.)
Yeah we're talking Farpoint level on the Pilot... course then there were great pilots like Emissary that still hold up .
"Emissary" holds up well overall, in part because of the strength of its story. I dunno when you last watched it, but I think if you go back to it, you'll see some stumbling as several cast members were still just trying to figure out who their characters were. In particular, Terry Farrell, Alexander Siddig, and Nana Visitor come to mind, alternately wooden and too forced depending on the nature of their scenes.
That's not meant to be construed as a slam against them. It's almost universally true of pilots and early episodes. Writers are also trying to figure out each character's voice, too. That's another key advantage to DIS, I think. Despite all the delays and the chaos that was reported about getting this off the ground, there's been a clear sense that the writers knew exactly where they were going with everything from the beginning. That's something the other shows, which were episodic rather than serial in nature, didn't have, and that kind of specificity and consistency from one episode to the next is surely advantageous for the actors.
With the changes in showrunners I disagree that it was apparent from the beginning. This was originally going to be an anthology series with a different cast each season.
Have you guys gone “spoiler” button happy or is it just clickbait? These last few posts don’t even come close to spoiling anything unless they cause you to leave the milk outside the fridge while you’re busy clicking the spoiler button...
I got paranoid. People be all "I did not want to know ahead of time the acting is drab!!!!!"
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
I just finished binging TNG over Christmas after getting the remastered blu Ray. The first season of TNG was as awful as I remember when we watched the premier on a projector screen in the students bar at university. Even the remastered 1080p HD on my home theatre could not save season one from bad scripts, characters and acting... almost every encounter went something like this...
Alien 👽: Leave at once or be destroyed...
Picard: Motions throat cutting to cut audio and prays aliens can’t lip read. Options?
Troi: I sense intense hostility.
Yar/Worf: I recommend full phasers and photon torpedoes.
Riker: I urge caution, we don’t know what we are dealing with.
Picard: nods and turns to viewer. we are on a peaceful mission... Enterprise rocks from being hit by Disruptor bolts
Have you guys gone “spoiler” button happy or is it just clickbait? These last few posts don’t even come close to spoiling anything unless they cause you to leave the milk outside the fridge while you’re busy clicking the spoiler button...
I got paranoid. People be all "I did not want to know ahead of time the acting is drab!!!!!"
Lots and lots of possible (and likely) crew to come from this show! Haters gonna hate, but I'm eager for them. The next season is set to begin in September, I think, so I would guess that we'll get another Disco mega-event in October. That would give a little bit of time for the new season to introduce some folks, plus there are four weekends that month versus five in September.
Comments
(Not sure Garth should count as frankly mentally ill folks do nutty things. Having a mentally unstable (as in periodically hospitalized) family member I know some of that could be a mental disease vs actual free will. Though what he was locked up for -- maybe, but we'll never see the battle of Axanar to know.)
Agreed. And these things happen in Starfleet. They are not all angels. And lets not forget the folks on the Equinox (really the whole crew was complicit) who basically did the same thing as the Disco crew did except they were killing essentially their spore drive victim rather than tormenting/damaging them.
Which is my other issue. These are all cautionary tales. These are the antagonists, not the protagonists.
Riker is pushed to the limit and sides with Picard and they reveal the phased cloak to the Romulans to try to salvage the treaty.
Janeway and company stop the Equinox from killing more creatures and take some survivors on board--- and they are informed in no uncertain terms that that type of exploitation doesn't fly anymore.
Bashir and O'Brien oppose Sloan who supposedly dies, they get the cure and Odo gives it to the Female Founder and brings the war to an end.
And defending the Ba'ku by opposing Admiral D and the Son'a is the entire plot of Insurrection, which the crew of the Enterprise D and come back for a visit Worf do successfully.
I dunno about anyone else, but I used it in jest because I didn't see any reason why the posts I was quoting had used them and I figured it was something of a running joke.
"Emissary" holds up well overall, in part because of the strength of its story. I dunno when you last watched it, but I think if you go back to it, you'll see some stumbling as several cast members were still just trying to figure out who their characters were. In particular, Terry Farrell, Alexander Siddig, and Nana Visitor come to mind, alternately wooden and too forced depending on the nature of their scenes.
That's not meant to be construed as a slam against them. It's almost universally true of pilots and early episodes. Writers are also trying to figure out each character's voice, too. That's another key advantage to DIS, I think. Despite all the delays and the chaos that was reported about getting this off the ground, there's been a clear sense that the writers knew exactly where they were going with everything from the beginning. That's something the other shows, which were episodic rather than serial in nature, didn't have, and that kind of specificity and consistency from one episode to the next is surely advantageous for the actors.
With the changes in showrunners I disagree that it was apparent from the beginning. This was originally going to be an anthology series with a different cast each season.
I got paranoid. People be all "I did not want to know ahead of time the acting is drab!!!!!"
Alien 👽: Leave at once or be destroyed...
Picard: Motions throat cutting to cut audio and prays aliens can’t lip read. Options?
Troi: I sense intense hostility.
Yar/Worf: I recommend full phasers and photon torpedoes.
Riker: I urge caution, we don’t know what we are dealing with.
Picard: nods and turns to viewer. we are on a peaceful mission... Enterprise rocks from being hit by Disruptor bolts
Also will Ash Tyler be getting the Klingon trait?