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Offer Wall and Privacy Concerns Statement
Shan
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Please see our statement in Starfleet Communications
https://forum.disruptorbeam.com/stt/discussion/16444/offer-wall-and-privacy-concerns
And use this thread for comments, it will be easier for me, thank you!
https://forum.disruptorbeam.com/stt/discussion/16444/offer-wall-and-privacy-concerns
And use this thread for comments, it will be easier for me, thank you!
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I don't mean to be rude but I personally have seen ZERO of this commitment so I really don't see how I can take any reassurance from this.
It's been well over a week and the post from the privacy team barely addresses any of the concerns raised throughout the threads.
Are the privacy team prepare to answer any specific questions we have (through you if needs be)?
Thanks
However, I don't see anything about IronSource - no comment about their reputation, no comment addressing the concerns of background data usage, nothing. Most of the outrage I've seen has been focused on the partner more than TP directly - while I'm sure a lot of people would still be against the idea of the wall in general, if it was provided by a partner that came across as more reputable, I think there'd be less concern.
Does "denying consent regarding the sharing of personal data by default" rule that out too?
This
I love that you guys took the default position of not sharing that data, but man you could've been clearer about that from the start and it would've saved you a lot of headaches and probably more than a few customers.
@Shan - thanks for this statement and your efforts in this regard.
Personally, I feel that this clarification is both too little and too late.
Can I ask if there are plans to allow roll back of the vexatious update and play on the previous version of the app to continue for those wishing it, thereby allowing the community to chose themselves whether their data privacy or dilithium piles are more important to them? If not, can it be formally proposed?
Thank you in advance.
I am NOT an expert but would just linking to another server (ironsource) set that off? And if not just any link then to a server with a questionable reputation?
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That is not allowed in Europe because it violates the GDPR. I'm looking forward to the renewed TOS.
Unfortunately I'm not an expert either and I just don't know. I'm hoping they can answer it.
The statement covers some of our immediate concerns regarding basic privacy, but doesn't even touch on TP's legal liabilities that were uncovered as part of this mess. Considering how long it took for TP to issue this statement it really is the absolute bare minimum, and there are still questions that need urgent answers.
If you (at the time) felt that taking the most conservative approach, surely you had to know that the community would have concerns.. and maybe then and there you could have come to us and ask for opinions. It is/was ‘player choice’ month. Or better yet, just ditch the idea to begin with.
Now that the horse has bolted .. I would like to see a whole opt in/out option as stated by others above.
I appreciate the statement, even if it is too little and far too late, but I feel more questions are raised then answers.
I get that lawyers were involved. I understand that kind of thing takes time. But, if the answer was "We have been protecting your data from the start", that message would have reassured a lot of people on day one. Just pointing that out.
And, as always, I know you are just the messenger, Shan. I'm not blaming you in any way. But, they should have let you know at the start, so you could tell us. The message of how it was handled is reassuring. As always, we appreciate you standing on the field of conflict, taking fire from both sides......
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My understanding is that the link shortener TP uses for the Help Desk got red flagged....
on a side note, people's definition of "personal data" is more vague than anything WRG/TP has put out there, and the goalposts continue to move to suit people's own suspicions and premature conclusions.
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The in game email was a good start and I believe the devs when they say more communication will come as they unravel the mess.
I’m not that concerned to be honest, I have a single LinkedIn account for job searching, I don’t use any other social media, I prefer real human interaction. I’m almost 60 years old and having had computers since the beginning I’m sure there is plenty of my data out there ripe for picking. I’m careful I think, but I’m not going to drive myself nuts worrying about it I have many more things that take priority in this stage of life.
I appreciate the information given, I believe lessons will be learned and better care will be taken in the future.
Others may not share the same opinions and that’s cool diversity and differing views are what makes us stronger. LLAP
I also think it's worth being clearer here. These policies do not yet apply to us as players of the game right? They may - subject to the notification requirements of the license and privacy policy which currently bind us, and you as the studio, but they will require our formal agreement (even if that is as simple as continued use of the game once notified).
Thank you for your comments so far, I appreciate it.
From the comments in the other threads, and in this one as well, there is amalgam made when using the term "data", especially in regard of the Offer Wall.
So I will try to deconstruct it a bit, to make sure we are all on the same page.
We have 3 things at play here:
- the game in itself
- ironSource, that is being used for the ads seen in game, and the Offer Wall
- the various offers presented on the Offer Wall itself
For these 3 things, there is data involved but not in the same fashion
- for the game itself, we've covered it in our statement
- for ironSource, it is operation data to be able to present you with ads in game, and as far as I know (I will ask confirmation on this) the Offer Wall did not change that at all, it is still the same operational data
- the 3rd party offers presented in the Offer Wall.
Choosing to participate in any 3rd party offer is voluntary only, and everyone should do their own due diligence before deciding to give it a go or not, and potentially sharing information.
Before you all jump on my throat, while there is personal responsibility at play, this is not me saying that your concerns regarding these 3rd party offers should not be heard.
Did I deconstruct it correctly?
Regarding your concerns about the offers presented in the Offer Wall, I will continue to have conversations about this. It would help me if I could get a better idea of how often you encounter offers that seem less legit than they should be.
As for the report of a potential exploit when claiming reward in an in-game mail. It is under investigation.
I hope this helps.
I'm not an expert either, but I have enough experience to sound like I know what I'm talking about.
So, when they set this up, IronSource probably provides them with a library - a file you can reference in your program to do stuff other people coded. That library probably contains the offer wall screen and whatever other stuff they need; TP/WRG probably didn't create a screen that loads IronSource's stuff (though that's definitely a possibility too).
This library is probably associated with other applications people have flagged as malware, and the antivirus apps flagged it as such. Or the library *itself* could be directly flagged. Either way, with the update, that library is now packages with STT, so it triggers antivirus apps.
The problem is here. ironSource is cancer. Their motto is "we dig personal information without authorization to exploit them, and we're proud of it". You are entitled to your personal opinion but please remain courteous. Thank you. ~Shan
EDIT: When has a "tssk" (not censored, really wrote "tssk") have become an infringement to the TOS? It's neutral.
“The same” meaning, data you collect and pass on to IronSource? Or are they collecting data on their own, whether or not we are using the offer wall or not? This still is not clear, and it is also secondary, to what means this data is collected (“operation data”). More relevant is, what it is and who has it. And, by extension, on what grounds a fourth party is now in possession of whatever kind of data.
You mean more vague than yourself lumping “people” together? Maybe that is because the GDPR intentionally keeps a very broad definition of the term. I’m sure that most commenters don’t even conceive of what actually would constitute personal data.
So if I'm understanding you correctly, it's not that STT now has malware risk, it's that going to the wall and engaging in offers is the actual risk and steering clear of the wall (which I was doing anyway) will mean that my phone is still safe while playing?
The point, though, is that we don’t want to interact with these offers. No one is going to expose themselves and their devices to them to test how often they get bit. If TP needs that sort of testing done, it should have happened before they got themselves in a relationship with a company like Ironsource. Asking us to do it for them is...strange.
The other important point is that we don’t want people who aren’t as aware of these things to be tricked into those interactions. A lot of the complaints you’re seeing here are not just about whether what’s been done is “technically not illegal”, but whether it’s predatory behaviour that makes us not want to interact with the game at all. That applies to both interaction with 3rd party whatevers, and the objectionable actions that may be taking place without our deliberate interaction.
Personally, that laughable message we got today confirmed that this isn’t a game or a company that I want to interact with. Not because it may or may not be technically not completely illegal in certain jurisdictions, but because something shifty was done, and then the reaction was bad when people called them on it. That message could have done good things. It did not.
On another note, I hope you’ve gotten a raise recently. I’m sure you’re doing your best, and your employer is letting you take heat for some really bad management. You said something defensive about people jumping down your throat, while everything I’ve read recently has acknowledged that you’re stuck here handling something that is not your fault, and that your efforts are appreciated. I shudder to think what’s coming through your DMs to make you say something like that in a public statement, so I’d like to reiterate that we’re grateful for the work you do, and we recognize that without someone in your position, we’d have even less recourse.
Without knowing exactly what their library is doing behind the scenes, I wouldn't be able to say either way. From the official statement and Shan's clarification, I'd say yes you'll be fine - that's how I'm taking it at least. Don't touch the wall - or at the very least choose any offers wisely if you do - and you should be fine.
I was mainly trying to explain one way the app is flagged by antivirus software now - nothing necessarily to do with STT itself, just the offer wall, and how that could cause it without the game being a problem on its own. *Generally speaking* the library can't do anything on its own unless something calls stuff in it, but they might even have it set up that the game has to trigger it when it loads up, and then all bets are off.
Again though, FWIW, I'm personally okay with where things are now - the wall is still tacky, but they've given a response that I'm satisfied with.
Kind of says it all.
That pic actually comes from this article:
https://gameanalytics.com/blog/gdpr-game-compliant.html
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