I also don't plan to win. But if Empress Penguin is indeed in the same fleet, then @SSR Barkley was being more serious than I realized about asking to win.
Not sure what being in the same fleet has to do with talking to Mech. But yes, I was being absolutely serious. Diplomacy goes a long way. There's some of us, including Rowden, who've been friends for a while and talk to each other to make sure we're not stepping on each other's toes.
The game can be more about the relationships you build and the friendships you form with others.
Maybe the reason Mech wins so many, and continues to do so convincingly is almost nobody else has bothered to come to an arrangement. What you see, instead, is the envy and loathing in the social groups and ugliness in PM's about how he continues to win events.
What I see is dilithium.
I will be be damned if I have to ask someone for permission to compete in an event and stand a chance. That is wrong on so many levels.
"In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
I also don't plan to win. But if Empress Penguin is indeed in the same fleet, then @SSR Barkley was being more serious than I realized about asking to win.
Not sure what being in the same fleet has to do with talking to Mech. But yes, I was being absolutely serious. Diplomacy goes a long way. There's some of us, including Rowden, who've been friends for a while and talk to each other to make sure we're not stepping on each other's toes.
The game can be more about the relationships you build and the friendships you form with others.
Maybe the reason Mech wins so many, and continues to do so convincingly is almost nobody else has bothered to come to an arrangement. What you see, instead, is the envy and loathing in the social groups and ugliness in PM's about how he continues to win events.
What I see is dilithium.
Indeed. I'm sure there is nuance. There's ways to minimize financial cost. But surely after the second one, stockpiled resources are gone. Dilithium is necessary. How that is optimized is certainly an interesting thought experiment.
I find it interesting that @Rowden said something about top players proving themselves by beating someone else who is at the top of their game. Then @SSR Barkley says that the game can be more about relationships. These are interesting thoughts to me. Can they both be true at the same time?
I also don't plan to win. But if Empress Penguin is indeed in the same fleet, then @SSR Barkley was being more serious than I realized about asking to win.
Not sure what being in the same fleet has to do with talking to Mech. But yes, I was being absolutely serious. Diplomacy goes a long way. There's some of us, including Rowden, who've been friends for a while and talk to each other to make sure we're not stepping on each other's toes.
The game can be more about the relationships you build and the friendships you form with others.
Maybe the reason Mech wins so many, and continues to do so convincingly is almost nobody else has bothered to come to an arrangement. What you see, instead, is the envy and loathing in the social groups and ugliness in PM's about how he continues to win events.
What I see is dilithium.
Indeed. I'm sure there is nuance. There's ways to minimize financial cost. But surely after the second one, stockpiled resources are gone. Dilithium is necessary. How that is optimized is certainly an interesting thought experiment.
I find it interesting that @Rowden said something about top players proving themselves by beating someone else who is at the top of their game. Then @SSR Barkley says that the game can be more about relationships. These are interesting thoughts to me. Can they both be true at the same time?
I would think you would need to be squad leader with a strong squad helping you with points for maximum faction event rank. So you would need relationships to some extent.
- August 13: Skirmish Event - Cultural Property (@ForTheMany or @Paladin 27 , usually)
- August 20: Faction Event - Plateau of Tomorrow (@MECHalobe )
- August 27: Galaxy Event - Whistles and Canaries (@Stellar Ice has won a few of these) (as has @Banjo1012 !)
- September 3 : Hybrid Event Galaxy/Skirmish - Restoration
(FtM & Paladin again, and including @Bylo Band here now).
I count 6.
Let’s say that Week 3 is up for grabs. Add 100.
Let’s say that Week 4 is up for grabs. Add 100.
So, and please feel free to correct me if you think my math is wrong, but that’s a pool of 200+ players, fighting for rank. And some of us will never win, because we do not spend.
I made my peace with this aspect of the game years ago, but I understand the frustration that new players might feel.
I just wish that older players (including myself) showed more respect to the newer ones, who actually keep this game going. 🖖
"In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
Respectfully @Rowden, I reject nearly all of your explanation. I do agree that it is nasty when people send mean spirited PMs and I do not support that, but as for the rest, I do not agree.
I am not one of the anti-spending crowd, I am in favor of spending and I support it. I myself am a spender and I have participated in many threads defending the big spenders, here is one such example from several months ago also about spending in Faction events.
When 2020 began and MECHAlobe began his monopoly on Faction events, most people thought it was cool, there was a relatively new face on top for a change. When wins 2 and 3 happened for MECHAlobe most people were like "OK, Dude is flexing to become a household name, OK." Obviously this was starting to make folks nervous but so far there was nothing really to worry about, because the assumption was that after this flexing display was over, things would go back to normal, or some new version of normal.
Then wins 4 through 8 happened, and MECHAlobe kept winning Faction events. Those could be explained away pretty simply by just pointing out that people were now gun shy about taking on MECHAlobe, so he was simply posting a big score on day 1 and coasting, as nobody was really challenging him. No problems there. During that streak the fleet stealing scandal broke and MECHAlobe changed his name to "Don't Tread of Fleets" and was basically a hero for a week, I myself even sent an in game PM that weekend to show my support.
The assumption all along I feel is that MECHAlobe was just being playful during that time, possibly playing a game of "Catch Me if you Can" with the leaderboard. That all changed this weekend when MECHAlobe went from playful eccentric to an enemy of the people. The line was crossed this weekend, as this weekend was when all the other possible explanations for the (now) 9 Faction event wins in 2020 were removed, as MECHAlobe had a determined challenger, and MECHAlobe sent a very loud message that Faction events belong to him.
I will now show two screenshots from this weekend, taken approximately 3 hours apart to illustrate this fact.
The first was taken with approximately 2 days, 19 hours remaining in the event.
The second was taken around 3 hours later, with approximately 2 days, 16 hours remaining.
Just as Torsten-Islay dared to approach the throne, MECHAlobe scored 1,469,600 points...in 3 hours. MECHAlobe had a minimum of three such sprees in the first phase of this event. Myself and a couple other people tried to reverse engineer what it would take to score 1,469,600 points in 3 hours, and we came up with a couple of models, and from there we calculated an approximate cost for such a spree and I will not post that number because it feels tacky, but suffice to say it is extreme.
To resort to such an extreme spending model to win an event is what it is (apologies @~peregrine~ ) and if somebody wants to do that to win a Faction event for the achievement or just to say they won a Faction event, so be it. But to do it just to prevent anybody else from winning so you can win your 9th Faction event of 2020, what the hell is that?!
Point made. Horse dead. Horse kicked. At this point it has crossed over from amusing to malignant.
I'm just gonna reply to the 'enemy of the people comment down' and really point out the extreme double standard MECHAlobe is held to compared with Torsten. MECH went to bed Thursday night with a marginal 200K VP lead, and then woke up to find himself at a 2M VP deficit. You found 1.5M in 3 hrs disdainful in some way, how about the 2.2M VP Torsten put on, which was after his initial 2M VP dil burn he started the event with. As you mentioned, you don't play at the top of faction events often and maybe don't understand all the strategy involved but Torsten strategy of starting the event this way was a deliberate attempt to engage MECHAlobe in an early bidding war. What's more Torsten was not squad lead, and no-one else in his squad was playing hard enough to be involved, so he was happy to take on MECHAlobe and myself with no backup (I personally think this was a critical error 2 v 1 doesn't usually end well). MECHAlobe accepted the invitation and moved to a 1M VP lead. In the screenshots you have suggested he responded to a small change in score from Torsten, but this is complete nonsense, he was likely just taking a break. Torsten then chose not to respond, likely holding a multi-million VP stash of dil to attack the end of the event if MECHAlobe was within striking distance. MECHAlobe then moved to a number he though would be enough to defend such an assault on Sunday or Monday. People think 1M VP is a large lead, it isn't. There are strategies were you can put on 1M VP in under 20 mins. This is why you see players build such large leads.
So to me they were both using very similar methods to obtain VP quickly. This was initiated by Torsten, with MECHAlobe countering. MECHAlobe won the event because he went out of range of a final assault by Torsten.
I find it interesting in all this you only saw MECHAlobe spending.... MECHAlobe responding to other players... how quickly MECHAlobe put on points. And you didn't see Torsten, you didn't see how much support they were receiving from their squads/fleets and you didn't see Rowden who is sitting right there in all your screenshots. You missed the trump card because you did not understand what is actually going on.
I also don't plan to win. But if Empress Penguin is indeed in the same fleet, then @SSR Barkley was being more serious than I realized about asking to win.
Not sure what being in the same fleet has to do with talking to Mech. But yes, I was being absolutely serious. Diplomacy goes a long way. There's some of us, including Rowden, who've been friends for a while and talk to each other to make sure we're not stepping on each other's toes.
The game can be more about the relationships you build and the friendships you form with others.
Maybe the reason Mech wins so many, and continues to do so convincingly is almost nobody else has bothered to come to an arrangement. What you see, instead, is the envy and loathing in the social groups and ugliness in PM's about how he continues to win events.
What I see is dilithium.
Indeed. I'm sure there is nuance. There's ways to minimize financial cost. But surely after the second one, stockpiled resources are gone. Dilithium is necessary. How that is optimized is certainly an interesting thought experiment.
I find it interesting that @Rowden said something about top players proving themselves by beating someone else who is at the top of their game. Then @SSR Barkley says that the game can be more about relationships. These are interesting thoughts to me. Can they both be true at the same time?
Yes they can be. You ideally just need to agree rules of engagement in advance. However, I've seen some explosive falling outs too.
In response to your thought experiment it would be great if you suggest a solution to dilemma MECHAlobe found himself. His opponent dil burned to 4M VP after 1 day, a 2.2M VP lead over you. Your opponent should be capable of adding 3-4M VP over next three days. What is the most cost effective counter strategy where you still win? Surrender is not a solution.
I also don't plan to win. But if Empress Penguin is indeed in the same fleet, then @SSR Barkley was being more serious than I realized about asking to win.
Not sure what being in the same fleet has to do with talking to Mech. But yes, I was being absolutely serious. Diplomacy goes a long way. There's some of us, including Rowden, who've been friends for a while and talk to each other to make sure we're not stepping on each other's toes.
The game can be more about the relationships you build and the friendships you form with others.
Maybe the reason Mech wins so many, and continues to do so convincingly is almost nobody else has bothered to come to an arrangement. What you see, instead, is the envy and loathing in the social groups and ugliness in PM's about how he continues to win events.
What I see is dilithium.
Indeed. I'm sure there is nuance. There's ways to minimize financial cost. But surely after the second one, stockpiled resources are gone. Dilithium is necessary. How that is optimized is certainly an interesting thought experiment.
I find it interesting that @Rowden said something about top players proving themselves by beating someone else who is at the top of their game. Then @SSR Barkley says that the game can be more about relationships. These are interesting thoughts to me. Can they both be true at the same time?
I would think you would need to be squad leader with a strong squad helping you with points for maximum faction event rank. So you would need relationships to some extent.
While that may help, my experience is that it does not matter. I can do just as well from the share boost as I can by having an extra event crew to staff another shuttle.
I also think there is also a big difference between talking with your squadron about tactics and asking a gatekeeper if you're allowed to win an event.
And now that I think about it, does that affect TP's bottom line? Do they make enough money from the gatekeeper to justify him taking a week off to let someone else win instead of natural competition?
Respectfully @Rowden, I reject nearly all of your explanation. I do agree that it is nasty when people send mean spirited PMs and I do not support that, but as for the rest, I do not agree.
I am not one of the anti-spending crowd, I am in favor of spending and I support it. I myself am a spender and I have participated in many threads defending the big spenders, here is one such example from several months ago also about spending in Faction events.
When 2020 began and MECHAlobe began his monopoly on Faction events, most people thought it was cool, there was a relatively new face on top for a change. When wins 2 and 3 happened for MECHAlobe most people were like "OK, Dude is flexing to become a household name, OK." Obviously this was starting to make folks nervous but so far there was nothing really to worry about, because the assumption was that after this flexing display was over, things would go back to normal, or some new version of normal.
Then wins 4 through 8 happened, and MECHAlobe kept winning Faction events. Those could be explained away pretty simply by just pointing out that people were now gun shy about taking on MECHAlobe, so he was simply posting a big score on day 1 and coasting, as nobody was really challenging him. No problems there. During that streak the fleet stealing scandal broke and MECHAlobe changed his name to "Don't Tread of Fleets" and was basically a hero for a week, I myself even sent an in game PM that weekend to show my support.
The assumption all along I feel is that MECHAlobe was just being playful during that time, possibly playing a game of "Catch Me if you Can" with the leaderboard. That all changed this weekend when MECHAlobe went from playful eccentric to an enemy of the people. The line was crossed this weekend, as this weekend was when all the other possible explanations for the (now) 9 Faction event wins in 2020 were removed, as MECHAlobe had a determined challenger, and MECHAlobe sent a very loud message that Faction events belong to him.
I will now show two screenshots from this weekend, taken approximately 3 hours apart to illustrate this fact.
The first was taken with approximately 2 days, 19 hours remaining in the event.
The second was taken around 3 hours later, with approximately 2 days, 16 hours remaining.
Just as Torsten-Islay dared to approach the throne, MECHAlobe scored 1,469,600 points...in 3 hours. MECHAlobe had a minimum of three such sprees in the first phase of this event. Myself and a couple other people tried to reverse engineer what it would take to score 1,469,600 points in 3 hours, and we came up with a couple of models, and from there we calculated an approximate cost for such a spree and I will not post that number because it feels tacky, but suffice to say it is extreme.
To resort to such an extreme spending model to win an event is what it is (apologies @~peregrine~ ) and if somebody wants to do that to win a Faction event for the achievement or just to say they won a Faction event, so be it. But to do it just to prevent anybody else from winning so you can win your 9th Faction event of 2020, what the hell is that?!
Point made. Horse dead. Horse kicked. At this point it has crossed over from amusing to malignant.
I'm just gonna reply to the 'enemy of the people comment down' and really point out the extreme double standard MECHAlobe is held to compared with Torsten. MECH went to bed Thursday night with a marginal 200K VP lead, and then woke up to find himself at a 2M VP deficit. You found 1.5M in 3 hrs disdainful in some way, how about the 2.2M VP Torsten put on, which was after his initial 2M VP dil burn he started the event with. As you mentioned, you don't play at the top of faction events often and maybe don't understand all the strategy involved but Torsten strategy of starting the event this way was a deliberate attempt to engage MECHAlobe in an early bidding war. What's more Torsten was not squad lead, and no-one else in his squad was playing hard enough to be involved, so he was happy to take on MECHAlobe and myself with no backup (I personally think this was a critical error 2 v 1 doesn't usually end well). MECHAlobe accepted the invitation and moved to a 1M VP lead. In the screenshots you have suggested he responded to a small change in score from Torsten, but this is complete nonsense, he was likely just taking a break. Torsten then chose not to respond, likely holding a multi-million VP stash of dil to attack the end of the event if MECHAlobe was within striking distance. MECHAlobe then moved to a number he though would be enough to defend such an assault on Sunday or Monday. People think 1M VP is a large lead, it isn't. There are strategies were you can put on 1M VP in under 20 mins. This is why you see players build such large leads.
So to me they were both using very similar methods to obtain VP quickly. This was initiated by Torsten, with MECHAlobe countering. MECHAlobe won the event because he went out of range of a final assault by Torsten.
I find it interesting in all this you only saw MECHAlobe spending.... MECHAlobe responding to other players... how quickly MECHAlobe put on points. And you didn't see Torsten, you didn't see how much support they were receiving from their squads/fleets and you didn't see Rowden who is sitting right there in all your screenshots. You missed the trump card because you did not understand what is actually going on.
Do you not understand the argument here, or are you deliberately playing obstructionist to deflect attention from something else?
Respectfully @Rowden, I reject nearly all of your explanation. I do agree that it is nasty when people send mean spirited PMs and I do not support that, but as for the rest, I do not agree.
I am not one of the anti-spending crowd, I am in favor of spending and I support it. I myself am a spender and I have participated in many threads defending the big spenders, here is one such example from several months ago also about spending in Faction events.
When 2020 began and MECHAlobe began his monopoly on Faction events, most people thought it was cool, there was a relatively new face on top for a change. When wins 2 and 3 happened for MECHAlobe most people were like "OK, Dude is flexing to become a household name, OK." Obviously this was starting to make folks nervous but so far there was nothing really to worry about, because the assumption was that after this flexing display was over, things would go back to normal, or some new version of normal.
Then wins 4 through 8 happened, and MECHAlobe kept winning Faction events. Those could be explained away pretty simply by just pointing out that people were now gun shy about taking on MECHAlobe, so he was simply posting a big score on day 1 and coasting, as nobody was really challenging him. No problems there. During that streak the fleet stealing scandal broke and MECHAlobe changed his name to "Don't Tread of Fleets" and was basically a hero for a week, I myself even sent an in game PM that weekend to show my support.
The assumption all along I feel is that MECHAlobe was just being playful during that time, possibly playing a game of "Catch Me if you Can" with the leaderboard. That all changed this weekend when MECHAlobe went from playful eccentric to an enemy of the people. The line was crossed this weekend, as this weekend was when all the other possible explanations for the (now) 9 Faction event wins in 2020 were removed, as MECHAlobe had a determined challenger, and MECHAlobe sent a very loud message that Faction events belong to him.
I will now show two screenshots from this weekend, taken approximately 3 hours apart to illustrate this fact.
The first was taken with approximately 2 days, 19 hours remaining in the event.
The second was taken around 3 hours later, with approximately 2 days, 16 hours remaining.
Just as Torsten-Islay dared to approach the throne, MECHAlobe scored 1,469,600 points...in 3 hours. MECHAlobe had a minimum of three such sprees in the first phase of this event. Myself and a couple other people tried to reverse engineer what it would take to score 1,469,600 points in 3 hours, and we came up with a couple of models, and from there we calculated an approximate cost for such a spree and I will not post that number because it feels tacky, but suffice to say it is extreme.
To resort to such an extreme spending model to win an event is what it is (apologies @~peregrine~ ) and if somebody wants to do that to win a Faction event for the achievement or just to say they won a Faction event, so be it. But to do it just to prevent anybody else from winning so you can win your 9th Faction event of 2020, what the hell is that?!
Point made. Horse dead. Horse kicked. At this point it has crossed over from amusing to malignant.
I'm just gonna reply to the 'enemy of the people comment down' and really point out the extreme double standard MECHAlobe is held to compared with Torsten. MECH went to bed Thursday night with a marginal 200K VP lead, and then woke up to find himself at a 2M VP deficit. You found 1.5M in 3 hrs disdainful in some way, how about the 2.2M VP Torsten put on, which was after his initial 2M VP dil burn he started the event with. As you mentioned, you don't play at the top of faction events often and maybe don't understand all the strategy involved but Torsten strategy of starting the event this way was a deliberate attempt to engage MECHAlobe in an early bidding war. What's more Torsten was not squad lead, and no-one else in his squad was playing hard enough to be involved, so he was happy to take on MECHAlobe and myself with no backup (I personally think this was a critical error 2 v 1 doesn't usually end well). MECHAlobe accepted the invitation and moved to a 1M VP lead. In the screenshots you have suggested he responded to a small change in score from Torsten, but this is complete nonsense, he was likely just taking a break. Torsten then chose not to respond, likely holding a multi-million VP stash of dil to attack the end of the event if MECHAlobe was within striking distance. MECHAlobe then moved to a number he though would be enough to defend such an assault on Sunday or Monday. People think 1M VP is a large lead, it isn't. There are strategies were you can put on 1M VP in under 20 mins. This is why you see players build such large leads.
So to me they were both using very similar methods to obtain VP quickly. This was initiated by Torsten, with MECHAlobe countering. MECHAlobe won the event because he went out of range of a final assault by Torsten.
I find it interesting in all this you only saw MECHAlobe spending.... MECHAlobe responding to other players... how quickly MECHAlobe put on points. And you didn't see Torsten, you didn't see how much support they were receiving from their squads/fleets and you didn't see Rowden who is sitting right there in all your screenshots. You missed the trump card because you did not understand what is actually going on.
Do you not understand the argument here, or are you deliberately playing obstructionist to deflect attention from something else?
From Day 1, events were pay-to-win.
From Day 2, players complained about P2W.
From Day 3 until today, the company has done nothing to address these concerns.
Not a damn thing.
After 4+ years, I would expect a company to have it’s *stuff* together and be mindful of its playerbase. Did y’all miss some memos?
"In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
- August 13: Skirmish Event - Cultural Property (@ForTheMany or @Paladin 27 , usually)
- August 20: Faction Event - Plateau of Tomorrow (@MECHalobe )
- August 27: Galaxy Event - Whistles and Canaries (@Stellar Ice has won a few of these)
- September 3 : Hybrid Event Galaxy/Skirmish - Restoration
(FtM & Paladin again, and now including @Bylo Band here now).
I count 5.
Let’s say that Week 3 is up for grabs. Add 100.
Let’s say that Week 4 is up for grabs. Add 100.
So, and please feel free to correct me if you think my math is wrong, but that’s a pool of 200+ players, fighting for rank. And some of us will never win, because we do not spend.
I made my peace with this aspect of the game years ago, but I understand the frustration that new players might feel.
I just wish that older players (including myself) showed more respect to the newer ones, who actually keep this game going. 🖖
I am hurt that my name wasn’t your galaxy example.
- August 13: Skirmish Event - Cultural Property (@ForTheMany or @Paladin 27 , usually)
- August 20: Faction Event - Plateau of Tomorrow (@MECHalobe )
- August 27: Galaxy Event - Whistles and Canaries (@Stellar Ice has won a few of these)
- September 3 : Hybrid Event Galaxy/Skirmish - Restoration
(FtM & Paladin again, and now including @Bylo Band here now).
I count 5.
Let’s say that Week 3 is up for grabs. Add 100.
Let’s say that Week 4 is up for grabs. Add 100.
So, and please feel free to correct me if you think my math is wrong, but that’s a pool of 200+ players, fighting for rank. And some of us will never win, because we do not spend.
I made my peace with this aspect of the game years ago, but I understand the frustration that new players might feel.
I just wish that older players (including myself) showed more respect to the newer ones, who actually keep this game going. 🖖
I am hurt that my name wasn’t your galaxy example.
Paladin is gonna be spending a LOT of chronitons according to this haha
- August 13: Skirmish Event - Cultural Property (@ForTheMany or @Paladin 27 , usually)
- August 20: Faction Event - Plateau of Tomorrow (@MECHalobe )
- August 27: Galaxy Event - Whistles and Canaries (@Stellar Ice has won a few of these)
- September 3 : Hybrid Event Galaxy/Skirmish - Restoration
(FtM & Paladin again, and now including @Bylo Band here now).
I count 5.
Let’s say that Week 3 is up for grabs. Add 100.
Let’s say that Week 4 is up for grabs. Add 100.
So, and please feel free to correct me if you think my math is wrong, but that’s a pool of 200+ players, fighting for rank. And some of us will never win, because we do not spend.
I made my peace with this aspect of the game years ago, but I understand the frustration that new players might feel.
I just wish that older players (including myself) showed more respect to the newer ones, who actually keep this game going. 🖖
I am hurt that my name wasn’t your galaxy example.
Welcome back (Kotter), Enterprise Was Best! I missed you, and I will amend my earlier post. 🖖
EDIT: I fixed it. Hope you & yours are well.
"In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
Try to remember though Bylo how mad you were in that skirmish event recently when people were pming you accusing you of cheating and how many people came to your defense. Seems hypocritical to attack MECHAlobe and call MECHA the enemy of the people when 99.99% of the people have zero chance of even getting top 10 much less top spot. ‘Frustrater of other whales’ would be a more accurate term. I think it is good to give other people a chance like with first to immortalize but with something that so few people have a chance at because of all the whales I am disinclined to say one whale is being mean to other whales. But know I am not against whales. Ultimately they keep the game I love going. So spend whales spend. Don’t try to bully MECHAlobe out of the top spot, outspend MECHA! Apollo needs a new event type and more crew that talk. Godspeed whales.
- August 13: Skirmish Event - Cultural Property (@ForTheMany or @Paladin 27 , usually)
- August 20: Faction Event - Plateau of Tomorrow (@MECHalobe )
- August 27: Galaxy Event - Whistles and Canaries (@Stellar Ice has won a few of these)
- September 3 : Hybrid Event Galaxy/Skirmish - Restoration
(FtM & Paladin again, and now including @Bylo Band here now).
I count 5.
Let’s say that Week 3 is up for grabs. Add 100.
Let’s say that Week 4 is up for grabs. Add 100.
So, and please feel free to correct me if you think my math is wrong, but that’s a pool of 200+ players, fighting for rank. And some of us will never win, because we do not spend.
I made my peace with this aspect of the game years ago, but I understand the frustration that new players might feel.
I just wish that older players (including myself) showed more respect to the newer ones, who actually keep this game going. 🖖
I am hurt that my name wasn’t your galaxy example.
Paladin is gonna be spending a LOT of chronitons according to this haha
Hope I didn’t wake the bear! I was the second place guy to his 13 million by Sunday morning.
- August 13: Skirmish Event - Cultural Property (@ForTheMany or @Paladin 27 , usually)
- August 20: Faction Event - Plateau of Tomorrow (@MECHalobe )
- August 27: Galaxy Event - Whistles and Canaries (@Stellar Ice has won a few of these)
- September 3 : Hybrid Event Galaxy/Skirmish - Restoration
(FtM & Paladin again, and now including @Bylo Band here now).
I count 5.
Let’s say that Week 3 is up for grabs. Add 100.
Let’s say that Week 4 is up for grabs. Add 100.
So, and please feel free to correct me if you think my math is wrong, but that’s a pool of 200+ players, fighting for rank. And some of us will never win, because we do not spend.
I made my peace with this aspect of the game years ago, but I understand the frustration that new players might feel.
I just wish that older players (including myself) showed more respect to the newer ones, who actually keep this game going. 🖖
I am hurt that my name wasn’t your galaxy example.
Welcome back (Kotter), Enterprise Was Best! I missed you, and I will amend my earlier post. 🖖
EDIT: I fixed it. Hope you & yours are well.
Thank you my good friend. I hope you and yours are well as well
Respectfully @Rowden, I reject nearly all of your explanation. I do agree that it is nasty when people send mean spirited PMs and I do not support that, but as for the rest, I do not agree.
I am not one of the anti-spending crowd, I am in favor of spending and I support it. I myself am a spender and I have participated in many threads defending the big spenders, here is one such example from several months ago also about spending in Faction events.
When 2020 began and MECHAlobe began his monopoly on Faction events, most people thought it was cool, there was a relatively new face on top for a change. When wins 2 and 3 happened for MECHAlobe most people were like "OK, Dude is flexing to become a household name, OK." Obviously this was starting to make folks nervous but so far there was nothing really to worry about, because the assumption was that after this flexing display was over, things would go back to normal, or some new version of normal.
Then wins 4 through 8 happened, and MECHAlobe kept winning Faction events. Those could be explained away pretty simply by just pointing out that people were now gun shy about taking on MECHAlobe, so he was simply posting a big score on day 1 and coasting, as nobody was really challenging him. No problems there. During that streak the fleet stealing scandal broke and MECHAlobe changed his name to "Don't Tread of Fleets" and was basically a hero for a week, I myself even sent an in game PM that weekend to show my support.
The assumption all along I feel is that MECHAlobe was just being playful during that time, possibly playing a game of "Catch Me if you Can" with the leaderboard. That all changed this weekend when MECHAlobe went from playful eccentric to an enemy of the people. The line was crossed this weekend, as this weekend was when all the other possible explanations for the (now) 9 Faction event wins in 2020 were removed, as MECHAlobe had a determined challenger, and MECHAlobe sent a very loud message that Faction events belong to him.
I will now show two screenshots from this weekend, taken approximately 3 hours apart to illustrate this fact.
The first was taken with approximately 2 days, 19 hours remaining in the event.
The second was taken around 3 hours later, with approximately 2 days, 16 hours remaining.
Just as Torsten-Islay dared to approach the throne, MECHAlobe scored 1,469,600 points...in 3 hours. MECHAlobe had a minimum of three such sprees in the first phase of this event. Myself and a couple other people tried to reverse engineer what it would take to score 1,469,600 points in 3 hours, and we came up with a couple of models, and from there we calculated an approximate cost for such a spree and I will not post that number because it feels tacky, but suffice to say it is extreme.
To resort to such an extreme spending model to win an event is what it is (apologies @~peregrine~ ) and if somebody wants to do that to win a Faction event for the achievement or just to say they won a Faction event, so be it. But to do it just to prevent anybody else from winning so you can win your 9th Faction event of 2020, what the hell is that?!
Point made. Horse dead. Horse kicked. At this point it has crossed over from amusing to malignant.
I'm just gonna reply to the 'enemy of the people comment down' and really point out the extreme double standard MECHAlobe is held to compared with Torsten. MECH went to bed Thursday night with a marginal 200K VP lead, and then woke up to find himself at a 2M VP deficit. You found 1.5M in 3 hrs disdainful in some way, how about the 2.2M VP Torsten put on, which was after his initial 2M VP dil burn he started the event with. As you mentioned, you don't play at the top of faction events often and maybe don't understand all the strategy involved but Torsten strategy of starting the event this way was a deliberate attempt to engage MECHAlobe in an early bidding war. What's more Torsten was not squad lead, and no-one else in his squad was playing hard enough to be involved, so he was happy to take on MECHAlobe and myself with no backup (I personally think this was a critical error 2 v 1 doesn't usually end well). MECHAlobe accepted the invitation and moved to a 1M VP lead. In the screenshots you have suggested he responded to a small change in score from Torsten, but this is complete nonsense, he was likely just taking a break. Torsten then chose not to respond, likely holding a multi-million VP stash of dil to attack the end of the event if MECHAlobe was within striking distance. MECHAlobe then moved to a number he though would be enough to defend such an assault on Sunday or Monday. People think 1M VP is a large lead, it isn't. There are strategies were you can put on 1M VP in under 20 mins. This is why you see players build such large leads.
So to me they were both using very similar methods to obtain VP quickly. This was initiated by Torsten, with MECHAlobe countering. MECHAlobe won the event because he went out of range of a final assault by Torsten.
I find it interesting in all this you only saw MECHAlobe spending.... MECHAlobe responding to other players... how quickly MECHAlobe put on points. And you didn't see Torsten, you didn't see how much support they were receiving from their squads/fleets and you didn't see Rowden who is sitting right there in all your screenshots. You missed the trump card because you did not understand what is actually going on.
Do you not understand the argument here, or are you deliberately playing obstructionist to deflect attention from something else?
I responded to what you wrote.
No, you didn't. You picked apart a specific example I cited as evidence of the actual issue here, all while dancing around the subject. So let me be clear, of MECHAlobe's 9 Faction wins from 2020...
#1, no problem
#2, no problem
#3, no problem
#4, no problem
#5, no problem
#6, no problem
#7, no problem
#8, no problem
#9, big problem
This last weekend it was plain for all to see that MECHAlobe has sent the message to everyone that nobody else is "allowed" to win a Faction event. That's it, that is the ENTIRE point. This weekend the message was sent: challenge MECHAlobe, and be crushed.
"As you mentioned, you don't play at the top of faction events often and maybe don't understand all the strategy involved"...I never said anything of the sort. I've been top 10 in a Faction event before, and I'm sitting on enough resources that I've been buying and amassing for months that I could threaten the top of any Faction event of my choosing.
And that is the point here, this was the weekend that it all went too far. This was the weekend where the message was sent that no lead will ever be safe. I don't give a damn about any agreements the top players have made among themselves about who is allowed to win any particular event, but when it is on full display that one player will literally spend any amount of money to win every Faction event and thus prevent literally everyone else from ever having a chance for no reason other than to be a gatekeeper, that is the kind of action that threatens the community.
How many wins will be enough? Is he planning to stop at 10? 15? 20? Who knows, and that is the point. Why should other players bother trying anymore, or buy boost packs anymore, or buy the campaigns anymore (campaigns have tons of goodies for Faction events) when they cannot win? I've seen the argument that it has always been like this and to a large degree I agree with that, but in the past a MUCH better job was done by the top players to rotate the wins or whatever the agreements were to not completely crush all hope form the rest of us. That kept the rest of us trying, because we had hope that one day we could work hard, save up enough resources, acquire enough dilithium, to make a once-in-a-lifetime run one weekend and try for a win that felt achievable.
That illusion has been shattered this weekend, and THAT is the point. You can blindly defend MECHAlobe all you want, but I'm telling you that this weekend real damage was done.
I like you Bylo but you are not coming off good in this exchange. It is the same people nearly every week in the top 25. Week after week after week. The same argument you use against MECHAlobe can be used against all the Top 25 that do not give others a chance. Just seems like there is a group of elite fleets that decide who gets to be first most weeks and now they are upset because a player comes along and does not play by their rules. Competitions in mobile games are almost always about who spends the most. Certainly faction events have always been. So the person that spends the most wins. Who wins first was always only for bragging rights. The player has to spend more money than if they just bought a 5/5 with packs. And the reward for top 1 in an event is not much either.
I concur with @Bylo Band . I see no point in going for the top now, when 1500th suffices for the “legendary” card.
Time for y’all to reėvauluate your metrics, or your company will stand a fair chance of losing some long-time players, including me. Maybe my $14/month does not matter to you, but multiply that by 100, or 1000, and then you are looking at a person’s wages. Don’t do that.
I know y’all can do better. I have seen you do better. Step up, WRG.
"In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
Just to chime in on a couple of things with my personal experience
1) Winning events - Agreed, Faction events are the most susceptible to P2W. With Galaxy events the most difficult (ironic how so many people on the forums dislike it). Skirmishes are somewhere in between though they are by far the most 'valuable' event due to its ability to generate honor and also the chron 'subsidy'. I have won one event as I just wanted to complete the achievement. It really comes down to being very selective and strategic with it. Here are some suggestions if you wanna win without P2W
Go after less competitive events - weak card or rerun/flashback (or even the event before)
Don't do a pure Faction event and look to do an event with a Galaxy portion
Make sure you have the cards for the event immortalized to maximise SRs in the event
You are gonna have to accept you are not gonna sleep very much during the event
For me, this was the Falcon Falls 2 a flashback event which was a Faction/Galaxy event. I had been saving shuttle tokens and boosts for this event and had 110k Chrons in the bank (plus quite a few bonus crew for the faction portion). I also had Mintaken Riker, Ambassador Spock and Commander Sela immortalized and had Loken 1/5 FE. The reward card was Galaxy Gallivanting Vash which was a decent card but definitely wasn't super sought after and was the first 5* card going into the Q mega with the first event being Galaxy.
I basically planned nothing for the entire weekend apart from playing the game and was working on the assumption of 6 hours sleep during the Galaxy event. The strategy was to keep it tight in the faction section of the event (within 1-200k VP) and try to make that back in the Galaxy event. Ultimately, I won with just a few thousand VP. So it was still tight.
2) Definitely agree with @~peregrine~ and I think this has been brought up loads and is overly obvious... There's so much gap between 1500th and 25th that there's almost no point in doing anything better than 1500 unless you are wanting to win it. Even back to the time when they expanded the 5* card reward from 1000 to 1500th place, I think it would have been better to deploy the 500 extra cards to the top 500 players. So there's actually some point in doing better then 1500 and out (or 1000 and out back then). The argument that this helps newer players also makes little sense to me. Newer players will just end up with a ton more 1/5 which just clog up their crew spots. I believe this might ironically make it harder for newer players to properly crew their roster as this becomes a quantity vs quality issue
I like you Bylo but you are not coming off good in this exchange. It is the same people nearly every week in the top 25. Week after week after week. The same argument you use against MECHAlobe can be used against all the Top 25 that do not give others a chance. Just seems like there is a group of elite fleets that decide who gets to be first most weeks and now they are upset because a player comes along and does not play by their rules. Competitions in mobile games are almost always about who spends the most. Certainly faction events have always been. So the person that spends the most wins. Who wins first was always only for bragging rights. The player has to spend more money than if they just bought a 5/5 with packs. And the reward for top 1 in an event is not much either.
For there to be an achievement that most players will never be able to claim is indicative of poor game design, in my book. That’s why I keep asking the company to do better.
I know that the company employs many creative and intelligent people. I do not want to cast aspersions, but the game needs an overhaul, y’all. 🖖
"In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
And now that I think about it, does that affect TP's bottom line? Do they make enough money from the gatekeeper to justify him taking a week off to let someone else win instead of natural competition?
Just in response to this particular point, I've heard an increasing number of people say that they don't bother competing and don't bother saving dil to make a Faction run anymore because of the pseudo-monopoly. I've even heard more than one person say recently that [paraphrasing] their retirement is coming up sooner than they thought because the bucket list goal of winning an event is out of reach. That's probably music to the ears of those few players who don't want the competition, but it seems to me be a negative to more players and the game overall.
As far as if it's more profitable for TP? Not sure if they can precisely extrapolate that, but it does remind me of voyage refreshes and how many dips and drabs of dil have been left on the table by a multitude of players who would do the occasional revive, but don't because tokens are blocking that option. Maybe both of those scenarios are better income for TP, at least in the short term. I'd be surprised if it's best for "the health of the game", though.
DB made Factions an event type that you can pay to win. Rather than badgering players to change how they play (if it's within the game's rule set), I'd much rather see WRG change the way events operate to encourage more competition. I imagine that would be difficult to do without sacrificing income.
While I agree that making friends and building relationships in a community is a great thing, getting a person or a group of people to like you, with the specific goal that they will then let you have nice stuff because they have become some kind of gatekeepers, is not a dynamic I find particularly attractive.
On the other hand, I don't think that the current situation is actually MECHAlobe's or other players' fault. If what he likes the most is winning faction events and he's willing to spend any sum of money to reach that goal, then him stepping back doesn't make much sense and doesn't give anyone else's win much value.
I agree with Automaton that this is an issue with the way events (and the game itself) are designed.
And now that I think about it, does that affect TP's bottom line? Do they make enough money from the gatekeeper to justify him taking a week off to let someone else win instead of natural competition?
Just in response to this particular point, I've heard an increasing number of people say that they don't bother competing and don't bother saving dil to make a Faction run anymore because of the pseudo-monopoly. I've even heard more than one person say recently that [paraphrasing] their retirement is coming up sooner than they thought because the bucket list goal of winning an event is out of reach. That's probably music to the ears of those few players who don't want the competition, but it seems to me be a negative to more players and the game overall.
As far as if it's more profitable for TP? Not sure if they can precisely extrapolate that, but it does remind me of voyage refreshes and how many dips and drabs of dil have been left on the table by a multitude of players who would do the occasional revive, but don't because tokens are blocking that option. Maybe both of those scenarios are better income for TP, at least in the short term. I'd be surprised if it's best for "the health of the game", though.
DB made Factions an event type that you can pay to win. Rather than badgering players to change how they play (if it's within the game's rule set), I'd much rather see WRG change the way events operate to encourage more competition. I imagine that would be difficult to do without sacrificing income.
Thanks for the input. My fleet has a few whales. One cut back because of COVID-related income loss. One picked a different event type to win - this may have cost TP some money - and one hasn't gone for an event win (I haven't asked why). I wasn't aware how other big spenders may have felt. (Sorry if I sleighted any whales in my fleet by not mentioning them.)
I like you Bylo but you are not coming off good in this exchange. It is the same people nearly every week in the top 25. Week after week after week. The same argument you use against MECHAlobe can be used against all the Top 25 that do not give others a chance. Just seems like there is a group of elite fleets that decide who gets to be first most weeks and now they are upset because a player comes along and does not play by their rules. Competitions in mobile games are almost always about who spends the most. Certainly faction events have always been. So the person that spends the most wins. Who wins first was always only for bragging rights. The player has to spend more money than if they just bought a 5/5 with packs. And the reward for top 1 in an event is not much either.
Let me give you another take on your top 25 theory. I think I'm up to five top 25 finishes now (two full galaxies and three full factions), with my first being for Torpedo McCoy in the Enterprise mega event.
It is possible that fleets with players who finish in the top 25 attract players who aspire to make the top 25. Then said fleet helps those players achieve that goal. When those captains make it to the top of the leaderboard, it may appear that the fleet is trying to dominate the leaderboard, so your perception is understandable. Just this past weekend, I helped a fleet member set a new personal record and a good friend from another fleet finish in the top 15. It's not that these top fleets "decide" who gets to be in the top 25. They just help their own get there if it happens to be a goal for their recruits.
As to Bylo coming off badly... That's an odd take. Bylo saw a potential problem. He laid out the cause as he saw it. "Enemy of the people" is a bit strong, imo, but the rest seems pretty solid. There is a concern about one type of event having a gatekeeper and what that might say about the health of the game. It's a legitimate question to ask. And seeing as how Bylo is not in one of these "elite fleets" but has made the top 25 multiple times, is he not an ideal player to weigh in on the issue?
Respectfully @Rowden, I reject nearly all of your explanation. I do agree that it is nasty when people send mean spirited PMs and I do not support that, but as for the rest, I do not agree.
I am not one of the anti-spending crowd, I am in favor of spending and I support it. I myself am a spender and I have participated in many threads defending the big spenders, here is one such example from several months ago also about spending in Faction events.
When 2020 began and MECHAlobe began his monopoly on Faction events, most people thought it was cool, there was a relatively new face on top for a change. When wins 2 and 3 happened for MECHAlobe most people were like "OK, Dude is flexing to become a household name, OK." Obviously this was starting to make folks nervous but so far there was nothing really to worry about, because the assumption was that after this flexing display was over, things would go back to normal, or some new version of normal.
Then wins 4 through 8 happened, and MECHAlobe kept winning Faction events. Those could be explained away pretty simply by just pointing out that people were now gun shy about taking on MECHAlobe, so he was simply posting a big score on day 1 and coasting, as nobody was really challenging him. No problems there. During that streak the fleet stealing scandal broke and MECHAlobe changed his name to "Don't Tread of Fleets" and was basically a hero for a week, I myself even sent an in game PM that weekend to show my support.
The assumption all along I feel is that MECHAlobe was just being playful during that time, possibly playing a game of "Catch Me if you Can" with the leaderboard. That all changed this weekend when MECHAlobe went from playful eccentric to an enemy of the people. The line was crossed this weekend, as this weekend was when all the other possible explanations for the (now) 9 Faction event wins in 2020 were removed, as MECHAlobe had a determined challenger, and MECHAlobe sent a very loud message that Faction events belong to him.
I will now show two screenshots from this weekend, taken approximately 3 hours apart to illustrate this fact.
The first was taken with approximately 2 days, 19 hours remaining in the event.
The second was taken around 3 hours later, with approximately 2 days, 16 hours remaining.
Just as Torsten-Islay dared to approach the throne, MECHAlobe scored 1,469,600 points...in 3 hours. MECHAlobe had a minimum of three such sprees in the first phase of this event. Myself and a couple other people tried to reverse engineer what it would take to score 1,469,600 points in 3 hours, and we came up with a couple of models, and from there we calculated an approximate cost for such a spree and I will not post that number because it feels tacky, but suffice to say it is extreme.
To resort to such an extreme spending model to win an event is what it is (apologies @~peregrine~ ) and if somebody wants to do that to win a Faction event for the achievement or just to say they won a Faction event, so be it. But to do it just to prevent anybody else from winning so you can win your 9th Faction event of 2020, what the hell is that?!
Point made. Horse dead. Horse kicked. At this point it has crossed over from amusing to malignant.
I'm just gonna reply to the 'enemy of the people comment down' and really point out the extreme double standard MECHAlobe is held to compared with Torsten. MECH went to bed Thursday night with a marginal 200K VP lead, and then woke up to find himself at a 2M VP deficit. You found 1.5M in 3 hrs disdainful in some way, how about the 2.2M VP Torsten put on, which was after his initial 2M VP dil burn he started the event with. As you mentioned, you don't play at the top of faction events often and maybe don't understand all the strategy involved but Torsten strategy of starting the event this way was a deliberate attempt to engage MECHAlobe in an early bidding war. What's more Torsten was not squad lead, and no-one else in his squad was playing hard enough to be involved, so he was happy to take on MECHAlobe and myself with no backup (I personally think this was a critical error 2 v 1 doesn't usually end well). MECHAlobe accepted the invitation and moved to a 1M VP lead. In the screenshots you have suggested he responded to a small change in score from Torsten, but this is complete nonsense, he was likely just taking a break. Torsten then chose not to respond, likely holding a multi-million VP stash of dil to attack the end of the event if MECHAlobe was within striking distance. MECHAlobe then moved to a number he though would be enough to defend such an assault on Sunday or Monday. People think 1M VP is a large lead, it isn't. There are strategies were you can put on 1M VP in under 20 mins. This is why you see players build such large leads.
So to me they were both using very similar methods to obtain VP quickly. This was initiated by Torsten, with MECHAlobe countering. MECHAlobe won the event because he went out of range of a final assault by Torsten.
I find it interesting in all this you only saw MECHAlobe spending.... MECHAlobe responding to other players... how quickly MECHAlobe put on points. And you didn't see Torsten, you didn't see how much support they were receiving from their squads/fleets and you didn't see Rowden who is sitting right there in all your screenshots. You missed the trump card because you did not understand what is actually going on.
Do you not understand the argument here, or are you deliberately playing obstructionist to deflect attention from something else?
I responded to what you wrote.
No, you didn't. You picked apart a specific example I cited as evidence of the actual issue here, all while dancing around the subject. So let me be clear, of MECHAlobe's 9 Faction wins from 2020...
#1, no problem
#2, no problem
#3, no problem
#4, no problem
#5, no problem
#6, no problem
#7, no problem
#8, no problem
#9, big problem
This last weekend it was plain for all to see that MECHAlobe has sent the message to everyone that nobody else is "allowed" to win a Faction event. That's it, that is the ENTIRE point. This weekend the message was sent: challenge MECHAlobe, and be crushed.
"As you mentioned, you don't play at the top of faction events often and maybe don't understand all the strategy involved"...I never said anything of the sort. I've been top 10 in a Faction event before, and I'm sitting on enough resources that I've been buying and amassing for months that I could threaten the top of any Faction event of my choosing.
And that is the point here, this was the weekend that it all went too far. This was the weekend where the message was sent that no lead will ever be safe. I don't give a damn about any agreements the top players have made among themselves about who is allowed to win any particular event, but when it is on full display that one player will literally spend any amount of money to win every Faction event and thus prevent literally everyone else from ever having a chance for no reason other than to be a gatekeeper, that is the kind of action that threatens the community.
How many wins will be enough? Is he planning to stop at 10? 15? 20? Who knows, and that is the point. Why should other players bother trying anymore, or buy boost packs anymore, or buy the campaigns anymore (campaigns have tons of goodies for Faction events) when they cannot win? I've seen the argument that it has always been like this and to a large degree I agree with that, but in the past a MUCH better job was done by the top players to rotate the wins or whatever the agreements were to not completely crush all hope form the rest of us. That kept the rest of us trying, because we had hope that one day we could work hard, save up enough resources, acquire enough dilithium, to make a once-in-a-lifetime run one weekend and try for a win that felt achievable.
That illusion has been shattered this weekend, and THAT is the point. You can blindly defend MECHAlobe all you want, but I'm telling you that this weekend real damage was done.
As I stated previously, 4 other players have won faction events in the timeframe you referenced. One without spending any money. Whether or not you are capable of winning a faction event is down to you. But it's certainly not more difficult that winning any other event type.
When you play skirmish or galaxy events for the win you will come up against players who need 0-3 hours sleep a night. I have previously played 2 opponents who didn't take a break over a 96 hr period, and one that didn't take a break over the 48 hr skirmish phase (hybrid event). And players also do this at the start of galaxy events. I would think this time commitment, combined with extreme sleep deprivation for over 96 hours (this is an extreme health risk, there are many news articles where gamers have permanently damaged their health or died partaking in this kind of activity) would be a much greater gate-keeper to winning than money is to faction events, since you can win faction events without spending but you cannot win a skirmish without extreme sleep deprivation over 4 days.
Just to chime in on a couple of things with my personal experience
1) Winning events - Agreed, Faction events are the most susceptible to P2W. With Galaxy events the most difficult (ironic how so many people on the forums dislike it).
I’ll jump in and say that I like how Faction events are generally structured - not having to be huddled around my phone for a few hours at a crack, furiously tapping away resources to get stars for a crew that will instantly go into the freezer for another 1-12 months, is nice. I’m willing to do that in a Skirmish because there’s the honor that piles up, but I can also watch TV while I do a Skirmish and be able to pay attention to it, which is not the case for a Skirmish
Faction events have a bit more strategy to them and require a few minutes of input every few hours. If the dilithium recall functionality were to be disabled during the event, the P2W aspect would be nerfed pretty heavily. It wouldn’t go away entirely thanks to shuttle tokens, and the need for a huge number of crew is going to be easier to fulfill for whales than for other people, but I would be quite curious to see what a Faction event would look like without dilithium recalls.
2) Definitely agree with @~peregrine~ and I think this has been brought up loads and is overly obvious... There's so much gap between 1500th and 25th that there's almost no point in doing anything better than 1500 unless you are wanting to win it. Even back to the time when they expanded the 5* card reward from 1000 to 1500th place, I think it would have been better to deploy the 500 extra cards to the top 500 players. So there's actually some point in doing better then 1500 and out (or 1000 and out back then). The argument that this helps newer players also makes little sense to me. Newer players will just end up with a ton more 1/5 which just clog up their crew spots. I believe this might ironically make it harder for newer players to properly crew their roster as this becomes a quantity vs quality issue[/quote]
Agreed 100% - expanding the top 1500 was nice but it would have been equally good to smooth out the rewards between 5th or 25th and 1000th place. Currently, the only reason to end up between 25th and 1500th is to make sure you don’t slip out of the top 1500 at the end of the event because of how tightly clustered the ranks get.
@Rowden - since I don’t want to scroll back through all the posts to find the quote, I have one question that maybe someone else would need to answer about those Skirmish event bonus rewards...with the overall time input reduction through the 2x/3x speed-up buttons, does it make sense any longer to play the Bonus Rewards Slot Machine in search of VP drops when you could dive right back into the next battle? Tapping that button until you get a 1500 VP drop seems to me like a losing proposition, given the drop rate. If that is the case, then any P2W aspect of Skirmish events (beyond buying chron packages or pouring dil into voyage recalls) would be minimized.
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What I see is dilithium.
I will be be damned if I have to ask someone for permission to compete in an event and stand a chance. That is wrong on so many levels.
Indeed. I'm sure there is nuance. There's ways to minimize financial cost. But surely after the second one, stockpiled resources are gone. Dilithium is necessary. How that is optimized is certainly an interesting thought experiment.
I find it interesting that @Rowden said something about top players proving themselves by beating someone else who is at the top of their game. Then @SSR Barkley says that the game can be more about relationships. These are interesting thoughts to me. Can they both be true at the same time?
I would think you would need to be squad leader with a strong squad helping you with points for maximum faction event rank. So you would need relationships to some extent.
“The schedule of events will be:
- August 13: Skirmish Event - Cultural Property (@ForTheMany or @Paladin 27 , usually)
- August 20: Faction Event - Plateau of Tomorrow (@MECHalobe )
- August 27: Galaxy Event - Whistles and Canaries (@Stellar Ice has won a few of these) (as has @Banjo1012 !)
- September 3 : Hybrid Event Galaxy/Skirmish - Restoration
(FtM & Paladin again, and including @Bylo Band here now).
I count 6.
Let’s say that Week 3 is up for grabs. Add 100.
Let’s say that Week 4 is up for grabs. Add 100.
So, and please feel free to correct me if you think my math is wrong, but that’s a pool of 200+ players, fighting for rank. And some of us will never win, because we do not spend.
I made my peace with this aspect of the game years ago, but I understand the frustration that new players might feel.
I just wish that older players (including myself) showed more respect to the newer ones, who actually keep this game going. 🖖
I'm just gonna reply to the 'enemy of the people comment down' and really point out the extreme double standard MECHAlobe is held to compared with Torsten. MECH went to bed Thursday night with a marginal 200K VP lead, and then woke up to find himself at a 2M VP deficit. You found 1.5M in 3 hrs disdainful in some way, how about the 2.2M VP Torsten put on, which was after his initial 2M VP dil burn he started the event with. As you mentioned, you don't play at the top of faction events often and maybe don't understand all the strategy involved but Torsten strategy of starting the event this way was a deliberate attempt to engage MECHAlobe in an early bidding war. What's more Torsten was not squad lead, and no-one else in his squad was playing hard enough to be involved, so he was happy to take on MECHAlobe and myself with no backup (I personally think this was a critical error 2 v 1 doesn't usually end well). MECHAlobe accepted the invitation and moved to a 1M VP lead. In the screenshots you have suggested he responded to a small change in score from Torsten, but this is complete nonsense, he was likely just taking a break. Torsten then chose not to respond, likely holding a multi-million VP stash of dil to attack the end of the event if MECHAlobe was within striking distance. MECHAlobe then moved to a number he though would be enough to defend such an assault on Sunday or Monday. People think 1M VP is a large lead, it isn't. There are strategies were you can put on 1M VP in under 20 mins. This is why you see players build such large leads.
So to me they were both using very similar methods to obtain VP quickly. This was initiated by Torsten, with MECHAlobe countering. MECHAlobe won the event because he went out of range of a final assault by Torsten.
I find it interesting in all this you only saw MECHAlobe spending.... MECHAlobe responding to other players... how quickly MECHAlobe put on points. And you didn't see Torsten, you didn't see how much support they were receiving from their squads/fleets and you didn't see Rowden who is sitting right there in all your screenshots. You missed the trump card because you did not understand what is actually going on.
Yes they can be. You ideally just need to agree rules of engagement in advance. However, I've seen some explosive falling outs too.
In response to your thought experiment it would be great if you suggest a solution to dilemma MECHAlobe found himself. His opponent dil burned to 4M VP after 1 day, a 2.2M VP lead over you. Your opponent should be capable of adding 3-4M VP over next three days. What is the most cost effective counter strategy where you still win? Surrender is not a solution.
While that may help, my experience is that it does not matter. I can do just as well from the share boost as I can by having an extra event crew to staff another shuttle.
I also think there is also a big difference between talking with your squadron about tactics and asking a gatekeeper if you're allowed to win an event.
And now that I think about it, does that affect TP's bottom line? Do they make enough money from the gatekeeper to justify him taking a week off to let someone else win instead of natural competition?
Do you not understand the argument here, or are you deliberately playing obstructionist to deflect attention from something else?
I responded to what you wrote.
From Day 2, players complained about P2W.
From Day 3 until today, the company has done nothing to address these concerns.
Not a damn thing.
After 4+ years, I would expect a company to have it’s *stuff* together and be mindful of its playerbase. Did y’all miss some memos?
I am hurt that my name wasn’t your galaxy example.
Paladin is gonna be spending a LOT of chronitons according to this haha
Welcome back (Kotter), Enterprise Was Best! I missed you, and I will amend my earlier post. 🖖
EDIT: I fixed it. Hope you & yours are well.
Hope I didn’t wake the bear! I was the second place guy to his 13 million by Sunday morning.
Thank you my good friend. I hope you and yours are well as well
No, you didn't. You picked apart a specific example I cited as evidence of the actual issue here, all while dancing around the subject. So let me be clear, of MECHAlobe's 9 Faction wins from 2020...
#1, no problem
#2, no problem
#3, no problem
#4, no problem
#5, no problem
#6, no problem
#7, no problem
#8, no problem
#9, big problem
This last weekend it was plain for all to see that MECHAlobe has sent the message to everyone that nobody else is "allowed" to win a Faction event. That's it, that is the ENTIRE point. This weekend the message was sent: challenge MECHAlobe, and be crushed.
"As you mentioned, you don't play at the top of faction events often and maybe don't understand all the strategy involved"...I never said anything of the sort. I've been top 10 in a Faction event before, and I'm sitting on enough resources that I've been buying and amassing for months that I could threaten the top of any Faction event of my choosing.
And that is the point here, this was the weekend that it all went too far. This was the weekend where the message was sent that no lead will ever be safe. I don't give a damn about any agreements the top players have made among themselves about who is allowed to win any particular event, but when it is on full display that one player will literally spend any amount of money to win every Faction event and thus prevent literally everyone else from ever having a chance for no reason other than to be a gatekeeper, that is the kind of action that threatens the community.
How many wins will be enough? Is he planning to stop at 10? 15? 20? Who knows, and that is the point. Why should other players bother trying anymore, or buy boost packs anymore, or buy the campaigns anymore (campaigns have tons of goodies for Faction events) when they cannot win? I've seen the argument that it has always been like this and to a large degree I agree with that, but in the past a MUCH better job was done by the top players to rotate the wins or whatever the agreements were to not completely crush all hope form the rest of us. That kept the rest of us trying, because we had hope that one day we could work hard, save up enough resources, acquire enough dilithium, to make a once-in-a-lifetime run one weekend and try for a win that felt achievable.
That illusion has been shattered this weekend, and THAT is the point. You can blindly defend MECHAlobe all you want, but I'm telling you that this weekend real damage was done.
Time for y’all to reėvauluate your metrics, or your company will stand a fair chance of losing some long-time players, including me. Maybe my $14/month does not matter to you, but multiply that by 100, or 1000, and then you are looking at a person’s wages. Don’t do that.
I know y’all can do better. I have seen you do better. Step up, WRG.
1) Winning events - Agreed, Faction events are the most susceptible to P2W. With Galaxy events the most difficult (ironic how so many people on the forums dislike it). Skirmishes are somewhere in between though they are by far the most 'valuable' event due to its ability to generate honor and also the chron 'subsidy'. I have won one event as I just wanted to complete the achievement. It really comes down to being very selective and strategic with it. Here are some suggestions if you wanna win without P2W
For me, this was the Falcon Falls 2 a flashback event which was a Faction/Galaxy event. I had been saving shuttle tokens and boosts for this event and had 110k Chrons in the bank (plus quite a few bonus crew for the faction portion). I also had Mintaken Riker, Ambassador Spock and Commander Sela immortalized and had Loken 1/5 FE. The reward card was Galaxy Gallivanting Vash which was a decent card but definitely wasn't super sought after and was the first 5* card going into the Q mega with the first event being Galaxy.
I basically planned nothing for the entire weekend apart from playing the game and was working on the assumption of 6 hours sleep during the Galaxy event. The strategy was to keep it tight in the faction section of the event (within 1-200k VP) and try to make that back in the Galaxy event. Ultimately, I won with just a few thousand VP. So it was still tight.
2) Definitely agree with @~peregrine~ and I think this has been brought up loads and is overly obvious... There's so much gap between 1500th and 25th that there's almost no point in doing anything better than 1500 unless you are wanting to win it. Even back to the time when they expanded the 5* card reward from 1000 to 1500th place, I think it would have been better to deploy the 500 extra cards to the top 500 players. So there's actually some point in doing better then 1500 and out (or 1000 and out back then). The argument that this helps newer players also makes little sense to me. Newer players will just end up with a ton more 1/5 which just clog up their crew spots. I believe this might ironically make it harder for newer players to properly crew their roster as this becomes a quantity vs quality issue
For there to be an achievement that most players will never be able to claim is indicative of poor game design, in my book. That’s why I keep asking the company to do better.
I know that the company employs many creative and intelligent people. I do not want to cast aspersions, but the game needs an overhaul, y’all. 🖖
Just in response to this particular point, I've heard an increasing number of people say that they don't bother competing and don't bother saving dil to make a Faction run anymore because of the pseudo-monopoly. I've even heard more than one person say recently that [paraphrasing] their retirement is coming up sooner than they thought because the bucket list goal of winning an event is out of reach. That's probably music to the ears of those few players who don't want the competition, but it seems to me be a negative to more players and the game overall.
As far as if it's more profitable for TP? Not sure if they can precisely extrapolate that, but it does remind me of voyage refreshes and how many dips and drabs of dil have been left on the table by a multitude of players who would do the occasional revive, but don't because tokens are blocking that option. Maybe both of those scenarios are better income for TP, at least in the short term. I'd be surprised if it's best for "the health of the game", though.
DB made Factions an event type that you can pay to win. Rather than badgering players to change how they play (if it's within the game's rule set), I'd much rather see WRG change the way events operate to encourage more competition. I imagine that would be difficult to do without sacrificing income.
On the other hand, I don't think that the current situation is actually MECHAlobe's or other players' fault. If what he likes the most is winning faction events and he's willing to spend any sum of money to reach that goal, then him stepping back doesn't make much sense and doesn't give anyone else's win much value.
I agree with Automaton that this is an issue with the way events (and the game itself) are designed.
Thanks for the input. My fleet has a few whales. One cut back because of COVID-related income loss. One picked a different event type to win - this may have cost TP some money - and one hasn't gone for an event win (I haven't asked why). I wasn't aware how other big spenders may have felt. (Sorry if I sleighted any whales in my fleet by not mentioning them.)
Let me give you another take on your top 25 theory. I think I'm up to five top 25 finishes now (two full galaxies and three full factions), with my first being for Torpedo McCoy in the Enterprise mega event.
It is possible that fleets with players who finish in the top 25 attract players who aspire to make the top 25. Then said fleet helps those players achieve that goal. When those captains make it to the top of the leaderboard, it may appear that the fleet is trying to dominate the leaderboard, so your perception is understandable. Just this past weekend, I helped a fleet member set a new personal record and a good friend from another fleet finish in the top 15. It's not that these top fleets "decide" who gets to be in the top 25. They just help their own get there if it happens to be a goal for their recruits.
As to Bylo coming off badly... That's an odd take. Bylo saw a potential problem. He laid out the cause as he saw it. "Enemy of the people" is a bit strong, imo, but the rest seems pretty solid. There is a concern about one type of event having a gatekeeper and what that might say about the health of the game. It's a legitimate question to ask. And seeing as how Bylo is not in one of these "elite fleets" but has made the top 25 multiple times, is he not an ideal player to weigh in on the issue?
I can't believe you said such a thing!!!!!
🖖🖖🏻🖖🏼🖖🏽🖖🏾🖖🏿
🤳🤳🏻🤳🏼🤳🏽🤳🏿🤳🏾
As I stated previously, 4 other players have won faction events in the timeframe you referenced. One without spending any money. Whether or not you are capable of winning a faction event is down to you. But it's certainly not more difficult that winning any other event type.
When you play skirmish or galaxy events for the win you will come up against players who need 0-3 hours sleep a night. I have previously played 2 opponents who didn't take a break over a 96 hr period, and one that didn't take a break over the 48 hr skirmish phase (hybrid event). And players also do this at the start of galaxy events. I would think this time commitment, combined with extreme sleep deprivation for over 96 hours (this is an extreme health risk, there are many news articles where gamers have permanently damaged their health or died partaking in this kind of activity) would be a much greater gate-keeper to winning than money is to faction events, since you can win faction events without spending but you cannot win a skirmish without extreme sleep deprivation over 4 days.
I’ll jump in and say that I like how Faction events are generally structured - not having to be huddled around my phone for a few hours at a crack, furiously tapping away resources to get stars for a crew that will instantly go into the freezer for another 1-12 months, is nice. I’m willing to do that in a Skirmish because there’s the honor that piles up, but I can also watch TV while I do a Skirmish and be able to pay attention to it, which is not the case for a Skirmish
Faction events have a bit more strategy to them and require a few minutes of input every few hours. If the dilithium recall functionality were to be disabled during the event, the P2W aspect would be nerfed pretty heavily. It wouldn’t go away entirely thanks to shuttle tokens, and the need for a huge number of crew is going to be easier to fulfill for whales than for other people, but I would be quite curious to see what a Faction event would look like without dilithium recalls.
2) Definitely agree with @~peregrine~ and I think this has been brought up loads and is overly obvious... There's so much gap between 1500th and 25th that there's almost no point in doing anything better than 1500 unless you are wanting to win it. Even back to the time when they expanded the 5* card reward from 1000 to 1500th place, I think it would have been better to deploy the 500 extra cards to the top 500 players. So there's actually some point in doing better then 1500 and out (or 1000 and out back then). The argument that this helps newer players also makes little sense to me. Newer players will just end up with a ton more 1/5 which just clog up their crew spots. I believe this might ironically make it harder for newer players to properly crew their roster as this becomes a quantity vs quality issue[/quote]
Agreed 100% - expanding the top 1500 was nice but it would have been equally good to smooth out the rewards between 5th or 25th and 1000th place. Currently, the only reason to end up between 25th and 1500th is to make sure you don’t slip out of the top 1500 at the end of the event because of how tightly clustered the ranks get.
@Rowden - since I don’t want to scroll back through all the posts to find the quote, I have one question that maybe someone else would need to answer about those Skirmish event bonus rewards...with the overall time input reduction through the 2x/3x speed-up buttons, does it make sense any longer to play the Bonus Rewards Slot Machine in search of VP drops when you could dive right back into the next battle? Tapping that button until you get a 1500 VP drop seems to me like a losing proposition, given the drop rate. If that is the case, then any P2W aspect of Skirmish events (beyond buying chron packages or pouring dil into voyage recalls) would be minimized.