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Key information about the event: Education is Power - 08/30

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  • Average GuyAverage Guy ✭✭✭✭
    robownage wrote: »
    Elynduil wrote: »
    Keiko, Sato, Ogawa played by actresses, Sulu, Kim, Khan played by actors.

    The term actor is used for both now, like server.

    I detest the word "server" used in that sense. Sounds... automated... dehumanised. Also, it's etymologically closer to "servant" than "waiter" is. Small details, perhaps, but I think such things influence people's attitudes towards others more than we realise.

    Off on a tangent, sorry... (slightly) more on topic:
    guest_7456 wrote: »
    RennJaxo wrote: »
    RennJaxo wrote: »
    Shy Khan wrote: »
    Awww, should have been a new Mirror Sulu instead of K’Ehlehr, so it could have been an all Japanese crew event.

    I thought Keiko was Korean.

    Keiko was Japanese. Her actress was Chinese-American.

    I JUST GOT THIS.

    Keiko = Japanese (Chinese/American actor)
    Sato = Japanese (Korean/American actor)
    Sulu = Japanese (Japanese/American actor)
    Ogawa = Japanese (Japanese/American actor)
    Kim = Korean (Chinese/American actor)
    Khan = Indian (Latino actor)

    Don’t even start with the Kelvinverse...

    Picard = French (English/English actor)
    Sisko = Louisianian/American (Indianan/American actor)
    Georgiou = Chinese/Malaysian (Chinese/Malaysian actor)
    Landry = ?/? (Indian/Canadian actor)

    umm what point was i trying to make?

    I've always wondered what Philippa Georgiou's backstory/heritage is supposed to be. Her first name is a latinate feminine form of a male (originally) Greek name, but spelled in the English way. Her surname is Greek. She appears to be of mostly Chinese ethnicity, and was born in Malaysia. Intriguing.


    It might just be me, but I think the over simplification of a language happens when the literacy rate drops. The kids finishing high school today may be great with technology, however, many of them can't string together a proper sentence without some kind of messaging shorthand. Hence, anything and everything become acceptable.

    Ooh, ooh! Linguist here. I understand your perspective, but for scientists this is just evolution of language. Youth especially are always coming up with new and inventive ways to innovate with words. Technology and education are massive factors, but so are interaction with other cultures and societies.

    Imagine going back to 1918 and telling someone "Lemme text my bff to see if they wanna grab some tacos." They would recognize a lot of that as English, but would have zero clue what you'd just said. Some of that sentence is technology and messaging shorthand (text, bff), but some of it is also exposure to new cultures and languages (tacos) and some of it is just natural evolution of language as people look for new shortcuts and inventive words (lemme, wanna, grab).

    Think back to high school English class and trying to wrap your head around Shakespeare. That was the English of his day, but today it takes a trained ear to deconstruct it. Language is supposed to evolve and change, and frankly the idea that Picard & co will talk exactly like us in 350 years is every bit as fictional as the Enterprise herself.

    I am not a linguist but I understand that languages evolve and that they have a proper form and local forms. I also know that they have slang forms. The problem is that younger kids are not taught (or don't practice) putting together a proper sentence. "Lemme text my bff cause I wanna grab some tacos," is supposed to be slang. However, it is becoming more and more common to see individuals use this as the proper form instead of as slang, because to them, it is the proper form. To them, it is not a shortcut or innovation. To me this is not the evolution of language, it is an increased level of illiteracy.

    What is difficult to understand about Shakespeare is not the grammar, but rather the imagery. The use of the words change, but grammar and sentence structure, while they may have changed, can still be found. Picard from 800 years later would still be able to look back and recognize both of these even if he couldn't recognize the imagery. He would think nunnery was a convent and not slang for the local brothel area. Also, Shakespeare wasn't necessarily the proper form. His theatrical works were more poetic and the equivalent of today's music videos and other similar forms where language is changed to fit the sentence. Shakespeare however, still knew how to put together a proper sentence, something that is becoming more and more rare with today's youth.
  • Average GuyAverage Guy ✭✭✭✭
    As a former English teacher, I've noticed that it is not just evolution of language. Most of my students didn't want to know anything more than basic grammar and vocabulary. Language, especially English, is very nuanced. Word choice and punctuation make a huge difference in final meaning. Most of my students didn't care; they wanted enough knowledge to simply get by. For example, how many people younger than 40 use "good" when they should use "well"?

    Bringing it back to Star Trek, the great linguist Hoshi Sato wouldn't approve of such illiteracy.

    Good point, this is a ST site. Just one final note though, from an educational perspective, if we keep lowering the bar and take away from a language (accents, cases etc.), is that evolution necessarily a beneficial step. If we raise the bar for our children, they will try harder to reach it. That goes with anything we are trying to teach them. No replies please, just food for thought....
  • Paund SkummPaund Skumm ✭✭✭✭✭
    Elynduil wrote: »
    Keiko, Sato, Ogawa played by actresses, Sulu, Kim, Khan played by actors.

    The term actor is used for both now, like server.

    I detest the word "server" used in that sense. Sounds... automated... dehumanised. Also, it's etymologically closer to "servant" than "waiter" is. Small details, perhaps, but I think such things influence people's attitudes towards others more than we realise.

    Off on a tangent, sorry... (slightly) more on topic:
    guest_7456 wrote: »
    RennJaxo wrote: »
    RennJaxo wrote: »
    Shy Khan wrote: »
    Awww, should have been a new Mirror Sulu instead of K’Ehlehr, so it could have been an all Japanese crew event.

    I thought Keiko was Korean.

    Keiko was Japanese. Her actress was Chinese-American.

    I JUST GOT THIS.

    Keiko = Japanese (Chinese/American actor)
    Sato = Japanese (Korean/American actor)
    Sulu = Japanese (Japanese/American actor)
    Ogawa = Japanese (Japanese/American actor)
    Kim = Korean (Chinese/American actor)
    Khan = Indian (Latino actor)

    Don’t even start with the Kelvinverse...

    Picard = French (English/English actor)
    Sisko = Louisianian/American (Indianan/American actor)
    Georgiou = Chinese/Malaysian (Chinese/Malaysian actor)
    Landry = ?/? (Indian/Canadian actor)

    umm what point was i trying to make?

    I've always wondered what Philippa Georgiou's backstory/heritage is supposed to be. Her first name is a latinate feminine form of a male (originally) Greek name, but spelled in the English way. Her surname is Greek. She appears to be of mostly Chinese ethnicity, and was born in Malaysia. Intriguing.

    Originally, her name was supposed to be Han Bo which fit with her ethnicity and command of the ship Shenzhou (the name od China’s space rocket program). Being Malaysian fits with her actual (actor) background as about 20% of the population there is ethnically Chinese.

    Why they changed her name at the last minute I’m not sure as it was still listed as Han Bo on IMBD after Discovery premiered. I’ve never seen an explanation of the reason they changed the name.

    https://www.google.ca/amp/s/deadline.com/2016/11/star-trek-discovery-michelle-yeoh-cast-captain-1201859554/amp/

    I can't remember when the Han Solo movie came out in relation to the premier of Discovery, but that may have driven the change.
    I never knew about this, but after reading your post I wish they hadn't changed it.

    Yeah I wish they hadn’t changed it either... it made a lot of sense the other way around but maybe we’ll find out the real reason one day when they release Discovery on blu Ray.

    Man... the rest of this thread has morphed into the cunning linguists versus the master debaters...
  • Paund SkummPaund Skumm ✭✭✭✭✭
    The name of the event IS Education is Power. ;)

    s968pdu1huc9.jpeg
  • Captain SushiCaptain Sushi ✭✭✭✭
    I've got 18 Mirror Universe crew active right now, and all but 3 are fully leveled, fully equipped, and/or fully fused.

    I've got 8 more in cryo.

    I don't think I'll be hurting for bonus crew this time around.
  • AldudeAldude ✭✭✭✭✭
    I will try for sub 1500... But I'm not holding my breath
    Fleet Admiral of NCC UK Midlands."Leave any bigotry in your quarters. There's no room for it on the bridge." - J.T. Kirk, 2266
  • [7TW] UnkieB[7TW] UnkieB ✭✭✭✭✭
    muskeg wrote: »
    Would love to see an all Susie Plakson event with a new female Q character. An all Jeffrey Combs event would also be great.

    I'm waiting for the Max Grodénchik event...

    5* Mirror Rom
    4* Gint
    4* Sovak
    3* Par Lenor


    ;)
  • Average GuyAverage Guy ✭✭✭✭
    Aldude wrote: »
    I will try for sub 1500... But I'm not holding my breath

    There are probably at least 2000 players with 20 or more bonus crew. The good news is that 16 will do to fill up to 4 shuttles.
  • Banjo1012Banjo1012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2018
    I’m looking for top 25. Factions with the mirror trait are low hanging fruit. Every seat will have bonus crew and half of those are immortalized legendaries.
  • Aldude wrote: »
    I will try for sub 1500... But I'm not holding my breath

    There are probably at least 2000 players with 20 or more bonus crew. The good news is that 16 will do to fill up to 4 shuttles.

    unless we have a few 5 seats shuttles like the last couple Faction events...
    I want to become a Dilionaire...
  • PallidynePallidyne ✭✭✭✭✭
    robownage wrote: »
    robownage wrote: »
    Elynduil wrote: »
    Keiko, Sato, Ogawa played by actresses, Sulu, Kim, Khan played by actors.

    The term actor is used for both now, like server.

    I detest the word "server" used in that sense. Sounds... automated... dehumanised. Also, it's etymologically closer to "servant" than "waiter" is. Small details, perhaps, but I think such things influence people's attitudes towards others more than we realise.

    Off on a tangent, sorry... (slightly) more on topic:
    guest_7456 wrote: »
    RennJaxo wrote: »
    RennJaxo wrote: »
    Shy Khan wrote: »
    Awww, should have been a new Mirror Sulu instead of K’Ehlehr, so it could have been an all Japanese crew event.

    I thought Keiko was Korean.

    Keiko was Japanese. Her actress was Chinese-American.

    I JUST GOT THIS.

    Keiko = Japanese (Chinese/American actor)
    Sato = Japanese (Korean/American actor)
    Sulu = Japanese (Japanese/American actor)
    Ogawa = Japanese (Japanese/American actor)
    Kim = Korean (Chinese/American actor)
    Khan = Indian (Latino actor)

    Don’t even start with the Kelvinverse...

    Picard = French (English/English actor)
    Sisko = Louisianian/American (Indianan/American actor)
    Georgiou = Chinese/Malaysian (Chinese/Malaysian actor)
    Landry = ?/? (Indian/Canadian actor)

    umm what point was i trying to make?

    I've always wondered what Philippa Georgiou's backstory/heritage is supposed to be. Her first name is a latinate feminine form of a male (originally) Greek name, but spelled in the English way. Her surname is Greek. She appears to be of mostly Chinese ethnicity, and was born in Malaysia. Intriguing.


    It might just be me, but I think the over simplification of a language happens when the literacy rate drops. The kids finishing high school today may be great with technology, however, many of them can't string together a proper sentence without some kind of messaging shorthand. Hence, anything and everything become acceptable.

    Ooh, ooh! Linguist here. I understand your perspective, but for scientists this is just evolution of language. Youth especially are always coming up with new and inventive ways to innovate with words. Technology and education are massive factors, but so are interaction with other cultures and societies.

    Imagine going back to 1918 and telling someone "Lemme text my bff to see if they wanna grab some tacos." They would recognize a lot of that as English, but would have zero clue what you'd just said. Some of that sentence is technology and messaging shorthand (text, bff), but some of it is also exposure to new cultures and languages (tacos) and some of it is just natural evolution of language as people look for new shortcuts and inventive words (lemme, wanna, grab).

    Think back to high school English class and trying to wrap your head around Shakespeare. That was the English of his day, but today it takes a trained ear to deconstruct it. Language is supposed to evolve and change, and frankly the idea that Picard & co will talk exactly like us in 350 years is every bit as fictional as the Enterprise herself.

    I am not a linguist but I understand that languages evolve and that they have a proper form and local forms. I also know that they have slang forms. The problem is that younger kids are not taught (or don't practice) putting together a proper sentence. "Lemme text my bff cause I wanna grab some tacos," is supposed to be slang. However, it is becoming more and more common to see individuals use this as the proper form instead of as slang, because to them, it is the proper form. To them, it is not a shortcut or innovation. To me this is not the evolution of language, it is an increased level of illiteracy.

    What is difficult to understand about Shakespeare is not the grammar, but rather the imagery. The use of the words change, but grammar and sentence structure, while they may have changed, can still be found. Picard from 800 years later would still be able to look back and recognize both of these even if he couldn't recognize the imagery. He would think nunnery was a convent and not slang for the local brothel area. Also, Shakespeare wasn't necessarily the proper form. His theatrical works were more poetic and the equivalent of today's music videos and other similar forms where language is changed to fit the sentence. Shakespeare however, still knew how to put together a proper sentence, something that is becoming more and more rare with today's youth.

    But all of this is part of the evolution of language. English used to have genders, but somewhere along the line we got rid of them. Its word order changed from that of old Germanic through exposure to other languages. These were huge shifts in the grammar of the language...should we go back in time and correct them? Trust me, the worst part of learning German is those three genders and I am thankful to all of those who decided we should move past them. But neither of those changes were a conscious decision - they rose from people who started ignoring them in their daily conversation. And youths playing around with it is a huge part of that evolution.

    Part of the fun of languages is that they don't stay static - they evolve with the times. Even if all of this comes from an increased level of illiteracy, it doesn't mean it's a bad thing. It shows the creativity of the human spirit.

    I was following along with your points right up until the end here. Literacy is at least as important as energy freedom and food security on the list of things that make for a happy, healthy, and prosperous civilization. Changes in vocabulary and even sentence structure are to be expected over decades and centuries - imagine the looks you would get in a public place if you only used slang from the 1940s, much less the 1540s - but these changes are gradual over time. What we have been seeing consistently among adolescents for the last few decades now is a marked step back in command of even the most basic spelling, grammar, and vocabulary to the point where the average 8th grader today isn’t even expected to understand what was commonplace fifty or a hundred years ago. This is not creativity, it is the loss of the ability to express thoughts, feelings, and ideas in a meaningful way that others can understand. In no sane universe is “ur mai bae 4eva” a more creative expression of love than a multi-page letter chock full of Shakespeare quotations.

    Education is indeed power, and those who willfully reject it should absolutely be rendered powerless...which won’t happen when ignorance and lack of eloquence becomes a virtue.

    There are many adults to blame for that as well, when illiterates are given power, especially over educational systems.
  • AviTrekAviTrek ✭✭✭✭✭
    Aldude wrote: »
    I will try for sub 1500... But I'm not holding my breath

    There are probably at least 2000 players with 20 or more bonus crew. The good news is that 16 will do to fill up to 4 shuttles.

    unless we have a few 5 seats shuttles like the last couple Faction events...

    But why would you run those? There are always plenty of four seat shuttles and the couple 3 seat shuttles. Run the 3 seaters that match your crew, then finish it off with 4 seaters. You should never need to run a 5 seat shuttle.
  • Dirk GundersonDirk Gunderson ✭✭✭✭✭
    Pallidyne wrote: »
    There are many adults to blame for that as well, when illiterates are given power, especially over educational systems.

    Amen, good sir.
    AviTrek wrote: »
    Aldude wrote: »
    I will try for sub 1500... But I'm not holding my breath

    There are probably at least 2000 players with 20 or more bonus crew. The good news is that 16 will do to fill up to 4 shuttles.

    unless we have a few 5 seats shuttles like the last couple Faction events...

    But why would you run those? There are always plenty of four seat shuttles and the couple 3 seat shuttles. Run the 3 seaters that match your crew, then finish it off with 4 seaters. You should never need to run a 5 seat shuttle.

    If memory serves, we have had at least one recent event where there were fewer or no 3-seat shuttles and more 5-seat shuttles. People who don’t want to waste merits or have an exceptionally deep crew roster most certainly will run 5-seaters, especially if they are only going for thresholds.
  • Cam TaliisCam Taliis ✭✭✭✭
    As a former English teacher, I've noticed that it is not just evolution of language. Most of my students didn't want to know anything more than basic grammar and vocabulary. Language, especially English, is very nuanced. Word choice and punctuation make a huge difference in final meaning. Most of my students didn't care; they wanted enough knowledge to simply get by. For example, how many people younger than 40 use "good" when they should use "well"?

    Bringing it back to Star Trek, the great linguist Hoshi Sato wouldn't approve of such illiteracy.

    I am under 40 but if I ask someone how they are and they answer "I'm doing good" I usually ask them if they mean they are giving to charities and things like that.

    It would be a big step towards the Star Trek idea of the future if everyone who said they are doing good was actually doing good though.
  • GhostStalkerGhostStalker ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2018
    I was following along with your points right up until the end here. Literacy is at least as important as energy freedom and food security on the list of things that make for a happy, healthy, and prosperous civilization. Changes in vocabulary and even sentence structure are to be expected over decades and centuries - imagine the looks you would get in a public place if you only used slang from the 1940s, much less the 1540s - but these changes are gradual over time. What we have been seeing consistently among adolescents for the last few decades now is a marked step back in command of even the most basic spelling, grammar, and vocabulary to the point where the average 8th grader today isn’t even expected to understand what was commonplace fifty or a hundred years ago. This is not creativity, it is the loss of the ability to express thoughts, feelings, and ideas in a meaningful way that others can understand. In no sane universe is “ur mai bae 4eva” a more creative expression of love than a multi-page letter chock full of Shakespeare quotations.

    Education is indeed power, and those who willfully reject it should absolutely be rendered powerless...which won’t happen when ignorance and lack of eloquence becomes a virtue.

    Not only does this kind of extreme lazy shorthand seem unintelligent, it also results in a reduced capacity to make yourself understood. With a very limited vocabulary, a person has very limited options to explain themselves in a thorough way, and there is a much greater chance of misunderstanding. This can be frustrating in general conversation, but can be very limiting in a person's career, or even detrimental to successful business when dealing with customers directly.

    It seems like an especially bad time to me to be adopting lazy speech and vocabulary, at a time of increased automation in employment. More jobs will likely require a higher level of education and human thought, with less menial repetitive work available. This means more employment will require a greater level of complex thought and communication, which will be much more difficult to accomplish when a person can't even communicate effectively in writing or verbally.

    Why would they learn the rules if their phones and computers are going to learn for them? How many kids today you think know their parents' phone numbers? How many parents know their kids' phone numbers?

    Show of hands... Who else watched Wall-E and thought "Why are the robots even bothering to keep these useless people alive?"
  • Why can’t we have more Janeway? The last time she was featured in an event was December 2017 (Mirror Janeway) Event Operation: Earth. This is an outrage. I want more Janeway!!!!x9bs5g0mivll.jpeg
    “What's a knockout like you doing in a computer-generated gin joint like this?”

    Proud member of Patterns of Force
    Captain Level 99
    Played since January 2017

    TP: Do better!!!
  • Peachtree RexPeachtree Rex ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why can’t we have more Janeway? The last time she was featured in an event was December 2017 (Mirror Janeway) Event Operation: Earth. This is an outrage. I want more Janeway!!!!x9bs5g0mivll.jpeg

    At the risk of missing some sarcasm, there has been a running joke of sorts that Janeway must make an appearance in every mega event. This stems from the fact that she appeared in the first four mega events:
    • Borg Mega: Assimilated Janeway
    • Klingon Mega: Klingon Janeway
    • Discovery Mega: Captain Janeway
    • Mirror Mega: Mirror Janeway

    You are, of course, correct that she hasn't appeared in an event since the Mirror Mega, but her 11 different versions are still one of the highest totals in the game. I believe she only trails Picard (15 versions) and Jadzia Dax (12 versions) and is tied with Worf.
  • PallidynePallidyne ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why can’t we have more Janeway? The last time she was featured in an event was December 2017 (Mirror Janeway) Event Operation: Earth. This is an outrage. I want more Janeway!!!!x9bs5g0mivll.jpeg

    At the risk of missing some sarcasm, there has been a running joke of sorts that Janeway must make an appearance in every mega event. This stems from the fact that she appeared in the first four mega events:
    • Borg Mega: Assimilated Janeway
    • Klingon Mega: Klingon Janeway
    • Discovery Mega: Captain Janeway
    • Mirror Mega: Mirror Janeway

    You are, of course, correct that she hasn't appeared in an event since the Mirror Mega, but her 11 different versions are still one of the highest totals in the game. I believe she only trails Picard (15 versions) and Jadzia Dax (12 versions) and is tied with Worf.

    There are also 11 Rikers and La Forges.

  • garnergarner ✭✭✭
    If memory serves, we have had at least one recent event where there were fewer or no 3-seat shuttles and more 5-seat shuttles. People who don’t want to waste merits or have an exceptionally deep crew roster most certainly will run 5-seaters, especially if they are only going for thresholds.

    I can't think of a single time there have been no 3 seaters since they were introduced.
    The latest pattern has been 2x3s, 4x4s, & 2x5s. When it was six transmissions, 1 3 and 5 were dropped.
  • PallidynePallidyne ✭✭✭✭✭
    garner wrote: »
    If memory serves, we have had at least one recent event where there were fewer or no 3-seat shuttles and more 5-seat shuttles. People who don’t want to waste merits or have an exceptionally deep crew roster most certainly will run 5-seaters, especially if they are only going for thresholds.

    I can't think of a single time there have been no 3 seaters since they were introduced.
    The latest pattern has been 2x3s, 4x4s, & 2x5s. When it was six transmissions, 1 3 and 5 were dropped.

    There have been some instances in the 6 transmission events where one faction didn't have a three seater but the other two did. It's been rare, but it has happened.
  • Althea BiermontAlthea Biermont ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2018
    I miss the days when factions events even had some 2 seat shuttles in the early events and 4 seaters were extremely rare with no concept of a 5 seater at all in the first faction event (they added one in the 2nd)

    Edited to remove the 1 seat shuttle reference. The lowest was 2 seats.
  • Zombie Squirrel Zombie Squirrel ✭✭✭✭✭
    I miss the days when factions events even had some 1 and 2 seat shuttles in the early events and 4 seaters were extremely rare with no concept of a 5 seater at all

    And when u only had like 1-2 bonus crew and a total of 75 crew in game, to fill them. Right? ;)
    •SSR Delta Flyers•
  • Althea BiermontAlthea Biermont ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2018
    I miss the days when factions events even had some 1 and 2 seat shuttles in the early events and 4 seaters were extremely rare with no concept of a 5 seater at all
    And when u only had like 1-2 bonus crew and a total of 75 crew in game, to fill them. Right? ;)
    I had around 140 crew at the point of the first event
    With new people coming in the game every single day, every event is the first event for some people. They won't even have 75 crew and will have very few bonus crew.

    I shudder to think of what I would have thought of events if they had rolled out right away when I had such a limited number of crew. Everyone who started at the beginning had 4 months before the first event. It might have driven me away from the game because it would have seemed insanely hard.
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