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Midweek Event Unleashed - feedback thread

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    WaldoMagWaldoMag ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2022
    AviTrek wrote: »
    I keep reading about leaving spots empty or using worse crew. How can that possibly help?

    The theory is if you leave a skill empty then when that skill comes up other players will target you. You'll lose rank, and then get easier opponents during your turn. Plus if you're missing a skill it means you can stack your crew stronger elsewhere.

    I'm personally not convinced if it helps or not. But that's the theory at least. And it seems to be working for some players.

    The actual point of this is to allow other players to be able to have an easy win in gauntlet.

    But I do not think my suggestion of leaving one skill open is enough to help.
    It may take leaving two skills open. But in that case it might end up being the same two left open by others which would not help.
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    Captain SMRCaptain SMR ✭✭✭
    edited May 2022
    I think 45 Gauntlet wins is too high. I am a solid player, but have never been wild about G. I still don’t have a Caretaker after 12,000+ rounds. I am at a huge disadvantage on 1/3 of the pulls without the killer ENG card. New players without all of the G specifics cards will likely not finish. There needs to be a way to get G characters outside of G. Otherwise newer players will never catch up.

    Please don’t take this as a request for help. I am able to refresh enough to make 45 each time. But I have all the other G specific cards except Care and the new one. It is just my opinion to help newer players.
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    HagbardHagbard ✭✭
    Here's my 2 cents for what it's worth. I was able to compete the first two OE's by spending in excess of 3000 merits and the first one some dil. I had a poor draw on the last one leaving me with a weak uncompetative team. I thought that if I waited to join, I might get a better draw but the same traits were locked in for the duration of the event. I also tried to run 2 weak crew but it didn't work for me.

    Here's my analysis and recommendations.

    1. 45 Wins is unachievable for most players for all the above mentioned reasons. Make this 45 plays and people will play more. In fact the entire OE should be achievable by the majority of players.

    2. The 48hr duration is far to long to get a better selection for your crew. Give weaker teams a chance to get in. The gauntlet refrew should be reduced to 4 or 8 hr with a new trait set.

    3. Make sure the Gauntlet traits are fair to all players. The first time, the gauntlet was stacked with 65% and 45% crew that was only available to the deep of pocket. It was quite obvious that the first game was rigged.

    4. I found out that the weak crew approach doesn't work because out of the 200 players in it, there are only a few actually playing. Once you win a few times, you are stuck with a wall of nasties and never lose your accumulated trophies to get a fair matchup.

    5. And the bad beats only make it worse!!!
  • Options
    IvanstoneIvanstone ✭✭✭✭✭
    I still don’t have a Caretaker after 12,000+ rounds. I am at a huge disadvantage on 1/3 of the pulls without the killer ENG card. New players without all of the G specifics cards will likely not finish.

    While I do think the Gauntlet problem is overblown, the game still has a severe lack of high ENG proficiency crew. How bad is the problem? The second best ENG crew is Red Angel. There are 15 SCI crew who have better proficiencies. Every other skill has at least 10 crew with better proficiencies.

    All other skills have a readily obtainable crew. MED’s best crew has been in the portal for years. The ENG problem is big enough that they should either buff an old crew (ex Cap Scotty or NS Tucker) or give away an appropriate crew (ex Endurance OE, 4* reward crew or Megacrew).
    VIP 13 - 310 Crew Slots - 1055 Immortals
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    WaldoMagWaldoMag ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2022
    I would suggest starting a gauntlet now . So your gauntlet ends tomorrow so you can start a new one tomorrow. But, all you need to do is start an hour before the end of gauntlets today.

    Edit: I have started gauntlets slightly before the end of previous gauntlets. Only to find my gauntlet ending with them. That is why I suggest an hour before.

    Edit: you know I just realized, all you have to do is make sure your gauntlet ends during the mini event in order to get second one started during the event.
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    Sulu's HusbandSulu's Husband ✭✭✭✭✭
    I was hoping double dailies would carry over the doubling into the OE but no such luck. n2sjmp1dou6u.jpeg
    qqy6f1yypjf4.jpeg
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    AviTrekAviTrek ✭✭✭✭✭
    Another Objective Event, another 65% gauntlet. As much as I've defended these, it's really getting to the point where this feels like it's intentionally making it as annoying as possible.
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    WebberoniWebberoni ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2022
    I have tracked the past two midweek events and find my shuttles to be failing way more than usual, and far more than they should be based on success rates. I only had 5/8 shuttles succeed so far, despite all of them being between 91-94%. The only days I've had that many fails while running my standard 2 waves for daily requirements have been the days when the midweek events have been active.

    I like a challenge, but the RNG involved in the shuttles, arena battles (thanks for the tanking), and gauntlet are among the most inconsistent and frustrating in the entire game. Cramming all of them into the same midweek event takes all the fun and strategizing out of the game.
  • Options
    W.W. CarlisleW.W. Carlisle ✭✭✭✭✭
    I had 11/12 succeed from my Monday build up. The four today succeeded. I should finish it today easily. 6/45 for Gauntlet so far. I should have another chance shortly.
    W.W. CarlislePlayed since January 20, 2019Captain Level- 99 (May 9, 2022)VIP 14Crew Quarters: 485/485Most recent/Lowest- Anbo-jyutsu Kyle Riker (1/5* Lvl 30) 5/29/23Immortalized x-866 5* x184, 4* x 490, 3* x91, 2* x62, and 1* x27Most recent Immortal - Tearful Janeway 4* 5/25/23Current non-event project- Improving my Science base skill. Retrieval Project- Mestral 1/5*
  • Options
    PeetsPeets ✭✭✭✭
    First run -> 10 wins. First run is always easy to get many wins. Aim is go for lower trophies so you get easy targets. (7 merit refresh)
    Second run -> I aim between 4-6 wins. I got lucky this time. Got 6 wins. (3 merit refresh)
    Third run -> 4-6 wins. I got 7 wins. Very lucky. (2 merit refresh)

    My Balok is doing great. Each run 3 wins.

    One more run today and atm at 23 wins.
    Tomorrow also four runs. So in the next 5 runs I need max 4 wins and two with 5 wins.
    If you can do 5 runs a day, it will be much easier.

    Gauntlet: Crafty - Interrogator - Undercover operative - Command
    Crew:
    Balok : All command covered
    Red Angel:
    Bem
    Caretaker
    Barry Waddle

    I aim for diversity, I never go all in for the same skill.
    How I do it: First two runs, aim for as low trophies as you can.
    When you sign up, wait two hours before you start.
    The other runs, I try to pick the easiest target with lowest trophy.
    Second day, I try to go for highest trophy to get top 10.
    I am lucky that I can do my last run between 0-2 hours ending.

    My favorite targets are one skills.
    Example:
    Skill 1: 200 - 300
    Skill 2: 150 - 200
    It will easy win against one skill: 300 - 500 (unless it has much higher crit then yours)
    Never do mirror battle. (Unless he has more then 200 points max proficiency lower)
    Always check min & max to pick targets, make sure they are low enough to win. At least 20%.
    With higher numbers, even go to 25%.
    One skill 250 - 400 - 5%, you can easily beat it with 2 skills 100-150 - 25%

    If you have time enough, do the count. Max prof - min prof x3 for each skill = total score
    Your score higher for at least 15-20%? You mostly win.

    When one of your crew has a win. I often try my luck for a second attack with less chance if I don't find a easy target. If I win, cheer. If not, I have spared a merit refresh.
  • Options
    ArnieArnie ✭✭✭✭
    Peets wrote: »
    First run -> 10 wins. First run is always easy to get many wins. Aim is go for lower trophies so you get easy targets. (7 merit refresh)
    Second run -> I aim between 4-6 wins. I got lucky this time. Got 6 wins. (3 merit refresh)
    Third run -> 4-6 wins. I got 7 wins. Very lucky. (2 merit refresh)

    My Balok is doing great. Each run 3 wins.

    One more run today and atm at 23 wins.
    Tomorrow also four runs. So in the next 5 runs I need max 4 wins and two with 5 wins.
    If you can do 5 runs a day, it will be much easier.

    Gauntlet: Crafty - Interrogator - Undercover operative - Command
    Crew:
    Balok : All command covered
    Red Angel:
    Bem
    Caretaker
    Barry Waddle

    I aim for diversity, I never go all in for the same skill.
    How I do it: First two runs, aim for as low trophies as you can.
    When you sign up, wait two hours before you start.
    The other runs, I try to pick the easiest target with lowest trophy.
    Second day, I try to go for highest trophy to get top 10.
    I am lucky that I can do my last run between 0-2 hours ending.

    My favorite targets are one skills.
    Example:
    Skill 1: 200 - 300
    Skill 2: 150 - 200
    It will easy win against one skill: 300 - 500 (unless it has much higher crit then yours)
    Never do mirror battle. (Unless he has more then 200 points max proficiency lower)
    Always check min & max to pick targets, make sure they are low enough to win. At least 20%.
    With higher numbers, even go to 25%.
    One skill 250 - 400 - 5%, you can easily beat it with 2 skills 100-150 - 25%

    If you have time enough, do the count. Max prof - min prof x3 for each skill = total score
    Your score higher for at least 15-20%? You mostly win.

    When one of your crew has a win. I often try my luck for a second attack with less chance if I don't find a easy target. If I win, cheer. If not, I have spared a merit refresh.

    I also aim for low trophies. It's tough when you have a 48 hour window covered by a single gauntlet though, as you can't have 2 bites at the initial climbing the ranks.

    Gauntlets like this one, I really feel for anyone without Balok. I actually kept my second copy I won as a dupe, because he's so useful in these circumstances.
  • Options
    AviTrekAviTrek ✭✭✭✭✭
    Arnie wrote: »
    Peets wrote: »
    First run -> 10 wins. First run is always easy to get many wins. Aim is go for lower trophies so you get easy targets. (7 merit refresh)
    Second run -> I aim between 4-6 wins. I got lucky this time. Got 6 wins. (3 merit refresh)
    Third run -> 4-6 wins. I got 7 wins. Very lucky. (2 merit refresh)

    My Balok is doing great. Each run 3 wins.

    One more run today and atm at 23 wins.
    Tomorrow also four runs. So in the next 5 runs I need max 4 wins and two with 5 wins.
    If you can do 5 runs a day, it will be much easier.

    Gauntlet: Crafty - Interrogator - Undercover operative - Command
    Crew:
    Balok : All command covered
    Red Angel:
    Bem
    Caretaker
    Barry Waddle

    I aim for diversity, I never go all in for the same skill.
    How I do it: First two runs, aim for as low trophies as you can.
    When you sign up, wait two hours before you start.
    The other runs, I try to pick the easiest target with lowest trophy.
    Second day, I try to go for highest trophy to get top 10.
    I am lucky that I can do my last run between 0-2 hours ending.

    My favorite targets are one skills.
    Example:
    Skill 1: 200 - 300
    Skill 2: 150 - 200
    It will easy win against one skill: 300 - 500 (unless it has much higher crit then yours)
    Never do mirror battle. (Unless he has more then 200 points max proficiency lower)
    Always check min & max to pick targets, make sure they are low enough to win. At least 20%.
    With higher numbers, even go to 25%.
    One skill 250 - 400 - 5%, you can easily beat it with 2 skills 100-150 - 25%

    If you have time enough, do the count. Max prof - min prof x3 for each skill = total score
    Your score higher for at least 15-20%? You mostly win.

    When one of your crew has a win. I often try my luck for a second attack with less chance if I don't find a easy target. If I win, cheer. If not, I have spared a merit refresh.

    I also aim for low trophies. It's tough when you have a 48 hour window covered by a single gauntlet though, as you can't have 2 bites at the initial climbing the ranks.

    Gauntlets like this one, I really feel for anyone without Balok. I actually kept my second copy I won as a dupe, because he's so useful in these circumstances.

    Yes you do. As long as you are awake at the end of gauntlet, there are 5 hours between the end of the gauntlet and the end of the objective event.
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    ArnieArnie ✭✭✭✭
    AviTrek wrote: »
    Arnie wrote: »
    Peets wrote: »
    First run -> 10 wins. First run is always easy to get many wins. Aim is go for lower trophies so you get easy targets. (7 merit refresh)
    Second run -> I aim between 4-6 wins. I got lucky this time. Got 6 wins. (3 merit refresh)
    Third run -> 4-6 wins. I got 7 wins. Very lucky. (2 merit refresh)

    My Balok is doing great. Each run 3 wins.

    One more run today and atm at 23 wins.
    Tomorrow also four runs. So in the next 5 runs I need max 4 wins and two with 5 wins.
    If you can do 5 runs a day, it will be much easier.

    Gauntlet: Crafty - Interrogator - Undercover operative - Command
    Crew:
    Balok : All command covered
    Red Angel:
    Bem
    Caretaker
    Barry Waddle

    I aim for diversity, I never go all in for the same skill.
    How I do it: First two runs, aim for as low trophies as you can.
    When you sign up, wait two hours before you start.
    The other runs, I try to pick the easiest target with lowest trophy.
    Second day, I try to go for highest trophy to get top 10.
    I am lucky that I can do my last run between 0-2 hours ending.

    My favorite targets are one skills.
    Example:
    Skill 1: 200 - 300
    Skill 2: 150 - 200
    It will easy win against one skill: 300 - 500 (unless it has much higher crit then yours)
    Never do mirror battle. (Unless he has more then 200 points max proficiency lower)
    Always check min & max to pick targets, make sure they are low enough to win. At least 20%.
    With higher numbers, even go to 25%.
    One skill 250 - 400 - 5%, you can easily beat it with 2 skills 100-150 - 25%

    If you have time enough, do the count. Max prof - min prof x3 for each skill = total score
    Your score higher for at least 15-20%? You mostly win.

    When one of your crew has a win. I often try my luck for a second attack with less chance if I don't find a easy target. If I win, cheer. If not, I have spared a merit refresh.

    I also aim for low trophies. It's tough when you have a 48 hour window covered by a single gauntlet though, as you can't have 2 bites at the initial climbing the ranks.

    Gauntlets like this one, I really feel for anyone without Balok. I actually kept my second copy I won as a dupe, because he's so useful in these circumstances.

    Yes you do. As long as you are awake at the end of gauntlet, there are 5 hours between the end of the gauntlet and the end of the objective event.

    That's effectively no for a lot of people in Europe though, myself included.
  • Options
    PeetsPeets ✭✭✭✭
    Arnie wrote: »

    That's effectively no for a lot of people in Europe though, myself included.

    6 - 7 AM for Western Europe is not that bad.
  • Options
    ChaosChildChaosChild ✭✭✭✭✭
    Peets wrote: »
    Arnie wrote: »

    That's effectively no for a lot of people in Europe though, myself included.

    6 - 7 AM for Western Europe is not that bad.

    Asking people to stay awake until 6AM is pretty bad, all things considered.
  • Options
    PeetsPeets ✭✭✭✭
    ChaosChild wrote: »
    Peets wrote: »
    Arnie wrote: »

    That's effectively no for a lot of people in Europe though, myself included.

    6 - 7 AM for Western Europe is not that bad.

    Asking people to stay awake until 6AM is pretty bad, all things considered.

    When you got to work, you have to get up at 6-7AM if your job starts at 8, not?
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    ChaosChildChaosChild ✭✭✭✭✭
    Peets wrote: »
    ChaosChild wrote: »
    Peets wrote: »
    Arnie wrote: »

    That's effectively no for a lot of people in Europe though, myself included.

    6 - 7 AM for Western Europe is not that bad.

    Asking people to stay awake until 6AM is pretty bad, all things considered.

    When you got to work, you have to get up at 6-7AM if your job starts at 8, not?

    The majority of jobs start later than 8. And you're asking people to get up earlier than that, in order to get their gauntlet rounds in before the event ends. And ideally, to do this on less than 4 hours sleep so they can get the previous round in too. With only 5 hours between the end of gauntlet and the end of the event, you've really not got much room for manoeuvre. Still think it sounds reasonable?
  • Options
    W.W. CarlisleW.W. Carlisle ✭✭✭✭✭
    RNG hates me. I'm on Eastern US time and I have less than 15 wins and I played all day. I'm still playing, but I'm having worse luck than last week. I'll be shocked if I get to 35.
    W.W. CarlislePlayed since January 20, 2019Captain Level- 99 (May 9, 2022)VIP 14Crew Quarters: 485/485Most recent/Lowest- Anbo-jyutsu Kyle Riker (1/5* Lvl 30) 5/29/23Immortalized x-866 5* x184, 4* x 490, 3* x91, 2* x62, and 1* x27Most recent Immortal - Tearful Janeway 4* 5/25/23Current non-event project- Improving my Science base skill. Retrieval Project- Mestral 1/5*
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    PeetsPeets ✭✭✭✭
    AviTrek wrote: »
    Peets wrote: »
    ChaosChild wrote: »
    Peets wrote: »
    Arnie wrote: »

    That's effectively no for a lot of people in Europe though, myself included.

    6 - 7 AM for Western Europe is not that bad.

    Asking people to stay awake until 6AM is pretty bad, all things considered.

    When you got to work, you have to get up at 6-7AM if your job starts at 8, not?

    Plenty of jobs start after 8. It's iffy if I'm awake before 7. And a game shouldn't be asking people to change their sleep schedules to play.

    This objective event is great for the western us and Asia. It's ok for the eastern us(the DST hour difference makes it much worse for me). And is terrible for Europe.

    European players have been rightfully complaining about gauntlet times since gauntlet launched. But WRG has avoided doing even the bare minimum to make it fairer.

    The game is not asking it, you made a suggestion that you could an extra run before the event is over.
    First you make a suggestion and then the game is forcing it? I live in Europe and it is not terrible.
    Someone replied it was hard to do for Europeans and I countered the suggestion.
    I play every morning, it makes my day better. I'm more relaxed before I go to work.

    We have the right to counter complainers. There is a thing called equal rights.
    ChaosChild wrote: »
    Peets wrote: »
    ChaosChild wrote: »
    Peets wrote: »
    Arnie wrote: »

    That's effectively no for a lot of people in Europe though, myself included.

    6 - 7 AM for Western Europe is not that bad.

    Asking people to stay awake until 6AM is pretty bad, all things considered.

    When you got to work, you have to get up at 6-7AM if your job starts at 8, not?

    The majority of jobs start later than 8. And you're asking people to get up earlier than that, in order to get their gauntlet rounds in before the event ends. And ideally, to do this on less than 4 hours sleep so they can get the previous round in too. With only 5 hours between the end of gauntlet and the end of the event, you've really not got much room for manoeuvre. Still think it sounds reasonable?

    I'm afraid you don't understand what the suggestion was. Nobody has said less sleep or waking up earlier etc. I don't know many people who can stay awake after 7 AM when they go to work and have kids that need to go to school. Which is majority of the world.

    Let me draw it out for you. How I planned it.
    I work 9 - 5 and regularly do my daughter to school. (8:30 AM - 3:30PM)
    Sleep at 11 PM - 6:30 AM (Nice 7,5 hours)
    Gauntlet:
    Round 1: +- 7:30 AM
    Round 2 : +- 12AM lunch time
    Round 3 : +- 5 PM End work time
    Round 4 : +- 9 PM

    repeat:
    Sleep at 11 PM - 6:30 AM
    ...
    3rd day, instead of taking a shower first I could do a quick gauntlet and get a extra run.

    Thanks for the suggestion AviTrek.
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    W.W. CarlisleW.W. Carlisle ✭✭✭✭✭
    17/45 and RNG hates me, as usual. I really don't care anymore. Either I have zero grasp of how it works or I'm cursed. I'm no longer worried about it, that's for sure.
    W.W. CarlislePlayed since January 20, 2019Captain Level- 99 (May 9, 2022)VIP 14Crew Quarters: 485/485Most recent/Lowest- Anbo-jyutsu Kyle Riker (1/5* Lvl 30) 5/29/23Immortalized x-866 5* x184, 4* x 490, 3* x91, 2* x62, and 1* x27Most recent Immortal - Tearful Janeway 4* 5/25/23Current non-event project- Improving my Science base skill. Retrieval Project- Mestral 1/5*
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    NotrabNotrab ✭✭
    My concern with the midweek events is: Why the same thing so many weeks in a row? I think some variety in goals and difficulty is called for. I'm at level 75, but my ability to succeed at the Gauntlet part of the "Unleashed" event is totally up to the RNG. I've succeeded 2/3 times, but the time I failed I didn't even come close. I have a newer player in my squadron that would love to see some objective events return for which he would have a chance of success.
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    IvanstoneIvanstone ✭✭✭✭✭
    Notrab wrote: »
    I have a newer player in my squadron that would love to see some objective events return for which he would have a chance of success.

    The other weekly OE's are poor in comparison. Completing the shuttle portion gives you 3xShuttle Rentals and 5x5* Speedups. That's pretty good on top of what is effectively a free 10Pack.

    The Arena portion is very easy if you tank. Its rewards alone are also better than the weekly OEs.

    The Gauntlet I still don't think its an issue and notably the people complaining about it aren't sharing the total number of rounds, attempts per round and their crew so we can't tell if their bad RNG is in fact bad RNG. For me getting 20+ wins per day is what I do when I need the current crew and I've been doing it since the Gauntlet was introduced. There are things that they should do to liven things up with the Gauntlet but that's unrelated to the OE. One thing is introduce a method to increase variation in crew stats to help break up walls. And introduce more ENG gauntlet crew.
    VIP 13 - 310 Crew Slots - 1055 Immortals
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    Variety, please! No to participation trophies.
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    ChaosChildChaosChild ✭✭✭✭✭
    Notrab wrote: »
    My concern with the midweek events is: Why the same thing so many weeks in a row? I think some variety in goals and difficulty is called for. I'm at level 75, but my ability to succeed at the Gauntlet part of the "Unleashed" event is totally up to the RNG. I've succeeded 2/3 times, but the time I failed I didn't even come close. I have a newer player in my squadron that would love to see some objective events return for which he would have a chance of success.

    The reason we've had the same thing for so many consecutive weeks is that the other events, the ones aimed at lower ranked players, have a bug where players weren't being credited with results that they had achieved. Apparently, this bug is too complicated for WRG to fix easily, as it's taken about a month so far with no sign of progress.
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    W.W. CarlisleW.W. Carlisle ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2022
    With thirteen hours to go, I'm as 22/45. I will not make it. Gauntlet is not my friend. I can try again in an hour and a half.
    p82ospdb7ne9.png
    W.W. CarlislePlayed since January 20, 2019Captain Level- 99 (May 9, 2022)VIP 14Crew Quarters: 485/485Most recent/Lowest- Anbo-jyutsu Kyle Riker (1/5* Lvl 30) 5/29/23Immortalized x-866 5* x184, 4* x 490, 3* x91, 2* x62, and 1* x27Most recent Immortal - Tearful Janeway 4* 5/25/23Current non-event project- Improving my Science base skill. Retrieval Project- Mestral 1/5*
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    PeetsPeets ✭✭✭✭
    With thirteen hours to go, I'm as 22/45. I will not make it. Gauntlet is not my friend. I can try again in an hour and a half.
    p82ospdb7ne9.png

    The setup you are using is the problem.
    You have three Com/Dip/Sec which is very bad. You only need 1.
    You have no medic, only 1 SCI and ENG.
    Aim for at least all skills 2. Or maybe one skill 1.
    Bring in more variety, even if they are weaker.
    Use gauntlet tab from Big Book Advice to find crew which are strong.
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    W.W. CarlisleW.W. Carlisle ✭✭✭✭✭
    I intentionally left out Med. I decided to try the missing skill thing to lose trophies this time around or Defensive Phlox would be in there somewhere.
    Seeing as I only have three of the ones that come up at the top of the tab when i open it and only two are fully equipped, I don't have high hopes. For that particular skill combo, I only have five of the ten for it and only Kahless and Balok are competitive. I can try working through the list and finishing the few that I have that aren't equipped and see what comes of it.
    W.W. CarlislePlayed since January 20, 2019Captain Level- 99 (May 9, 2022)VIP 14Crew Quarters: 485/485Most recent/Lowest- Anbo-jyutsu Kyle Riker (1/5* Lvl 30) 5/29/23Immortalized x-866 5* x184, 4* x 490, 3* x91, 2* x62, and 1* x27Most recent Immortal - Tearful Janeway 4* 5/25/23Current non-event project- Improving my Science base skill. Retrieval Project- Mestral 1/5*
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    weakinteractionweakinteraction ✭✭✭✭
    With thirteen hours to go, I'm as 22/45. I will not make it. Gauntlet is not my friend. I can try again in an hour and a half.
    p82ospdb7ne9.png

    Unless you're completely out of merits, keep rerolling. That EV Suit Picard can easily snipe a wall of Caretakers when ENG/CMD comes up and CMD/DIP/SEC combos will still come up with occasional gaps in the wall - as well as your Tain, at 65% Balok can still take on some of the characters who come up at CMD/(SEC or DIP) from people who haven't managed to snag him yet, even double-fatigued.
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