I wrote previously on this issue; why don’t they randomly alternate the placement of the “next skirmish” and “abandon skirmish” button so you only get a 50/50 chance of pushing the right one. Same with the popup screen that’s says do you really want to abandon “yes/no” swap those two buttons randomly. It would add zero time to real players who just have to pick the right button but would pretty much kill all basic macros (unless you’re really sophisticated with OCR for your boy). Where’s the hole in this solution that I’m missing?
I wrote previously on this issue; why don’t they randomly alternate the placement of the “next skirmish” and “abandon skirmish” button so you only get a 50/50 chance of pushing the right one. Same with the popup screen that’s says do you really want to abandon “yes/no” swap those two buttons randomly. It would add zero time to real players who just have to pick the right button but would pretty much kill all basic macros (unless you’re really sophisticated with OCR for your boy). Where’s the hole in this solution that I’m missing?
Because plenty of humans play by muscles memory and they'd be flooded with tickets from people who accidentally clicked the wrong button.
Plus a decent macro could detect the button switch and adjust more reliability than a human.
You've basically just made the event even better for smart bot writers.
No bot is going to adapt better than a human player - that's just nonsense.
Quite frankly, I'd say hard luck on players who hit the wrong button because they can't be bothered to pay enough attention. If it was a dil or cash spend button I'd have a problem but if you lose a skirmish you're just out a bit of VP and Intel - no big deal and certainly not worth a ticket.
Come join our fleet! We're a great social group that helps each other. You play the way you want to, participate as much as you want and if you want to be competitive, you can be! Check out our fleet ad:
I wrote previously on this issue; why don’t they randomly alternate the placement of the “next skirmish” and “abandon skirmish” button so you only get a 50/50 chance of pushing the right one. Same with the popup screen that’s says do you really want to abandon “yes/no” swap those two buttons randomly. It would add zero time to real players who just have to pick the right button but would pretty much kill all basic macros (unless you’re really sophisticated with OCR for your boy). Where’s the hole in this solution that I’m missing?
Because plenty of humans play by muscles memory and they'd be flooded with tickets from people who accidentally clicked the wrong button.
Plus a decent macro could detect the button switch and adjust more reliability than a human.
You've basically just made the event even better for smart bot writers.
Yeah, I figured that would be the response.
Playing by muscle memory is why a second pop up already occurs if you push abandon skirmish with a confirmation box. If you manage to push the wrong button twice in different locations then I think you kind of deserve to have one skirmish abandoned. If you flood CS with a zillion tickets for one lousy 1200 intel skirmish (out of hundreds run by each of us each event) then you’ve got bigger issues.
My understanding is that the macros run are pretty simple. Of course there are smart bot writers who are probably spending more time beating Ticketmaster’s captchas where real money is at stake, not a ranking in skirmishes. Could probably detect buttons, yes but as I pointed out originally, that is a completely different level of sophistication than plugging screen clicks into a macro.
The point is that this is a simple, easy and fair way to dissuade macro use without penalizing normal play. It is impossible to completely eliminate bot use but I’m not sure we are actually faced with an epidemic of sophisticated skirmishes bots at this time.
No bot is going to adapt better than a human player - that's just nonsense.
Quite frankly, I'd say hard luck on players who hit the wrong button because they can't be bothered to pay enough attention. If it was a dil or cash spend button I'd have a problem but if you lose a skirmish you're just out a bit of VP and Intel - no big deal and certainly not worth a ticket.
So you think that 1200 Intel is not worth a ticket? That's in pure chron terms worth 120 chrons and even with supply boost, it's 90 chrons. So in my opinion well worth a ticket.
Come join our fleet! We're a great social group that helps each other. You play the way you want to, participate as much as you want and if you want to be competitive, you can be! Check out our fleet ad:
No bot is going to adapt better than a human player - that's just nonsense.
Quite frankly, I'd say hard luck on players who hit the wrong button because they can't be bothered to pay enough attention. If it was a dil or cash spend button I'd have a problem but if you lose a skirmish you're just out a bit of VP and Intel - no big deal and certainly not worth a ticket.
So you think that 1200 Intel is not worth a ticket? That's in pure chron terms worth 120 chrons and even with supply boost, it's 90 chrons. So in my opinion well worth a ticket.
You would probably not get your intel back before the end of the event from CS in any case given their response time and yes, pushing the wrong button twice in two different locations means you probably deserve to lose those 1200 intel.
I enjoy skirmishes even though to register a top 1000 finish, you have to invest at least 12 hours solid play. However, the sheer number of honor points and Chrons dropped do feel like solid reward for your graft.
I do echo the sentiments with the OP and many of the other posters; it was really irritating to only reach 160 in the rankings when there are bots/macros helping the idle players grab an unfair share of the prizes.
Question for Shran/Admin: Will rankings be adjusted if there’s an audit of the recent skirmish event and bots are found to have affected the results?
I played at most 5-6 hours and finished 1034.
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No bot is going to adapt better than a human player - that's just nonsense.
Quite frankly, I'd say hard luck on players who hit the wrong button because they can't be bothered to pay enough attention. If it was a dil or cash spend button I'd have a problem but if you lose a skirmish you're just out a bit of VP and Intel - no big deal and certainly not worth a ticket.
So you think that 1200 Intel is not worth a ticket? That's in pure chron terms worth 120 chrons and even with supply boost, it's 90 chrons. So in my opinion well worth a ticket.
You would probably not get your intel back before the end of the event from CS in any case given their response time and yes, pushing the wrong button twice in two different locations means you probably deserve to lose those 1200 intel.
No, I don't deserve to lose anything because of stupid cheaters. And they would probably have to refund my chrons not the intel.
No bot is going to adapt better than a human player - that's just nonsense.
Quite frankly, I'd say hard luck on players who hit the wrong button because they can't be bothered to pay enough attention. If it was a dil or cash spend button I'd have a problem but if you lose a skirmish you're just out a bit of VP and Intel - no big deal and certainly not worth a ticket.
So you think that 1200 Intel is not worth a ticket? That's in pure chron terms worth 120 chrons and even with supply boost, it's 90 chrons. So in my opinion well worth a ticket.
You would probably not get your intel back before the end of the event from CS in any case given their response time and yes, pushing the wrong button twice in two different locations means you probably deserve to lose those 1200 intel.
No, I don't deserve to lose anything because of stupid cheaters. And they would probably have to refund my chrons not the intel.
You'd lose intel/chrons because of your own lack of concentration, not cheaters. Had DB designed the event with this measure in place from the start no one - not even on this forum(!) - would have a complaint about it.
Come join our fleet! We're a great social group that helps each other. You play the way you want to, participate as much as you want and if you want to be competitive, you can be! Check out our fleet ad:
I finished very comfortably below 1000 with maybe 7 hour or so. I played while doing other mindless events like watching TV, waiting for my daughters in ballet, and driving. So no real time lost. 😉
No bot is going to adapt better than a human player - that's just nonsense.
Quite frankly, I'd say hard luck on players who hit the wrong button because they can't be bothered to pay enough attention. If it was a dil or cash spend button I'd have a problem but if you lose a skirmish you're just out a bit of VP and Intel - no big deal and certainly not worth a ticket.
So you think that 1200 Intel is not worth a ticket? That's in pure chron terms worth 120 chrons and even with supply boost, it's 90 chrons. So in my opinion well worth a ticket.
You would probably not get your intel back before the end of the event from CS in any case given their response time and yes, pushing the wrong button twice in two different locations means you probably deserve to lose those 1200 intel.
No, I don't deserve to lose anything because of stupid cheaters. And they would probably have to refund my chrons not the intel.
Then by all means file a ticket. It’s not like you couldn’t do the same thing now (push abandon accidentally) so why would this be an issue?
On the subject of fighting macros. I still feel like allowing bonuses to stack would solve this matter. Assuming DB could manage a crew sorting/search mechanism during the event. Then just randomly varying which crew traits offer the bonus should be sufficient to allow humans to outclass any macro with not too much effort. But then again, maybe not.
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I finished very comfortably below 1000 with maybe 7 hour or so. I played while doing other mindless events like watching TV, waiting for my daughters in ballet, and driving. So no real time lost. 😉
While I did exactly the same (about 5-7 hours on and off, didn’t count, for top 1000), I am worried that someone out there is driving mindlessly while playing skirmishes... at least tell me which city you’re in so I can watch out next skirmish event...
No bot is going to adapt better than a human player - that's just nonsense.
Quite frankly, I'd say hard luck on players who hit the wrong button because they can't be bothered to pay enough attention. If it was a dil or cash spend button I'd have a problem but if you lose a skirmish you're just out a bit of VP and Intel - no big deal and certainly not worth a ticket.
So you think that 1200 Intel is not worth a ticket? That's in pure chron terms worth 120 chrons and even with supply boost, it's 90 chrons. So in my opinion well worth a ticket.
You would probably not get your intel back before the end of the event from CS in any case given their response time and yes, pushing the wrong button twice in two different locations means you probably deserve to lose those 1200 intel.
No, I don't deserve to lose anything because of stupid cheaters. And they would probably have to refund my chrons not the intel.
Then by all means file a ticket. It’s not like you couldn’t do the same thing now (push abandon accidentally) so why would this be an issue?
Muscle memory prevents me from accidentally pressing the wrong button. You think anyone actually reads what the buttons say? No...
I don't think anyone can actively play while actively driving, but the comedic value is on an absurd 3rd item in the list. I didn't time myself, so perhaps it was longer than that. The point is that most of my playing was while doing other, mundane things. I like Skirmish for that. I won a bunch of honor and some credits as well as the new crew. I'm happy.
No bot is going to adapt better than a human player - that's just nonsense.
Quite frankly, I'd say hard luck on players who hit the wrong button because they can't be bothered to pay enough attention. If it was a dil or cash spend button I'd have a problem but if you lose a skirmish you're just out a bit of VP and Intel - no big deal and certainly not worth a ticket.
So you think that 1200 Intel is not worth a ticket? That's in pure chron terms worth 120 chrons and even with supply boost, it's 90 chrons. So in my opinion well worth a ticket.
You would probably not get your intel back before the end of the event from CS in any case given their response time and yes, pushing the wrong button twice in two different locations means you probably deserve to lose those 1200 intel.
No, I don't deserve to lose anything because of stupid cheaters. And they would probably have to refund my chrons not the intel.
You'd lose intel/chrons because of your own lack of concentration, not cheaters. Had DB designed the event with this measure in place from the start no one - not even on this forum(!) - would have a complaint about it.
There would be complaints and especially when people realize that the actual cheaters could probably program some color recognition into their macros and then it doesn't matter where you place your button the bot wouldn't be effected but the human player would be. You would achieve a level playing field by nerfing the single tool that human players have against bots, efficiency.
On the subject of fighting macros. I still feel like allowing bonuses to stack would solve this matter. Assuming DB could manage a crew sorting/search mechanism during the event. Then just randomly varying which crew traits offer the bonus should be sufficient to allow humans to outclass any macro with not too much effort. But then again, maybe not.
Depending on how the crew sorted, it would add a tonne of work to manual players regardless. If you added “best bonus” to the top of the crew list then a macro could easily pick the top crew each time, maybe even better than us manually because the darned icons are so small.
If there were only one or two out of five you couldn’t get MAX VP bonus, then even without sorting I would (if I ran a bot; which I don’t) just **tsk tsk** up the loss of 1000vp out of 6000vp in exchange for the non-stop rise in freebie honour and credits (plus chrons) and still kick the butts of pretty much anyone but the most sleep deprived poker playing manual player...
So it’s a good idea but I’m not sure it would really deter simple macro use which I think is the primary issue right now, not complex sophisticated bots.
No bot is going to adapt better than a human player - that's just nonsense.
Quite frankly, I'd say hard luck on players who hit the wrong button because they can't be bothered to pay enough attention. If it was a dil or cash spend button I'd have a problem but if you lose a skirmish you're just out a bit of VP and Intel - no big deal and certainly not worth a ticket.
So you think that 1200 Intel is not worth a ticket? That's in pure chron terms worth 120 chrons and even with supply boost, it's 90 chrons. So in my opinion well worth a ticket.
You would probably not get your intel back before the end of the event from CS in any case given their response time and yes, pushing the wrong button twice in two different locations means you probably deserve to lose those 1200 intel.
No, I don't deserve to lose anything because of stupid cheaters. And they would probably have to refund my chrons not the intel.
Then by all means file a ticket. It’s not like you couldn’t do the same thing now (push abandon accidentally) so why would this be an issue?
Muscle memory prevents me from accidentally pressing the wrong button. You think anyone actually reads what the buttons say? No...
So your muscle memory is so good you push the wrong button twice in a different location with a popup warning? I have to learn that skill because I’ve been working on my golf swing for years and fear my muscle memory must have Alzheimer’s.
Having seen the code for some skirmish macros (again I don’t use one as I play on an iPhone... and my ranking would be a lot better if I did as I don’t have time to finish my intel and end up with more Chron than I started with), I remain unconvinced that there is a deluge of sophisticated bots out there that could thwart this. They are mostly simple timed screen tap macros and this would eliminate that problem.
If that resulted in a deluge of sophisticated bots being programmed (a lot of effort for a little game but hey, could very well happen), then let’s cross that bridge when we get to it.
No bot is going to adapt better than a human player - that's just nonsense.
Quite frankly, I'd say hard luck on players who hit the wrong button because they can't be bothered to pay enough attention. If it was a dil or cash spend button I'd have a problem but if you lose a skirmish you're just out a bit of VP and Intel - no big deal and certainly not worth a ticket.
Yes, a bot is going to adapt better than a human. A bot is going to be programmed once to identify the buttons and pick the right one. At that point the bot will NEVER make a mistake. A human is going to have to consciously stop and read the text each time. Humans make careless mistakes all the time. I've selected the wrong gauntlet crew, then started the match(2 button presses) before realizing my mistake. Bots will always be better than humans at boring repetitive tasks. A bot is never distracted. A bot never makes a mistake. A bot does what it's told, and does it perfectly every time.
No bot is going to adapt better than a human player - that's just nonsense.
Quite frankly, I'd say hard luck on players who hit the wrong button because they can't be bothered to pay enough attention. If it was a dil or cash spend button I'd have a problem but if you lose a skirmish you're just out a bit of VP and Intel - no big deal and certainly not worth a ticket.
Yes, a bot is going to adapt better than a human. A bot is going to be programmed once to identify the buttons and pick the right one. At that point the bot will NEVER make a mistake. A human is going to have to consciously stop and read the text each time. Humans make careless mistakes all the time. I've selected the wrong gauntlet crew, then started the match(2 button presses) before realizing my mistake. Bots will always be better than humans at boring repetitive tasks. A bot is never distracted. A bot never makes a mistake. A bot does what it's told, and does it perfectly every time.
This. I out of curiosity did a simple Google search and what I have found is quite terrifyingly real. There are macros out there that supposedly can identify things from an image. So what that means is that a sophisticated bot/macro would not only be more consistent than a human player (especially with the random placed buttons) but it would also have better efficiency as well. The only limit to the bot at that point would be resources. I can pretty much only think of one way to combat that, making events less repetitive or we will in the future see like some speculated in the first skirmish thread where bots will be competing against other bots to see who programmed the most efficient bot. And if we get to that point there would be no reason why human players would even be bothered trying to compete in the events.
Yes. But not as efficient as there is no “infinite chroniton loop” from galaxy and you run out of crafting items as they drain resources. Plus they are not as time consuming as skirmishes which take like 2-3 minutes each set.
As I see it skirmishes set themselves up for bots because not only are they repetitive, it rewards you for the repetition with Chron, honour and credits (as well as VP) plus they take a lot of time to run, relatively speaking, have the exact same “tap sequence” each time (making macro programming really easy) and can be run infinitely as long as you occasionally refresh your intel by running Warp 10 space missions.
The other good place (IMO) for macros (having seen that source coding as well) is Voyages where you can run them overnight every two hours. But that has not been seen as an issue as it’s not in an event.
Sadly, (for me) you can’t run these things on an iPhone. But you can code simple macros on your android phone (or emulator).
Yes. But not as efficient as there is no “infinite chroniton loop” from galaxy and you run out of crafting items as they drain resources. Plus they are not as time consuming as skirmishes which take like 2-3 minutes each set.
As I see it skirmishes set themselves up for bots because not only are they repetitive, it rewards you for the repetition with Chron, honour and credits (as well as VP) plus they take a lot of time to run, relatively speaking, have the exact same “tap sequence” each time (making macro programming really easy) and can be run infinitely as long as you occasionally refresh your intel by running Warp 10 space missions.
The other good place (IMO) for macros (having seen that source coding as well) is Voyages where you can run them overnight every two hours. But that has not been seen as an issue as it’s not in an event.
Sadly, (for me) you can’t run these things on an iPhone. But you can code simple macros on your android phone (or emulator).
Now where’s my free water?
Good to know I can beat a machine in a Galaxy event. Just gotta do the work. And if you live anywhere near Chicago we will be having lots of free water just falling from the sky here shortly
Yes. But not as efficient as there is no “infinite chroniton loop” from galaxy and you run out of crafting items as they drain resources. Plus they are not as time consuming as skirmishes which take like 2-3 minutes each set.
As I see it skirmishes set themselves up for bots because not only are they repetitive, it rewards you for the repetition with Chron, honour and credits (as well as VP) plus they take a lot of time to run, relatively speaking, have the exact same “tap sequence” each time (making macro programming really easy) and can be run infinitely as long as you occasionally refresh your intel by running Warp 10 space missions.
The other good place (IMO) for macros (having seen that source coding as well) is Voyages where you can run them overnight every two hours. But that has not been seen as an issue as it’s not in an event.
Sadly, (for me) you can’t run these things on an iPhone. But you can code simple macros on your android phone (or emulator).
Now where’s my free water?
Good to know I can beat a machine in a Galaxy event. Just gotta do the work. And if you live anywhere near Chicago we will be having lots of free water just falling from the sky here shortly
I’m not sure about Chicago but collecting that “free water from the sky” is actually technically illegal in many states... kid you not... I can look it up for you if you’re curious.
So NO... I will still get my free water from the Burger King that Banjo frequents... as I am a law abiding free loading citizen.
Wouldn’t that be difficult though? If you need something to complete a recipe you need to find a mission, run it, apply the component to the build. Then what if the item didn’t drop running the mission?
Comments
Because plenty of humans play by muscles memory and they'd be flooded with tickets from people who accidentally clicked the wrong button.
Plus a decent macro could detect the button switch and adjust more reliability than a human.
You've basically just made the event even better for smart bot writers.
Quite frankly, I'd say hard luck on players who hit the wrong button because they can't be bothered to pay enough attention. If it was a dil or cash spend button I'd have a problem but if you lose a skirmish you're just out a bit of VP and Intel - no big deal and certainly not worth a ticket.
https://forum.disruptorbeam.com/stt/discussion/5023/qh-the-oldest-fleet-in-timelines-l91-starbase-daily-targets-met
Yeah, I figured that would be the response.
Playing by muscle memory is why a second pop up already occurs if you push abandon skirmish with a confirmation box. If you manage to push the wrong button twice in different locations then I think you kind of deserve to have one skirmish abandoned. If you flood CS with a zillion tickets for one lousy 1200 intel skirmish (out of hundreds run by each of us each event) then you’ve got bigger issues.
My understanding is that the macros run are pretty simple. Of course there are smart bot writers who are probably spending more time beating Ticketmaster’s captchas where real money is at stake, not a ranking in skirmishes. Could probably detect buttons, yes but as I pointed out originally, that is a completely different level of sophistication than plugging screen clicks into a macro.
The point is that this is a simple, easy and fair way to dissuade macro use without penalizing normal play. It is impossible to completely eliminate bot use but I’m not sure we are actually faced with an epidemic of sophisticated skirmishes bots at this time.
So you think that 1200 Intel is not worth a ticket? That's in pure chron terms worth 120 chrons and even with supply boost, it's 90 chrons. So in my opinion well worth a ticket.
https://forum.disruptorbeam.com/stt/discussion/5023/qh-the-oldest-fleet-in-timelines-l91-starbase-daily-targets-met
You would probably not get your intel back before the end of the event from CS in any case given their response time and yes, pushing the wrong button twice in two different locations means you probably deserve to lose those 1200 intel.
I played at most 5-6 hours and finished 1034.
PM for details.
So long and thanks for all the fish.
No, I don't deserve to lose anything because of stupid cheaters. And they would probably have to refund my chrons not the intel.
You'd lose intel/chrons because of your own lack of concentration, not cheaters. Had DB designed the event with this measure in place from the start no one - not even on this forum(!) - would have a complaint about it.
https://forum.disruptorbeam.com/stt/discussion/5023/qh-the-oldest-fleet-in-timelines-l91-starbase-daily-targets-met
Then by all means file a ticket. It’s not like you couldn’t do the same thing now (push abandon accidentally) so why would this be an issue?
PM for details.
So long and thanks for all the fish.
While I did exactly the same (about 5-7 hours on and off, didn’t count, for top 1000), I am worried that someone out there is driving mindlessly while playing skirmishes... at least tell me which city you’re in so I can watch out next skirmish event...
😇😇😇
Muscle memory prevents me from accidentally pressing the wrong button. You think anyone actually reads what the buttons say? No...
There would be complaints and especially when people realize that the actual cheaters could probably program some color recognition into their macros and then it doesn't matter where you place your button the bot wouldn't be effected but the human player would be. You would achieve a level playing field by nerfing the single tool that human players have against bots, efficiency.
Depending on how the crew sorted, it would add a tonne of work to manual players regardless. If you added “best bonus” to the top of the crew list then a macro could easily pick the top crew each time, maybe even better than us manually because the darned icons are so small.
If there were only one or two out of five you couldn’t get MAX VP bonus, then even without sorting I would (if I ran a bot; which I don’t) just **tsk tsk** up the loss of 1000vp out of 6000vp in exchange for the non-stop rise in freebie honour and credits (plus chrons) and still kick the butts of pretty much anyone but the most sleep deprived poker playing manual player...
So it’s a good idea but I’m not sure it would really deter simple macro use which I think is the primary issue right now, not complex sophisticated bots.
So your muscle memory is so good you push the wrong button twice in a different location with a popup warning? I have to learn that skill because I’ve been working on my golf swing for years and fear my muscle memory must have Alzheimer’s.
Having seen the code for some skirmish macros (again I don’t use one as I play on an iPhone... and my ranking would be a lot better if I did as I don’t have time to finish my intel and end up with more Chron than I started with), I remain unconvinced that there is a deluge of sophisticated bots out there that could thwart this. They are mostly simple timed screen tap macros and this would eliminate that problem.
If that resulted in a deluge of sophisticated bots being programmed (a lot of effort for a little game but hey, could very well happen), then let’s cross that bridge when we get to it.
Yes, a bot is going to adapt better than a human. A bot is going to be programmed once to identify the buttons and pick the right one. At that point the bot will NEVER make a mistake. A human is going to have to consciously stop and read the text each time. Humans make careless mistakes all the time. I've selected the wrong gauntlet crew, then started the match(2 button presses) before realizing my mistake. Bots will always be better than humans at boring repetitive tasks. A bot is never distracted. A bot never makes a mistake. A bot does what it's told, and does it perfectly every time.
They could, sure, but Galaxy events are less time consuming so there's less benefit from using them.
This. I out of curiosity did a simple Google search and what I have found is quite terrifyingly real. There are macros out there that supposedly can identify things from an image. So what that means is that a sophisticated bot/macro would not only be more consistent than a human player (especially with the random placed buttons) but it would also have better efficiency as well. The only limit to the bot at that point would be resources. I can pretty much only think of one way to combat that, making events less repetitive or we will in the future see like some speculated in the first skirmish thread where bots will be competing against other bots to see who programmed the most efficient bot. And if we get to that point there would be no reason why human players would even be bothered trying to compete in the events.
Yes. But not as efficient as there is no “infinite chroniton loop” from galaxy and you run out of crafting items as they drain resources. Plus they are not as time consuming as skirmishes which take like 2-3 minutes each set.
As I see it skirmishes set themselves up for bots because not only are they repetitive, it rewards you for the repetition with Chron, honour and credits (as well as VP) plus they take a lot of time to run, relatively speaking, have the exact same “tap sequence” each time (making macro programming really easy) and can be run infinitely as long as you occasionally refresh your intel by running Warp 10 space missions.
The other good place (IMO) for macros (having seen that source coding as well) is Voyages where you can run them overnight every two hours. But that has not been seen as an issue as it’s not in an event.
Sadly, (for me) you can’t run these things on an iPhone. But you can code simple macros on your android phone (or emulator).
Now where’s my free water?
Good to know I can beat a machine in a Galaxy event. Just gotta do the work. And if you live anywhere near Chicago we will be having lots of free water just falling from the sky here shortly
Hybrids are almost getting to the point you can have multiple people with enough prefarmed items and/or chrons to craft for 48 hours.
There is less motivation for people not going for top ranks, but I can see them becoming an issue for top 3-5.
Yeah that’s a good point since you would only need enough resources for two days versus four.
I’m not sure about Chicago but collecting that “free water from the sky” is actually technically illegal in many states... kid you not... I can look it up for you if you’re curious.
So NO... I will still get my free water from the Burger King that Banjo frequents... as I am a law abiding free loading citizen.