And yes, I believe every word Proton and Arachnia write! They have no reason to lie to anyone...can't say the same about you all, though.
But hey, you think they cheated? Fine! Let DB investigate then! I'm done with your crap!
I, again, am in the unpopular camp that it's DB's fault not the players. DB designed an event that rewards using a macro, more power to them for designing such a good one.
But I don't like being lied to and insulted when something is so blatantly clear in the data.
Okay look. This is devolved into something it shouldn’t. I agree that the concerns of macro usage or whatever is legitimate. But I can assure you that in the case of the top this is not what happened. They have saved for months in preparation for little time on the top. There was no unfair advantage deployed. Unless you count sleep deprivation and large amounts of Mountain Dew and Jolly Ranchers an unfair advantage. They more than earned their time in the spotlight. And to be made to feel like they are gonna be burned at the stake for doing so. So please, let’s move on.
Okay look. This is devolved into something it shouldn’t. I agree that the concerns of macro usage or whatever is legitimate. But I can assure you that in the case of the top this is not what happened. They have saved for months in preparation for little time on the top. There was no unfair advantage deployed. Unless you count sleep deprivation and large amounts of Mountain Dew and Jolly Ranchers an unfair advantage. They more than earned their time in the spotlight. And to be made to feel like they are gonna be burned at the stake for doing so. So please, let’s move on.
It's almost as if someone is trying to get the thread closed so it can be quickly forgotten
Perceptive. Don't let the terrorists win.
Be careful; he might call you Hitler, next. 😋
Well, you started by calling him a troll...
Give and take...
This is true, and why I don't care about being insulted. I should not have called him a troll. He seems to be a genuinely upset person defending his friends, which is commendable. I used the term since he appeared to be saying things in a manner that used harsh terms and seemed designed to get angry replies. My comment was not actually at him, but in the hopes that others would ignore the comments and we could move on. However, his response has amused me and now I'm part of the problem. Oh, well.
I've decided that this guy amuses me. I needed a good laugh.
Your stupidity amuses every intelligent being on this planet. Have fun on the blocklist, troll.
Hi! I'm Clifford!
I played this event. I intentionally stayed out of the top 50, and I exceeded my goal for this event! I don't know what you think "butthurt" means, either!
I talked to Grant on Discord, too, with Frank! He wasn't very nice. It was sad. Mer had to step in. Thanks, Mer! I don't like being called an imbecile. Not usually, anyway.
I also have troubles taking anyone who uses the phrase "fake news" non-ironically seriously!
But I will try. Now that we are acquainted, Tosk, I have a few questions:
Regardless of what your fleetmates were doing, let's set them aside and forget about them placing highly this event, just for these questions, okay?
Do you believe that other people (regardless of where their final rank ended up) might have used macros to play this event?
Do you think that *if* macro usage were happening, it would be an issue, and something that needs to be fixed?
If your answers to those last two were some variation of agreement, we are on the same side.
I don't care if individual players used a macro. I don't want them to be banned. I don't want their rewards taken away. That'd be stupid.
What I want is for this to never be a question again.
What I want is a "engage" button for each battle that places itself in different places on the screen according to RNG. Or a popup after an RNG generated number of skirmishes, that occurs in different that asks you if you are still playing, or if you really do want to start the next one.
Let's introduce more variation to skirmishes, so that macroing a skirmish is no longer easy, okay?
That's what I want.
I know people used macros. I talked to several of them. Unnecessary comment removed. ˜Shan
I don't want to name names, because I don't want anyone punished for this. I want the system to change.
It's almost as if someone is trying to get the thread closed so it can be quickly forgotten
Perceptive. Don't let the terrorists win.
Be careful; he might call you Hitler, next. 😋
Well, you started by calling him a troll...
Give and take...
This is true, and why I don't care about being insulted. I should not have called him a troll. He seems to be a genuinely upset person defending his friends, which is commendable. I used the term since he appeared to be saying things in a manner that used harsh terms and seemed designed to get angry replies. My comment was not actually at him, but in the hopes that others would ignore the comments and we could move on. However, his response has amused me and now I'm part of the problem. Oh, well.
It's an active effort to troll the thread and get it closed. I think quite a few people have been played by their fleetmates and are righteously indignant on blind faith.
I really hate to do this, but @Shan - let's go ahead and kill the thread. You have better things to do with your time than babysit the snip button, and I don't see this ending any time soon.
DB has the data, that's all that matters. Our opinions don't. Yet.
You know someone has nothing positive to add to the discussion when there is more of Shan’s blue moderation text than their own black text in their posts. Obvious troll is obvious.
Getting back to the real problem, preventing macro usage is going to be a tough nut to crack. Coding for moving the button locations or adding random “are you a human” prompts is going to take time better spent on bug fixes and feature additions. Banning accounts caught using macros is also time-consuming and relies on the cheating cheaters who cheated being discouraged from creating a boatload of new accounts from which to cheat. Restricting devices to an IP address will unfairly punish people with dynamic IP addresses, those who use public networks or mobile data for access, people who use multiple devices at different times, and families who like to play together. Doing nothing, however, would be the worst thing of all to do...I do not envy the management at DB right now with the decisions hey are going to have to make.
Definitely macroing. No human could have an r-squared of 1 after 24 hours. The top 2 players categorically had help from a macro program. Real players need sleep, and need showers (hopefully). Going even 48 hours without sleep and keeping up a constant rate is impossible.
Regardless of where you come down on how the accounts in question should be handled by DB, I would hope everyone agrees that being able to easily macro events so "you" can be playing 24/7 across an entire event is bullllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllpatty. (I would say the same of handing around a single account to multiple people, FWIW.)
DB needs to fix events so that this cannot be done.
I also personally think a good-will gesture like grandfathering people's pre-Achievement event ranks for the purposes of getting the Achievement rewards would be great, though ideally, assuming that DB can do math the same as anyone else and see who was macro-ing (or, at best, multiple-people-on-one-account-ing), DB ought to remove those accounts from the ranks, reevaluate where folks placed, and if that is enough to change what tier someone should have gotten, give them the rewards/achievements they should have had in the first place.
And yes, I believe every word Proton and Arachnia write! They have no reason to lie to anyone...can't say the same about you all, though.
But hey, you think they cheated? Fine! Let DB investigate then! I'm done with your crap!
I, again, am in the unpopular camp that it's DB's fault not the players. DB designed an event that rewards using a macro, more power to them for designing such a good one.
But I don't like being lied to and insulted when something is so blatantly clear in the data.
I am completely with you. I hope DB stops the macros because it will destroy the game. But the real fault is making events that rewards macros in the first place. I don't enjoy playing events where my gameplay could be replaced by a computer. I did it because I wanted the rewards, but I don't think I would call it a game, and I certainly wouldn't call it fun.
Well, now I wish I had made my run months ago. The problem has obviously gotten quite severe. I would not even consider spending my hoard in this environment.
Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, is all ancient history. Then, before you can blink an eye, suddenly, it threatens to start all over again."
Agreed. Utilizing macros are against the stated TOS of the game, and it's up to DB to enforce its own rules. However, if left unchecked, this will turn into a competition to see who can hire or write the best macro program. That events are repetitive and are easily macroed is not the fault of the players -- it's the fault of DB. Either the enforcement of the TOS rules needs to be stepped up, or the events themselves need to be changed in some way to prevent easy and widespread macro usage.
Enforcement is always tricky, so I personally side with the latter option -- change the way events are structured or designed. DB: Design Better.
Okay look. This is devolved into something it shouldn’t. I agree that the concerns of macro usage or whatever is legitimate. But I can assure you that in the case of the top this is not what happened. They have saved for months in preparation for little time on the top. There was no unfair advantage deployed. Unless you count sleep deprivation and large amounts of Mountain Dew and Jolly Ranchers an unfair advantage. They more than earned their time in the spotlight. And to be made to feel like they are gonna be burned at the stake for doing so. So please, let’s move on.
I just wanted to note that the way Skirmish Events function, no saving is required. You can enter the event with 10 chronitons and conceivably win because the chroniton rewards given out during the event exceed the chroniton expenditures required. Galaxy Events function the way you're describing, but not Skirmishes.
DB are at fault for making events macro-able but I still place the blame squarely on the players who did it.
The simple fix is an "engage!" button between skirmishes that appears in a random position. This is not a hugely time-consuming task and even if it was it should still be prioritised over the "bug fixes" that DB usually tinkers with. Events are a huge part of the game as it is right now so preventing cheating and non-participation should be top priority. Pack sales will plummet if things are allowed to continue as they are.
Come join our fleet! We're a great social group that helps each other. You play the way you want to, participate as much as you want and if you want to be competitive, you can be! Check out our fleet ad:
I'll say this much - Moogie has been around from the beginning - and regardless of where you encounter him , be it Forums, UC or LINE/Discord, he is *ALWAYS* polite, up front and level.
I'll say this much - Moogie has been around from the beginning - and regardless of where you encounter him , be it Forums, UC or LINE/Discord, he is *ALWAYS* polite, up front and level.
Soooo polite. Replying to your earlier comment, chrons dropped just fine for me. Real life time was hard to come by for me over the weekend and I probably had 20,000-25,000 Intel left over when the event was over; if I had spent all of that without running a single extra ship battle I would have at least 8,000-10,000 more chrons even if my drop rate was significantly lower than the game-wide average provided by Rex.
Comments
I, again, am in the unpopular camp that it's DB's fault not the players. DB designed an event that rewards using a macro, more power to them for designing such a good one.
But I don't like being lied to and insulted when something is so blatantly clear in the data.
Second Star to the Right - Join Today!
Well, you started by calling him a troll...
Give and take...
Finally an intellectual!
This is true, and why I don't care about being insulted. I should not have called him a troll. He seems to be a genuinely upset person defending his friends, which is commendable. I used the term since he appeared to be saying things in a manner that used harsh terms and seemed designed to get angry replies. My comment was not actually at him, but in the hopes that others would ignore the comments and we could move on. However, his response has amused me and now I'm part of the problem. Oh, well.
Hi! I'm Clifford!
I played this event. I intentionally stayed out of the top 50, and I exceeded my goal for this event! I don't know what you think "butthurt" means, either!
I talked to Grant on Discord, too, with Frank! He wasn't very nice. It was sad. Mer had to step in. Thanks, Mer! I don't like being called an imbecile. Not usually, anyway.
I also have troubles taking anyone who uses the phrase "fake news" non-ironically seriously!
But I will try. Now that we are acquainted, Tosk, I have a few questions:
Regardless of what your fleetmates were doing, let's set them aside and forget about them placing highly this event, just for these questions, okay?
Do you believe that other people (regardless of where their final rank ended up) might have used macros to play this event?
Do you think that *if* macro usage were happening, it would be an issue, and something that needs to be fixed?
If your answers to those last two were some variation of agreement, we are on the same side.
I don't care if individual players used a macro. I don't want them to be banned. I don't want their rewards taken away. That'd be stupid.
What I want is for this to never be a question again.
What I want is a "engage" button for each battle that places itself in different places on the screen according to RNG. Or a popup after an RNG generated number of skirmishes, that occurs in different that asks you if you are still playing, or if you really do want to start the next one.
Let's introduce more variation to skirmishes, so that macroing a skirmish is no longer easy, okay?
That's what I want.
I know people used macros. I talked to several of them. Unnecessary comment removed. ˜Shan
I don't want to name names, because I don't want anyone punished for this. I want the system to change.
Are we on the same page?
This thread required way too much moderation and deletion of comments.
Don't engage, how hard is it to follow that simple rule?
It's an active effort to troll the thread and get it closed. I think quite a few people have been played by their fleetmates and are righteously indignant on blind faith.
DB has the data, that's all that matters. Our opinions don't. Yet.
I removed the image as it names other players. ˜Shan
Second Star to the Right - Join Today!
Getting back to the real problem, preventing macro usage is going to be a tough nut to crack. Coding for moving the button locations or adding random “are you a human” prompts is going to take time better spent on bug fixes and feature additions. Banning accounts caught using macros is also time-consuming and relies on the cheating cheaters who cheated being discouraged from creating a boatload of new accounts from which to cheat. Restricting devices to an IP address will unfairly punish people with dynamic IP addresses, those who use public networks or mobile data for access, people who use multiple devices at different times, and families who like to play together. Doing nothing, however, would be the worst thing of all to do...I do not envy the management at DB right now with the decisions hey are going to have to make.
DB needs to fix events so that this cannot be done.
I also personally think a good-will gesture like grandfathering people's pre-Achievement event ranks for the purposes of getting the Achievement rewards would be great, though ideally, assuming that DB can do math the same as anyone else and see who was macro-ing (or, at best, multiple-people-on-one-account-ing), DB ought to remove those accounts from the ranks, reevaluate where folks placed, and if that is enough to change what tier someone should have gotten, give them the rewards/achievements they should have had in the first place.
I am completely with you. I hope DB stops the macros because it will destroy the game. But the real fault is making events that rewards macros in the first place. I don't enjoy playing events where my gameplay could be replaced by a computer. I did it because I wanted the rewards, but I don't think I would call it a game, and I certainly wouldn't call it fun.
Enforcement is always tricky, so I personally side with the latter option -- change the way events are structured or designed. DB: Design Better.
Proud Former Officer of The Gluten Empire
Retired 12-14-20. So long, and thanks for all the cat pics!
I just wanted to note that the way Skirmish Events function, no saving is required. You can enter the event with 10 chronitons and conceivably win because the chroniton rewards given out during the event exceed the chroniton expenditures required. Galaxy Events function the way you're describing, but not Skirmishes.
The simple fix is an "engage!" button between skirmishes that appears in a random position. This is not a hugely time-consuming task and even if it was it should still be prioritised over the "bug fixes" that DB usually tinkers with. Events are a huge part of the game as it is right now so preventing cheating and non-participation should be top priority. Pack sales will plummet if things are allowed to continue as they are.
https://forum.disruptorbeam.com/stt/discussion/5023/qh-the-oldest-fleet-in-timelines-l91-starbase-daily-targets-met
On average, you see about 0.62 chron return per chron invested.
Let's try and be more like his example.
Soooo polite. Replying to your earlier comment, chrons dropped just fine for me. Real life time was hard to come by for me over the weekend and I probably had 20,000-25,000 Intel left over when the event was over; if I had spent all of that without running a single extra ship battle I would have at least 8,000-10,000 more chrons even if my drop rate was significantly lower than the game-wide average provided by Rex.
Sorry, could not resist...is a bad Nomad sometimes