I'll say it again, because I feel its a fair solution.....give us a reroll.
1x free re-roll per behold, suppliment this with earnable re-roll tokens like voyage ones
A re-roll on a super rare behold would be a waste of time for many long term players who have the vast majority of those characters immortalised. It has been suggested that the honour be an option when an all immortalised behold is presented and that would be fair to all players. The amount on honour would have to be very significantly above what is currently available when dismissing crew.
I'll say it again, because I feel its a fair solution.....give us a reroll.
1x free re-roll per behold, suppliment this with earnable re-roll tokens like voyage ones
A re-roll on a super rare behold would be a waste of time for many long term players who have the vast majority of those characters immortalised. It has been suggested that the honour be an option when an all immortalised behold is presented and that would be fair to all players. The amount on honour would have to be very significantly above what is currently available when dismissing crew.
But what about the new to mid term players who want to earn a 4th star to work towards the achievements or who are looking to freeze crew to gain more space??? This is a card collecting game with over 800 cards and less than 100 crew spaces (unkess you choose to pay)
With a re-roll option you can either bank the honor 1st time or spin again and if still no luck, then bank the honor on the 2nd roll.
Earnable Re-roll Tokens could be exclusive to 5 star beholds maybe and cap use at 2/3 re-rolls per behold? Make the tokens attainable but hard to get to make the re-roll decision a worthwhile one.
I apologize if I underestimated how many FFF Beholds/BeGolds people are getting. Did someone say 106 this year, so far?
Definitely means they are a problem.........
Well there's a reasonable amount you can spend/target for that many.
Let's assume a player gets 350k on every event this year. That's 52 packs, lets say 75 accounting for Galaxies (rough estimate).
Campaign = another 6 packs, thats 81.
So that's 25 packs from our target, reasonable when purchasing a couple of LTO's no it's not a huge deal.
edit: I just read "this year so far"...ok that might be delving into purchasing premium packs with DIL straight up territory...
Just chiming in to say that we get that this is frustrating, and we are exploring ways on how to improve things.
That would be excellent. Thank you.
Edit: I would happily pay a nominal fee in Dil or Chrons to Re-roll. Mabye Chrons makes sense since you are messing with the Time Portal.
I always have tons of chrons, one free spin seems fair, the rest probably needs to be on a sliding scale. Probably really only affects the 1% of whales to be honest whom would just keep rolling until they got something they needed. Personally I am not too bothered when I get a SR behold as it happens virtually every pull as I have most of them already besides the occasional SR in Tuesday packs. Its a kick in the teath when you get a FF gold though, perhaps the honour rates need to be looked at. This issue goes away if I could even get 1% of what I needed for a citation air-locking a gold (at present it is 550 honour or 0.011% of the citation cost).
Just chiming in to say that we get that this is frustrating, and we are exploring ways on how to improve things.
That would be excellent. Thank you.
Edit: I would happily pay a nominal fee in Dil or Chrons to Re-roll. Mabye Chrons makes sense since you are messing with the Time Portal.
I always have tons of chrons, one free spin seems fair, the rest probably needs to be on a sliding scale. Probably really only affects the 1% of whales to be honest whom would just keep rolling until they got something they needed. Personally I am not too bothered when I get a SR behold as it happens virtually every pull as I have most of them already besides the occasional SR in Tuesday packs. Its a kick in the teath when you get a FF gold though, perhaps the honour rates need to be looked at. This issue goes away if I could even get 1% of what I needed for a citation air-locking a gold (at present it is 550 honour or 0.011% of the citation cost).
Hey Jim, you might want to recheck your calculation 😄
Of the 332 4* crew in the game, I have Immortalized 307, I do not own 15 (most from Tuesday packs and Voyage exclusives) and have 17 in various states of completion. This leaves me a 7.5% chance of actually getting a 4* I need (if they are in the portal). So I don't remember the last time I got a useful Behold but at this stage of the game I kind of expect that.
Could a simple instruction be added so that the three "Current" statuses don't all match? So you couldn't have three 5-star options, or three not-owned options, etc. That way you'd always have the option to add a star, as well as eliminating all-5* begolds. And you'd still have the possibility to start a duplicate, as some people want.
The only problem here is for new players without any legendaries, where "Not Owned" should be the only possibility! Easily fixed by giving away Shinzon at the end of the tutorial.
If I had gotten one 4* citation for every time I had an all-immortalized behold in just the first 3 months of this year alone, I would have 106 citations.¹
Not that I'd complain about that, although there's no way I'd need even 1/10th as many as that, either.
¹ I do a screenshot every time this happens, so I have absolute verification of this number
I appreciate that you provided a citation. No pun intended.
Sadly there can never be a 'pick one you don't own option' because certain players would break the coding logic.
Also, giving a cite would be very bad for their revenue, because again - players at the complete top of the spending and card-owning pyramid would simply rank top 1500 every event, without spending a penny, and then use 4 free cites from previous beholds to FF the new card - thus spending zero money on event packs. Hopefully that clearly paints the logic as to why that option would never happen.
I see two possible solutions that have been mentioned for the last, well, forever, and have still resonated in this thread:
*ONLY* when a behold is triggered where all 3 options are FROZEN FROZEN FROZEN:
1) Re-Roll mechanic where a new slot of 3 of the same rarity is presented, no guarantees of what the next 3 will be owned/not owned/frozen. First re-roll is free, beyond that it costs DIL
2) Add button to the bottom where the 're-roll' button would be to simply say '800 Honor' or '2750 Honor' for the value of a 4/4 or 5/5. That's certainly better than what you would get airlocking just the one copy, it still allows you to pick an already frozen card if you are doing a duplicate, and it puts you closer to the next cite.
I do not think this should be instituted for beholds where it is simply all-owned. While that does sting, the issue there is that those cards still reside in your active roster - meaning you haven't leveled them yet or you are getting enough use out of them to keep them from your cryo. They aren't 'worthless' to your gameplay, thus they still have some perceived value. When an all-Frozen behold is triggered, that should show that the 3 cards presented don't add enough value to the player to even use them.
To make this work, one bit of coding logic would have to change around the vault/sorting, and that is if a person owns multiple copies of the same card and freezes one, they show as "FROZEN" in beholds or in the vault. So it would have to be able to differentiate that as well.
If the behold generator could be tweaked so that at least one of the selections is someone you don't have fully fused, it would actually improve sales. Think about it - if you knew you'd get something useful (or at least new) for your money / dilithium, you'd be more apt to buy it. I used to love the "10- for $9.99" packs, they really helped me build up my crew. But now, when I have about 80% of the SR FF, those packs usually get me maybe 1 or 2 SR +1 or the occasional begold. I now wait for the "15-for $9.99", which makes things a little bit more palatable. As for the weekly events, if I'm not going for the 1,500 or less rank to get that 5*, I'm out at 130K.
But if the 10-packs were more promising, I'd play more - which means I'd spend more dilithium, buy more of the "10 for $10" deals, and go for the specials, as I would now see some value for my investment. I know you folks are in this for the money, but sometimes you can get more if you give a little bit more back.
Thank Dog we have people here actually suggesting that Tipping Point MONETIZE the "solution" to this rampant problem.........
Diminishing Returns is a naturally occurring dilemma. I'm not exactly sure it's a "rampant" problem. You obtain enough packs via whatever means, you will run into diminishing returns. The fact that Wicked Realms is even looking into this is a positive. I'm perfectly willing to pay a premium to reroll a gold behold that has all frozen/FF options, as gold beholds don't happen often, but it **tsk tsk** when it does.
also, I don't know if "Tipping Point" is something said in jest, but the supervisory company is called Tilting Point.
Sadly there can never be a 'pick one you don't own option' because certain players would break the coding logic.
Also, giving a cite would be very bad for their revenue, because again - players at the complete top of the spending and card-owning pyramid would simply rank top 1500 every event, without spending a penny, and then use 4 free cites from previous beholds to FF the new card - thus spending zero money on event packs. Hopefully that clearly paints the logic as to why that option would never happen.
I see two possible solutions that have been mentioned for the last, well, forever, and have still resonated in this thread:
*ONLY* when a behold is triggered where all 3 options are FROZEN FROZEN FROZEN:
1) Re-Roll mechanic where a new slot of 3 of the same rarity is presented, no guarantees of what the next 3 will be owned/not owned/frozen. First re-roll is free, beyond that it costs DIL
2) Add button to the bottom where the 're-roll' button would be to simply say '800 Honor' or '2750 Honor' for the value of a 4/4 or 5/5. That's certainly better than what you would get airlocking just the one copy, it still allows you to pick an already frozen card if you are doing a duplicate, and it puts you closer to the next cite.
I do not think this should be instituted for beholds where it is simply all-owned. While that does sting, the issue there is that those cards still reside in your active roster - meaning you haven't leveled them yet or you are getting enough use out of them to keep them from your cryo. They aren't 'worthless' to your gameplay, thus they still have some perceived value. When an all-Frozen behold is triggered, that should show that the 3 cards presented don't add enough value to the player to even use them.
To make this work, one bit of coding logic would have to change around the vault/sorting, and that is if a person owns multiple copies of the same card and freezes one, they show as "FROZEN" in beholds or in the vault. So it would have to be able to differentiate that as well.
The flaw I find with option #1 is that for people like me, with nearly 90 immortal 4/4s in my active roster (main cast, high bonus crew potential) is that I would simply freeze them all. In effect, it would diminish the need to purchase extra crew slots. Not that it would bother me, but I do believe it would result in less crew slots purchased.
After ploughing time and resources in to the event to reach the premium behold, this is what I'm rewarded with....not impressed.
I only have 382 cards ff out of the 850 odd currently on offer. So less than half, and most of those are 5 and 4 star cards.
I've said it before but these premium behold options REALLY need a revamp of some sort. Its not a fair system at all and makes me want to not bother much going forward. Especially as its happening more and more often.
Yep. Pretty much every behold for me os like that now.
I also thought that was an interesting turn of phrase. Wondered if it was a common thing that I hadn't heard, so I turned to my old friend the Google machine, to help educate me. Apparently it's a Septani original, but there were a few things I found online with that name — including a couple of websites, a production company, and an aperitif.
LOL I can only take partial credit, it was inspired by a line from the early-season Seinfeld episode The Library. Philip Baker Hall masterfully played the hardboiled, library investigation officer Mr. Bookman. After giving another one of his over-the-top performances, he exited a scene...leaving Jerry to muse, "That is one tough monkey."
"We are visitors on this planet. We are here for ninety or one-hundred years at the very most. During that period, we must try to do something good, something useful, with our lives. If you contribute to other people's happiness, you will find the true goal, the true meaning of life." ~ H.H. the 14th Dalai Lama
"The eyes...are the groin...of the face." ~ Dwight K. Schrute III
Offering a different opinion that I have mentioned in other threads:
Simply reference the big book, remove tier 8-10 legendary and super rares from the portal. Make these exclusive to voyages and standard pulls.
For voyages, after the 4hr mark, make super rares a bit more common reward from “supply caches”, “storage lockers” etc. and after the 8hr mark make legendaries possible drops (but don’t be stingy, tier 8-10 legendaries are nothing special, keep them on par with current super rare drop rates after the 8 hr mark)
This solves two problems, reducing behold options and occurrences of already immortalized crew by removing the bottom barrel cards which is helpful for people who have more developed crew, and this gives newer players a better chance of acquiring cards that will help their young rosters. Also, this gives better incentive for token/dilithium usage to extend voyages.
Premium portal packs should be chances at premium crew, which tier 8-10 are not. In my opinion.
Offering a different opinion that I have mentioned in other threads:
Simply reference the big book, remove tier 8-10 legendary and super rares from the portal. Make these exclusive to voyages and standard pulls.
For voyages, after the 4hr mark, make super rares a bit more common reward from “supply caches”, “storage lockers” etc. and after the 8hr mark make legendaries possible drops (but don’t be stingy, tier 8-10 legendaries are nothing special, keep them on par with current super rare drop rates after the 8 hr mark)
This solves two problems, reducing behold options and occurrences of already immortalized crew by removing the bottom barrel cards which is helpful for people who have more developed crew, and this gives newer players a better chance of acquiring cards that will help their young rosters. Also, this gives better incentive for token/dilithium usage to extend voyages.
Premium portal packs should be chances at premium crew, which tier 8-10 are not. In my opinion.
This is an awesome suggestion! Basically addresses the power creep issue in a really clean way. My one tweak is that tier 8-10 is arbitrary, probably would look to use drops by year, its the old crew that were weaker in general.
Offering a different opinion that I have mentioned in other threads:
Simply reference the big book, remove tier 8-10 legendary and super rares from the portal. Make these exclusive to voyages and standard pulls.
For voyages, after the 4hr mark, make super rares a bit more common reward from “supply caches”, “storage lockers” etc. and after the 8hr mark make legendaries possible drops (but don’t be stingy, tier 8-10 legendaries are nothing special, keep them on par with current super rare drop rates after the 8 hr mark)
This solves two problems, reducing behold options and occurrences of already immortalized crew by removing the bottom barrel cards which is helpful for people who have more developed crew, and this gives newer players a better chance of acquiring cards that will help their young rosters. Also, this gives better incentive for token/dilithium usage to extend voyages.
Premium portal packs should be chances at premium crew, which tier 8-10 are not. In my opinion.
This is an awesome suggestion! Basically addresses the power creep issue in a really clean way. My one tweak is that tier 8-10 is arbitrary, probably would look to use drops by year, its the old crew that were weaker in general.
As a co-author of the reference in question, I agree with you, don't use the Big Book, date of release would be better for this hypothetical. Realistically, they would never use a player-generated resource for any game mechanic, but also, we periodically re-evaluate and re-tier crew in the Book, so a card could go in and out of eligibility for that.
Just had the joy of all immortalized legendary beholds again. Took the 50 buck offer dilithium and pack offer and out of the 50 packs i got 6 legendary beholds
with 2/6 being all immortalized beholds. It‘s really a mood killer, 😐
Just chiming in to say that we get that this is frustrating, and we are exploring ways on how to improve things.
I seriously think (and sorry if this is said already I didn't read through each reply) that a single "re-roll" if the behold is all immortal is enough it would please most people. Yah maybe a re-roll COULD be all immortal too, but it would really make people less frustrated about having that choice made for them
Why do we take it for granted that a behold has to only be 3 choices? We have way more than double the crew since the game started. Why not make make beholds 6 choices instead? And get rid of straight super rare drops.
Let's dig a bit deeper. Of course established players hate the all-FF behold. But why? I'll posit that the issue is money. When the pack was free in the first place, then really what difference does it make? You get some (tiny) amount of honor while spending zilch. (Unless we're going to start putting valuations on our time spent playing the game to earn free packs... but let's agree not to go down that rabbit hole, ok?)
As soon as cash comes into the equation, a player may feel cheated. We see plenty of complaints in the forum about "I bought X packs and only got Y beholds with only Z useful cards". As a paying customer, there seems to be an expectation that a behold will yield something of tangible value (despite knowing that the system is based on RNG). Oddly, the clamor for expected tangible value from straight drops is not nearly as loud (though certainly that sentiment has occasionally been seen here, including in this thread).
So, could the issue be mitigated by TP keeping separate track of free vs paid-for packs? I'm asking this as a hypothetical from the players' perspective only, since I seriously doubt TP would implement the necessary coding/interface needed to present both options in the game (i.e., press this button to open your free packs and that button to open your paid packs). I'm just curious to see the level of consensus around the idea that money is the underlying source of the displeasure. (VIP0 players may have interesting perspectives on this.)
Let's dig a bit deeper. Of course established players hate the all-FF behold. But why? I'll posit that the issue is money. When the pack was free in the first place, then really what difference does it make? You get some (tiny) amount of honor while spending zilch. (Unless we're going to start putting valuations on our time spent playing the game to earn free packs... but let's agree not to go down that rabbit hole, ok?)
As soon as cash comes into the equation, a player may feel cheated. We see plenty of complaints in the forum about "I bought X packs and only got Y beholds with only Z useful cards". As a paying customer, there seems to be an expectation that a behold will yield something of tangible value (despite knowing that the system is based on RNG). Oddly, the clamor for expected tangible value from straight drops is not nearly as loud (though certainly that sentiment has occasionally been seen here, including in this thread).
So, could the issue be mitigated by TP keeping separate track of free vs paid-for packs? I'm asking this as a hypothetical from the players' perspective only, since I seriously doubt TP would implement the necessary coding/interface needed to present both options in the game (i.e., press this button to open your free packs and that button to open your paid packs). I'm just curious to see the level of consensus around the idea that money is the underlying source of the displeasure. (VIP0 players may have interesting perspectives on this.)
You raise some excellent points. I would think that VIP0 players might be grumpier about getting an all-immortal behold because they have fewer opportunities to have premium 10-packs to pull, rather than an expression of resources expended to obtain the packs.
For me, the biggest issue is just not being able to get crew I’d like to have. And it only gets harder as more crew are added to the game. I’ve never had Killy, First Officer Burnham, or Gary Seven pop up in a behold. And those are just a few that come to mind. All 3 have been in the portal for quite a while. I’ve gone 3-4 months in a row, multiple times, without a single begold. I’ve never gotten 2 begolds in a single 10 pull, yet I see people get 4 begolds in a single 10 pull here fairly often. And I think it’s frustrating to play events to 350k week after week for a 10 pull, and seeing a frozen super rare drop straight into the first slot and crush all hope for yet another week. I’m VIP 14 roughly twice over, so it’s not like I’ve never spent money on the game. But spending money on the game at this point makes me feel like a sucker, because I rarely get anything for it other than disappointment. If TP is cool with that, then I guess I have to be cool with it too.
Comments
Definitely means they are a problem.........
1x free re-roll per behold, suppliment this with earnable re-roll tokens like voyage ones
A re-roll on a super rare behold would be a waste of time for many long term players who have the vast majority of those characters immortalised. It has been suggested that the honour be an option when an all immortalised behold is presented and that would be fair to all players. The amount on honour would have to be very significantly above what is currently available when dismissing crew.
But what about the new to mid term players who want to earn a 4th star to work towards the achievements or who are looking to freeze crew to gain more space??? This is a card collecting game with over 800 cards and less than 100 crew spaces (unkess you choose to pay)
With a re-roll option you can either bank the honor 1st time or spin again and if still no luck, then bank the honor on the 2nd roll.
Earnable Re-roll Tokens could be exclusive to 5 star beholds maybe and cap use at 2/3 re-rolls per behold? Make the tokens attainable but hard to get to make the re-roll decision a worthwhile one.
That would be excellent. Thank you.
Edit: I would happily pay a nominal fee in Dil or Chrons to Re-roll. Mabye Chrons makes sense since you are messing with the Time Portal.
Well there's a reasonable amount you can spend/target for that many.
Let's assume a player gets 350k on every event this year. That's 52 packs, lets say 75 accounting for Galaxies (rough estimate).
Campaign = another 6 packs, thats 81.
So that's 25 packs from our target, reasonable when purchasing a couple of LTO's no it's not a huge deal.
edit: I just read "this year so far"...ok that might be delving into purchasing premium packs with DIL straight up territory...
Hey Jim, you might want to recheck your calculation 😄
The only problem here is for new players without any legendaries, where "Not Owned" should be the only possibility! Easily fixed by giving away Shinzon at the end of the tutorial.
I appreciate that you provided a citation. No pun intended.
Also, giving a cite would be very bad for their revenue, because again - players at the complete top of the spending and card-owning pyramid would simply rank top 1500 every event, without spending a penny, and then use 4 free cites from previous beholds to FF the new card - thus spending zero money on event packs. Hopefully that clearly paints the logic as to why that option would never happen.
I see two possible solutions that have been mentioned for the last, well, forever, and have still resonated in this thread:
*ONLY* when a behold is triggered where all 3 options are FROZEN FROZEN FROZEN:
1) Re-Roll mechanic where a new slot of 3 of the same rarity is presented, no guarantees of what the next 3 will be owned/not owned/frozen. First re-roll is free, beyond that it costs DIL
2) Add button to the bottom where the 're-roll' button would be to simply say '800 Honor' or '2750 Honor' for the value of a 4/4 or 5/5. That's certainly better than what you would get airlocking just the one copy, it still allows you to pick an already frozen card if you are doing a duplicate, and it puts you closer to the next cite.
I do not think this should be instituted for beholds where it is simply all-owned. While that does sting, the issue there is that those cards still reside in your active roster - meaning you haven't leveled them yet or you are getting enough use out of them to keep them from your cryo. They aren't 'worthless' to your gameplay, thus they still have some perceived value. When an all-Frozen behold is triggered, that should show that the 3 cards presented don't add enough value to the player to even use them.
To make this work, one bit of coding logic would have to change around the vault/sorting, and that is if a person owns multiple copies of the same card and freezes one, they show as "FROZEN" in beholds or in the vault. So it would have to be able to differentiate that as well.
But if the 10-packs were more promising, I'd play more - which means I'd spend more dilithium, buy more of the "10 for $10" deals, and go for the specials, as I would now see some value for my investment. I know you folks are in this for the money, but sometimes you can get more if you give a little bit more back.
Just sayin'.
Diminishing Returns is a naturally occurring dilemma. I'm not exactly sure it's a "rampant" problem. You obtain enough packs via whatever means, you will run into diminishing returns. The fact that Wicked Realms is even looking into this is a positive. I'm perfectly willing to pay a premium to reroll a gold behold that has all frozen/FF options, as gold beholds don't happen often, but it **tsk tsk** when it does.
also, I don't know if "Tipping Point" is something said in jest, but the supervisory company is called Tilting Point.
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The flaw I find with option #1 is that for people like me, with nearly 90 immortal 4/4s in my active roster (main cast, high bonus crew potential) is that I would simply freeze them all. In effect, it would diminish the need to purchase extra crew slots. Not that it would bother me, but I do believe it would result in less crew slots purchased.
Yep. Pretty much every behold for me os like that now.
LOL I can only take partial credit, it was inspired by a line from the early-season Seinfeld episode The Library. Philip Baker Hall masterfully played the hardboiled, library investigation officer Mr. Bookman. After giving another one of his over-the-top performances, he exited a scene...leaving Jerry to muse, "That is one tough monkey."
"The eyes...are the groin...of the face." ~ Dwight K. Schrute III
Simply reference the big book, remove tier 8-10 legendary and super rares from the portal. Make these exclusive to voyages and standard pulls.
For voyages, after the 4hr mark, make super rares a bit more common reward from “supply caches”, “storage lockers” etc. and after the 8hr mark make legendaries possible drops (but don’t be stingy, tier 8-10 legendaries are nothing special, keep them on par with current super rare drop rates after the 8 hr mark)
This solves two problems, reducing behold options and occurrences of already immortalized crew by removing the bottom barrel cards which is helpful for people who have more developed crew, and this gives newer players a better chance of acquiring cards that will help their young rosters. Also, this gives better incentive for token/dilithium usage to extend voyages.
Premium portal packs should be chances at premium crew, which tier 8-10 are not. In my opinion.
This is an awesome suggestion! Basically addresses the power creep issue in a really clean way. My one tweak is that tier 8-10 is arbitrary, probably would look to use drops by year, its the old crew that were weaker in general.
As a co-author of the reference in question, I agree with you, don't use the Big Book, date of release would be better for this hypothetical. Realistically, they would never use a player-generated resource for any game mechanic, but also, we periodically re-evaluate and re-tier crew in the Book, so a card could go in and out of eligibility for that.
with 2/6 being all immortalized beholds. It‘s really a mood killer, 😐
I seriously think (and sorry if this is said already I didn't read through each reply) that a single "re-roll" if the behold is all immortal is enough it would please most people. Yah maybe a re-roll COULD be all immortal too, but it would really make people less frustrated about having that choice made for them
As soon as cash comes into the equation, a player may feel cheated. We see plenty of complaints in the forum about "I bought X packs and only got Y beholds with only Z useful cards". As a paying customer, there seems to be an expectation that a behold will yield something of tangible value (despite knowing that the system is based on RNG). Oddly, the clamor for expected tangible value from straight drops is not nearly as loud (though certainly that sentiment has occasionally been seen here, including in this thread).
So, could the issue be mitigated by TP keeping separate track of free vs paid-for packs? I'm asking this as a hypothetical from the players' perspective only, since I seriously doubt TP would implement the necessary coding/interface needed to present both options in the game (i.e., press this button to open your free packs and that button to open your paid packs). I'm just curious to see the level of consensus around the idea that money is the underlying source of the displeasure. (VIP0 players may have interesting perspectives on this.)
You raise some excellent points. I would think that VIP0 players might be grumpier about getting an all-immortal behold because they have fewer opportunities to have premium 10-packs to pull, rather than an expression of resources expended to obtain the packs.