This could flip if players don't scan and get enough polestars. We started the market with a 6-month stockpile. As the good ones get used and are no longer on the market, the prices will go up. It could reach a point where it's no longer cost effective to just use the market.
One one hand, enough folks may have enough of a backlog that a slow trickle of incoming polestars is sufficient to keep the market balanced. Especially if Portal updates only occur 1-2 a year.
If that's not the case, yeah, we'll see key polestar values take a sharp jump. Although constellation sales may act as a moderating force, especially if folks who have all the polestars they want stop opening up constellations.
Six degrees in Inter-species Veterinary Medicine. Treating all manner of critters, from Tribbles to Humans.
I wish to act as my own broker. I dont need others to chose how i should spend or buy.
As far as secondary accounts, ISM, manipulation, its already happening. The people with the most ISM are running the market as it is now. And still there is the 99 limit. Better than 250 but who is to say the same person isn't placing 3 orders for 75 of the exact same item?. There will be manipulation.
Im sure there is no way to stop that from happening.
Imo the market would be better if it was a true “free” trade center. Many opinions or forms of commerce exist. In this case easily put there comparison ferengi commerce vs federation commerce. I am not a big fan of non-optioned commerce. In RL i may chose to spend a bit more or less $$ for the same product from a different store based on service, warranty and so on. Thats just my personal opinion. 🖖🏻
I think choosing who to buy from/selling from may be too much, but maybe, just MAYBE, it could be a good idea to limit your orders/listings to your fleet, so there you have some control on who you are dealing with, and it gives you something to do with fleets, something that I think we are in dire need.
Imagine that it would be like the starbase working as a commerce hub, which makes some sense.
I wish to act as my own broker. I dont need others to chose how i should spend or buy.
As far as secondary accounts, ISM, manipulation, its already happening. The people with the most ISM are running the market as it is now. And still there is the 99 limit. Better than 250 but who is to say the same person isn't placing 3 orders for 75 of the exact same item?. There will be manipulation.
Im sure there is no way to stop that from happening.
Imo the market would be better if it was a true “free” trade center. Many opinions or forms of commerce exist. In this case easily put there comparison ferengi commerce vs federation commerce. I am not a big fan of non-optioned commerce. In RL i may chose to spend a bit more or less $$ for the same product from a different store based on service, warranty and so on. Thats just my personal opinion. 🖖🏻
There is a reason WRG is using a currency like ism that has limited affect in the game. They have also said that they will be monitoring the market to see how it goes. If changes are needed to stop problems they will address it.
I think choosing who to buy from/selling from may be too much, but maybe, just MAYBE, it could be a good idea to limit your orders/listings to your fleet, so there you have some control on who you are dealing with, and it gives you something to do with fleets, something that I think we are in dire need.
Imagine that it would be like the starbase working as a commerce hub, which makes some sense.
While I tend to like any idea that aims at making fleets more relevant, with the way they work now I feel like this one would create more imbalance and more headaches for those who are admirals and officers. It would make the fleet recruitment and management issues even bigger and increase the imbalance between very few very strong fleets and fleet alliances, the mid-tier ones and the casual ones, while not adressing any of the existing problems (the chat, the lack of management tools, the invite tool...).
I'm a bit surprised of how cheap the polestars (and constellations) go away. Considering the minimum cost of a scan (0 - ?) plus the opening of the constellation of 1000 ISM, I would mark the minimum price at 1.500 ISM. When you take the value of the offer itself - a CERTAIN polestar, which means that the seller already cleared out all of the randomness - it really baffles me that there are offers underneath 5000 ISM.
Additionally it's clearly a sellers market which should drive the prices up.
I'm a bit surprised of how cheap the polestars (and constellations) go away. Considering the minimum cost of a scan (0 - ?) plus the opening of the constellation of 1000 ISM, I would mark the minimum price at 1.500 ISM. When you take the value of the offer itself - a CERTAIN polestar, which means that the seller already cleared out all of the randomness - it really baffles me that there are offers underneath 5000 ISM.
Additionally it's clearly a sellers market which should drive the prices up.
But you don't care about the cost of converting a constellation to a polestar, only the value of a specific polestar. If a lot of people have more civilian polestars that they could use, the price is going to be close to 800, as that's the price you'd get for burning it.
If you have a constellation which has 4x very common polestars, it is probably only worth 300 ISM- you could pay 1000 to open it, but if you're definitely going to be left with something nobody needs, you're just losing 500 ISM (300 vs. 800 -1000).
You don't care about costs? No offense, Sir, but you would be a bad businessman and thrown from the top of the tower on Ferengi Nar
In a sellers market there is always the option to just not sell as long as you don't get the price you are satisfied with. And this price must certainly reflect the value and the costs of the product.
You need to consider all costs and all potential future value.
Lets look at a hypothetical example. A constellation has only Human, Starfleet, and Federation polestars.
Each of those polestars is available in the market for 800 ISM.
If you have the constellation it costs 1000 to convert it to something that is worth 800 ISM. That's a loss of 200 ISM.
Instead you can dematerialize the constellation and earn 300 ISM.
If there is a 4th polestar possible, it would need to go for at least 2,800. Otherwise the expected value of opening the constellation is under 1,300 are you are better off dematerializing the constellation and buying the polestar.
This does get more complicated when there are other sources of that polestar. Those other sources may keep the value of the polestar under 2,800.
Short story, I'm sure there are market inefficiencies. But the UI in the game, wide spreads, lack of historical transactions, and lack of liquidity makes finding a lot of them difficult.
I'm a bit surprised of how cheap the polestars (and constellations) go away. Considering the minimum cost of a scan (0 - ?) plus the opening of the constellation of 1000 ISM, I would mark the minimum price at 1.500 ISM. When you take the value of the offer itself - a CERTAIN polestar, which means that the seller already cleared out all of the randomness - it really baffles me that there are offers underneath 5000 ISM.
That's very sound reasoning. Two things which may explain why it didn't work this way:
First, the massive surplus of polestars drove prices down. Especially since a polestar you're not interested in, even if quite rare, is nearly worthless.
Second, the massive surplus of ISM meant folks weren't driven to make a lot more through sales. Especially since ISM, while finite, is ultimately free.
So even if you end up spending a few thousand ISM to gain a polestar you don't want, selling it as a "loss" isn't a big deal.
Six degrees in Inter-species Veterinary Medicine. Treating all manner of critters, from Tribbles to Humans.
I'm a bit surprised of how cheap the polestars (and constellations) go away. Considering the minimum cost of a scan (0 - ?) plus the opening of the constellation of 1000 ISM, I would mark the minimum price at 1.500 ISM. When you take the value of the offer itself - a CERTAIN polestar, which means that the seller already cleared out all of the randomness - it really baffles me that there are offers underneath 5000 ISM.
That's very sound reasoning. Two things which may explain why it didn't work this way:
First, the massive surplus of polestars drove prices down. Especially since a polestar you're not interested in, even if quite rare, is nearly worthless.
Second, the massive surplus of ISM meant folks weren't driven to make a lot more through sales. Especially since ISM, while finite, is ultimately free.
So even if you end up spending a few thousand ISM to gain a polestar you don't want, selling it as a "loss" isn't a big deal.
Second, the massive surplus of ISM meant folks weren't driven to make a lot more through sales. Especially since ISM, while finite, is ultimately free.
So even if you end up spending a few thousand ISM to gain a polestar you don't want, selling it as a "loss" isn't a big deal.
Throwback to where people were worried that they won't get enough ISM and fleets were abandoned because they wouldn't get all of the daily ISM rewards...
Lots of ideas in the thread which is why it is here. It is titled “feedback”.
Members of Starbases selling to each other only?? Maybe, but no names of sellers or purchasers are listed. Im sure a way can be found to manipulate or attempt to manipulate everything.
Simply controlling what the value of your items wanted or not wanted would make for a more diverse interesting pool of items, drive the market in different directions daily instead of stale. After the initial rush it went stale, now with portal update there will be a purchase/sell frenzy then it will go stale again for a bit. If we could sell to the “specific offer chosen” instead of highest bid imo it would create a bit more interest on a regular basis. Prices could change daily? The market would fluctuate and stabilize randomly every day.
Such as upcoming event crew??? If in portal, those retrieval items would increase prior to events. Weekly intrigue?
Lots of ideas and feedback in here. The addition is new, everything gets a bit of an adjustment from stage of concept🧐 to practical use. Lets see what happens. ????😄🖖🏻
How about this for fleets? Discounts. Listings and orders are still global and anonymous, but you get a discount or bonus when the trade is among fleet members (so a listing that everyone sees at 1000 ISM its listed for you at 995 if the seller is a fleet member)
Just coming off the Timelines Talks for the week - the idea of a Gauntlet Polestar is a very cool idea.
That also let to me having the idea for way to buy a Citation with ISM or some combination in the Celestial Marketplace, for those of use who don't use crew retrieval.
I'd be interested to know how many people don't use Crew Retrieval.
I'd like to, but I am perpetually short of credits due to replications and leveling.
Try not replicating any item above Rare. Legendary and Super Rare items are tempting to save chrons, but they will drain your credits reserve in a blink. I started using the replicator carefully with smaller Rare and below components and I have a surplus now.
I'd be interested to know how many people don't use Crew Retrieval.
I'd like to, but I am perpetually short of credits due to replications and leveling.
Try not replicating any item above Rare. Legendary and Super Rare items are tempting to save chrons, but they will drain your credits reserve in a blink. I started using the replicator carefully with smaller Rare and below components and I have a surplus now.
I'd be interested to know how many people don't use Crew Retrieval.
I have used it once when it first came out. I have a good number of packs to open and don't see the point of retrieving until my packs are gone.
The point would be it's a free 5* every 19 days. The longer you wait the more crew you are not getting for free. If I were you I would either open all your packs now and then start using retrieval, or use retrieval even with your pending packs.
I'd be interested to know how many people don't use Crew Retrieval.
I have used it once when it first came out. I have a good number of packs to open and don't see the point of retrieving until my packs are gone.
The point would be it's a free 5* every 19 days. The longer you wait the more crew you are not getting for free. If I were you I would either open all your packs now and then start using retrieval, or use retrieval even with your pending packs.
There is no point in rushing until the next portal update. The player pool in retrieval will not change. I was holding on to the packs until this week's update. I hate to waste resources on someone I may get in a pack. It is especially painful to get a begold and all the characters are FF.
I'd be interested to know how many people don't use Crew Retrieval.
I have used it once when it first came out. I have a good number of packs to open and don't see the point of retrieving until my packs are gone.
The point would be it's a free 5* every 19 days. The longer you wait the more crew you are not getting for free. If I were you I would either open all your packs now and then start using retrieval, or use retrieval even with your pending packs.
There is no point in rushing until the next portal update. The player pool in retrieval will not change. I was holding on to the packs until this week's update. I hate to waste resources on someone I may get in a pack. It is especially painful to get a begold and all the characters are FF.
The point is you can get a free 5* every 19 days. Let's say the next portal update is in 190 days, that's 10 5* you could have gotten. Sure you still have the polestars, but the limiting resource is quantum and that is just gone. There is no way to get that quantum that you lost by not accruing. So that's 10 5* you lost out on. Sure you might get one or two in a future begold, but those still might not be FF. And if you get multiple copies of a character then the odds of a card you got in retrieval showing up in a begold is even lower.
You will always have a chance to have (almost) any character in some other ways, so pulls, citations, crew retrieval, claiming in game mails... anything could go to "waste" if you factor that. At some point, you need to factor how much you value having a card now, how much valuable is all the time you are going to enjoy it from now to the moment that you get it from some other source. Otherwise, you will always will be saving for the future, until there is no more future (yes, the game won't last forever, at some point they will announce is closing, and they will probably give away everything so you will enjoy it to the max in the last 30 days or something)
The only reason I could see for NOT using the feature is crew slots. But even then you must be able to add stars to something, Sulu's Husband? Every time you let your quantum hit 1000, it stops gaining - a real waste.
I don't have tons of credits to sitting around. I am slowly opening packs and bumping some crew up to the 90 and 100 level. Sometimes your need to replicate some items which require credits.
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Careful - that may earn you a ban for not playing it the way they intended. 😂
If that's not the case, yeah, we'll see key polestar values take a sharp jump. Although constellation sales may act as a moderating force, especially if folks who have all the polestars they want stop opening up constellations.
Starport
As far as secondary accounts, ISM, manipulation, its already happening. The people with the most ISM are running the market as it is now. And still there is the 99 limit. Better than 250 but who is to say the same person isn't placing 3 orders for 75 of the exact same item?. There will be manipulation.
Im sure there is no way to stop that from happening.
Imo the market would be better if it was a true “free” trade center. Many opinions or forms of commerce exist. In this case easily put there comparison ferengi commerce vs federation commerce. I am not a big fan of non-optioned commerce. In RL i may chose to spend a bit more or less $$ for the same product from a different store based on service, warranty and so on. Thats just my personal opinion. 🖖🏻
Imagine that it would be like the starbase working as a commerce hub, which makes some sense.
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Captain Zombie's Combo chain calculator
There is a reason WRG is using a currency like ism that has limited affect in the game. They have also said that they will be monitoring the market to see how it goes. If changes are needed to stop problems they will address it.
While I tend to like any idea that aims at making fleets more relevant, with the way they work now I feel like this one would create more imbalance and more headaches for those who are admirals and officers. It would make the fleet recruitment and management issues even bigger and increase the imbalance between very few very strong fleets and fleet alliances, the mid-tier ones and the casual ones, while not adressing any of the existing problems (the chat, the lack of management tools, the invite tool...).
Additionally it's clearly a sellers market which should drive the prices up.
But you don't care about the cost of converting a constellation to a polestar, only the value of a specific polestar. If a lot of people have more civilian polestars that they could use, the price is going to be close to 800, as that's the price you'd get for burning it.
If you have a constellation which has 4x very common polestars, it is probably only worth 300 ISM- you could pay 1000 to open it, but if you're definitely going to be left with something nobody needs, you're just losing 500 ISM (300 vs. 800 -1000).
In a sellers market there is always the option to just not sell as long as you don't get the price you are satisfied with. And this price must certainly reflect the value and the costs of the product.
Lets look at a hypothetical example. A constellation has only Human, Starfleet, and Federation polestars.
Each of those polestars is available in the market for 800 ISM.
If you have the constellation it costs 1000 to convert it to something that is worth 800 ISM. That's a loss of 200 ISM.
Instead you can dematerialize the constellation and earn 300 ISM.
If there is a 4th polestar possible, it would need to go for at least 2,800. Otherwise the expected value of opening the constellation is under 1,300 are you are better off dematerializing the constellation and buying the polestar.
This does get more complicated when there are other sources of that polestar. Those other sources may keep the value of the polestar under 2,800.
Short story, I'm sure there are market inefficiencies. But the UI in the game, wide spreads, lack of historical transactions, and lack of liquidity makes finding a lot of them difficult.
First, the massive surplus of polestars drove prices down. Especially since a polestar you're not interested in, even if quite rare, is nearly worthless.
Second, the massive surplus of ISM meant folks weren't driven to make a lot more through sales. Especially since ISM, while finite, is ultimately free.
So even if you end up spending a few thousand ISM to gain a polestar you don't want, selling it as a "loss" isn't a big deal.
Starport
Good explanation!
Throwback to where people were worried that they won't get enough ISM and fleets were abandoned because they wouldn't get all of the daily ISM rewards...
Members of Starbases selling to each other only?? Maybe, but no names of sellers or purchasers are listed. Im sure a way can be found to manipulate or attempt to manipulate everything.
Simply controlling what the value of your items wanted or not wanted would make for a more diverse interesting pool of items, drive the market in different directions daily instead of stale. After the initial rush it went stale, now with portal update there will be a purchase/sell frenzy then it will go stale again for a bit. If we could sell to the “specific offer chosen” instead of highest bid imo it would create a bit more interest on a regular basis. Prices could change daily? The market would fluctuate and stabilize randomly every day.
Such as upcoming event crew??? If in portal, those retrieval items would increase prior to events. Weekly intrigue?
Lots of ideas and feedback in here. The addition is new, everything gets a bit of an adjustment from stage of concept🧐 to practical use. Lets see what happens. ????😄🖖🏻
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Captain Zombie's Combo chain calculator
That also let to me having the idea for way to buy a Citation with ISM or some combination in the Celestial Marketplace, for those of use who don't use crew retrieval.
I'd like to, but I am perpetually short of credits due to replications and leveling.
Billions, I reckon.
I'll see myself out...
I approve of your technically correct answer!
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Captain Zombie's Combo chain calculator
What's the fun in that!
I have used it once when it first came out. I have a good number of packs to open and don't see the point of retrieving until my packs are gone.
The point would be it's a free 5* every 19 days. The longer you wait the more crew you are not getting for free. If I were you I would either open all your packs now and then start using retrieval, or use retrieval even with your pending packs.
There is no point in rushing until the next portal update. The player pool in retrieval will not change. I was holding on to the packs until this week's update. I hate to waste resources on someone I may get in a pack. It is especially painful to get a begold and all the characters are FF.
The point is you can get a free 5* every 19 days. Let's say the next portal update is in 190 days, that's 10 5* you could have gotten. Sure you still have the polestars, but the limiting resource is quantum and that is just gone. There is no way to get that quantum that you lost by not accruing. So that's 10 5* you lost out on. Sure you might get one or two in a future begold, but those still might not be FF. And if you get multiple copies of a character then the odds of a card you got in retrieval showing up in a begold is even lower.
Public profile
Captain Zombie's Combo chain calculator