Thank you very much for the clarification, Shan! I appreciate the quick response, your tireless work, and the extreme difficulty of your position!
+87!!!!!
Scott, I do not know what you specifically refer to when you say data mining.
I do not have anything to add that has not already been covered by our latest statement on the subject, and by the privacy policy.
This has indeed been difficult, and not in small part due to all the misconceptions I've seen in various threads. But such is human nature, especially on the internet
Privacy is important, it matters to you, and it matters to our team as well.
This has indeed been difficult, and not in small part due to all the misconceptions I've seen in various threads. But such is human nature, especially on the internet
Hi Shan.
I have to say that I find your suggestion that this has been difficult even in part due to misconceptions is frankly disingenuous.
You, yourself have posted (labelled as an admin post, a representative of the company ) what appears to be incorrect information and in the almost a full week since I very politely asked for a clarification - have not responded.
If you, posting as the representative of the company, can post seemingly inaccurate information.... is it any wonder there are 'misconceptions'?
Scott, I do not know what you specifically refer to when you say data mining.
I do not have anything to add that has not already been covered by our latest statement on the subject, and by the privacy policy.
This has indeed been difficult, and not in small part due to all the misconceptions I've seen in various threads. But such is human nature, especially on the internet
Privacy is important, it matters to you, and it matters to our team as well.
For me, there are a couple of bits not covered:
1) IronSource directly contradict TP, it'd be nice to have that cleared up, even it was to just say IronsSource are talking out of their rear ends in this instance.
2) The privacy policy uses language that is indicative of device fingerprinting, which circumvents individual choice of wether to be tracked via their Advertising Id or not.
It's difficult to accept that privacy is important when 2) is unethical at best.
And if there are misconceptions, I'd say a lot of that is down to a lack of clarity from WRG/TP and a corresponding lack of trust from users flowing from that, and were this purely down to cyber Chicken Littles, the responses wouldn't have taken so long, there'd have been pre-prepared canned statements ready to go.
Shan is a liason between WRG and the community. she passes along whatever information she gets. How the hell do you know what kind of crap she has to deal with when managing this community? They ought to pay her something in the 6 figure range for having to deal with this nonsense.
This has indeed been difficult, and not in small part due to all the misconceptions I've seen in various threads. But such is human nature, especially on the internet
Hi Shan.
I have to say that I find your suggestion that this has been difficult even in part due to misconceptions is frankly disingenuous.
You, yourself have posted (labelled as an admin post, a representative of the company ) what appears to be incorrect information and in the almost a full week since I very politely asked for a clarification - have not responded.
If you, posting as the representative of the company, can post seemingly inaccurate information.... is it any wonder there are 'misconceptions'?
😡😡😡
Being a representative of the company does not make me a Privacy Officer/GDPR specialist.
I will always try to provide accurate information, I am however not infallible.
Not everyone on these forums think of the same thing when the words "personal information" are being used. For the post/context you are referring to, I was trying to address a broader context.
There are of course more layers to this, especially where GDPR is concerned. Such as what constitutes personal information and what constitutes personal identifiable information. And for both it is my understanding that there is also the notion of business requirements that in turn can affect whether or not consent is required and when.
You've submitted a formal request and it will be addressed.
If you have additional questions please address them to privacy@tiltingpoint.com
Thank you.
I have tried to be calm and collected about this issue, even though it has, at times, made me furious over the past several weeks. But your latest comments, Shan, are literally adding insult to injury.
So we have made your job harder because there were misconceptions? It is your (the company’s) job to clear those up. If there are legitimate concerns being voiced and you (the company) take weeks to even acknowledge them, speculation among the user base shouldn’t come as a surprise to you. And if I understand this correctly, it is your (the liaison’s) job to mediate between your employer and us. Maybe your frustration is better directed at your colleagues who have left you hanging for so long.
Personally, I still have plenty of privacy issues with this game and the companies involved. But from the looks of it, this is no longer a discussion being tolerated here.
I have tried to be calm and collected about this issue, even though it has, at times, made me furious over the past several weeks. But your latest comments, Shan, are literally adding insult to injury.
So we have made your job harder because there were misconceptions? It is your (the company’s) job to clear those up. If there are legitimate concerns being voiced and you (the company) take weeks to even acknowledge them, speculation among the user base shouldn’t come as a surprise to you. And if I understand this correctly, it is your (the liaison’s) job to mediate between your employer and us. Maybe your frustration is better directed at your colleagues who have left you hanging for so long.
Personally, I still have plenty of privacy issues with this game and the companies involved. But from the looks of it, this is no longer a discussion being tolerated here.
If you have that many concerns, why hang around? I have doubts that many of the people who have ongoing privacy concerns will ever be satisfied, regardless of what TP communicates to us.
My first and hopefully last comment on this subject area. I am sufficiently satisfied that my data (in whatever sense of the word this means) is being collected and analyzed just as it always has been. No more, no less. If new or different things are being done downstream with my data (e.g., conveyed to new 3rd party vendors)... shrug, since that's not under my control anyway (irrespective of whether opt-outs exist or not). I am therefore electing to interact with the game in the same way that I have in the past. I am exclusively on iOS, but managed to never install the version of the game that contained the active offer wall. I understand (thanks to various threads) that the SDK is still operating in the background, but as long as I don't fill out a survey or whatever else, then to my mind, nothing has changed with respect to the "data mining" that may be going on. If I am being naive, so be it.
I recently bought a house. In doing so, I submitted my social security number, bank account info, pay stubs, retirement funds documentation, and tax records to multiple vendors such that I fully assume I will have my identity stolen at some point in the next 12 months when one of them gets hacked. It's frustrating, but I couldn't have gotten the loan without giving out that info, so what else could be done?
This feels the same way to me - either play STT and accept the risks that come along with it (whatever those risks might be), or stop playing. I'm choosing to play. Hope to see the rest of you around the galaxy, but if not, I understand. LLAP.
The ironSource SDK is still there, in the same capacity as it was before the Offer Wall.
It is used for the ads you see in game.
So that's a definitive good bye from me. You are partner with a company who publicly say they don't give a **tsk tsk** about privacy. And you still decided to chose them. Because you said you managed to limit the datas they have access to. "we don't care about what the company does to other users than ours.". Go to hell, TP (not you, Shan, you are just the messenger).
The database and files of the doro website have been wiped (I still had them on my computer), and I've deleted the game from both my computer and my smartphone..
I recently bought a house. In doing so, I submitted my social security number, bank account info, pay stubs, retirement funds documentation, and tax records to multiple vendors such that I fully assume I will have my identity stolen at some point in the next 12 months when one of them gets hacked. It's frustrating, but I couldn't have gotten the loan without giving out that info, so what else could be done?
This feels the same way to me - either play STT and accept the risks that come along with it (whatever those risks might be), or stop playing. I'm choosing to play. Hope to see the rest of you around the galaxy, but if not, I understand. LLAP.
Bit of a difference between buying a house and playing a game, the latter is meant to be fun and lighthearted. I've bought a few houses, can't say any aspect of it was fun beyond finding the right place.
I appreciate your point of view, but for me it's like acceptance of being a victim, and that kind of saddens me. If I have a nice car, I shouldn't just become inured to car theft, and if I play a game I shouldn't have to accept gutter ethics to do so.
I recently bought a house. In doing so, I submitted my social security number, bank account info, pay stubs, retirement funds documentation, and tax records to multiple vendors such that I fully assume I will have my identity stolen at some point in the next 12 months when one of them gets hacked. It's frustrating, but I couldn't have gotten the loan without giving out that info, so what else could be done?
This feels the same way to me - either play STT and accept the risks that come along with it (whatever those risks might be), or stop playing. I'm choosing to play. Hope to see the rest of you around the galaxy, but if not, I understand. LLAP.
Bit of a difference between buying a house and playing a game, the latter is meant to be fun and lighthearted. I've bought a few houses, can't say any aspect of it was fun beyond finding the right place.
I appreciate your point of view, but for me it's like acceptance of being a victim, and that kind of saddens me. If I have a nice car, I shouldn't just become inured to car theft, and if I play a game I shouldn't have to accept gutter ethics to do so.
Maybe it is time to delete the app.
You might as well add almost every app to your list then. This is such common practice now. I think this is the first app I've seen do as much as they have to address privacy concerns.
Its reached the point I don't think there is anything that will make some of the people in the community satisfied. So for those that are leaving, good bye. But for the rest of us that our staying, at least the forums should be a much calmer place now.
I recently bought a house. In doing so, I submitted my social security number, bank account info, pay stubs, retirement funds documentation, and tax records to multiple vendors such that I fully assume I will have my identity stolen at some point in the next 12 months when one of them gets hacked. It's frustrating, but I couldn't have gotten the loan without giving out that info, so what else could be done?
This feels the same way to me - either play STT and accept the risks that come along with it (whatever those risks might be), or stop playing. I'm choosing to play. Hope to see the rest of you around the galaxy, but if not, I understand. LLAP.
Bit of a difference between buying a house and playing a game, the latter is meant to be fun and lighthearted. I've bought a few houses, can't say any aspect of it was fun beyond finding the right place.
I appreciate your point of view, but for me it's like acceptance of being a victim, and that kind of saddens me. If I have a nice car, I shouldn't just become inured to car theft, and if I play a game I shouldn't have to accept gutter ethics to do so.
Maybe it is time to delete the app.
You might as well add almost every app to your list then. This is such common practice now. I think this is the first app I've seen do as much as they have to address privacy concerns.
Its reached the point I don't think there is anything that will make some of the people in the community satisfied. So for those that are leaving, good bye. But for the rest of us that our staying, at least the forums should be a much calmer place now.
Whatever helps you sleep at night with identity theft. Some of us will not go quietly.
If a third party had access to your spreadsheet, could see who used it, harvest their “PII” (data) & then sell it, would you care? I mean your resource.
"In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
1. I have been harvested since ... um, when did ironSource start managing the ads?
2. I came here to play. I knew ads were integrated, but I thought ads were a choice.
3. Well, my device-identifiable data has been frakked for over 3 years now.
4. I never saw that grant of permission in the Terms of Service for DB, and have yet to see anything similar from WRG. Did I miss something?
5. For all who nay-say our privacy concerns, please stop. They are valid concerns.
Everyone here can do better, including me. I apologize if my strident tone in my previous posts was offensive. but the point needs to be hammered home:
This business model is unethical, in terms of fair value for exchange. Make a Ferengi profit, but please fix stuff.
WRG: Do Better
"In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
1. I have been harvested since ... um, when did ironSource start managing the ads?
2. I came here to play. I knew ads were integrated, but I thought ads were a choice.
3. Well, my device-identifiable data has been frakked for over 3 years now.
4. I never saw that grant of permission in the Terms of Service for DB, and have yet to see anything similar from WRG. Did I miss something?
5. For all who nay-say our privacy concerns, please stop. They are valid concerns.
Everyone here can do better, including me. I apologize if my strident tone in my previous posts was offensive. but the point needs to be hammered home:
This business model is unethical, in terms of fair value for exchange. Make a Ferengi profit, but please fix stuff.
WRG: Do Better
I want to sincerely apologize to you, Peregrine. I was very grumpy the other day. And a lot of the meanness I spilled hit you. I sincerely and humbly apologize!!!!!!
🖖🏿🖖🏽🖖🏼🖖🏻🖖
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
We hope that this communication, along with our commitment to constantly strive to improve how we protect players’ personal data and how we communicate with you about privacy issues, will provide you with a much needed reassurance.
There is no longer a privacy policy available on iOS. The link in both the App Store and the Star Trek Timelines client goes to a 404 page. The license agreement in the App Store also directly links to this page:
Not displaying a privacy policy appears to breach the terms of service for the Apple Store, for Facebook integration, CalOPPA and as you are no longer informing us of how you process data, I think that's a breach of GDPR too.
A further excellent demonstration of this constant striving - and lets be clear, there have been numerous client and server updates (there was 1 yesterday) since the ownership change - so this would appear to be something that's has not been given either a) any thought or b) any priority.
My GDPR / Data privacy support ticket has been answered in full now. On the whole, I am satisfied that data is being used as decribed and safegaurded as much sa is possible.
Only open question as of now is:
DB says IronSource is implemented as auto deny (which I have to take at face value) and IronSource says they do what they want.....
so that raises the question:
At what point do i pass from DB countrol to IronSource control
a) Only if interact with surveys / offers on wall (what i expect based on reponses, understandable and accepted)
b) for adds,, is whne an add plays or when If i click add during play and am taken to App Store.....
On the whole, I feel a lot more secure that things are in order....just trying to get to the bottom of a few little points so i know "how to best play" If i intend on keeping my privacy.
Only open question as of now is:
DB says IronSource is implemented as auto deny (which I have to take at face value) and IronSource says they do what they want.....
They said that in my GDPR ticket but then immediately contradicted themselves in the very next sentence by saying what they automatically send to Ironsource so I'd suggest perhaps rereading that very closely. I've asked for clarification.
But the answer to your questions is
c) when the app loads. As stated on the forums and in the GDPR response, a bunch of info (including personal information under GDPR) is sent by default when the app loads. No opt-out, no click on an ad or on the offerwall required. In fact according to the forum postings it occurs on clients that do no have the offerwall (iOS)
Y'all...it's been over a month now. Thank you for looking out for all of us, but if you're genuinely this concerned you need to delete the app from your phone. With everything else going on in the world today, I assure you that you can focus all of that energy into so many things that would have a more positive impact on the world as a whole than getting a mobile game app to shut down.
Also, if you are concerned about this, make sure to delete any app by Facebook or Google from your phone, as they have pretty similar privacy practices as companies like IronSource.
"Don't try to be a great man... just be a man. Let history make its own judgments." -- Dr. Zefram Cochrane, around 2073
Y'all...it's been over a month now. Thank you for looking out for all of us, but if you're genuinely this concerned you need to delete the app from your phone. With everything else going on in the world today, I assure you that you can focus all of that energy into so many things that would have a more positive impact on the world as a whole than getting a mobile game app to shut down.
Comments
It is used for the ads you see in game.
What about data mining? Has it always done that?
Thanx for the update!
+87!!!!!
Scott, I do not know what you specifically refer to when you say data mining.
I do not have anything to add that has not already been covered by our latest statement on the subject, and by the privacy policy.
This has indeed been difficult, and not in small part due to all the misconceptions I've seen in various threads. But such is human nature, especially on the internet
Privacy is important, it matters to you, and it matters to our team as well.
Hi Shan.
I have to say that I find your suggestion that this has been difficult even in part due to misconceptions is frankly disingenuous.
You, yourself have posted (labelled as an admin post, a representative of the company ) what appears to be incorrect information and in the almost a full week since I very politely asked for a clarification - have not responded.
If you, posting as the representative of the company, can post seemingly inaccurate information.... is it any wonder there are 'misconceptions'?
😡😡😡
For me, there are a couple of bits not covered:
1) IronSource directly contradict TP, it'd be nice to have that cleared up, even it was to just say IronsSource are talking out of their rear ends in this instance.
2) The privacy policy uses language that is indicative of device fingerprinting, which circumvents individual choice of wether to be tracked via their Advertising Id or not.
It's difficult to accept that privacy is important when 2) is unethical at best.
And if there are misconceptions, I'd say a lot of that is down to a lack of clarity from WRG/TP and a corresponding lack of trust from users flowing from that, and were this purely down to cyber Chicken Littles, the responses wouldn't have taken so long, there'd have been pre-prepared canned statements ready to go.
Shan is a liason between WRG and the community. she passes along whatever information she gets. How the hell do you know what kind of crap she has to deal with when managing this community? They ought to pay her something in the 6 figure range for having to deal with this nonsense.
Second Star to the Right - Join Today!
Being a representative of the company does not make me a Privacy Officer/GDPR specialist.
I will always try to provide accurate information, I am however not infallible.
Not everyone on these forums think of the same thing when the words "personal information" are being used. For the post/context you are referring to, I was trying to address a broader context.
There are of course more layers to this, especially where GDPR is concerned. Such as what constitutes personal information and what constitutes personal identifiable information. And for both it is my understanding that there is also the notion of business requirements that in turn can affect whether or not consent is required and when.
You've submitted a formal request and it will be addressed.
If you have additional questions please address them to privacy@tiltingpoint.com
Thank you.
So we have made your job harder because there were misconceptions? It is your (the company’s) job to clear those up. If there are legitimate concerns being voiced and you (the company) take weeks to even acknowledge them, speculation among the user base shouldn’t come as a surprise to you. And if I understand this correctly, it is your (the liaison’s) job to mediate between your employer and us. Maybe your frustration is better directed at your colleagues who have left you hanging for so long.
Personally, I still have plenty of privacy issues with this game and the companies involved. But from the looks of it, this is no longer a discussion being tolerated here.
If you have that many concerns, why hang around? I have doubts that many of the people who have ongoing privacy concerns will ever be satisfied, regardless of what TP communicates to us.
I recently bought a house. In doing so, I submitted my social security number, bank account info, pay stubs, retirement funds documentation, and tax records to multiple vendors such that I fully assume I will have my identity stolen at some point in the next 12 months when one of them gets hacked. It's frustrating, but I couldn't have gotten the loan without giving out that info, so what else could be done?
This feels the same way to me - either play STT and accept the risks that come along with it (whatever those risks might be), or stop playing. I'm choosing to play. Hope to see the rest of you around the galaxy, but if not, I understand. LLAP.
So that's a definitive good bye from me. You are partner with a company who publicly say they don't give a **tsk tsk** about privacy. And you still decided to chose them. Because you said you managed to limit the datas they have access to. "we don't care about what the company does to other users than ours.". Go to hell, TP (not you, Shan, you are just the messenger).
The database and files of the doro website have been wiped (I still had them on my computer), and I've deleted the game from both my computer and my smartphone..
Bit of a difference between buying a house and playing a game, the latter is meant to be fun and lighthearted. I've bought a few houses, can't say any aspect of it was fun beyond finding the right place.
I appreciate your point of view, but for me it's like acceptance of being a victim, and that kind of saddens me. If I have a nice car, I shouldn't just become inured to car theft, and if I play a game I shouldn't have to accept gutter ethics to do so.
Maybe it is time to delete the app.
You might as well add almost every app to your list then. This is such common practice now. I think this is the first app I've seen do as much as they have to address privacy concerns.
Its reached the point I don't think there is anything that will make some of the people in the community satisfied. So for those that are leaving, good bye. But for the rest of us that our staying, at least the forums should be a much calmer place now.
Whatever helps you sleep at night with identity theft. Some of us will not go quietly.
If a third party had access to your spreadsheet, could see who used it, harvest their “PII” (data) & then sell it, would you care? I mean your resource.
1. I have been harvested since ... um, when did ironSource start managing the ads?
2. I came here to play. I knew ads were integrated, but I thought ads were a choice.
3. Well, my device-identifiable data has been frakked for over 3 years now.
4. I never saw that grant of permission in the Terms of Service for DB, and have yet to see anything similar from WRG. Did I miss something?
5. For all who nay-say our privacy concerns, please stop. They are valid concerns.
Everyone here can do better, including me. I apologize if my strident tone in my previous posts was offensive. but the point needs to be hammered home:
This business model is unethical, in terms of fair value for exchange. Make a Ferengi profit, but please fix stuff.
WRG: Do Better
I want to sincerely apologize to you, Peregrine. I was very grumpy the other day. And a lot of the meanness I spilled hit you. I sincerely and humbly apologize!!!!!!
🖖🏿🖖🏽🖖🏼🖖🏻🖖
There is no longer a privacy policy available on iOS. The link in both the App Store and the Star Trek Timelines client goes to a 404 page. The license agreement in the App Store also directly links to this page:
https://www.disruptorbeam.com/privacy
Not displaying a privacy policy appears to breach the terms of service for the Apple Store, for Facebook integration, CalOPPA and as you are no longer informing us of how you process data, I think that's a breach of GDPR too.
A further excellent demonstration of this constant striving - and lets be clear, there have been numerous client and server updates (there was 1 yesterday) since the ownership change - so this would appear to be something that's has not been given either a) any thought or b) any priority.
Only open question as of now is:
DB says IronSource is implemented as auto deny (which I have to take at face value) and IronSource says they do what they want.....
so that raises the question:
At what point do i pass from DB countrol to IronSource control
a) Only if interact with surveys / offers on wall (what i expect based on reponses, understandable and accepted)
b) for adds,, is whne an add plays or when If i click add during play and am taken to App Store.....
On the whole, I feel a lot more secure that things are in order....just trying to get to the bottom of a few little points so i know "how to best play" If i intend on keeping my privacy.
They said that in my GDPR ticket but then immediately contradicted themselves in the very next sentence by saying what they automatically send to Ironsource so I'd suggest perhaps rereading that very closely. I've asked for clarification.
But the answer to your questions is
c) when the app loads. As stated on the forums and in the GDPR response, a bunch of info (including personal information under GDPR) is sent by default when the app loads. No opt-out, no click on an ad or on the offerwall required. In fact according to the forum postings it occurs on clients that do no have the offerwall (iOS)
-- Dr. Zefram Cochrane, around 2073
THIS! +1 Thx for posting.