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Offer Wall and Privacy Concerns Statement

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  • dext74dext74 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Shan wrote: »
    Please understand that there are limitations to what I am allowed to say.
    There is nothing I can do regarding how you decide to interpret something I say.

    I have daily discussions about this, I have no reason to believe I will not have an other update to provide. I however do not have the timing for it.

    Hey @Shan - I greatly appreciate your updates and understand the awful customer service/liason position that you're in right now. Irrelevant of my own feelings about the Wall, I just wondered if you were allowed to offer any details on to WHY the discussion is being delayed? I know you can't get into specifics - but is delay due to legal ramifications/lawyers kind of situation versus something like teams working from home during virus stuff and it's harder to communicate/collaborate on things versus trying to get ahold of the appropriate people at Ironsource compared to solely internal? The reason behind the delay might do a lot to help reassure some of those concerned about the existence of a delay in response?
  • Riker's islan{DD}Riker's islan{DD} ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2020
    - Having now tried to raise GDPR tickets twice with Support, to no avail, on each instance with the customer service agents / service leads pleading for more time to analyse the issue, I no longer have any confidence that WRTP takes this issue with any seriousness. As a consequence, Wednesday 10th last, I made my complaints to official state regulators and (digital) consumer advocates. I will keep the community appraised.


    By Law - they must respond with in 30 days of the request. I have also raised a request and was "put on hold" whilst they gather information. I will wait the 30 days and if no information is furbished will riase the issue with the ICO
  • If you need a "formal" GDPR Subject Access Request, please see below. Alter as per your specific needs:
    [Your full address]
    [Phone number]
    [The date]

    [Name and address of the organisation if relevant]
    [Reference number (if provided within the initial response)]

    Dear [Sir or Madam / name of the person you have been in contact with]

    Information rights concern
    [Your full name and address and any other details such as account number to help identify you]

    I am concerned that you have not handled my personal information properly.

    [Give details of your concern, explaining clearly and simply what has happened and, where appropriate, the effect it has had on you.]

    I understand that before reporting my concern to the Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO) I should give you the chance to deal with it.

    If, when I receive your response, I would still like to report my concern to the ICO, I will give them a copy of it to consider.

    You can find guidance on your obligations under information rights legislation on the ICO’s website (www.ico.org.uk) as well as information on their regulatory powers and the action they can take.

    Please send a full response within one calendar month. If you cannot respond within that timescale, please tell me when you will be able to respond.

    If there is anything you would like to discuss, please contact me on the following number [telephone number].


    Yours faithfully
    [Signature]
  • OomoxOomox ✭✭✭
    edited July 2020
    - Having now tried to raise GDPR tickets twice with Support, to no avail, on each instance with the customer service agents / service leads pleading for more time to analyse the issue, I no longer have any confidence that WRTP takes this issue with any seriousness. As a consequence, Wednesday 10th last, I made my complaints to official state regulators and (digital) consumer advocates. I will keep the community appraised.


    By Law - they must respond with in 30 days of the request. I have also raised a request and was "put on hold" whilst they gather information. I will wait the 30 days and if no information is furbished will riase the issue with the ICO

    Excellent - I'd encourage all Trekkers to do so.

    Unlike you, I see only poor faith and deflection on WRTPs behalf with empty posturing here on forums and through support - although I hasten to that is the received and perceived message content, and not the messengers. Hence my escalation.
  • OomoxOomox ✭✭✭
    At this point, I am unsure if I am playing a game or enabling a data harvester. Some concrete reassurance from the studio (WRG) might assuage my fear.

    I do not trust TP.

    I share that perception and those concerns.
  • So the wall is gone on iOS. Shan, what has been removed? The button, the SDK? What is the status of our data today compared to before the wall was introduced?

    For those unlucky ones of us who did a survey: Can Ironsource still access our data somehow through the fact that STT is installed, other than the minimum dataset required for watching and rewarding ads?

    Also, what happens with all the offers players had started? Will they be getting the Dil automatically, or do they still need to complete their half of the bargain?
  • RoxtonRoxton ✭✭✭
    Now ios has lost the wall what happens to those who had started offers on ios.
    Do they get their rewards ??
    Star Truckerz
    It's only my opinion but....

  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm not assuaged by this announcement whatsoever.
    Today we’ve removed the Offer Wall from iOS indefinitely.
    Due to Apple guidelines the offers that can be presented on iOS are unfortunately too limited to be of interest. Please restart your game to see the change.

    This reads like scapegoating Apple.
    We know that there are still some ongoing concerns regarding the Offer Wall in general, we are working with ironSource to address those concerns, as best and as quickly as we can. This will involve clarification about their practices.

    This is currently our main priority, alongside making sure that the offers available on Android are ones you can be satisfied with.

    This reads like tacit admission our fellow forum members who called them out for violating Apple's TOS were correct. I'm also troubled that the priority isn't holding ironSource to Apple's standards. Coupled with the language of ironSource's own website, I'm left with the impression that neither ironSource or TP will adhere to those standards because their practices and profit rely on not doing that. I'll continue holding out for now until whatever is decided with ironSource is formally announced, but it's looking worse, not better.

    Actually, it reads like Apple had rules that protected their customers from MalWall.

    "The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
  • This reads like scapegoating Apple.

    I hadn't seen it in that light, but yeah, you could be right given the wording.

    Surely they'd have known iOS wouldn't support the same offers as Android when doing their due diligence? (I know, I know, I'm assuming due diligence was actually done)

    It does come across a bit like the UK's track and trace farrago.
    This reads like tacit admission our fellow forum members who called them out for violating Apple's TOS were correct. I'm also troubled that the priority isn't holding ironSource to Apple's standards. Coupled with the language of ironSource's own website, I'm left with the impression that neither ironSource or TP will adhere to those standards because their practices and profit rely on not doing that. I'll continue holding out for now until whatever is decided with ironSource is formally announced, but it's looking worse, not better.

    I'm not fussed about them matching Apple's standards, just that they protect our data - not merely from a legal standpoint, but from a position of not being scummy really.

    There seems to be a lot of tap-dancing around the core issues by TP/WRG, for which there may be many reasons, but I can't think of many where they come smelling of anything other manure.

    I'm trying to take a positive stance that this stuff wasn't thought about, and now they're trying to rectify that and get it right, but thats starting to feel a little like running up the down escalator.
  • Dirk GundersonDirk Gunderson ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm not assuaged by this announcement whatsoever.
    Today we’ve removed the Offer Wall from iOS indefinitely.
    Due to Apple guidelines the offers that can be presented on iOS are unfortunately too limited to be of interest. Please restart your game to see the change.

    This reads like scapegoating Apple.
    We know that there are still some ongoing concerns regarding the Offer Wall in general, we are working with ironSource to address those concerns, as best and as quickly as we can. This will involve clarification about their practices.

    This is currently our main priority, alongside making sure that the offers available on Android are ones you can be satisfied with.

    This reads like tacit admission our fellow forum members who called them out for violating Apple's TOS were correct. I'm also troubled that the priority isn't holding ironSource to Apple's standards. Coupled with the language of ironSource's own website, I'm left with the impression that neither ironSource or TP will adhere to those standards because their practices and profit rely on not doing that. I'll continue holding out for now until whatever is decided with ironSource is formally announced, but it's looking worse, not better.

    I was so surprised and excited to see it was gone, rather than left in but with mealy-mouthed assurances of data security, that I went ahead and renewed my monthly card and got the campaign. Reading your analysis has me wondering if I wasn’t too hasty...offers being “too limited to be of interest” is an odd way of wording “exceptionally predatory, sleazy, and of dubious value.” I’m not sure I see it as throwing Apple under the bus, just that a more thorough review of what was in the Wall determined that the offers that showed up were too close to whatever criteria Apple has for use of data to be worth keeping in the game.

    As for the Wall now only being available to Android users causing an imbalance, that imbalance already existed because of the limitations for Steam/Windows/FB Gameroom players. A computer-based Android emulator can not only restore Wall access but provide offers that are less obviously terrible.
  • Thanks, Shan. I play a lot of other games with offer walls (including Kim Kardashian's fashion game - don't hate me), and noticed that they're all survey offers on iOS now. Those games have kept the offer wall in place, fwiw, so I doubt DBTPWRG were skirting any illegal issues by opting to remove it.

    I mean, Kim K trusts it, and if we can't trust Kimye, who can we?
    Proud Former Admiral of eXodus
    Proud Former Officer of The Gluten Empire

    Retired 12-14-20. So long, and thanks for all the cat pics!
  • AviTrekAviTrek ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks, Shan. I play a lot of other games with offer walls (including Kim Kardashian's fashion game - don't hate me), and noticed that they're all survey offers on iOS now. Those games have kept the offer wall in place, fwiw, so I doubt DBTPWRG were skirting any illegal issues by opting to remove it.

    I mean, Kim K trusts it, and if we can't trust Kimye, who can we?

    The way I see it, the surveys have been considered the worst of the offers from a data privacy perspective. They were allowed by the Apple App store, but TP decided they were too predatory, not worth the DIL to players, not worth the payment to TP, so the offer wall was removed from iOS since that's all that was there. On Android since the game downloads are available which have better data security/control and offer better payments to TP and player, TP decided to keep the offer wall active.
  • No, I agree. I was responding to the people saying that TP was breaching Apple's TOS so that is why they had to remove it. It's still there in a lot of other games, including Kimye's fashion empire. I actually like the choice that TP made to pull it from iOS, although I will miss the free dil.
    Proud Former Admiral of eXodus
    Proud Former Officer of The Gluten Empire

    Retired 12-14-20. So long, and thanks for all the cat pics!
  • With the removal from iOS versions, this now puts large parts of the playerbase (Steam and iOS users) at a disadvantage vs. Android users who can still access offers. This seems unfair, and I request the wall be removed on Android too for the sake of parity.

    Buy an cheap used android device and do the offers there. 🤗

    I'm actually on Android. I feel the advantage we have now is too unfair.
  • ~peregrine~~peregrine~ ✭✭✭✭✭
    There are already many advantages to players based on location.
    At my location (thailand) there are only games on offer and any surveys are forbidden.

    But most games require you to pay and if you pay why not pay for an offer directly in stt.

    The realy free dilitium seemed to come from surveys , which are mostly available in the USA and some other western countries.
    So if you are prepared to give away your privacy you could maybe get an advantage, but only if you are now in one of these countries and not on apple.

    Many games and many players seem to forget that location and infrastructure are very important for your chances to be competitive and the gap is only growing with emphasis on USA.

    Privacy concerns are important to me on principle but not in practice because internet use is already monitored by the government.

    I am not using offerwall because of the concerns stated and to show my support to the long term. Players who made tools available for free.

    I started stt before but since there is no tutorial its very complex and no good manual without tools like the big book or datacore i gave up fast because i did not know what to do and spend money without getting anywhere.

    The learningcurve of stt is big and without the proper tools to advice you I suspect many new players will give up too.

    So from a purely commercial point of view:

    1)The offerwall is only available to non apple: users
    2) surveys are a privacy risk and as implemented and might be unlawful in many countries.
    3) offerwall is not available or very limited (i think i counted 16 games here) in many countries.
    4) it resulted in free tools being withdrawn which are essential for new players to know what they are doing. If not available TP might need to build their own.

    Keeping the offerwall does not seem to. Make much commercial sense.

    Well said. 🖖
    "In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
  • bennybenny ✭✭✭
    I wonder if this association was discussed with CBS.

    Probably not, but some of the more upset players can definitely reach out to them for awareness.
  • Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
    Shan wrote: »
    Let me clarify what we meant regarding Apple Guidelines.

    As many of you have noticed, on Android a lot of the OW offers are about games, which is great.

    Unfortunately presenting offers for games is not something Apple allows anymore, those are the guidelines we are referring to in our message.

    I hope this frames the context better :)

    Did Apple allow them when The Wall went live?
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