Another thing about expeditions I find really off-putting: to do them properly, you pretty much cannot play the rest of the game. You are only shooting yourself in the foot if you send out your shuttles (figure an average of 3 crew per shuttle, times number of shuttles) or send out a voyage (12 more crew). If you have four shuttles, you are removing an average of 24 of your best crew from your pool of available crew. And honestly for me, that is stressful, because I know my job, and this event structure prevents me from doing my job, and failing at my job is stressful!
I would suggest you reconsider how you view Expeditions vis a vis your regular game play. My approach has always been to alternate running a ticket with my full roster, then sending out a wave of shuttles. During the three hours those shuttles are out, I can do anything else in the game. The Gauntlet resets every four hours, so that can easily be incorporated into your schedule to be done either when the shuttles go out or come back.
While my shuttles are out, I can also do nothing with the game at all. Remember, you fatigue along with your crew and you gotta account for that, too!
Yes, that still leaves Voyages. I would suggest using the iampicard Crew Management tool if you're not already doing that. Put together a crew that doesn't include anyone you want on hand for the event, and just accept however long that Voyage can run. You can go for the 14:00 Voyage on Monday. In the interim, even just a handful of 4:00-6:00 voyages are sufficient for bringing in resources.
Expeditions used to require the most thought and skill.
How do you pick your crew for early missions and still have enough crew for the hardest missions. How many times do you try for the same final star knowing your exhausting your crew even more and limiting your ability to finish other missions. What crew do you use that have the right secondary skills to be able clear the mission without exhausting crew you don't want to exhaust.
But then players thought things should be automatic. DB continued to make expedition events easier and easier until they now require no thought and are now mindless grinds like other events.
The result, players that hated expedition events still hate them because they're not as brain dead as skirmish events, and players that used to like the one event that required strategy are now left with a no-strategy mindless grind.
Some of y'all don't seem to understand why Expeditions are appealing, so I'll break it down. There are two key elements.
Growth of Crew
Before Expeditions were relegated to sporadic Hybrid status, they were a handy barometer for how one's crew was developing. Because they can use your entire roster, they're a truer demonstration of how your crew has come along than the other event formats. It can be genuinely gratifying to see one's progress in anything, and in Timelines, this was one of the clearest and most rewarding looks at that.
Other Players' Whining
Is it petty? Yep. But watching the forum overrun with spoiled players bemoaning that they have to (gasp!) play through missions instead of just warping them like they do all the time while you're taking the time to grind it out is delicious. Expedition is the least Pay-to-Win format there is. Either you're willing to sit down and invest your time or you're not. A Top 1000 finish in an Expedition feels legitimately earned, and in part because so many of our fellow players are comically lazy. Yeah, this is some kind of working-class pride thing. And it's fantastic.
Skirmishes require more work than expeditions but you get to see ships explode and get honor and items. Not sure expedition lovers win the not whining awards. We expedition haters whine for the 4 days expeditions are going a year but the expedition lovers whine there not more expedition events for the other 361.
Expeditions used to require the most thought and skill.
How do you pick your crew for early missions and still have enough crew for the hardest missions. How many times do you try for the same final star knowing your exhausting your crew even more and limiting your ability to finish other missions. What crew do you use that have the right secondary skills to be able clear the mission without exhausting crew you don't want to exhaust.
But then players thought things should be automatic. DB continued to make expedition events easier and easier until they now require no thought and are now mindless grinds like other events.
The result, players that hated expedition events still hate them because they're not as brain dead as skirmish events, and players that used to like the one event that required strategy are now left with a no-strategy mindless grind.
I don't think enough players see it, or will admit to it if they do, but Expeditions were more gratifying before VP drops were guaranteed for critical success nodes. I'll readily agree that having to replay the same mission a dozen times just to get one node to finally drop was too much, but the Galaxy Event increased chance mechanism should have been a sufficient compromise. Removing the guaranteed VP drop--and losing crew to the attrition of having to replay to get it--would nullify a certain amount of the Expedition repetition.
I also think it'd be interesting if which nodes dropped VP changed for each difficulty.
Some of y'all don't seem to understand why Expeditions are appealing, so I'll break it down. There are two key elements.
Growth of Crew
Before Expeditions were relegated to sporadic Hybrid status, they were a handy barometer for how one's crew was developing. Because they can use your entire roster, they're a truer demonstration of how your crew has come along than the other event formats. It can be genuinely gratifying to see one's progress in anything, and in Timelines, this was one of the clearest and most rewarding looks at that.
Other Players' Whining
Is it petty? Yep. But watching the forum overrun with spoiled players bemoaning that they have to (gasp!) play through missions instead of just warping them like they do all the time while you're taking the time to grind it out is delicious. Expedition is the least Pay-to-Win format there is. Either you're willing to sit down and invest your time or you're not. A Top 1000 finish in an Expedition feels legitimately earned, and in part because so many of our fellow players are comically lazy. Yeah, this is some kind of working-class pride thing. And it's fantastic.
Skirmishes require more work than expeditions but you get to see ships explode and get honor and items.
I dig Skirmishes. They're basically Expeditions but with ships, and I am 100% down with the lucrative bonus items from the first four battles per match. I'd gladly welcome some Honor and other stuff peppered into Expeditions!
Not sure expedition lovers win the not whining awards. We expedition haters whine for the 4 days expeditions are going a year but the expedition lovers whine there not more expedition events for the other 361.
When we whine on those 361 days about wanting more Expeditions, you still whine about not wanting them. When you whine on the four days we get them, we get to gloat. That's four days of the year where one of us is gloating and it's our side, so QED, Expeditions are great.
I appreciate How it requires thought. I also appreciate using normally ignored crew. It does get very tedious after a while. It is also very difficult for new players with small crews.
Expeditions used to require the most thought and skill.
How do you pick your crew for early missions and still have enough crew for the hardest missions. How many times do you try for the same final star knowing your exhausting your crew even more and limiting your ability to finish other missions. What crew do you use that have the right secondary skills to be able clear the mission without exhausting crew you don't want to exhaust.
But then players thought things should be automatic. DB continued to make expedition events easier and easier until they now require no thought and are now mindless grinds like other events.
The result, players that hated expedition events still hate them because they're not as brain dead as skirmish events, and players that used to like the one event that required strategy are now left with a no-strategy mindless grind.
I don't think enough players see it, or will admit to it if they do, but Expeditions were more gratifying before VP drops were guaranteed for critical success nodes. I'll readily agree that having to replay the same mission a dozen times just to get one node to finally drop was too much, but the Galaxy Event increased chance mechanism should have been a sufficient compromise. Removing the guaranteed VP drop--and losing crew to the attrition of having to replay to get it--would nullify a certain amount of the Expedition repetition.
I also think it'd be interesting if which nodes dropped VP changed for each difficulty.
I would be against going back to nodes that don't drop unless you hit them many times. Made them too intensive and frustrating. It was kind of fun to use different crew and strategies but it made your hands fall off and disadvantaged too greatly those without lots of crew. I do like the idea of different lvls having different nodes though. Even better if DB took it further. Have one mission you play for one ticket and have a different mission to play for the other two missions. Three different missions being sure to encompass lots of different combinations. DB could even set it up so each of the three is catered to one of the event crew. So there is great benefit to having all the event crew.Maybe it would cause too many glitches but it would definitely make expeditions more enjoyable.
I appreciate How it requires thought. I also appreciate using normally ignored crew. It does get very tedious after a while. It is also very difficult for new players with small crews.
Every event is difficult for new players. Faction event, you don't have enough bonus crew. Skirmish event, you don't have a level 10 ship. Galaxy event, you're spending chrons on your crew so you don't have capacity to pre-farm.
Players improve and can then do better. That's how games work. If everything was designed for new players there would be no reason to improve your crew.
Expeditions used to require the most thought and skill.
How do you pick your crew for early missions and still have enough crew for the hardest missions. How many times do you try for the same final star knowing your exhausting your crew even more and limiting your ability to finish other missions. What crew do you use that have the right secondary skills to be able clear the mission without exhausting crew you don't want to exhaust.
But then players thought things should be automatic. DB continued to make expedition events easier and easier until they now require no thought and are now mindless grinds like other events.
The result, players that hated expedition events still hate them because they're not as brain dead as skirmish events, and players that used to like the one event that required strategy are now left with a no-strategy mindless grind.
I don't think enough players see it, or will admit to it if they do, but Expeditions were more gratifying before VP drops were guaranteed for critical success nodes. I'll readily agree that having to replay the same mission a dozen times just to get one node to finally drop was too much, but the Galaxy Event increased chance mechanism should have been a sufficient compromise. Removing the guaranteed VP drop--and losing crew to the attrition of having to replay to get it--would nullify a certain amount of the Expedition repetition.
I also think it'd be interesting if which nodes dropped VP changed for each difficulty.
I would be against going back to nodes that don't drop unless you hit them many times. Made them too intensive and frustrating. It was kind of fun to use different crew and strategies but it made your hands fall off and disadvantaged too greatly those without lots of crew. I do like the idea of different lvls having different nodes though. Even better if DB took it further. Have one mission you play for one ticket and have a different mission to play for the other two missions. Three different missions being sure to encompass lots of different combinations. DB could even set it up so each of the three is catered to one of the event crew. So there is great benefit to having all the event crew.Maybe it would cause too many glitches but it would definitely make expeditions more enjoyable.
Worth remembering that the pro-Expedition faction has always been driven in large part by F2P/VIP 0 players--i.e., the ones with the smallest crew size and ergo most "disadvantaged". I honestly much more enjoyed having one hour to use my crew of 30 far more than I enjoy having an entire day to use a crew of 190. There's something to be said for limits. They bring focus to things. The current Expedition model is entirely too open-ended.
I wonder if the answer might not be to have us designate a specific pool of crew to use in each Expedition ticket, a la the Gauntlet. At the beginning of each ticket, we'd get to select, say, 30 crew members. For the sake of minimizing aggravation, that pool would be automatically re-selected for us at the start of our next ticket, so we could make minor adjustments each time instead of having to go through and pick each one all over again each time (a la Skirmish crew selection).
To step aside from debating the merits of the Expedition format, I'd just like to note this delightful moment in "Using This Character Against Itself" shenanigans:
To step aside from debating the merits of the Expedition format, I'd just like to note this delightful moment in "Using This Character Against Itself" shenanigans:
With the bonus traits being crafty and Ktarian, this might have been done on purpose. It's still funny though
I don’t mind expeditions. It’s pretty easy after the first time, I basically know what crew I’m using for the bonus and what crew I’m using as throw away place holders to not burn bonus crew. It goes pretty quickly now.
That being said, I’m by no means going for it, I’ve used my tickets today and I’ll bang out the other three in the morning. I get what I get.
Luckily i concentrated on the Skirmish part for all the bonus goodies. Since i'm skipping Expedition, I've been pushed down to rank 400 already, losing over 150 ranks, so the people spending all their time on the Expedition part will take over my previous ranking bracket, making me lose out on 10 super rare trainers. Such tragic loss
[GER - SF] Star Fleet - recruiting active captains with event participation. Our Starbase is level 134 and we use the Line App (optional) for spam, bragging, jokes, motivation and sharing tactics. German language.
I'll say this much: like my forum friend @DavideBooks has hinted at, a percentage of us who currently do not like expeditions do see that they could be better with a few changes. And since @Travis S McClain has drawn the comparison between them and skirmishes, let me explicitly connect the dots to hopefully strike terra firma on common ground.
Could you imagine how horrible skirmishes would be if we had to select all 4 battle stations before EVERY space battle? That perfectly encapsulates why I currently VERY MUCH dislike expeditions. I do not know what the solution is as apparently the thing that people like about expeditions is the need to sift through ALL your crew to use them all, but to those of us that dread expeditions, this is why. I fully expect the first time through to take forever as we encounter the missions for the first time and have to plan how best to get through them, but with no way to lock in choices for the future like we can with skirmishes, I know I am having to re-invent the wheel EVERY time I replay, so that is why I am not a fan.
I didn’t even get all of the stars on my first ticket before remembering that I don’t really care for Expeditions. This wasn’t the case for the last two, but I needed to clear thresholds then and that was not the case this time due to the magic of Skirmish events.
I'll say this much: like my forum friend @DavideBooks has hinted at, a percentage of us who currently do not like expeditions do see that they could be better with a few changes. And since @Travis S McClain has drawn the comparison between them and skirmishes, let me explicitly connect the dots to hopefully strike terra firma on common ground.
Could you imagine how horrible skirmishes would be if we had to select all 4 battle stations before EVERY space battle? That perfectly encapsulates why I currently VERY MUCH dislike expeditions. I do not know what the solution is as apparently the thing that people like about expeditions is the need to sift through ALL your crew to use them all, but to those of us that dread expeditions, this is why. I fully expect the first time through to take forever as we encounter the missions for the first time and have to plan how best to get through them, but with no way to lock in choices for the future like we can with skirmishes, I know I am having to re-invent the wheel EVERY time I replay, so that is why I am not a fan.
It's not "the need to sift through ALL your crew to use them all" that's appealing. No one likes the crew selection process. As @AviTrek will attest, DB has diluted Expeditions by capitulating too much to court the anti- crowd at times. Improved crew selection, however, is one feature request that we've all pleaded for, time and again over the last two years.
Expeditions used to require the most thought and skill.
How do you pick your crew for early missions and still have enough crew for the hardest missions. How many times do you try for the same final star knowing your exhausting your crew even more and limiting your ability to finish other missions. What crew do you use that have the right secondary skills to be able clear the mission without exhausting crew you don't want to exhaust.
But then players thought things should be automatic. DB continued to make expedition events easier and easier until they now require no thought and are now mindless grinds like other events.
The result, players that hated expedition events still hate them because they're not as brain dead as skirmish events, and players that used to like the one event that required strategy are now left with a no-strategy mindless grind.
I don't think enough players see it, or will admit to it if they do, but Expeditions were more gratifying before VP drops were guaranteed for critical success nodes. I'll readily agree that having to replay the same mission a dozen times just to get one node to finally drop was too much, but the Galaxy Event increased chance mechanism should have been a sufficient compromise. Removing the guaranteed VP drop--and losing crew to the attrition of having to replay to get it--would nullify a certain amount of the Expedition repetition.
I also think it'd be interesting if which nodes dropped VP changed for each difficulty.
I would be against going back to nodes that don't drop unless you hit them many times. Made them too intensive and frustrating. It was kind of fun to use different crew and strategies but it made your hands fall off and disadvantaged too greatly those without lots of crew. I do like the idea of different lvls having different nodes though. Even better if DB took it further. Have one mission you play for one ticket and have a different mission to play for the other two missions. Three different missions being sure to encompass lots of different combinations. DB could even set it up so each of the three is catered to one of the event crew. So there is great benefit to having all the event crew.Maybe it would cause too many glitches but it would definitely make expeditions more enjoyable.
Worth remembering that the pro-Expedition faction has always been driven in large part by F2P/VIP 0 players--i.e., the ones with the smallest crew size and ergo most "disadvantaged". I honestly much more enjoyed having one hour to use my crew of 30 far more than I enjoy having an entire day to use a crew of 190. There's something to be said for limits. They bring focus to things. The current Expedition model is entirely too open-ended.
I wonder if the answer might not be to have us designate a specific pool of crew to use in each Expedition ticket, a la the Gauntlet. At the beginning of each ticket, we'd get to select, say, 30 crew members. For the sake of minimizing aggravation, that pool would be automatically re-selected for us at the start of our next ticket, so we could make minor adjustments each time instead of having to go through and pick each one all over again each time (a la Skirmish crew selection).
With the play in reverse strategy, I could probably clear every star with 10 crew at this point. Etana, Demora, Troi, and 7 other crew to cover the non-starred nodes.
I'll say this much: like my forum friend @DavideBooks has hinted at, a percentage of us who currently do not like expeditions do see that they could be better with a few changes. And since @Travis S McClain has drawn the comparison between them and skirmishes, let me explicitly connect the dots to hopefully strike terra firma on common ground.
Could you imagine how horrible skirmishes would be if we had to select all 4 battle stations before EVERY space battle? That perfectly encapsulates why I currently VERY MUCH dislike expeditions. I do not know what the solution is as apparently the thing that people like about expeditions is the need to sift through ALL your crew to use them all, but to those of us that dread expeditions, this is why. I fully expect the first time through to take forever as we encounter the missions for the first time and have to plan how best to get through them, but with no way to lock in choices for the future like we can with skirmishes, I know I am having to re-invent the wheel EVERY time I replay, so that is why I am not a fan.
It's not "the need to sift through ALL your crew to use them all" that's appealing. No one likes the crew selection process. As @AviTrek will attest, DB has diluted Expeditions by capitulating too much to court the anti- crowd at times. Improved crew selection, however, is one feature request that we've all pleaded for, time and again over the last two years.
I apologize for my apparent poor word choice. I had hoped you could have sifted through to find the meaning I was trying to communicate, that being that many of us who currently dislike this event type would probably join you in enjoying them if we could improve the crew selection process with regard to having the game remember our previous choices like it does for skirmishes.
That said, I still think my words were accurate. It might not be true for you personally, but I've sifted through a lot of the forums for this week and one thing a lot of expedition fans seem to love is that they get to use all their crew.
I will toss it back to you and you can determine how the rest of this thread goes. I think after the initial dread posts, a lot of us have chilled and have tried to engage and be diplomatic and I was serious in trying to find common ground for the sake of the community and civility. You have nominated yourself in here as the ultimate expedition defender and that is great, I respect that, and maybe I'm reading into this something that was not intended, but I took your words as a rejection of my olive branch, so if you would like to continue this conversation I have given you all the tools with which to make an informed decision as to the tenor you wish that conversation to take.
I think you have made some great points and have done a good job communicating your position, and as such I think you have won some folks over. I hope you can recognize this and perhaps pump the brakes a tad.
AviTrek - I don't know what you mean. Sorry, please explain. Thanks!
My first expedition event I was only 2 months in and I couldn't get close on any but the first epic level. Do as much as is possible for you, then close the ticket and start another. You will never be competitive at the early stages, but you can get so later. Just do what you can.
DB, it's obvious that players are still confused by the "Cancel Ticket" button. (Not only here on the forums, but in the LINE chat for our group of fleets, someone always inevitably asks about it whenever an Expedition event runs.)
We've mentioned this here I don't know how many times now over the past couple of years, that something along the lines of "End Ticket" or "Finish Current Ticket" would be much more self-explanatory, and not cause players who are new to Expeditions to think they're doing something wrong — but nothing has been done. It's a simple text fix! Why hasn't anyone there cared enough to make this change (which I assume would be very easy to implement)?
Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing. ~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
Comments
I would suggest you reconsider how you view Expeditions vis a vis your regular game play. My approach has always been to alternate running a ticket with my full roster, then sending out a wave of shuttles. During the three hours those shuttles are out, I can do anything else in the game. The Gauntlet resets every four hours, so that can easily be incorporated into your schedule to be done either when the shuttles go out or come back.
While my shuttles are out, I can also do nothing with the game at all. Remember, you fatigue along with your crew and you gotta account for that, too!
Yes, that still leaves Voyages. I would suggest using the iampicard Crew Management tool if you're not already doing that. Put together a crew that doesn't include anyone you want on hand for the event, and just accept however long that Voyage can run. You can go for the 14:00 Voyage on Monday. In the interim, even just a handful of 4:00-6:00 voyages are sufficient for bringing in resources.
How do you pick your crew for early missions and still have enough crew for the hardest missions. How many times do you try for the same final star knowing your exhausting your crew even more and limiting your ability to finish other missions. What crew do you use that have the right secondary skills to be able clear the mission without exhausting crew you don't want to exhaust.
But then players thought things should be automatic. DB continued to make expedition events easier and easier until they now require no thought and are now mindless grinds like other events.
The result, players that hated expedition events still hate them because they're not as brain dead as skirmish events, and players that used to like the one event that required strategy are now left with a no-strategy mindless grind.
I don't think enough players see it, or will admit to it if they do, but Expeditions were more gratifying before VP drops were guaranteed for critical success nodes. I'll readily agree that having to replay the same mission a dozen times just to get one node to finally drop was too much, but the Galaxy Event increased chance mechanism should have been a sufficient compromise. Removing the guaranteed VP drop--and losing crew to the attrition of having to replay to get it--would nullify a certain amount of the Expedition repetition.
I also think it'd be interesting if which nodes dropped VP changed for each difficulty.
I dig Skirmishes. They're basically Expeditions but with ships, and I am 100% down with the lucrative bonus items from the first four battles per match. I'd gladly welcome some Honor and other stuff peppered into Expeditions!
When we whine on those 361 days about wanting more Expeditions, you still whine about not wanting them. When you whine on the four days we get them, we get to gloat. That's four days of the year where one of us is gloating and it's our side, so QED, Expeditions are great.
Every event is difficult for new players. Faction event, you don't have enough bonus crew. Skirmish event, you don't have a level 10 ship. Galaxy event, you're spending chrons on your crew so you don't have capacity to pre-farm.
Players improve and can then do better. That's how games work. If everything was designed for new players there would be no reason to improve your crew.
Worth remembering that the pro-Expedition faction has always been driven in large part by F2P/VIP 0 players--i.e., the ones with the smallest crew size and ergo most "disadvantaged". I honestly much more enjoyed having one hour to use my crew of 30 far more than I enjoy having an entire day to use a crew of 190. There's something to be said for limits. They bring focus to things. The current Expedition model is entirely too open-ended.
I wonder if the answer might not be to have us designate a specific pool of crew to use in each Expedition ticket, a la the Gauntlet. At the beginning of each ticket, we'd get to select, say, 30 crew members. For the sake of minimizing aggravation, that pool would be automatically re-selected for us at the start of our next ticket, so we could make minor adjustments each time instead of having to go through and pick each one all over again each time (a la Skirmish crew selection).
I think you've successfully identified some common ground on which we can all agree.
With the bonus traits being crafty and Ktarian, this might have been done on purpose. It's still funny though
Yes, this event has been Star Trek: The Search for Demora. Over and over.
She drops into the Security Abyss pretty quick........
That being said, I’m by no means going for it, I’ve used my tickets today and I’ll bang out the other three in the morning. I get what I get.
Could you imagine how horrible skirmishes would be if we had to select all 4 battle stations before EVERY space battle? That perfectly encapsulates why I currently VERY MUCH dislike expeditions. I do not know what the solution is as apparently the thing that people like about expeditions is the need to sift through ALL your crew to use them all, but to those of us that dread expeditions, this is why. I fully expect the first time through to take forever as we encounter the missions for the first time and have to plan how best to get through them, but with no way to lock in choices for the future like we can with skirmishes, I know I am having to re-invent the wheel EVERY time I replay, so that is why I am not a fan.
It's not "the need to sift through ALL your crew to use them all" that's appealing. No one likes the crew selection process. As @AviTrek will attest, DB has diluted Expeditions by capitulating too much to court the anti- crowd at times. Improved crew selection, however, is one feature request that we've all pleaded for, time and again over the last two years.
With the play in reverse strategy, I could probably clear every star with 10 crew at this point. Etana, Demora, Troi, and 7 other crew to cover the non-starred nodes.
I apologize for my apparent poor word choice. I had hoped you could have sifted through to find the meaning I was trying to communicate, that being that many of us who currently dislike this event type would probably join you in enjoying them if we could improve the crew selection process with regard to having the game remember our previous choices like it does for skirmishes.
That said, I still think my words were accurate. It might not be true for you personally, but I've sifted through a lot of the forums for this week and one thing a lot of expedition fans seem to love is that they get to use all their crew.
I will toss it back to you and you can determine how the rest of this thread goes. I think after the initial dread posts, a lot of us have chilled and have tried to engage and be diplomatic and I was serious in trying to find common ground for the sake of the community and civility. You have nominated yourself in here as the ultimate expedition defender and that is great, I respect that, and maybe I'm reading into this something that was not intended, but I took your words as a rejection of my olive branch, so if you would like to continue this conversation I have given you all the tools with which to make an informed decision as to the tenor you wish that conversation to take.
I think you have made some great points and have done a good job communicating your position, and as such I think you have won some folks over. I hope you can recognize this and perhaps pump the brakes a tad.
Then cancel your ticket and start again on your next ticket.
My first expedition event I was only 2 months in and I couldn't get close on any but the first epic level. Do as much as is possible for you, then close the ticket and start another. You will never be competitive at the early stages, but you can get so later. Just do what you can.
We've mentioned this here I don't know how many times now over the past couple of years, that something along the lines of "End Ticket" or "Finish Current Ticket" would be much more self-explanatory, and not cause players who are new to Expeditions to think they're doing something wrong — but nothing has been done. It's a simple text fix! Why hasn't anyone there cared enough to make this change (which I assume would be very easy to implement)?
Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"