As much as I would like this scenario, I can't agree.
Remember McDonald's Monopoly? When I was young and uninformed as to how these promotions work, I remember collecting 2 out of 3 stickers for everything in the prize book with the help of my parents' money, including the large prizes, such as the cash prize and the car. We continued to collect and win some of the smaller prizes like free fries and burgers until all that was left were the large prizes. The next time we went to McDonald's, I expected to be able to win one of these prizes because the only pieces I had missing were the ones for the large prizes. Of course, this didn't happen, and I just ended up with duplicates of the stickers that I already had.
I learned a valuable lesson that day which still applies in our fun game here today. McDonald's didn't owe us anything because they hadn't guaranteed us anything. Even though we paid cash we still were only playing for the chance to win something. I also learned that just because I needed a 3rd sticker to win a car, didn't mean that I was going to get it. What did I do with the duplicate stickers? Either saved them for another Monopoly board to begin again, or just threw them away. You know what I didn't do? Complain to McDonald's that I didn't win anything, and demand that they change their policies regarding the game so that it would be easier for me to win, because I had paid cash.
This is all with no McDonald's "beholds," and also with no compensation for the stickers that were duplicates. We get both of these things. Now like I said, of course I would like have a better chance to get what I want. Who wouldn't? I'm just saying that DB has no reason to change their policies, and I don't blame them one bit.
Bad comparison, unless you're saying that McDonalds food isn't useful - I'm inclined to agree it's not much use as food, but there is probably some use. Possibly as rat poison.
As I said, it's not about being 'owed', it is about expectations which are different. If this is a gambling game, fine, make it for over 18s and watch as no one buys anything as you'd have to be nuts to gamble real world cash for a prize of bits that will evaporate when the game is eventually switched off.
It's not a gambling game. Yes, there are gambling aspects, but its not a gambling game and it shouldn't be treated as such.
Surely there is a sane point between players demanding all kinds of goodies and brushing off concerns by stating the game is a glorified casino?
If you're not already used to RNG kicking you in the face and dealing with it (gauntlet crits, voyage drops, shuttle fails, arena evasion, as well as 10x packs) then this may not be the game for you.
God I hate this argument. I tell you what, Marko. If you aren't already used to people trying to offer up solutions that would make the game more fun for them, maybe the FORUMS aren't the place for you. Who cares about your bend over, take it and be happy routine? Not this VIP20+
If DB would do the portal updates every 2 months as was originally promised, that would also reduce the likelihood of FF Beholds.
I like the idea of giving the option of a shuffle or choosing to take bonus honor. Like, if they're all FF you get honor for all 3 or have the choice of respinning.
Another reason I like my plan - The version where we add the reshuffle option to EVERY behold - is that it's very egalitarian. Everyone from new players to whales would have the same option to reshuffle. It wouldn't favor the whales.
Given that this is a card collecting game, I tend to compare it to card collecting. Every time a pack of cards is purchased, the outcome is unknown, so it's a 'gamble' that creates longer odds as you near completion of your set.
The main difference is the ability to manage your duplicate cards. Offline, you can sell or trade duplicates. In the game, the only option is dumping for honor, but the exchange rate (ie: 90:1 for a Super Rare card) is incredibly out of whack, especially when compared to offline card collecting. Yes, you may pay a premium when trading a duplicate card for a desired card of equal value, but nothing close to a 90:1 ratio.
That's why I personally think the best solution would be for DB to improve the trade-in value of all duplicate cards, making it easier to acquire a citation for the equivalent level of duplicate card you're trading in. Even a 20:1 or 50:1 ratio would be an improvement from the current 90:1 ratio for SR, without feeling like DB was being too generous.
When comparing to IRL card collections you forget one important thing. Honor can be used to create new cards, not just trade existing common ones. Very common cards have no value in IRL trades and very rare cards cannot be created out of them. Nobody is willing to switch even 1000 very common cards to a very rare one. Rarity is what makes them valuable. So honor mechanism would IRL totally inflate any card collection game.
Given that this is a card collecting game, I tend to compare it to card collecting. Every time a pack of cards is purchased, the outcome is unknown, so it's a 'gamble' that creates longer odds as you near completion of your set.
The main difference is the ability to manage your duplicate cards. Offline, you can sell or trade duplicates. In the game, the only option is dumping for honor, but the exchange rate (ie: 90:1 for a Super Rare card) is incredibly out of whack, especially when compared to offline card collecting. Yes, you may pay a premium when trading a duplicate card for a desired card of equal value, but nothing close to a 90:1 ratio.
That's why I personally think the best solution would be for DB to improve the trade-in value of all duplicate cards, making it easier to acquire a citation for the equivalent level of duplicate card you're trading in. Even a 20:1 or 50:1 ratio would be an improvement from the current 90:1 ratio for SR, without feeling like DB was being too generous.
When comparing to IRL card collections you forget one important thing. Honor can be used to create new cards, not just trade existing common ones. Very common cards have no value in IRL trades and very rare cards cannot be created out of them. Nobody is willing to switch even 1000 very common cards to a very rare one. Rarity is what makes them valuable. So honor mechanism would IRL totally inflate any card collection game.
Actually I've experienced commons to rare, but at a drastically hardcore ratio.
Mostly in the Baseball arena and Football arena, but not the CCG.
Given that this is a card collecting game, I tend to compare it to card collecting. Every time a pack of cards is purchased, the outcome is unknown, so it's a 'gamble' that creates longer odds as you near completion of your set.
The main difference is the ability to manage your duplicate cards. Offline, you can sell or trade duplicates. In the game, the only option is dumping for honor, but the exchange rate (ie: 90:1 for a Super Rare card) is incredibly out of whack, especially when compared to offline card collecting. Yes, you may pay a premium when trading a duplicate card for a desired card of equal value, but nothing close to a 90:1 ratio.
That's why I personally think the best solution would be for DB to improve the trade-in value of all duplicate cards, making it easier to acquire a citation for the equivalent level of duplicate card you're trading in. Even a 20:1 or 50:1 ratio would be an improvement from the current 90:1 ratio for SR, without feeling like DB was being too generous.
When comparing to IRL card collections you forget one important thing. Honor can be used to create new cards, not just trade existing common ones. Very common cards have no value in IRL trades and very rare cards cannot be created out of them. Nobody is willing to switch even 1000 very common cards to a very rare one. Rarity is what makes them valuable. So honor mechanism would IRL totally inflate any card collection game.
I get what you're saying, but I was considering it more for an even swap. Needing to trade 90 duplicate 4* for just 1 4* citation seems a bit steep. You'd need to trade 250 of those duplicate 4* for a single 5* citation, which is so extreme it's essentially a moot point.
I still think there's room for some improvement in the honor exchange rate, without undermining the value of honor or the rarity of 4* and 5* cards.
I run into this all the time with 4 stars. I seriously think the game knows what you have and just throws the same characters at you.
Set up a one-time reroll that you kickoff by paying dilthium. Gives you a chance another chance to get something out of it and DB wins by people wanting to have dilithium lying around just incase.
Dunno why people worry so much about 4 stars. Eventually u get them all in events, reruns, voyages, free packs or merit crew pulls. Honor system for me means only free 5 stars.
Here’s a quick way to resolve the behold “problem”:
Replace beholds with single pulls. No more hurt feelings!
And no more sales and no more game, none of us what that.
What we want is more sales (from us). The counter argument that I accept is that changes like this might mean less sales overall if it encouraged the biggest spenders to spend less.
I'd go even further and say that beholds are the reason to open premium packs, not the cards themselves. I love the choice. It's the very opposite of their normal sales strategy.
Here’s a quick way to resolve the behold “problem”:
Replace beholds with single pulls. No more hurt feelings!
And no more sales and no more game, none of us what that.
What we want is more sales (from us). The counter argument that I accept is that changes like this might mean less sales overall if it encouraged the biggest spenders to spend less.
I am pretty sure increasing odds of getting missing crew will lead to less sales. Since only thing they sell are odds to get crew.
Here’s a quick way to resolve the behold “problem”:
Replace beholds with single pulls. No more hurt feelings!
And no more sales and no more game, none of us what that.
What we want is more sales (from us). The counter argument that I accept is that changes like this might mean less sales overall if it encouraged the biggest spenders to spend less.
I am pretty sure increasing odds of getting missing crew will lead to less sales. Since only thing they sell are odds to get crew.
Not neccesarily. There are quite a few of us who don't sepnd because the odds are too low. Our frustration stems from the fact that we want to give DB our money and get value for it. As DBs marginal cost is zero for any item, this should be a dream scenario. However, if DB reduces their prices to allow us to purchase then they are reducing their prices for those who would have bought anyway, so there is a trade off there.
I guess fundamentally we are querying whether DB is calculating the trade off correctly. Their track record in many areas is dubious and they are a small, badly run outfit, so the query has validity.
It is likely that there is some change somewhere that could make everyone happier. Voyages was an example of this. It was a great addition to the game that also stimulated spending. These discussions are furthering the search for the next idea that is mutually beneficial.
Here’s a quick way to resolve the behold “problem”:
Replace beholds with single pulls. No more hurt feelings!
And no more sales and no more game, none of us what that.
What we want is more sales (from us). The counter argument that I accept is that changes like this might mean less sales overall if it encouraged the biggest spenders to spend less.
I am pretty sure increasing odds of getting missing crew will lead to less sales. Since only thing they sell are odds to get crew.
Not neccesarily. There are quite a few of us who don't sepnd because the odds are too low. Our frustration stems from the fact that we want to give DB our money and get value for it. As DBs marginal cost is zero for any item, this should be a dream scenario. However, if DB reduces their prices to allow us to purchase then they are reducing their prices for those who would have bought anyway, so there is a trade off there.
I guess fundamentally we are querying whether DB is calculating the trade off correctly. Their track record in many areas is dubious and they are a small, badly run outfit, so the query has validity.
It is likely that there is some change somewhere that could make everyone happier. Voyages was an example of this. It was a great addition to the game that also stimulated spending. These discussions are furthering the search for the next idea that is mutually beneficial.
If there is one place where DB has shown attention to detail and an immediate response to issues, it's revenue enhancements. I have no doubt they've run these numbers and determined the current approach is better. Yes, the mini-whales might spend a little more if they got more cards they needed, but the big whales would quickly finish every card in the game, and then every purchase would guarantee the new card they want. The revenue from them would drop off a cliff and that would hurt DB more than the mini-whales current spending.
Here’s a quick way to resolve the behold “problem”:
Replace beholds with single pulls. No more hurt feelings!
And no more sales and no more game, none of us what that.
What we want is more sales (from us). The counter argument that I accept is that changes like this might mean less sales overall if it encouraged the biggest spenders to spend less.
I am pretty sure increasing odds of getting missing crew will lead to less sales. Since only thing they sell are odds to get crew.
I guess fundamentally we are querying whether DB is calculating the trade off correctly. Their track record in many areas is dubious and they are a small, badly run outfit, so the query has validity.
It's happening way too often now, for lots of players.
It's happens to me more often than not these days and it is really frustrating!!!! They absolutely can program it so you do not have three already fully-fused crew to choose from.
Here’s a quick way to resolve the behold “problem”:
Replace beholds with single pulls. No more hurt feelings!
Seems lke they have done that recently. I haven't had a behold in the last few 10-packs I've opened. It's been frustrating so I've stopped buying them for a while. Didn't buy any this last event.
It is a gamble.... and it should be marked as gambling and possible addiction! When you buy packs at target, the seller cannot modify the content of the packs. When you buy DB packs, you know for sure they play trick on you so you buy more packs.
As many people in this threads have said, DB relies /focuses on getting new whales for quick profit instead of maintaining large happy and satisfied user base.
Most of whales in my fleet already left the game.
Certainly we have new bloods and we told them about these, and they didn’t listen and just splurge anyway and half regretting now. This proves how DB just relies on new players.
There are many ways for DB to remedy this.
Many prob won’t work, but at least they should try and do the right thing.
Having players to collect data and show them prove something is wrong is a clear indication that they didn’t do a good job. You should hire ppl and playe the game as players instead of tester and test their sanity.
Thing changes and if you don’t adapt, you die... faster than your peer - which happens to many mobile games
Far too often the wounding sensation of getting a selection of duplicates.
Even if it’s a single refresh or refresh for dilithium it would be better than 200 honor for the wasted pull.
Given that this is a card collecting game, I tend to compare it to card collecting. Every time a pack of cards is purchased, the outcome is unknown, so it's a 'gamble' that creates longer odds as you near completion of your set.
The main difference is the ability to manage your duplicate cards. Offline, you can sell or trade duplicates. In the game, the only option is dumping for honor, but the exchange rate (ie: 90:1 for a Super Rare card) is incredibly out of whack, especially when compared to offline card collecting. Yes, you may pay a premium when trading a duplicate card for a desired card of equal value, but nothing close to a 90:1 ratio.
That's why I personally think the best solution would be for DB to improve the trade-in value of all duplicate cards, making it easier to acquire a citation for the equivalent level of duplicate card you're trading in. Even a 20:1 or 50:1 ratio would be an improvement from the current 90:1 ratio for SR, without feeling like DB was being too generous.
Having the ability to BST duplicate cards, even with DB getting a cut, would be a very interesting addition to the game. However, I don't see it happening for a number of reasons.
That said, I agree that Improving the honor value of at least 5* crew (and maybe 4*) is something that absolutely should be done. The Honor Ratio for 3* crew is 45:1 for a citation; for both 4* and 5* it is the ~90:1 that you mention. This means that for things to be uniform, the honor for both 4* and 5* crew should be doubled (400 and 1100, respectively).
I wouldn't even mind if you get the first refresh free, and have to pay, say 5 or 10 dils for a second time if you don't get what you want the first refresh. Max 2 refreshes though, we can't be too greedy!
For me, I have almost all the SR cards, so I only do pulls from event rewards now, and the rare super special offer for 15 or more 10x pulls +dils+chrons+etc. looking for 5* cards.
Here’s a quick way to resolve the behold “problem”:
Replace beholds with single pulls. No more hurt feelings!
And no more sales and no more game, none of us what that.
What we want is more sales (from us). The counter argument that I accept is that changes like this might mean less sales overall if it encouraged the biggest spenders to spend less.
Buzz.
Replacing beholds with single pulls would generate more sales from us, especially if the single pulls didn’t include crew that we have already immortalized.
I get that some people just want to eliminate random number generation from crew acquisition as much as possible, which is really what this behold “problem” boils down to.
My argument is that there’s nothing on the packs that says that dB even has to have a behold (choose three) in the first place. And if spending money to get portals and getting duplicate beholds is really as agonizing as some claim, one might do well to examine what the true compelling force in that equation is.
If there is one place where DB has shown attention to detail and an immediate response to issues, it's revenue enhancements. I have no doubt they've run these numbers and determined the current approach is better. Yes, the mini-whales might spend a little more if they got more cards they needed, but the big whales would quickly finish every card in the game, and then every purchase would guarantee the new card they want. The revenue from them would drop off a cliff and that would hurt DB more than the mini-whales current spending.
This makes sense to me. All games are dependent on the RNG for sales. Other games may do it differently, but in the end RNG is the controlling factor. Take Star Wars GOH for instance.
They release a new hero with an event. The player gets to sample the hero, and they get enough shards to get a 3/7 * hero. Then you can buy a pack of shards for $9.99 to get a 4/7 hero and some starting gear. After that, you spend the equivalent of $10 in crystals (aka dil) on RNG packs to get the rest of the shards to make the hero 7*. The RNG pack drops shards in groups of 5, 7, 10, 12, 15, 20, 25, 50, 80, 145, 230, & 330. The player needs 250 at this point if they purchased the $9.99 deal, or they need 280 if they decided to completely take their chances. Post on their forums indicate that the players spend $250 - $300 to 7/7 a hero.
While all games are dependent on RNG for sales, DB is at least up front and somewhat honest about it thanks to Apple. AFIK to this date, SWGOH has not published any odds on the purchase of their packs.
One improvement to the Behold "issue" that I would support is a small honor reward in the circumstance that a behold presents three choices that are all fully fused, to represent the difficulty of fully fusing three super rare/legendary crew.
In my mind, it would be roughly similar to the small dilithium reward that players get for immortalizing x amount of crew.
But I still maintain the position that free behold rerolls are not a good idea.
Yeah I agree this is an annoying issue.... And to this end I stopped buying packs and I will not pull anything I get from events at least till the portal gets updated, or this issue is fixed. Out of my last 20 pulls I got 1 gold and 3 usable purples. The rest were just junk...
That's 20€ (off on offer, more if you get the Dil) for 4 usable crew members....
Comments
Bad comparison, unless you're saying that McDonalds food isn't useful - I'm inclined to agree it's not much use as food, but there is probably some use. Possibly as rat poison.
As I said, it's not about being 'owed', it is about expectations which are different. If this is a gambling game, fine, make it for over 18s and watch as no one buys anything as you'd have to be nuts to gamble real world cash for a prize of bits that will evaporate when the game is eventually switched off.
It's not a gambling game. Yes, there are gambling aspects, but its not a gambling game and it shouldn't be treated as such.
Surely there is a sane point between players demanding all kinds of goodies and brushing off concerns by stating the game is a glorified casino?
God I hate this argument. I tell you what, Marko. If you aren't already used to people trying to offer up solutions that would make the game more fun for them, maybe the FORUMS aren't the place for you. Who cares about your bend over, take it and be happy routine? Not this VIP20+
I like the idea of giving the option of a shuffle or choosing to take bonus honor. Like, if they're all FF you get honor for all 3 or have the choice of respinning.
Another reason I like my plan - The version where we add the reshuffle option to EVERY behold - is that it's very egalitarian. Everyone from new players to whales would have the same option to reshuffle. It wouldn't favor the whales.
When comparing to IRL card collections you forget one important thing. Honor can be used to create new cards, not just trade existing common ones. Very common cards have no value in IRL trades and very rare cards cannot be created out of them. Nobody is willing to switch even 1000 very common cards to a very rare one. Rarity is what makes them valuable. So honor mechanism would IRL totally inflate any card collection game.
Actually I've experienced commons to rare, but at a drastically hardcore ratio.
Mostly in the Baseball arena and Football arena, but not the CCG.
I get what you're saying, but I was considering it more for an even swap. Needing to trade 90 duplicate 4* for just 1 4* citation seems a bit steep. You'd need to trade 250 of those duplicate 4* for a single 5* citation, which is so extreme it's essentially a moot point.
I still think there's room for some improvement in the honor exchange rate, without undermining the value of honor or the rarity of 4* and 5* cards.
Set up a one-time reroll that you kickoff by paying dilthium. Gives you a chance another chance to get something out of it and DB wins by people wanting to have dilithium lying around just incase.
Replace beholds with single pulls. No more hurt feelings!
Task Force Pike/Garrett's Giants, Founder
Task Force April, Fleet Founder Emeritus
Newfie Central, Squad Founder, In Memoriam
And no more sales and no more game, none of us what that.
What we want is more sales (from us). The counter argument that I accept is that changes like this might mean less sales overall if it encouraged the biggest spenders to spend less.
I am pretty sure increasing odds of getting missing crew will lead to less sales. Since only thing they sell are odds to get crew.
Not neccesarily. There are quite a few of us who don't sepnd because the odds are too low. Our frustration stems from the fact that we want to give DB our money and get value for it. As DBs marginal cost is zero for any item, this should be a dream scenario. However, if DB reduces their prices to allow us to purchase then they are reducing their prices for those who would have bought anyway, so there is a trade off there.
I guess fundamentally we are querying whether DB is calculating the trade off correctly. Their track record in many areas is dubious and they are a small, badly run outfit, so the query has validity.
It is likely that there is some change somewhere that could make everyone happier. Voyages was an example of this. It was a great addition to the game that also stimulated spending. These discussions are furthering the search for the next idea that is mutually beneficial.
If there is one place where DB has shown attention to detail and an immediate response to issues, it's revenue enhancements. I have no doubt they've run these numbers and determined the current approach is better. Yes, the mini-whales might spend a little more if they got more cards they needed, but the big whales would quickly finish every card in the game, and then every purchase would guarantee the new card they want. The revenue from them would drop off a cliff and that would hurt DB more than the mini-whales current spending.
From your lips to God's ears.
It's happens to me more often than not these days and it is really frustrating!!!! They absolutely can program it so you do not have three already fully-fused crew to choose from.
Seems lke they have done that recently. I haven't had a behold in the last few 10-packs I've opened. It's been frustrating so I've stopped buying them for a while. Didn't buy any this last event.
Ouch. But hey, congrats on having an immortal Gangster Spock.
As many people in this threads have said, DB relies /focuses on getting new whales for quick profit instead of maintaining large happy and satisfied user base.
Most of whales in my fleet already left the game.
Certainly we have new bloods and we told them about these, and they didn’t listen and just splurge anyway and half regretting now. This proves how DB just relies on new players.
There are many ways for DB to remedy this.
Many prob won’t work, but at least they should try and do the right thing.
Having players to collect data and show them prove something is wrong is a clear indication that they didn’t do a good job. You should hire ppl and playe the game as players instead of tester and test their sanity.
Thing changes and if you don’t adapt, you die... faster than your peer - which happens to many mobile games
Even if it’s a single refresh or refresh for dilithium it would be better than 200 honor for the wasted pull.
- Capt Level 99
- VIP Level 13
- Fleet Admiral [New Black Vipers]
- Starbase Level 134
- Starbase Rooms Completed 15/15
- Crew Slots 295
- Immortalized Crew 639
- Total Crew collected 882/1179
- Crew collections maxed out 7/45
- Galaxy Map Stars 1269/1269
- Cadet Mission Stars 225/225
- Factions Honored 15/15
- Achievements completed 15/16
- Ships maxed out 53/78
Having the ability to BST duplicate cards, even with DB getting a cut, would be a very interesting addition to the game. However, I don't see it happening for a number of reasons.
That said, I agree that Improving the honor value of at least 5* crew (and maybe 4*) is something that absolutely should be done. The Honor Ratio for 3* crew is 45:1 for a citation; for both 4* and 5* it is the ~90:1 that you mention. This means that for things to be uniform, the honor for both 4* and 5* crew should be doubled (400 and 1100, respectively).
For me, I have almost all the SR cards, so I only do pulls from event rewards now, and the rare super special offer for 15 or more 10x pulls +dils+chrons+etc. looking for 5* cards.
Buzz.
Replacing beholds with single pulls would generate more sales from us, especially if the single pulls didn’t include crew that we have already immortalized.
I get that some people just want to eliminate random number generation from crew acquisition as much as possible, which is really what this behold “problem” boils down to.
My argument is that there’s nothing on the packs that says that dB even has to have a behold (choose three) in the first place. And if spending money to get portals and getting duplicate beholds is really as agonizing as some claim, one might do well to examine what the true compelling force in that equation is.
Task Force Pike/Garrett's Giants, Founder
Task Force April, Fleet Founder Emeritus
Newfie Central, Squad Founder, In Memoriam
This makes sense to me. All games are dependent on the RNG for sales. Other games may do it differently, but in the end RNG is the controlling factor. Take Star Wars GOH for instance.
They release a new hero with an event. The player gets to sample the hero, and they get enough shards to get a 3/7 * hero. Then you can buy a pack of shards for $9.99 to get a 4/7 hero and some starting gear. After that, you spend the equivalent of $10 in crystals (aka dil) on RNG packs to get the rest of the shards to make the hero 7*. The RNG pack drops shards in groups of 5, 7, 10, 12, 15, 20, 25, 50, 80, 145, 230, & 330. The player needs 250 at this point if they purchased the $9.99 deal, or they need 280 if they decided to completely take their chances. Post on their forums indicate that the players spend $250 - $300 to 7/7 a hero.
While all games are dependent on RNG for sales, DB is at least up front and somewhat honest about it thanks to Apple. AFIK to this date, SWGOH has not published any odds on the purchase of their packs.
In my mind, it would be roughly similar to the small dilithium reward that players get for immortalizing x amount of crew.
But I still maintain the position that free behold rerolls are not a good idea.
Task Force Pike/Garrett's Giants, Founder
Task Force April, Fleet Founder Emeritus
Newfie Central, Squad Founder, In Memoriam
That's 20€ (off on offer, more if you get the Dil) for 4 usable crew members....