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DB/TP and Data Protection

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  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    Daev wrote: »
    Shan wrote: »
    Hi all,

    Here is the update I can make at this time.

    We understand your concerns and we are continuing to work closely with our Privacy Team to provide you with an overview that will address those concerns.

    What I can tell you so far is that, regarding consent for ads/Offer Wall, we’ve always erred on the side of caution. This means that our game considers that consent is not given, and that no personal information is being shared.

    There will be more details added in the overview that we will provide next week.

    I will be x-posting this in the other thread as well.
    Again, thank you for your patience.


    Hi Shan.

    Could I please ask you to now expand or clarify this post of yours?

    The update you have posted here today states that personal information (e.g. my DBID and my advertising ID which are emphatically personal information under EU law) is being collected and shared, despite your statement that the game considers consent is not given.

    For me it really exacerbates some of my concerns. Right now, I really do not believe that TP/WRG actually understand what personal data is or what consent actually means.

    Thanks.

    (Sorry, I know it probably feels like I'm having a go at you and I'm really not trying to do that but I am extremely concerned that such seemingly inaccurate information was put out in a post flagged as an admin post at a time when the community was really looking for further information and reassurance.)



    So, basically, when the new " Agree" Pop Up happens, we have to accept whatever TP & IronSource want to take as far as our data and whatnot, and whatever they choose 5o do with it? Or we just won't be allowed to play? When many people have invested not only our trust, but also thousands of dollars into game?!?!?


    Also, why does the company need to know our battery status?!?!? Just out of curiosity.....


    I've been curious about the battery status since I read it on ironSource's website. The only thing I can figure is the ad system is designed to scale down with your battery. If a 30 second ad would be too much, then you get a 20 second ad instead, that kind of thing. I don't understand why none of the text in either ironSource's site or TP's new TOS just says so if that is the reason.

    It just seemed like a weird little tidbit to me. Didn't think it was necessarily as "nefarious" as some other things people might be concerned about.

    Just seemed like a "HUH?!?!?" kind of thing........

    "The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭

    And it DOES have nefarious connotations......


    Thanx, Smelly!!!!!

    🖖🖖🏻🖖🏼🖖🏽🖖🏿
    "The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
  • BlixBlix ✭✭
    I've been curious about the battery status since I read it on ironSource's website. The only thing I can figure is the ad system is designed to scale down with your battery. If a 30 second ad would be too much, then you get a 20 second ad instead, that kind of thing. I don't understand why none of the text in either ironSource's site or TP's new TOS just says so if that is the reason.

    The Battery Status API has been seriously abused by bad actors over the years - it is most often used to help companies like ironSource circumvent your privacy settings by 'fingerprinting' your device, allowing them to track your activity around the web, and contribute to whatever data profile they're building on you as a user.

    Apple has removed the API from Webkit/Safari (though it was never actually activated for browsers in the wild). In 2017, Firefox stripped the API from their browser; security researcher Lukasz Olejnik called it 'an unprecedented move in the history of the web; for the first time, an entire API has been purged citing privacy concerns.'

    https://blog.lukaszolejnik.com/battery-status-readout-as-a-privacy-risk/

    https://blog.lukaszolejnik.com/battery-status-not-included-assessing-privacy-in-w3c-web-standards/

    https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/how-battery-status-readouts-can-threaten-user-privacy/

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/aug/03/privacy-smartphones-battery-life
  • And to add to the concerns, I immediately caught Timelines doing something not outlined in the presser.
  • Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
    BTW, I dunno if any of you saw it or it got buried in another thread, but within a matter of days of uninstalling Timelines from my phone, I had an ad while playing Wordscapes offering me a free 1/5 McCoy delivered to my inbox to "come back" to Timelines. Mind you, I have continued to play actively via Microsoft throughout this entire ordeal, so "come back" clearly means "reinstall the app". I instead uninstalled Wordscapes and double checked to see if I had any other PeopleFun apps.

    This feels stalker-y enough as it is, but I can only imagine how unnerving it would be if I hadn't played for a longer time. An ad in one game out of the blue trying to get me to "come back" to another game I bailed on months ago would probably terrify me.
    zd7tz9z05moc.jpg
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    Okay. What exactly can they track with my battery? Just where I go? Or can they also see which videos I actually watch on other sites?!?!?


    🐹

    "The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
  • Okay. What exactly can they track with my battery? Just where I go? Or can they also see which videos I actually watch on other sites?!?!?
    As the article said, tracking battery life by percentage combined with tracking battery life by minutes gives 14 million different combinations. If there are less than 14 million players, they effectively have a tracking ID for your device by knowing which combination belongs to which device.
  • KaiRoKaiRo ✭✭✭
    They already collect a unique "advertising ID", so they don't need your battery for uniquely fingerprinting you.
    "Don't try to be a great man... just be a man. Let history make its own judgments."
    -- Dr. Zefram Cochrane, around 2073
  • Odo MarmarosaOdo Marmarosa ✭✭✭✭✭
    Okay. What exactly can they track with my battery? Just where I go? Or can they also see which videos I actually watch on other sites?!?!?


    🐹

    They say they dont track individual users, but they didnt say anything about not tracking batteries.
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    KaiRo wrote: »
    They already collect a unique "advertising ID", so they don't need your battery for uniquely fingerprinting you.

    That ID is within this game, only. Battery profiling can tell them where else you go......
    Okay. What exactly can they track with my battery? Just where I go? Or can they also see which videos I actually watch on other sites?!?!?


    🐹

    They say they dont track individual users, but they didnt say anything about not tracking batteries.

    They specifically mentioned tracking batteries, IIRC.....
    "The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
  • Odo MarmarosaOdo Marmarosa ✭✭✭✭✭
    KaiRo wrote: »
    They already collect a unique "advertising ID", so they don't need your battery for uniquely fingerprinting you.

    That ID is within this game, only. Battery profiling can tell them where else you go......
    Okay. What exactly can they track with my battery? Just where I go? Or can they also see which videos I actually watch on other sites?!?!?


    🐹

    They say they dont track individual users, but they didnt say anything about not tracking batteries.

    They specifically mentioned tracking batteries, IIRC.....

    That was a pre-coffee statement and is a little muddled. They did mentio that the data about battery life was being sent forward. They did not deny that they use this information to identify devices (and can claim not to track individial users....technically)
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    KaiRo wrote: »
    They already collect a unique "advertising ID", so they don't need your battery for uniquely fingerprinting you.

    That ID is within this game, only. Battery profiling can tell them where else you go......
    Okay. What exactly can they track with my battery? Just where I go? Or can they also see which videos I actually watch on other sites?!?!?


    🐹

    They say they dont track individual users, but they didnt say anything about not tracking batteries.

    They specifically mentioned tracking batteries, IIRC.....

    That was a pre-coffee statement and is a little muddled. They did mentio that the data about battery life was being sent forward. They did not deny that they use this information to identify devices (and can claim not to track individial users....technically)

    I just wanna know when it is safe to go back to x 🐹......

    "The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
  • Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
    KaiRo wrote: »
    They already collect a unique "advertising ID", so they don't need your battery for uniquely fingerprinting you.

    That ID is within this game, only. Battery profiling can tell them where else you go......
    Okay. What exactly can they track with my battery? Just where I go? Or can they also see which videos I actually watch on other sites?!?!?


    🐹

    They say they dont track individual users, but they didnt say anything about not tracking batteries.

    They specifically mentioned tracking batteries, IIRC.....

    That was a pre-coffee statement and is a little muddled. They did mentio that the data about battery life was being sent forward. They did not deny that they use this information to identify devices (and can claim not to track individial users....technically)

    I just wanna know when it is safe to go back to x 🐹......

    mybc1aw2opxq.jpg
  • edited July 2020
    Daev wrote: »
    Shan wrote: »
    Hi all,

    Here is the update I can make at this time.

    We understand your concerns and we are continuing to work closely with our Privacy Team to provide you with an overview that will address those concerns.

    What I can tell you so far is that, regarding consent for ads/Offer Wall, we’ve always erred on the side of caution. This means that our game considers that consent is not given, and that no personal information is being shared.

    There will be more details added in the overview that we will provide next week.

    I will be x-posting this in the other thread as well.
    Again, thank you for your patience.


    Hi Shan.

    Could I please ask you to now expand or clarify this post of yours?

    The update you have posted here today states that personal information (e.g. my DBID and my advertising ID which are emphatically personal information under EU law) is being collected and shared, despite your statement that the game considers consent is not given.

    For me it really exacerbates some of my concerns. Right now, I really do not believe that TP/WRG actually understand what personal data is or what consent actually means.

    Thanks.

    (Sorry, I know it probably feels like I'm having a go at you and I'm really not trying to do that but I am extremely concerned that such seemingly inaccurate information was put out in a post flagged as an admin post at a time when the community was really looking for further information and reassurance.)



    So, basically, when the new " Agree" Pop Up happens, we have to accept whatever TP & IronSource want to take as far as our data and whatnot, and whatever they choose 5o do with it? Or we just won't be allowed to play? When many people have invested not only our trust, but also thousands of dollars into game?!?!?


    Also, why does the company need to know our battery status?!?!? Just out of curiosity.....


    It has been proven that collecting info such as battery status, screen info, device type & operating system, wifi and or cellular info, ... is extremely useful and can be easily used to identify a user (fingerprint them).
    [DCC] bebe
    Privileged to be Admiral of the Great Fleet
    Dilithium Causes Cancer, maxed Starbase level 134
    Featuring photonic flee free holodecks and
    All you can drink Neelix's Even Better Than Coffee Substitute!
  • https://forum.disruptorbeam.com/stt/discussion/16563/change-of-ownership-offer-wall-and-privacy-concerns#latest

    As far as "non-personalized ads" is concerned, i have fleetmates that would disagree.
    [DCC] bebe
    Privileged to be Admiral of the Great Fleet
    Dilithium Causes Cancer, maxed Starbase level 134
    Featuring photonic flee free holodecks and
    All you can drink Neelix's Even Better Than Coffee Substitute!
  • edited July 2020
    BTW, the "Learn More" button does not work on my machine so i don't know if it offers any type of opt out options for cookies and other technologies.

    xhtc2ch945ed.jpg



    Edit: I also found that both links in Shan's first post lead to the same page.
    [DCC] bebe
    Privileged to be Admiral of the Great Fleet
    Dilithium Causes Cancer, maxed Starbase level 134
    Featuring photonic flee free holodecks and
    All you can drink Neelix's Even Better Than Coffee Substitute!
  • ShadowPresenceShadowPresence ✭✭✭✭
    [DCC] bebe wrote: »
    BTW, the "Learn More" button does not work on my machine so i don't know if it offers any type of opt out options for cookies and other technologies.

    xhtc2ch945ed.jpg



    Edit: I also found that both links in Shan's first post lead to the same page.

    Yeah, the "Learn More" for the cookie disclaimer doesn't work for me either. It was the first thing I checked when I went to their site.
  • (HGH)Apollo(HGH)Apollo ✭✭✭✭✭
    [DCC] bebe wrote: »
    BTW, the "Learn More" button does not work on my machine so i don't know if it offers any type of opt out options for cookies and other technologies.

    xhtc2ch945ed.jpg



    Edit: I also found that both links in Shan's first post lead to the same page.

    Yeah, the "Learn More" for the cookie disclaimer doesn't work for me either. It was the first thing I checked when I went to their site.

    I will not accept any cookie unless I know if it is chocolate chip or not.
    Let’s fly!
  • ChaosChildChaosChild ✭✭✭✭✭
    [DCC] bebe wrote: »
    BTW, the "Learn More" button does not work on my machine so i don't know if it offers any type of opt out options for cookies and other technologies.

    xhtc2ch945ed.jpg



    Edit: I also found that both links in Shan's first post lead to the same page.

    Yeah, the "Learn More" for the cookie disclaimer doesn't work for me either. It was the first thing I checked when I went to their site.

    I will not accept any cookie unless I know if it is chocolate chip or not.
    They all claim to be chocolate chip. It's not until you accept them that you find out they're actually oatmeal and raisin.
  • KaiRo wrote: »
    They already collect a unique "advertising ID", so they don't need your battery for uniquely fingerprinting you.

    You can switch off and change the advertising ID, hence why they fingerprint.
  • KaiRoKaiRo ✭✭✭
    KaiRo wrote: »
    They already collect a unique "advertising ID", so they don't need your battery for uniquely fingerprinting you.

    That ID is within this game, only. Battery profiling can tell them where else you go......

    If you read the privacy policy, you'll see that the advertising ID is actually across all apps on the same device. It actually was invented specifically for cross-app tracking.

    And reading both the ToS and Privacy Policy, I find that their contents are fairly normal for proprietary end user software, esp. for games. Actually, much worse exists out there.

    Yes, Trekkies may expect companies to be morally better - but then, if you look at what archive camera feeds we sometimes see in Star Trek shows, I wouldn't wonder if Federation ships had archival video cameras on the toilets and the whole senior staff had access to those. Maybe that's why we never see toilets on those ships. ;)
    "Don't try to be a great man... just be a man. Let history make its own judgments."
    -- Dr. Zefram Cochrane, around 2073
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