> ironSource, that is being used for the ads seen in game, and the Offer Wall
The problem is here. ironSource is cancer. Their motto is "we dig personal information without authorization to exploit them, and we're proud of it".
The problem to me is.. while TP might/should have a strong privacy policy, what is IronSource's policy and does allowing them inside the game circumvent ANY policy TP has.
I've taken steps to help mitigate personal damage.. Facebook never had my real birth date or other personal info. But I've created a new email address to isolate STT/TP and hence Ironsource. I use a VPN and devices I may use to connect with the game go through a separate isolated network. I recommend doing the same. If you do go to the wall - don't fill out surveys honestly. Have an email address that you can throw away. It will get hacked.
some of that I had in place prior to this - some I've added because of this. And that is SAD. TP got into bed with a shady company to chase the dollar. I get making a profit - I'm self employed. But this really should have been vetted better.
I'm in the US.. I'm also concerned that leaves me out of any comprehensive privacy policy - by TP or by IronSource.
I get why our wonderful tools are shutting down in protest - I hope it helps TP decide to exit the IronSourse relationship. I do love my Datacorp BBoB etc. Thanks to the devs of those tools! Whether its ended or not.. THANKS
I will also not spend until the wall is removed (normal budget is about 100 a month). Nor will I be going to the Wall. I am considering closing the game down. This isn't Star Trek anymore - not to me.
Doro here. The only reason I've decided to "shut down" my website is because of IronSource reputation. May they drop this partnership, and I'll consider working for the community again.
As I understand it and from the podcast it was a collective (not borg) decision by all contributing authors, to remove the big book resource. Which I also understand that authors have the right do so unless they have sold the rights to a publishing company. Do not see the relevance or the need to get personal about this.
5 year book deal incoming.
you don't deserve that money, also the reason it's personal is because i see the removal of the Big book site as punishing the fandom
Seriously, why do you think you're entitled to the Big Book?
Are you paying for the resource? Did you sign some kind of agreement that guarantees this service? No of course not.
It was a free service provided by individuals who put in a countless amount of tine and effort. Think about it for a second, we're not talking a couple of hours but in fact weeks or months of time and effort simply because they loved what they were doing.
They could have kept this to themselves but they instead chose to share their project with the community. Keyword there is "chose".
They are now choosing to end it. It's their project not ours so they are absolutely entitled to this.
They don't need the community's permission to end the project just like they didn't need our permission when they decided to share it.
You don't have to like their decision but you should respect it. Rather than criticize their choice how about you thank them for their time, effort and dedication over all this time.
I am curious though, would you be so upset if they were simply retiring from the game rather than as a protest to the offer wall? Or do you believe that individuals sharing their resources with the community have an obligation to play this game and maintain their resources until the game shuts down?
If you're not happy with the loss of the Big Book, how about you stop whining about it and create your own that you can share with the community? I'm sure everyone wou.d shower you with the same gratitude and appreciation you've so kindly shown these guys.
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I don't see the removal of the Big Book as "punishing the players", that's a narrative that's been spun here on the forums. The Big Book is their (Idol, Auto, etc.) resource; they can remove or keep it up as they see fit. I didn't see anyone jumping to volunteer to take over updating and maintaining the Big Book at their own time and expense since idol and co. are leaving the game entirely.
Punishing the players would be leaving one more stagnating out-of-date resource out there like the ones I followed for cadets as a newbie that were for a cadet system that had since been replaced. Turns out I -didn't- need 1* CMO McCoy for Cadets. Or the guide that told me to pause on mission 4 on the galaxy map because the choices I made there would affect my reputation with certain factions.
Of course this was just more info that was outdated and didn't apply at the time I was playing those levels. I digress...
I'd buy into the "punishing the players" narrative more if one or more people publicly volunteered to continue the Big Book (at their own time and expense) but were turned down. I haven't seen anyone (singular or as a group) volunteer to keep the Big Book up to date, current, and running as a smooth oiled machine on their own time and their own dime.
Until you're willing to put in the work, you haven't earned the right to complain that a free resource is being removed because its maintainers have moved on from this game.
I don't see the removal of the Big Book as "punishing the players", that's a narrative that's been spun here on the forums. The Big Book is their (Idol, Auto, etc.) resource; they can remove or keep it up as they see fit. I didn't see anyone jumping to volunteer to take over updating and maintaining the Big Book at their own time and expense since idol and co. are leaving the game entirely.
Punishing the players would be leaving one more stagnating out-of-date resource out there like the ones I followed for cadets as a newbie that were for a cadet system that had since been replaced. Turns out I -didn't- need 1* CMO McCoy for Cadets. Or the guide that told me to pause on mission 4 on the galaxy map because the choices I made there would affect my reputation with certain factions.
Of course this was just more info that was outdated and didn't apply at the time I was playing those levels. I digress...
I'd buy into the "punishing the players" narrative more if one or more people publicly volunteered to continue the Big Book (at their own time and expense) but were turned down. I haven't seen anyone (singular or as a group) volunteer to keep the Big Book up to date, current, and running as a smooth oiled machine on their own time and their own dime.
Until you're willing to put in the work, you haven't earned the right to complain that a free resource is being removed because its maintainers have moved on from this game.
For the record, I agree with everything that you & Gabe said. Quick note, though: the eXo folks are working on a version:
As the Big Book has been taken down in protest of the offer wall, we're working on making a shareable version of the eXo BeGold Guide for players in its absence. It's something we developed in fleet for use with our bot, but putting it into a list format was probably long overdue. It's a WIP currently, but we have our tiers up. We're adding the bot snapshots and commentary throughout the day, as we can.
I dunno how to make a Venn diagram but if I did, I'd make one where one data set was "Players Whose Dedication Is Taken For Granted By Greedy Company" and the other was "Players Whose Dedication Is Taken For Granted By Other Players" and in the middle would be Big Book and Wiki Creators.
Is everything still OK to use if we're coming in via the Win10 app or Steam, which don't have the Offer Wall or ads?
Having credible reports, with screenshots, of a forced update to v7.5.3 on Amazon, i'm sure the rest of Android and iOS is next. That also means Windows & Steam aren't going to be far behind. I sincerity hope that i'm wrong but i seriously doubt that i am.
Yes, Amazon was forced and, hilariously, we now have issues with bouncing out, crashing, etc. so bad you can't use ad warps without crashing. I decided to peek at the "Free Dilithium" offers twice. Game crashed both times just looking. I didn't even have to click something. If this is the new coding, they will have next to no revenue, even without the boycotting.
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I dunno how to make a Venn diagram but if I did, I'd make one where one data set was "Players Whose Dedication Is Taken For Granted By Greedy Company" and the other is "Players Whose Dedication Is Taken For Granted By Other Players" and in the middle would be Big Book and Wiki Creators.
I dunno how to make a Venn diagram but if I did, I'd make one where one data set was "Players Whose Dedication Is Taken For Granted By Greedy Company" and the other is "Players Whose Dedication Is Taken For Granted By Other Players" and in the middle would be Big Book and Wiki Creators.
If I could awesome this twice, I would.
Seeing your quote of my post brought to my attention that I hadn't properly conjugated the two data sets (I had "was" and "is" instead of both being either). Now you can awesome it by proxy by awesome-ing this one!
I dunno how to make a Venn diagram but if I did, I'd make one where one data set was "Players Whose Dedication Is Taken For Granted By Greedy Company" and the other is "Players Whose Dedication Is Taken For Granted By Other Players" and in the middle would be Big Book and Wiki Creators.
If I could awesome this twice, I would.
I’ll go for a third.
I cannot believe the amount of butt-hurt I’ve read over some players complaining that other players have ceased putting major time/money into tools they created and freely gave to others.
And that isn’t even the biggest loss.
Those players are possibly not going to play anymore. Players who have contributed to the COMMUNITY and feel so strongly about this issue that we may lose them forever. I’ve seen their names all over this forum; I even watched the YouTube videos of their streams.
THAT is the biggest loss we other players will have.
Those players are possibly not going to play anymore. Players who have contributed to the COMMUNITY and feel so strongly about this issue that we may lose them forever. I’ve seen their names all over this forum; I even watched the YouTube videos of their streams.
THAT is the biggest loss we other players will have.
Let‘s wait for who really stops playing forever. I ve been on the forums since it went live and i saw many long term players „threatening“ or/and „announcing“ their retirement, and only a few really retired for good, most came back or didn t retire at all. Which i totally understand, it‘s not easy to just get rid of a game that u played for so long, invested so much time, ressources and money into.
My personal opinion is, that if the game doesn t provide you anymore joy or fun, just quit and move on, if you can manage to do it. But there‘s no need to make a fuss about, or doing big announcements on forums. This game has outlived many player riots and „we stop spending, quit the game“ incidents/threats.
And even if some ppl really retire over this or stop spending, the game will continue and the effects on the TP revenue will probably not even noticable.
Sure it‘s always kinda „sad“ to see long term players retire, but honestly it doesn t affect my game experience at all(except if long term fleet members/friends retire). But thats just me, everyone can have their own opinion about this, of course.
Regarding the wall:
I dislike the wall as well, but mainly because on iOS we only have the „stupid“ surveys, which really are ****. The privacy issues have been adressed by TP and other players have pointed out as well(with facts/research), that there isn t such of a big issue as some players suggest here. Not sure as well if we really need
4-5? different threads all about the same topic, but yeah no pitchforks no fun, i guess?
Those players are possibly not going to play anymore. Players who have contributed to the COMMUNITY and feel so strongly about this issue that we may lose them forever. I’ve seen their names all over this forum; I even watched the YouTube videos of their streams.
THAT is the biggest loss we other players will have.
Let‘s wait for who really stops playing forever. I ve been on the forums since it went live and i saw many long term players „threatening“ or/and „announcing“ their retirement, and only a few really retired for good, most came back or didn t retire at all. Which i totally understand, it‘s not easy to just get rid of a game that u played for so long, invested so much time, ressources and money into.
My personal opinion is, that if the game doesn t provide you anymore joy or fun, just quit and move on, if you can manage to do it. But there‘s no need to make a fuss about, or doing big announcements on forums. This game has outlived many player riots and „we stop spending, quit the game“ incidents/threats.
And even if some ppl really retire over this or stop spending, the game will continue and the effects on the TP revenue will probably not even noticable.
Sure it‘s always kinda „sad“ to see long term players retire, but honestly it doesn t affect my game experience at all(except if long term fleet members/friends retire). But thats just me, everyone can have their own opinion about this, of course.
Regarding the wall:
I dislike the wall as well, but mainly because on iOS we only have the „stupid“ surveys, which really are ****. The privacy issues have been adressed by TP and other players have pointed out as well(with facts/research), that there isn t such of a big issue as some players suggest here. Not sure as well if we really need
4-5? different threads all about the same topic, but yeah no pitchforks no fun, i guess?
So, basically on the "Helical fastening device y'all, I'm going home" posts, you're saying.....
🖖🏿🖖🏽🖖🏼🖖🏻🖖
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
I think that the players who decided to quit and/or remove their resources because of the wall created this thread and announced their intentions so that other players would be aware of the privacy concerns.
Whether the concerns are reasonable or not is something I can't build an informed opinon on (I'm happy that people from both sides of the argument tried to explain what could be happening and that Shan wrote an announcement, but in the end, at least for me, it comes down to whose knowledge/statements I feel I can trust the most and I honestly have no idea at this point - I'm probably not the only one).
And the players who announced the removal of their resources also made it clear that whether or not they would actually leave (and remove the resources permanently) would depend on TP's statement and decisions on this issue. So far there has only been a partial response from the company, so I don't see why they shouldn't be around anymore.
I also agree with those who said that they created these tools and chose to share them for a while, but that they can ultimately do what they want with them, especially if keeping them available requires significant amounts of time/money.
EDIT: Whoops, wrong thread I wanted to comment on the one created by Captain Idol, but got confused by the similarity of the comments.
And use this thread for comments, it will be easier for me, thank you!
Thank you for this @Shan , however help someone with a rather softened brain from months of lockdown insomnia (and needy rescue kitties) as it doesn't read easy (which isn't a pop at TP/WRG, just between lack of sleep and lots of coding, English doesn't feel like a first language at the moment), could we get this dumbed down into some TL;DR points?
Also, elsewhere on the board, it's been stated that this conflicts with Ironsource's SDK, and that statement revolves around what TP are storing.
I think it would be nice, in terms of simplicity and transparency, to have the following indicated to us:
1) What data of ours TP/WRG stores
2) If that data is monetised
3) A list of 1) for all third parties
Speaking for myself, and hopefully others, I'm fine with TP/WRG using game-related data (including in-app purchases) to make more money as Trek licences aren't handed out cheaply.
It's just exactly what is getting leaked out to any and all third parties that the offer wall has brought to the fore, and it'd be nice for the hornets nest to quieten down for a wee while.
I think it would be nice, in terms of simplicity and transparency, to have the following indicated to us:
1) What data of ours TP/WRG stores
2) If that data is monetised
3) A list of 1) for all third parties
Speaking for myself, and hopefully others, I'm fine with TP/WRG using game-related data (including in-app purchases) to make more money as Trek licences aren't handed out cheaply.
It's just exactly what is getting leaked out to any and all third parties that the offer wall has brought to the fore, and it'd be nice for the hornets nest to quieten down for a wee while.[/quote]
I agree with 1, 2, and 3. This needs to be released to us!
To TP; We all recognize that this has become a major issue, dare I say, 'game changer' -- sorry, I couldn't resist. And it will impact the future of the game. Whether people stay or leave is yet to be determined. We're all still waiting on the official statement from TP. We can all agree that a major mistake was made, and is evidenced by the fact that the official statement is taking so long to come. I'm wondering whether a class action lawsuit will come from this. I'm waiting to make my final decision based on what we learn, and what is stated in the official statement.
For my part, I need to know what information is being gathered on me individually, and where it's being used. I can understand some things that improve game mechanics/performance. But if my more personal information is being gathered and sold to nefarious businesses like Ironsource, then I have a real problem with that.
What I need to understand is what is being gathered and where it's being outsourced to:
Personal name? Date of Birth? Email address? Location? Credit Card information? SS#? Mother's maiden name? Great Grandfather's country of origin? Dog's favorite chew toy? Third future child's bloodtype?
We need transparency. And we need to know what has been gathered, and where it's gone to.
TL;DR (I didn't read previous posts, I'm adding my 2¢ anyway):
I've been playing for, about, two years. All I can say is: TP you are taking the (rhymes with) list... You are breaking up the community... Stop it.
I started this game with ZERO RECOURSES (that I knew of) and did poorly because of it. Then I found the wiki and my gameplay improved; over night. I then found the BB and my gameplay improved, once again. I then found the datacore app and, wouldn't you know it, my gameplay improved. All that is coming to a close because TP refuses to see what right in front of them. TP is prioritizing short term profits over long term player retention. (TP, you are eroding your community and this *will* have detrimental effects on your game. Period.)
TP, please, get rid of the wall and start over. Please realize that you can actually cut out the middle man (IronSource) and make 100% of the profits, for yourself, if you just make your own "offer wall". I realize this is a lot of work, but you have thousands of dedicated STT fans. We want to support you. We want "free" dil. We watch ads and, maybe, even buy offers. Take the "power" into your own hands. Take down the offer wall, as powered by IronSource, and make your own.
Heal this community or risk hemorrhaging players to the point the game becomes unsustainable. Please and thank you.
Personally, I think TP's privacy statement is fine. If someone has evidence that they're lying, the company will probably be in a lot of trouble in court. But it looks like the whole thing has been drawn up by a bunch of lawyers - i'm not one, so i can't say if there are loop holes.
I like the offer wall, because it allows non-whales to earn a decent amount of free Dilithium (getting rank 1k or better in events takes very long and the Dilithium payout is pretty low in comparison), so I'd vote for the wall to stay.
Personally, I think TP's privacy statement is fine. If someone has evidence that they're lying, the company will probably be in a lot of trouble in court. But it looks like the whole thing has been drawn up by a bunch of lawyers - i'm not one, so i can't say if there are loop holes.
I like the offer wall, because it allows non-whales to earn a decent amount of free Dilithium (getting rank 1k or better in events takes very long and the Dilithium payout is pretty low in comparison), so I'd vote for the wall to stay.
Even if everything else is in order right now, the point stands that changes were made and TP, by their own admission, failed to notify any of us that they'd done that. That alone is an egregious violation of trust, if not law. I can't think of any other app or service that doesn't make me confirm that I've at least seen updated TOS before I can proceed to use the app or service. Unanswered questions linger. Would TP have bothered notifying anyone of the changed TOS at all if they hadn't been called out for violating the previous TOS? Will they notify us properly of future changes? Had they even changed the TOS prior to The Wall being caught and exposed and hadn't told us, or had they changed it once it was caught and have tried to play it off like it'd been that way for awhile? Those are serious questions of integrity that have been raised by this debacle. And that's even if everything else is in order now, which remains to be seen.
Personally, I think TP's privacy statement is fine. If someone has evidence that they're lying, the company will probably be in a lot of trouble in court. But it looks like the whole thing has been drawn up by a bunch of lawyers - i'm not one, so i can't say if there are loop holes.
I like the offer wall, because it allows non-whales to earn a decent amount of free Dilithium (getting rank 1k or better in events takes very long and the Dilithium payout is pretty low in comparison), so I'd vote for the wall to stay.
Even if everything else is in order right now, the point stands that changes were made and TP, by their own admission, failed to notify any of us that they'd done that. That alone is an egregious violation of trust, if not law. I can't think of any other app or service that doesn't make me confirm that I've at least seen updated TOS before I can proceed to use the app or service. Unanswered questions linger. Would TP have bothered notifying anyone of the changed TOS at all if they hadn't been called out for violating the previous TOS? Will they notify us properly of future changes? Had they even changed the TOS prior to The Wall being caught and exposed and hadn't told us, or had they changed it once it was caught and have tried to play it off like it'd been that way for awhile? Those are serious questions of integrity that have been raised by this debacle. And that's even if everything else is in order now, which remains to be seen.
Yep! I think lawyers are earning their pay right now.
And use this thread for comments, it will be easier for me, thank you!
Hi Shan.
Can you let us know if you expect to be able to provide more information please? It's been a while...
Thanks
Dave
You took the words out of my mouth!
Either TP Lawyers are very bad at thier jobs or TP gon and done something very wrong......2 weeks in and still no real update.
What has been asked for over and over and over and over and over:
1. When does IronSource start collecting data (on game open, on wall open, on wall offer click, etc)
2. What does IronSource collect from mobile device (PI, PII, Device info, Location info, App info, Browser cookie or cache data, etc)
What a responsibile & law abiding data owner, collector and processor would and should also do at this stage:
3. Detail the data safe-gaurding policy
4. Detail the data security (you know throw some words like encyrtpted at source and during transmission, SHA-256, TLS 2.0, encryption key holder security and so on)
5. Detail data usage (processing, sharing and sale) beyond collection
Surely when the commercial deal was done, all this would or should have been part of some contract or due dilligence.......
its always smelt fishy - but now it stinks something rotten
And use this thread for comments, it will be easier for me, thank you!
Hi Shan.
Can you let us know if you expect to be able to provide more information please? It's been a while...
Thanks
Dave
It's been three business days, and I'd be willing to bet some people took an extra long weekend because of the holiday. Considering how long it took them to piece together the first statement, I wouldn't expect anything before next week at the earliest.
I do not have any update to share at this point.
That does not mean that nothing is being discussed or that your recent comments/feedback are being dismissed, quite the contrary.
I am sorry this is slow, when I have something else to share, I will do so.
I do not have any update to share at this point.
That does not mean that nothing is being discussed or that your recent comments/feedback are being dismissed, quite the contrary.
I am sorry this is slow, when I have something else to share, I will do so.
Sorry, but I interpret this as “it’s officially swept under the rug and from here on out we’ll pretend this issue never existed. Move along, folks.”
This is almost verbatim what you’ve said to every other issue that players have brought up and never again addressed.
I hope I’m wrong, but I suspect this is the last that will ever be said from TP on this subject.
Please tell me I’m wrong, Shan.
Please understand that there are limitations to what I am allowed to say.
There is nothing I can do regarding how you decide to interpret something I say.
I have daily discussions about this, I have no reason to believe I will not have an other update to provide. I however do not have the timing for it.
Please understand that there are limitations to what I am allowed to say.
There is nothing I can do regarding how you decide to interpret something I say.
I have daily discussions about this, I have no reason to believe I will not have an other update to provide. I however do not have the timing for it.
Thank you for your work, Shan. I appreciate it.
At this point, and to avoid escalation, it might behoove WRG if Erin would speak.
"In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
Please understand that there are limitations to what I am allowed to say.
There is nothing I can do regarding how you decide to interpret something I say.
I have daily discussions about this, I have no reason to believe I will not have an other update to provide. I however do not have the timing for it.
I hope I speak for everyone when I say we understand you’re in a really tough position. I likewise hope that nobody is throwing abuse your way via PM...customer-facing jobs are always tough and that kind of treatment doesn’t help.
Please understand that there are limitations to what I am allowed to say.
There is nothing I can do regarding how you decide to interpret something I say.
I have daily discussions about this, I have no reason to believe I will not have an other update to provide. I however do not have the timing for it.
Hi Shan.
I really don't envy your position!
I would just ask that in your conversations with the Higher-ups, you emphasize that many of us are looking for clear answers to the issues Kalvin raised a couple posts earlier in this thread. Clear, so that there is very little "interpreting" on what you/TP is saying. The most recent official statement felt to me as something drawn up with lawyers with an undercurrent of "please don't sue us" more than something focused on answering those questions that had been spelled out by people such as Kalvin and the Big Book folks.
Please also remind them that at least some of us are holding off spending, or even running ads, until we get those "clear" answers. Not as a threat, but just as a level of comfort on our part on what is happening with our information, and what all this means as the long term status/future of this game.
Thanks for passing that on!
I do not have any update to share at this point.
That does not mean that nothing is being discussed or that your recent comments/feedback are being dismissed, quite the contrary.
I am sorry this is slow, when I have something else to share, I will do so.
Sorry, but I interpret this as “it’s officially swept under the rug and from here on out we’ll pretend this issue never existed. Move along, folks.”
This is almost verbatim what you’ve said to every other issue that players have brought up and never again addressed.
I hope I’m wrong, but I suspect this is the last that will ever be said from TP on this subject.
Please tell me I’m wrong, Shan.
Founding ADM - PoF family of fleets (POF, POF2 & POF3) - Dear TP: Non sequitur. Your facts are uncoordinated.
Comments
The problem to me is.. while TP might/should have a strong privacy policy, what is IronSource's policy and does allowing them inside the game circumvent ANY policy TP has.
I've taken steps to help mitigate personal damage.. Facebook never had my real birth date or other personal info. But I've created a new email address to isolate STT/TP and hence Ironsource. I use a VPN and devices I may use to connect with the game go through a separate isolated network. I recommend doing the same. If you do go to the wall - don't fill out surveys honestly. Have an email address that you can throw away. It will get hacked.
some of that I had in place prior to this - some I've added because of this. And that is SAD. TP got into bed with a shady company to chase the dollar. I get making a profit - I'm self employed. But this really should have been vetted better.
I'm in the US.. I'm also concerned that leaves me out of any comprehensive privacy policy - by TP or by IronSource.
I get why our wonderful tools are shutting down in protest - I hope it helps TP decide to exit the IronSourse relationship. I do love my Datacorp BBoB etc. Thanks to the devs of those tools! Whether its ended or not.. THANKS
I will also not spend until the wall is removed (normal budget is about 100 a month). Nor will I be going to the Wall. I am considering closing the game down. This isn't Star Trek anymore - not to me.
Seriously, why do you think you're entitled to the Big Book?
Are you paying for the resource? Did you sign some kind of agreement that guarantees this service? No of course not.
It was a free service provided by individuals who put in a countless amount of tine and effort. Think about it for a second, we're not talking a couple of hours but in fact weeks or months of time and effort simply because they loved what they were doing.
They could have kept this to themselves but they instead chose to share their project with the community. Keyword there is "chose".
They are now choosing to end it. It's their project not ours so they are absolutely entitled to this.
They don't need the community's permission to end the project just like they didn't need our permission when they decided to share it.
You don't have to like their decision but you should respect it. Rather than criticize their choice how about you thank them for their time, effort and dedication over all this time.
I am curious though, would you be so upset if they were simply retiring from the game rather than as a protest to the offer wall? Or do you believe that individuals sharing their resources with the community have an obligation to play this game and maintain their resources until the game shuts down?
If you're not happy with the loss of the Big Book, how about you stop whining about it and create your own that you can share with the community? I'm sure everyone wou.d shower you with the same gratitude and appreciation you've so kindly shown these guys.
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Punishing the players would be leaving one more stagnating out-of-date resource out there like the ones I followed for cadets as a newbie that were for a cadet system that had since been replaced. Turns out I -didn't- need 1* CMO McCoy for Cadets. Or the guide that told me to pause on mission 4 on the galaxy map because the choices I made there would affect my reputation with certain factions.
Of course this was just more info that was outdated and didn't apply at the time I was playing those levels. I digress...
I'd buy into the "punishing the players" narrative more if one or more people publicly volunteered to continue the Big Book (at their own time and expense) but were turned down. I haven't seen anyone (singular or as a group) volunteer to keep the Big Book up to date, current, and running as a smooth oiled machine on their own time and their own dime.
Until you're willing to put in the work, you haven't earned the right to complain that a free resource is being removed because its maintainers have moved on from this game.
For the record, I agree with everything that you & Gabe said. Quick note, though: the eXo folks are working on a version:
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Yes, Amazon was forced and, hilariously, we now have issues with bouncing out, crashing, etc. so bad you can't use ad warps without crashing. I decided to peek at the "Free Dilithium" offers twice. Game crashed both times just looking. I didn't even have to click something. If this is the new coding, they will have next to no revenue, even without the boycotting.
If I could awesome this twice, I would.
Seeing your quote of my post brought to my attention that I hadn't properly conjugated the two data sets (I had "was" and "is" instead of both being either). Now you can awesome it by proxy by awesome-ing this one!
I’ll go for a third.
I cannot believe the amount of butt-hurt I’ve read over some players complaining that other players have ceased putting major time/money into tools they created and freely gave to others.
And that isn’t even the biggest loss.
Those players are possibly not going to play anymore. Players who have contributed to the COMMUNITY and feel so strongly about this issue that we may lose them forever. I’ve seen their names all over this forum; I even watched the YouTube videos of their streams.
THAT is the biggest loss we other players will have.
Let‘s wait for who really stops playing forever. I ve been on the forums since it went live and i saw many long term players „threatening“ or/and „announcing“ their retirement, and only a few really retired for good, most came back or didn t retire at all. Which i totally understand, it‘s not easy to just get rid of a game that u played for so long, invested so much time, ressources and money into.
My personal opinion is, that if the game doesn t provide you anymore joy or fun, just quit and move on, if you can manage to do it. But there‘s no need to make a fuss about, or doing big announcements on forums. This game has outlived many player riots and „we stop spending, quit the game“ incidents/threats.
And even if some ppl really retire over this or stop spending, the game will continue and the effects on the TP revenue will probably not even noticable.
Sure it‘s always kinda „sad“ to see long term players retire, but honestly it doesn t affect my game experience at all(except if long term fleet members/friends retire). But thats just me, everyone can have their own opinion about this, of course.
Regarding the wall:
I dislike the wall as well, but mainly because on iOS we only have the „stupid“ surveys, which really are ****. The privacy issues have been adressed by TP and other players have pointed out as well(with facts/research), that there isn t such of a big issue as some players suggest here. Not sure as well if we really need
4-5? different threads all about the same topic, but yeah no pitchforks no fun, i guess?
So, basically on the "Helical fastening device y'all, I'm going home" posts, you're saying.....
🖖🏿🖖🏽🖖🏼🖖🏻🖖
Whether the concerns are reasonable or not is something I can't build an informed opinon on (I'm happy that people from both sides of the argument tried to explain what could be happening and that Shan wrote an announcement, but in the end, at least for me, it comes down to whose knowledge/statements I feel I can trust the most and I honestly have no idea at this point - I'm probably not the only one).
And the players who announced the removal of their resources also made it clear that whether or not they would actually leave (and remove the resources permanently) would depend on TP's statement and decisions on this issue. So far there has only been a partial response from the company, so I don't see why they shouldn't be around anymore.
I also agree with those who said that they created these tools and chose to share them for a while, but that they can ultimately do what they want with them, especially if keeping them available requires significant amounts of time/money.
EDIT: Whoops, wrong thread
Thank you for this @Shan , however help someone with a rather softened brain from months of lockdown insomnia (and needy rescue kitties) as it doesn't read easy (which isn't a pop at TP/WRG, just between lack of sleep and lots of coding, English doesn't feel like a first language at the moment), could we get this dumbed down into some TL;DR points?
Also, elsewhere on the board, it's been stated that this conflicts with Ironsource's SDK, and that statement revolves around what TP are storing.
I think it would be nice, in terms of simplicity and transparency, to have the following indicated to us:
1) What data of ours TP/WRG stores
2) If that data is monetised
3) A list of 1) for all third parties
Speaking for myself, and hopefully others, I'm fine with TP/WRG using game-related data (including in-app purchases) to make more money as Trek licences aren't handed out cheaply.
It's just exactly what is getting leaked out to any and all third parties that the offer wall has brought to the fore, and it'd be nice for the hornets nest to quieten down for a wee while.
[/quote]
I think it would be nice, in terms of simplicity and transparency, to have the following indicated to us:
1) What data of ours TP/WRG stores
2) If that data is monetised
3) A list of 1) for all third parties
Speaking for myself, and hopefully others, I'm fine with TP/WRG using game-related data (including in-app purchases) to make more money as Trek licences aren't handed out cheaply.
It's just exactly what is getting leaked out to any and all third parties that the offer wall has brought to the fore, and it'd be nice for the hornets nest to quieten down for a wee while.[/quote]
I agree with 1, 2, and 3. This needs to be released to us!
To TP; We all recognize that this has become a major issue, dare I say, 'game changer' -- sorry, I couldn't resist. And it will impact the future of the game. Whether people stay or leave is yet to be determined. We're all still waiting on the official statement from TP. We can all agree that a major mistake was made, and is evidenced by the fact that the official statement is taking so long to come. I'm wondering whether a class action lawsuit will come from this. I'm waiting to make my final decision based on what we learn, and what is stated in the official statement.
For my part, I need to know what information is being gathered on me individually, and where it's being used. I can understand some things that improve game mechanics/performance. But if my more personal information is being gathered and sold to nefarious businesses like Ironsource, then I have a real problem with that.
What I need to understand is what is being gathered and where it's being outsourced to:
Personal name? Date of Birth? Email address? Location? Credit Card information? SS#? Mother's maiden name? Great Grandfather's country of origin? Dog's favorite chew toy? Third future child's bloodtype?
We need transparency. And we need to know what has been gathered, and where it's gone to.
Proud member of Patterns of Force
Captain Level 99
Played since January 2017
TP: Do better!!!
I've been playing for, about, two years. All I can say is: TP you are taking the (rhymes with) list... You are breaking up the community... Stop it.
I started this game with ZERO RECOURSES (that I knew of) and did poorly because of it. Then I found the wiki and my gameplay improved; over night. I then found the BB and my gameplay improved, once again. I then found the datacore app and, wouldn't you know it, my gameplay improved. All that is coming to a close because TP refuses to see what right in front of them. TP is prioritizing short term profits over long term player retention. (TP, you are eroding your community and this *will* have detrimental effects on your game. Period.)
TP, please, get rid of the wall and start over. Please realize that you can actually cut out the middle man (IronSource) and make 100% of the profits, for yourself, if you just make your own "offer wall". I realize this is a lot of work, but you have thousands of dedicated STT fans. We want to support you. We want "free" dil. We watch ads and, maybe, even buy offers. Take the "power" into your own hands. Take down the offer wall, as powered by IronSource, and make your own.
Heal this community or risk hemorrhaging players to the point the game becomes unsustainable. Please and thank you.
I like the offer wall, because it allows non-whales to earn a decent amount of free Dilithium (getting rank 1k or better in events takes very long and the Dilithium payout is pretty low in comparison), so I'd vote for the wall to stay.
Even if everything else is in order right now, the point stands that changes were made and TP, by their own admission, failed to notify any of us that they'd done that. That alone is an egregious violation of trust, if not law. I can't think of any other app or service that doesn't make me confirm that I've at least seen updated TOS before I can proceed to use the app or service. Unanswered questions linger. Would TP have bothered notifying anyone of the changed TOS at all if they hadn't been called out for violating the previous TOS? Will they notify us properly of future changes? Had they even changed the TOS prior to The Wall being caught and exposed and hadn't told us, or had they changed it once it was caught and have tried to play it off like it'd been that way for awhile? Those are serious questions of integrity that have been raised by this debacle. And that's even if everything else is in order now, which remains to be seen.
Yep! I think lawyers are earning their pay right now.
Hi Shan.
Can you let us know if you expect to be able to provide more information please? It's been a while...
Thanks
Dave
You took the words out of my mouth!
Either TP Lawyers are very bad at thier jobs or TP gon and done something very wrong......2 weeks in and still no real update.
What has been asked for over and over and over and over and over:
1. When does IronSource start collecting data (on game open, on wall open, on wall offer click, etc)
2. What does IronSource collect from mobile device (PI, PII, Device info, Location info, App info, Browser cookie or cache data, etc)
What a responsibile & law abiding data owner, collector and processor would and should also do at this stage:
3. Detail the data safe-gaurding policy
4. Detail the data security (you know throw some words like encyrtpted at source and during transmission, SHA-256, TLS 2.0, encryption key holder security and so on)
5. Detail data usage (processing, sharing and sale) beyond collection
Surely when the commercial deal was done, all this would or should have been part of some contract or due dilligence.......
its always smelt fishy - but now it stinks something rotten
It's been three business days, and I'd be willing to bet some people took an extra long weekend because of the holiday. Considering how long it took them to piece together the first statement, I wouldn't expect anything before next week at the earliest.
I do not have any update to share at this point.
That does not mean that nothing is being discussed or that your recent comments/feedback are being dismissed, quite the contrary.
I am sorry this is slow, when I have something else to share, I will do so.
Sorry, but I interpret this as “it’s officially swept under the rug and from here on out we’ll pretend this issue never existed. Move along, folks.”
This is almost verbatim what you’ve said to every other issue that players have brought up and never again addressed.
I hope I’m wrong, but I suspect this is the last that will ever be said from TP on this subject.
Please tell me I’m wrong, Shan.
There is nothing I can do regarding how you decide to interpret something I say.
I have daily discussions about this, I have no reason to believe I will not have an other update to provide. I however do not have the timing for it.
Thank you for your work, Shan. I appreciate it.
At this point, and to avoid escalation, it might behoove WRG if Erin would speak.
I hope I speak for everyone when I say we understand you’re in a really tough position. I likewise hope that nobody is throwing abuse your way via PM...customer-facing jobs are always tough and that kind of treatment doesn’t help.
Hi Shan.
I really don't envy your position!
I would just ask that in your conversations with the Higher-ups, you emphasize that many of us are looking for clear answers to the issues Kalvin raised a couple posts earlier in this thread. Clear, so that there is very little "interpreting" on what you/TP is saying. The most recent official statement felt to me as something drawn up with lawyers with an undercurrent of "please don't sue us" more than something focused on answering those questions that had been spelled out by people such as Kalvin and the Big Book folks.
Please also remind them that at least some of us are holding off spending, or even running ads, until we get those "clear" answers. Not as a threat, but just as a level of comfort on our part on what is happening with our information, and what all this means as the long term status/future of this game.
Thanks for passing that on!