Putting oneself deliberately in such a disadvantaged situation is a decision I respect, but I am not sure why Fleet Boss Battles are suddenly the deal breaker.
It's simple actually. It's the difference between difficult and impossible.
Quoting, but speaking to everyone who needs to hear this...
It is "impossible" by choice, that is the point I am making. There is a remedy to the problem already in place; join a fleet. Players need fleets more than ever now, active fleets are always looking for new members more than ever now, it is win-win.
To people in dying fleets or small fleets, if you want to keep your core players together find people in a similar situation and merge fleets (I'd move everyone into the fleet with the best starbase). For people who defiantly refuse to join a fleet for "reasons", find 49 like-minded individuals, start a fleet called Desolation Row, have everyone join up and then be content being alone together in a collective of 50 one-person squadrons. Or just add Fleet Bosses to the long list of other things you are depriving yourself of by choice.
This is a fleet-driven game. Join a fleet, merge fleets, or create a fleet. There are dozens of established fleets with fully developed starbases looking for active players RIGHT NOW, pick one you like, join up, and you will have helped solve TWO problems. Your new Admiral/officers/fleet will thank you, and you will thank yourself when you start getting bonus chronitons, lots of bonus Honor, huge starbase bonuses, and the ability to actually have fun with the Fleet Boss.
Going from an idle Fleet to an active one has immediate benefits. I love my new Fleet and hope I am worthy of it! Thank you to my leader!
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
I think that a one-man fleet is an extreme example, but this isn't affecting only such tiny fleets.
We're a fleet with 49 daily active players, most of which are at level 90+, we allow 2 days off a week, but almost no one takes advantage of that. We have a Discord chat where about half of our players communicate their strategies and attempts and we're able to make sure that 40+ players focus on the battle we ask them to, every day. But we're currently struggling with Brutal. We're preparing an organised effort and we will defeat it, but that will lead to two possible scenarios:
1) Nightmare and Ultra-Nightmare are for some reason much easier to complete, which would mean that the whole feature is badly designed.
2) We'll face the same situation for Nightmare and Ultra-Nightmare up to the point where we'll potentially never complete the highest level, which will leave all of us with an incomplete bridge, even the people who spend heaps of cash on the game and buy extra Valor almost every day (we only have a couple of those players, admittedly).
It should be possible to complete the captain's bridge for players in casual fleets. Actual casual fleets, with 50 players who don't have a Discord, who don't have a job where they can log in any minute whenever they want, players at lv 30 or 40, people who might only play 4 days a week. Of course it would take them a lot longer, but it should be possible. As it is, I can't see someone in that type of fleet getting past lv 6 of the bridge, even if they keep playing for the next 5 years.
That's new and we don't have that kind of situation with any other "level-up-feature". No hard stop at Starbase lv45 for fleets with players who only buy the monthly card, no cap at captain lv33 for those who are VIP0 and so on.
I think that a one-man fleet is an extreme example, but this isn't affecting only such tiny fleets.
We're a fleet with 49 daily active players, most of which are at level 90+, we allow 2 days off a week, but almost no one takes advantage of that. We have a Discord chat where about half of our players communicate their strategies and attempts and we're able to make sure that 40+ players focus on the battle we ask them to, every day. But we're currently struggling with Brutal. We're preparing an organised effort and we will defeat it, but that will lead to two possible scenarios:
1) Nightmare and Ultra-Nightmare are for some reason much easier to complete, which would mean that the whole feature is badly designed.
2) We'll face the same situation for Nightmare and Ultra-Nightmare up to the point where we'll potentially never complete the highest level, which will leave all of us with an incomplete bridge, even the people who spend heaps of cash on the game and buy extra Valor almost every day (we only have a couple of those players, admittedly).
It should be possible to complete the captain's bridge for players in casual fleets. Actual casual fleets, with 50 players who don't have a Discord, who don't have a job where they can log in any minute whenever they want, players at lv 30 or 40, people who might only play 4 days a week. Of course it would take them a lot longer, but it should be possible. As it is, I can't see someone in that type of fleet getting past lv 6 of the bridge, even if they keep playing for the next 5 years.
That's new and we don't have that kind of situation with any other "level-up-feature". No hard stop at Starbase lv45 for fleets with players who only buy the monthly card, no cap at captain lv33 for those who are VIP0 and so on.
My fleet's in a similar situation, and I agree that's a pretty huge problem with the feature. It basically turns any fleet that doesn't have 50 whales into "filthy casuals."
Putting oneself deliberately in such a disadvantaged situation is a decision I respect, but I am not sure why Fleet Boss Battles are suddenly the deal breaker.
It's simple actually. It's the difference between difficult and impossible.
Quoting, but speaking to everyone who needs to hear this...
It is "impossible" by choice, that is the point I am making. There is a remedy to the problem already in place; join a fleet. Players need fleets more than ever now, active fleets are always looking for new members more than ever now, it is win-win.
To people in dying fleets or small fleets, if you want to keep your core players together find people in a similar situation and merge fleets (I'd move everyone into the fleet with the best starbase). For people who defiantly refuse to join a fleet for "reasons", find 49 like-minded individuals, start a fleet called Desolation Row, have everyone join up and then be content being alone together in a collective of 50 one-person squadrons. Or just add Fleet Bosses to the long list of other things you are depriving yourself of by choice.
This is a fleet-driven game. Join a fleet, merge fleets, or create a fleet. There are dozens of established fleets with fully developed starbases looking for active players RIGHT NOW, pick one you like, join up, and you will have helped solve TWO problems. Your new Admiral/officers/fleet will thank you, and you will thank yourself when you start getting bonus chronitons, lots of bonus Honor, huge starbase bonuses, and the ability to actually have fun with the Fleet Boss.
Everything in this game is by choice. The best way to advance is to buy campaigns or spend money in some other way, but there are players who choose not to. This is a P2W game, but F2P players can eventually get the crew they want.
The best way to get new crew is to play and compete in events. But players can choose not to. They still have the option of buying packs for crew or waiting until that crew show up in the portal. You can say this is an event driven game, but players can choose to not compete and they can still get the crew eventually.
This boss is different. If players choose not to be in a full competitive fleet there is no way to earn McCoy. He's the first crew that will be 100% unobtainable unless you do X. That's a fundamental change in the game design.
Imagine if there was a crew that was only in an ultra premium campaign and we were told they would never be added to the portal? Or a crew in a permanent paid pack for $100. You could buy the crew whenever you wanted, but you had to buy the crew to get them. Or a crew that was only available below rank 100 in an expedition event and would not show up in the portal eventually. Or even imagine if voyages was locked and you needed to be VIP14 to play voyages. That's how the higher levels feel to players in small fleets.
My fleet did a normal battle and we did 75% damage. Now I see that only the top 3 captains received any of the rewards for getting to 75% damage....like the 2 Kemocite....Not fair at all since 26 of us took part in the battle. This is a real deal breaker for the lower ranking members of my fleet. There is no reason for them to use resources and time for something that gives them nothing.
You need to do enough damage to qualify for the personal rewards. Fleet rewards are completely dependant on hitting that threshold, if you don't make it then you don't get anything. This has been well documented, and the threshold was lowered to 1M damage for normal mode to make it easier for people to hit.
The personal rewards do not include Kemocite, which is needed to upgrade the bridge past level 3. So there is a "Kemocite" wall that personal rewards do not help with in the normal boss battle
My fleet did a normal battle and we did 75% damage. Now I see that only the top 3 captains received any of the rewards for getting to 75% damage....like the 2 Kemocite....Not fair at all since 26 of us took part in the battle. This is a real deal breaker for the lower ranking members of my fleet. There is no reason for them to use resources and time for something that gives them nothing.
You need to do enough damage to qualify for the personal rewards. Fleet rewards are completely dependant on hitting that threshold, if you don't make it then you don't get anything. This has been well documented, and the threshold was lowered to 1M damage for normal mode to make it easier for people to hit.
The personal rewards do not include Kemocite, which is needed to upgrade the bridge past level 3. So there is a "Kemocite" wall that personal rewards do not help with in the normal boss battle
There needs to be some kind of way for people to get all the materials. Even if it is a "slow" way. Like I suggested, add areas to the Starbase like the ones that drop Replicator Rations when full. Those usually take at least a week or so to complete one. Getting one copy of the hard to obtain materials less than once a week will not "break" the game. It will fix something that is broken for many players. They wanna use us as unpaid interns to Beta Test their new stuff. Then, when there is a "feedback thread", we get thanked for all of our feedback, but most issues never get addressed. Making it so even if it takes a long time, everyone at least knows they can eventually finish the Upgrades would actually encourage more involvement. What this new feature is supposed to be about. Involvement and engagement.
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
I completely agree about the reward problem which basically caps the captain bridge very quickly for most fleets. It's not just a matter of not being able to get some crew, it's a matter of the whole boss battle feature becoming completely pointless at that point...
Putting oneself deliberately in such a disadvantaged situation is a decision I respect, but I am not sure why Fleet Boss Battles are suddenly the deal breaker.
It's simple actually. It's the difference between difficult and impossible.
Quoting, but speaking to everyone who needs to hear this...
It is "impossible" by choice, that is the point I am making. There is a remedy to the problem already in place; join a fleet. Players need fleets more than ever now, active fleets are always looking for new members more than ever now, it is win-win.
To people in dying fleets or small fleets, if you want to keep your core players together find people in a similar situation and merge fleets (I'd move everyone into the fleet with the best starbase). For people who defiantly refuse to join a fleet for "reasons", find 49 like-minded individuals, start a fleet called Desolation Row, have everyone join up and then be content being alone together in a collective of 50 one-person squadrons. Or just add Fleet Bosses to the long list of other things you are depriving yourself of by choice.
This is a fleet-driven game. Join a fleet, merge fleets, or create a fleet. There are dozens of established fleets with fully developed starbases looking for active players RIGHT NOW, pick one you like, join up, and you will have helped solve TWO problems. Your new Admiral/officers/fleet will thank you, and you will thank yourself when you start getting bonus chronitons, lots of bonus Honor, huge starbase bonuses, and the ability to actually have fun with the Fleet Boss.
Except you lose the individuality of the smaller or less active fleets. Some of them are as old as the starbase feature itself, with members who helped build it. How would you like to build a starbase from scratch with your fleet mates, who are maybe less active but still a family none the less, and then one day you decide, hey we are merging fleets with this other group, im not your admiral anymore, you need to do dailies plus rank at least xxxx in all events, you need to give notice if you arent going to log in, or you get kicked. Oh, and you cant have your own squad anymore.
Your suggestion to just abandon that is not as simple or as easy as you make it seem. And something gwts lost when all those fleets blend together into a bigger fleet.
And questions arise about leadership structure and so on.
You make it sound simple but i dont imagine you would cast your fleet and starbase away as easily if the shoe was on the other foot, i mean im assuming you are atleast an officer or maybe an admiral.
It is simple. I did the EXACT thing you described when ISM was introduced. Instead of looking for excuses myself and several other like-minded Admirals of smaller fleets joined forces. I made them officers, they brought in their people, we became one fleet, and now we ALL thrive. It can be done, we are living proof.
Which brings me back to my original point, all the people in these small fleets as old as starbases have been perfectly happy for months leaving tens of thousands of Honor on the table, thousands of chrons on the table, sacrificing event performance, Gauntlet performance, shuttle performance, and voyage performance, and are now unhappy because they cannot get a few captain's bridge upgrades? You guys are trying to have your cake and eat it too. You chose the suboptimal path and are now suddenly upset that the suboptimal path has suboptimal outcomes and instead of just choosing the optimal path are doing whatever this is.
Fleets matter. They always have. Join a fleet, join forces, or be happy with your chosen situation. The choice is yours.
Perhaps my moderared post was too harsh, or too on the nose.
Suffice it to say, in your example, YOUR fleet survived. You absorbed other fleets. And YOU are still admiral.
How is that sustainable, or reasonable expectation for others? In your example, people get demoted. People lose their admiralcy, people lose their squads.
My fleet did a normal battle and we did 75% damage. Now I see that only the top 3 captains received any of the rewards for getting to 75% damage....like the 2 Kemocite....Not fair at all since 26 of us took part in the battle. This is a real deal breaker for the lower ranking members of my fleet. There is no reason for them to use resources and time for something that gives them nothing.
You need to do enough damage to qualify for the personal rewards. Fleet rewards are completely dependant on hitting that threshold, if you don't make it then you don't get anything. This has been well documented, and the threshold was lowered to 1M damage for normal mode to make it easier for people to hit.
The personal rewards do not include Kemocite, which is needed to upgrade the bridge past level 3. So there is a "Kemocite" wall that personal rewards do not help with in the normal boss battle
There needs to be some kind of way for people to get all the materials. Even if it is a "slow" way. Like I suggested, add areas to the Starbase like the ones that drop Replicator Rations when full. Those usually take at least a week or so to complete one. Getting one copy of the hard to obtain materials less than once a week will not "break" the game. It will fix something that is broken for many players. They wanna use us as unpaid interns to Beta Test their new stuff. Then, when there is a "feedback thread", we get thanked for all of our feedback, but most issues never get addressed. Making it so even if it takes a long time, everyone at least knows they can eventually finish the Upgrades would actually encourage more involvement. What this new feature is supposed to be about. Involvement and engagement.
Alternatively, add a tiny amount of kemocite and/or borocite for completing the combo chain. It solves part of the issue people have with not getting credit for matching traits, it provides another reason to focus on traits, and it provides a path forward for people in small fleets who can't beat the boss.
My fleet did a normal battle and we did 75% damage. Now I see that only the top 3 captains received any of the rewards for getting to 75% damage....like the 2 Kemocite....Not fair at all since 26 of us took part in the battle. This is a real deal breaker for the lower ranking members of my fleet. There is no reason for them to use resources and time for something that gives them nothing.
You need to do enough damage to qualify for the personal rewards. Fleet rewards are completely dependant on hitting that threshold, if you don't make it then you don't get anything. This has been well documented, and the threshold was lowered to 1M damage for normal mode to make it easier for people to hit.
The personal rewards do not include Kemocite, which is needed to upgrade the bridge past level 3. So there is a "Kemocite" wall that personal rewards do not help with in the normal boss battle
There needs to be some kind of way for people to get all the materials. Even if it is a "slow" way.
+1 on this
Add a tiny amount of Kemocite, Bilitrium and whatever comes after Bilitrium to personal rewards or to any other game feature that isn't behind a paywall.
Putting oneself deliberately in such a disadvantaged situation is a decision I respect, but I am not sure why Fleet Boss Battles are suddenly the deal breaker.
It's simple actually. It's the difference between difficult and impossible.
Quoting, but speaking to everyone who needs to hear this...
It is "impossible" by choice, that is the point I am making. There is a remedy to the problem already in place; join a fleet. Players need fleets more than ever now, active fleets are always looking for new members more than ever now, it is win-win.
To people in dying fleets or small fleets, if you want to keep your core players together find people in a similar situation and merge fleets (I'd move everyone into the fleet with the best starbase). For people who defiantly refuse to join a fleet for "reasons", find 49 like-minded individuals, start a fleet called Desolation Row, have everyone join up and then be content being alone together in a collective of 50 one-person squadrons. Or just add Fleet Bosses to the long list of other things you are depriving yourself of by choice.
This is a fleet-driven game. Join a fleet, merge fleets, or create a fleet. There are dozens of established fleets with fully developed starbases looking for active players RIGHT NOW, pick one you like, join up, and you will have helped solve TWO problems. Your new Admiral/officers/fleet will thank you, and you will thank yourself when you start getting bonus chronitons, lots of bonus Honor, huge starbase bonuses, and the ability to actually have fun with the Fleet Boss.
Except you lose the individuality of the smaller or less active fleets. Some of them are as old as the starbase feature itself, with members who helped build it. How would you like to build a starbase from scratch with your fleet mates, who are maybe less active but still a family none the less, and then one day you decide, hey we are merging fleets with this other group, im not your admiral anymore, you need to do dailies plus rank at least xxxx in all events, you need to give notice if you arent going to log in, or you get kicked. Oh, and you cant have your own squad anymore.
Your suggestion to just abandon that is not as simple or as easy as you make it seem. And something gwts lost when all those fleets blend together into a bigger fleet.
And questions arise about leadership structure and so on.
You make it sound simple but i dont imagine you would cast your fleet and starbase away as easily if the shoe was on the other foot, i mean im assuming you are atleast an officer or maybe an admiral.
It is simple. I did the EXACT thing you described when ISM was introduced. Instead of looking for excuses myself and several other like-minded Admirals of smaller fleets joined forces. I made them officers, they brought in their people, we became one fleet, and now we ALL thrive. It can be done, we are living proof.
Which brings me back to my original point, all the people in these small fleets as old as starbases have been perfectly happy for months leaving tens of thousands of Honor on the table, thousands of chrons on the table, sacrificing event performance, Gauntlet performance, shuttle performance, and voyage performance, and are now unhappy because they cannot get a few captain's bridge upgrades? You guys are trying to have your cake and eat it too. You chose the suboptimal path and are now suddenly upset that the suboptimal path has suboptimal outcomes and instead of just choosing the optimal path are doing whatever this is.
Fleets matter. They always have. Join a fleet, join forces, or be happy with your chosen situation. The choice is yours.
Perhaps my moderared post was too harsh, or too on the nose.
Suffice it to say, in your example, YOUR fleet survived. You absorbed other fleets. And YOU are still admiral.
How is that sustainable, or reasonable expectation for others? In your example, people get demoted. People lose their admiralcy, people lose their squads.
But, those people got to be part of a thriving active Fleet. The Fleet I was in until yesterday used to hit the full ISM Goals within a few hours of reset when it was first introduced as a goal. As of yesterday, I could not even tell you the last time we hit the FIRST Goal. About six of us were finishing the Dailies. Out of fifty.
I'd rather be a foot soldier in an active fleet that is getting the job done than a "leader" in a Fleet that does almost nothing, because most people have just given up or quit. If being the boss is more important than the Fleet doing well and everyone having support, that "leader" is in it for the wrong reasons and should not be a "leader".
We should appreciate the people that actually help people.
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
Proto Riker, Mariner, Ardra, Skorr Tchar has given me the best results.
Fleet Admiral - Dazed & Confused 🤸🤸🙃 We are still waiting for Enterprise B, the Delta Flyer, and a Runabout! We should also have a TNG season 1 red shirt LT JG Worf, and a "Far Beyond The Stars" DS9 episode crew collection!
Does anyone know what happens if you join a fight and then are offline for over 24 hours so it ends and one or more start (and end)? Do you still get the rewards from the one you weren't around to collect for?
This will be regular issue for me as I do not play on the Jewish Sabbath, so I'd like to know what to expect so I can plan properly.
I'm sure there are plenty of other people who will also be off for travel or internet down or really fast cycles through battles who would also be interested in the answer.
My fleet did a normal battle and we did 75% damage. Now I see that only the top 3 captains received any of the rewards for getting to 75% damage....like the 2 Kemocite....Not fair at all since 26 of us took part in the battle. This is a real deal breaker for the lower ranking members of my fleet. There is no reason for them to use resources and time for something that gives them nothing.
You need to do enough damage to qualify for the personal rewards. Fleet rewards are completely dependant on hitting that threshold, if you don't make it then you don't get anything. This has been well documented, and the threshold was lowered to 1M damage for normal mode to make it easier for people to hit.
The personal rewards do not include Kemocite, which is needed to upgrade the bridge past level 3. So there is a "Kemocite" wall that personal rewards do not help with in the normal boss battle
You're misunderstanding the point I was making. The kemocite is there, in the fleet rewards. But in order to get the fleet rewards you need to do enough damage to unlock the personal rewards. If you had done more damage you would have got both sets of rewards, including the kemocite.
I'm not sure what "resources" your players are using? In a 24 hour battle the game gives you 8 valor, which is more than enough to do enough damage to qualify. You should be able to hit threshold after completing 2 battles, maybe 3 if your ship/crew is seriously suboptimal. And as for time, each battle takes about 2 minutes, hardly a huge undertaking. The problem is that you're not using the resources that the game gives you, you're not putting in any effort at all, then you're complaining that your complete lack of effort isn't being rewarded.
This boss is different. If players choose not to be in a full competitive fleet there is no way to earn McCoy. He's the first crew that will be 100% unobtainable unless you do X. That's a fundamental change in the game design.
Imagine if there was a crew that was only in an ultra premium campaign and we were told they would never be added to the portal? Or a crew in a permanent paid pack for $100. You could buy the crew whenever you wanted, but you had to buy the crew to get them.
I disagree with Bylo Band's position in general, but crew in the Honor Hall and Gauntlet-exclusive crew are preexisting examples of crew that, by all indications, will never be in the portal. Which means they are unobtainable unless you do X. But in the past, X was things like "spend Honor" or "play the Gauntlet." This is the first time X has ever included joining a very active fleet.
But, those people got to be part of a thriving active Fleet.
Shouldn't that be their own choice, though? As in, they choose it because they want to get more ISM and other nice little bonuses, not because it's literally impossible to get some exclusive crew without it. The game is now essentially saying "here are some things you can't have at all, ever unless you put yourself in a social environment that some of you might not be comfortable with." That's different than not meeting ISM goals. You go on to say, "I'd rather be a foot soldier in an active fleet." Well, good for you, you should have the freedom to make that choice. And other people should have the freedom to make the opposite choice, without forever being locked out of getting certain crew cards.
Players left our fleet over ISM. (I'm honestly not sure why. We don't usually earn any as a fleet and I'm still sitting on close to half a million.) Their choice.
My Fleet (I was made admiral since the ISM thing, without warning or explanation.) has managed 50% on Normal once. We'll get it more consistently in the future.
We're not high enough for pack exclusive crew to be an issue yet, but the thing there is simple- you only need one in FIFTY to have bought the pack. Personally, I buy in for at least one of every purple. I've missed two- Kov and Roy. Kov is now in the Portal. By the time we get to it, I'll probably have him.
We try as a Fleet to figure out the combos, before people go at it. Even with only a small group of active players, we clear chains reasonably quickly. Sometimes we have a problem, but not usually. WE figure it out. "Hey! Does anyone have X?" "I do."
W.W. CarlislePlayed since January 20, 2019Captain Level- 99 (May 9, 2022)VIP 14Crew Quarters: 485/485Most recent/Lowest- Anbo-jyutsu Kyle Riker (1/5* Lvl 30) 5/29/23Immortalized x-866 5* x184, 4* x 490, 3* x91, 2* x62, and 1* x27Most recent Immortal - Tearful Janeway 4* 5/25/23Current non-event project- Improving my Science base skill. Retrieval Project- Mestral 1/5*
This boss is different. If players choose not to be in a full competitive fleet there is no way to earn McCoy. He's the first crew that will be 100% unobtainable unless you do X. That's a fundamental change in the game design.
Imagine if there was a crew that was only in an ultra premium campaign and we were told they would never be added to the portal? Or a crew in a permanent paid pack for $100. You could buy the crew whenever you wanted, but you had to buy the crew to get them.
I disagree with Bylo Band's position in general, but crew in the Honor Hall and Gauntlet-exclusive crew are preexisting examples of crew that, by all indications, will never be in the portal. Which means they are unobtainable unless you do X. But in the past, X was things like "spend Honor" or "play the Gauntlet." This is the first time X has ever included joining a very active fleet.
For honor hall it's, use a resource you earn for free while playing.
Gauntlet exclusive is a little closer. You need to play gauntlet to earn the crew. But everyone is able to play gauntlet. The equivalent here would be, you need to play FBB to earn Scotty and McCoy. And if that was the limit of it then I think everyone would agree, you need to play the feature to get the rewards for the feature.
But this is different. You have players saying we want to play the feature. But we don't want to be in a big active fleet. Let us play the feature without being in a big fleet.
That would be like saying, you can only launch a voyage after finishing top 10 in gauntlet. And players respond we want to launch voyages, but we don't want to have to play gauntlet. We were ok not getting gauntlet crew, but now we can't launch voyages and get those rewards because we don't want to play gauntlet.
IIRC, @WRG Ben mentioned in the last YouTube livestream (don't have a timestamp, sorry) that the FBB might cause an increase in fleet consolidation and/or players needing to join larger, more active fleets. If there is a business purpose for that underlying the design of this new game mechanism, I would be very interested in learning about it.
"In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
IIRC, @WRG Ben mentioned in the last YouTube livestream (don't have a timestamp, sorry) that the FBB might cause an increase in fleet consolidation and/or players needing to join larger, more active fleets. If there is a business purpose for that underlying the design of this new game mechanism, I would be very interested in learning about it.
The reason is peer pressure.
Its not always in your face and aggressive. But its always there. Example:
You are the new fish in a top 10 fleet, your new peers are running in the sub 100 ranks for the event, have all the shiny new crew, are filling up the channels bragging about their “lucky pulls” from purchasing the LTO, and as a result, people who typically spent less suddenly start spending more.
Im sure they can easily pull spending data and they have undoubtedly found that active fleets spend more, and people spend more when they are part of those fleets.
Im not saying they have bad intentikms. They want more money so if they can put people into social situations that make it more likely for them to spend, they are winning.
Sorry if this is a negative view. I think that its pretty realistic though.
IIRC, @WRG Ben mentioned in the last YouTube livestream (don't have a timestamp, sorry) that the FBB might cause an increase in fleet consolidation and/or players needing to join larger, more active fleets. If there is a business purpose for that underlying the design of this new game mechanism, I would be very interested in learning about it.
The reason is peer pressure.
Its not always in your face and aggressive. But its always there. Example:
You are the new fish in a top 10 fleet, your new peers are running in the sub 100 ranks for the event, have all the shiny new crew, are filling up the channels bragging about their “lucky pulls” from purchasing the LTO, and as a result, people who typically spent less suddenly start spending more.
Im sure they can easily pull spending data and they have undoubtedly found that active fleets spend more, and people spend more when they are part of those fleets.
Im not saying they have bad intentikms. They want more money so if they can put people into social situations that make it more likely for them to spend, they are winning.
Sorry if this is a negative view. I think that its pretty realistic though.
It seems like you are inclined towards the "malice" codicil of Hanlon's Razor, which is fine. You do you. 😈
I would prefer to hear about the company's perspective & reason(s), if any, from someone who works there. 🖖
"In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
IIRC, @WRG Ben mentioned in the last YouTube livestream (don't have a timestamp, sorry) that the FBB might cause an increase in fleet consolidation and/or players needing to join larger, more active fleets. If there is a business purpose for that underlying the design of this new game mechanism, I would be very interested in learning about it.
The reason is peer pressure.
Its not always in your face and aggressive. But its always there. Example:
You are the new fish in a top 10 fleet, your new peers are running in the sub 100 ranks for the event, have all the shiny new crew, are filling up the channels bragging about their “lucky pulls” from purchasing the LTO, and as a result, people who typically spent less suddenly start spending more.
Im sure they can easily pull spending data and they have undoubtedly found that active fleets spend more, and people spend more when they are part of those fleets.
Im not saying they have bad intentikms. They want more money so if they can put people into social situations that make it more likely for them to spend, they are winning.
Sorry if this is a negative view. I think that its pretty realistic though.
Fleets/players have been begging for more things to do as a fleet for years, to actually give purpose and value to the established fleet structure. Maybe the FBB & Captain's Bridge are just the next step after the introduction of the fleet star base, in a longer journey to do just that; put a bigger emphasis on fleets.
A lot of negativity about fleets has been presented as rampant fact, when that's just not the case. Does it happen, in terms of strict requirements and pressure? I'm sure it does, for fleets that have chosen to be high performance fleets. However, there are many fleets that have little to no requirements or pressure, including many that posters on here talk about (or even lead).
If I was a player who didn't like fleets or had previous bad experience with fleets, but wanted to get in on the increasing fleet fun, I'd just create a fleet that is meant to target other players just like me. I'd recruit here on the forums and be clear about my intentions, to gather likeminded players. By creating a friendly, welcoming, zero pressure fleet for people like myself, I might even come to like the fleet experience that has been created out of what started out as a negative.
Remember, a fleet is what the 50 individuals choose to make it.
No idea if it is suggested already.
But a possibility to buy Kemocite with magnesite
Bitrium with Kemocite
etc.
Then everyone can progress their captain bridge.
I've played other games that do this. This would eliminate the need for fleet cooperation, so I'd bet it's off the table. I agree that it would be nice, though. Just like it would be nice if enough of a 0* item converted to a 1*, 2*, etc. item, but the design is in place to make you need to run cadets, or specific away team mission or ship battles.
IIRC, @WRG Ben mentioned in the last YouTube livestream (don't have a timestamp, sorry) that the FBB might cause an increase in fleet consolidation and/or players needing to join larger, more active fleets. If there is a business purpose for that underlying the design of this new game mechanism, I would be very interested in learning about it.
I'm willing to bet data from the surveys and general user metrics suggest fleet participation positively correlates to things like satisfaction and retention.
If you're unwilling to do certain things why should you be rewarded for that behaviour?
Because this is a card-collecting game, not a socializing game. Having social contacts shouldn't be a requirement. if you don't have any social anxiety or discomfort at the thought of trying to fit in with 49 complete strangers, good for you. But other people are not all in the same boat, and they shouldn't be punished for that.
Imagine if there were exclusive crew that could only be obtained by watching a bunch of ads. I would be pretty upset about that, because watching ads is not actually a part of the game. It's something that's attached to the game which allows you to get some nice extra bonuses if you want to, but there shouldn't be a mission where the objective is to watch a lot of ads. By the same token, there shouldn't be a mission where the objective is to join an active fleet.
IIRC, @WRG Ben mentioned in the last YouTube livestream (don't have a timestamp, sorry) that the FBB might cause an increase in fleet consolidation and/or players needing to join larger, more active fleets. If there is a business purpose for that underlying the design of this new game mechanism, I would be very interested in learning about it.
The reason is peer pressure.
Its not always in your face and aggressive. But its always there. Example:
You are the new fish in a top 10 fleet, your new peers are running in the sub 100 ranks for the event, have all the shiny new crew, are filling up the channels bragging about their “lucky pulls” from purchasing the LTO, and as a result, people who typically spent less suddenly start spending more.
Im sure they can easily pull spending data and they have undoubtedly found that active fleets spend more, and people spend more when they are part of those fleets.
Im not saying they have bad intentikms. They want more money so if they can put people into social situations that make it more likely for them to spend, they are winning.
Sorry if this is a negative view. I think that its pretty realistic though.
It seems like you are inclined towards the "malice" codicil of Hanlon's Razor, which is fine. You do you. 😈
I would prefer to hear about the company's perspective & reason(s), if any, from someone who works there. 🖖
Sorry. I wasnt trying to say they have bad intentions. I think they want players to enjoy the game and spend money.
This boss is different. If players choose not to be in a full competitive fleet there is no way to earn McCoy. He's the first crew that will be 100% unobtainable unless you do X. That's a fundamental change in the game design.
Imagine if there was a crew that was only in an ultra premium campaign and we were told they would never be added to the portal? Or a crew in a permanent paid pack for $100. You could buy the crew whenever you wanted, but you had to buy the crew to get them.
I disagree with Bylo Band's position in general, but crew in the Honor Hall and Gauntlet-exclusive crew are preexisting examples of crew that, by all indications, will never be in the portal. Which means they are unobtainable unless you do X. But in the past, X was things like "spend Honor" or "play the Gauntlet." This is the first time X has ever included joining a very active fleet.
But, those people got to be part of a thriving active Fleet.
Shouldn't that be their own choice, though? As in, they choose it because they want to get more ISM and other nice little bonuses, not because it's literally impossible to get some exclusive crew without it. The game is now essentially saying "here are some things you can't have at all, ever unless you put yourself in a social environment that some of you might not be comfortable with." That's different than not meeting ISM goals. You go on to say, "I'd rather be a foot soldier in an active fleet." Well, good for you, you should have the freedom to make that choice. And other people should have the freedom to make the opposite choice, without forever being locked out of getting certain crew cards.
Instead of picking out one line of what I said, maybe post the entire quote? Which would show that I NEVER said anyone HAD to change Fleets? I believe I even mentioned it was up to people what they want to do. Selective quoting to misstate what someone said is kind of a childish thing. But people love doing it here for some reason .
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
Comments
Going from an idle Fleet to an active one has immediate benefits. I love my new Fleet and hope I am worthy of it! Thank you to my leader!
We're a fleet with 49 daily active players, most of which are at level 90+, we allow 2 days off a week, but almost no one takes advantage of that. We have a Discord chat where about half of our players communicate their strategies and attempts and we're able to make sure that 40+ players focus on the battle we ask them to, every day. But we're currently struggling with Brutal. We're preparing an organised effort and we will defeat it, but that will lead to two possible scenarios:
1) Nightmare and Ultra-Nightmare are for some reason much easier to complete, which would mean that the whole feature is badly designed.
2) We'll face the same situation for Nightmare and Ultra-Nightmare up to the point where we'll potentially never complete the highest level, which will leave all of us with an incomplete bridge, even the people who spend heaps of cash on the game and buy extra Valor almost every day (we only have a couple of those players, admittedly).
It should be possible to complete the captain's bridge for players in casual fleets. Actual casual fleets, with 50 players who don't have a Discord, who don't have a job where they can log in any minute whenever they want, players at lv 30 or 40, people who might only play 4 days a week. Of course it would take them a lot longer, but it should be possible. As it is, I can't see someone in that type of fleet getting past lv 6 of the bridge, even if they keep playing for the next 5 years.
That's new and we don't have that kind of situation with any other "level-up-feature". No hard stop at Starbase lv45 for fleets with players who only buy the monthly card, no cap at captain lv33 for those who are VIP0 and so on.
Some people in my fleet use Mariner, Zimmerman, Ardra, Undercover O'Brien (not necessarily in that order).
Lol, there it is.
My fleet's in a similar situation, and I agree that's a pretty huge problem with the feature. It basically turns any fleet that doesn't have 50 whales into "filthy casuals."
Everything in this game is by choice. The best way to advance is to buy campaigns or spend money in some other way, but there are players who choose not to. This is a P2W game, but F2P players can eventually get the crew they want.
The best way to get new crew is to play and compete in events. But players can choose not to. They still have the option of buying packs for crew or waiting until that crew show up in the portal. You can say this is an event driven game, but players can choose to not compete and they can still get the crew eventually.
This boss is different. If players choose not to be in a full competitive fleet there is no way to earn McCoy. He's the first crew that will be 100% unobtainable unless you do X. That's a fundamental change in the game design.
Imagine if there was a crew that was only in an ultra premium campaign and we were told they would never be added to the portal? Or a crew in a permanent paid pack for $100. You could buy the crew whenever you wanted, but you had to buy the crew to get them. Or a crew that was only available below rank 100 in an expedition event and would not show up in the portal eventually. Or even imagine if voyages was locked and you needed to be VIP14 to play voyages. That's how the higher levels feel to players in small fleets.
The personal rewards do not include Kemocite, which is needed to upgrade the bridge past level 3. So there is a "Kemocite" wall that personal rewards do not help with in the normal boss battle
There needs to be some kind of way for people to get all the materials. Even if it is a "slow" way. Like I suggested, add areas to the Starbase like the ones that drop Replicator Rations when full. Those usually take at least a week or so to complete one. Getting one copy of the hard to obtain materials less than once a week will not "break" the game. It will fix something that is broken for many players. They wanna use us as unpaid interns to Beta Test their new stuff. Then, when there is a "feedback thread", we get thanked for all of our feedback, but most issues never get addressed. Making it so even if it takes a long time, everyone at least knows they can eventually finish the Upgrades would actually encourage more involvement. What this new feature is supposed to be about. Involvement and engagement.
Hopefully these are improved with the next client.
Perhaps my moderared post was too harsh, or too on the nose.
Suffice it to say, in your example, YOUR fleet survived. You absorbed other fleets. And YOU are still admiral.
How is that sustainable, or reasonable expectation for others? In your example, people get demoted. People lose their admiralcy, people lose their squads.
Alternatively, add a tiny amount of kemocite and/or borocite for completing the combo chain. It solves part of the issue people have with not getting credit for matching traits, it provides another reason to focus on traits, and it provides a path forward for people in small fleets who can't beat the boss.
+1 on this
Add a tiny amount of Kemocite, Bilitrium and whatever comes after Bilitrium to personal rewards or to any other game feature that isn't behind a paywall.
But, those people got to be part of a thriving active Fleet. The Fleet I was in until yesterday used to hit the full ISM Goals within a few hours of reset when it was first introduced as a goal. As of yesterday, I could not even tell you the last time we hit the FIRST Goal. About six of us were finishing the Dailies. Out of fifty.
I'd rather be a foot soldier in an active fleet that is getting the job done than a "leader" in a Fleet that does almost nothing, because most people have just given up or quit. If being the boss is more important than the Fleet doing well and everyone having support, that "leader" is in it for the wrong reasons and should not be a "leader".
We should appreciate the people that actually help people.
Proto Riker, Mariner, Ardra, Skorr Tchar has given me the best results.
Seems like that Ship has a lot of good combos. Hopefully most people can get together at least one Crew out of the options that does good.
@Shan ?
This will be regular issue for me as I do not play on the Jewish Sabbath, so I'd like to know what to expect so I can plan properly.
I'm sure there are plenty of other people who will also be off for travel or internet down or really fast cycles through battles who would also be interested in the answer.
You're misunderstanding the point I was making. The kemocite is there, in the fleet rewards. But in order to get the fleet rewards you need to do enough damage to unlock the personal rewards. If you had done more damage you would have got both sets of rewards, including the kemocite.
I'm not sure what "resources" your players are using? In a 24 hour battle the game gives you 8 valor, which is more than enough to do enough damage to qualify. You should be able to hit threshold after completing 2 battles, maybe 3 if your ship/crew is seriously suboptimal. And as for time, each battle takes about 2 minutes, hardly a huge undertaking. The problem is that you're not using the resources that the game gives you, you're not putting in any effort at all, then you're complaining that your complete lack of effort isn't being rewarded.
Define a ‘best’ result.
Riker only gives a +7 attack. Zimmerman gives a +10 with a very long duration.
I disagree with Bylo Band's position in general, but crew in the Honor Hall and Gauntlet-exclusive crew are preexisting examples of crew that, by all indications, will never be in the portal. Which means they are unobtainable unless you do X. But in the past, X was things like "spend Honor" or "play the Gauntlet." This is the first time X has ever included joining a very active fleet.
Shouldn't that be their own choice, though? As in, they choose it because they want to get more ISM and other nice little bonuses, not because it's literally impossible to get some exclusive crew without it. The game is now essentially saying "here are some things you can't have at all, ever unless you put yourself in a social environment that some of you might not be comfortable with." That's different than not meeting ISM goals. You go on to say, "I'd rather be a foot soldier in an active fleet." Well, good for you, you should have the freedom to make that choice. And other people should have the freedom to make the opposite choice, without forever being locked out of getting certain crew cards.
If you're unwilling to do certain things why should you be rewarded for that behaviour?
This isn't even a situation where you're being asked to do something difficult. You're being asked to do something that's pretty easy.
My Fleet (I was made admiral since the ISM thing, without warning or explanation.) has managed 50% on Normal once. We'll get it more consistently in the future.
We're not high enough for pack exclusive crew to be an issue yet, but the thing there is simple- you only need one in FIFTY to have bought the pack. Personally, I buy in for at least one of every purple. I've missed two- Kov and Roy. Kov is now in the Portal. By the time we get to it, I'll probably have him.
We try as a Fleet to figure out the combos, before people go at it. Even with only a small group of active players, we clear chains reasonably quickly. Sometimes we have a problem, but not usually. WE figure it out. "Hey! Does anyone have X?" "I do."
For honor hall it's, use a resource you earn for free while playing.
Gauntlet exclusive is a little closer. You need to play gauntlet to earn the crew. But everyone is able to play gauntlet. The equivalent here would be, you need to play FBB to earn Scotty and McCoy. And if that was the limit of it then I think everyone would agree, you need to play the feature to get the rewards for the feature.
But this is different. You have players saying we want to play the feature. But we don't want to be in a big active fleet. Let us play the feature without being in a big fleet.
That would be like saying, you can only launch a voyage after finishing top 10 in gauntlet. And players respond we want to launch voyages, but we don't want to have to play gauntlet. We were ok not getting gauntlet crew, but now we can't launch voyages and get those rewards because we don't want to play gauntlet.
The reason is peer pressure.
Its not always in your face and aggressive. But its always there. Example:
You are the new fish in a top 10 fleet, your new peers are running in the sub 100 ranks for the event, have all the shiny new crew, are filling up the channels bragging about their “lucky pulls” from purchasing the LTO, and as a result, people who typically spent less suddenly start spending more.
Im sure they can easily pull spending data and they have undoubtedly found that active fleets spend more, and people spend more when they are part of those fleets.
Im not saying they have bad intentikms. They want more money so if they can put people into social situations that make it more likely for them to spend, they are winning.
Sorry if this is a negative view. I think that its pretty realistic though.
I would prefer to hear about the company's perspective & reason(s), if any, from someone who works there. 🖖
Fleets/players have been begging for more things to do as a fleet for years, to actually give purpose and value to the established fleet structure. Maybe the FBB & Captain's Bridge are just the next step after the introduction of the fleet star base, in a longer journey to do just that; put a bigger emphasis on fleets.
A lot of negativity about fleets has been presented as rampant fact, when that's just not the case. Does it happen, in terms of strict requirements and pressure? I'm sure it does, for fleets that have chosen to be high performance fleets. However, there are many fleets that have little to no requirements or pressure, including many that posters on here talk about (or even lead).
If I was a player who didn't like fleets or had previous bad experience with fleets, but wanted to get in on the increasing fleet fun, I'd just create a fleet that is meant to target other players just like me. I'd recruit here on the forums and be clear about my intentions, to gather likeminded players. By creating a friendly, welcoming, zero pressure fleet for people like myself, I might even come to like the fleet experience that has been created out of what started out as a negative.
Remember, a fleet is what the 50 individuals choose to make it.
I've played other games that do this. This would eliminate the need for fleet cooperation, so I'd bet it's off the table. I agree that it would be nice, though. Just like it would be nice if enough of a 0* item converted to a 1*, 2*, etc. item, but the design is in place to make you need to run cadets, or specific away team mission or ship battles.
I'm willing to bet data from the surveys and general user metrics suggest fleet participation positively correlates to things like satisfaction and retention.
Because this is a card-collecting game, not a socializing game. Having social contacts shouldn't be a requirement. if you don't have any social anxiety or discomfort at the thought of trying to fit in with 49 complete strangers, good for you. But other people are not all in the same boat, and they shouldn't be punished for that.
Imagine if there were exclusive crew that could only be obtained by watching a bunch of ads. I would be pretty upset about that, because watching ads is not actually a part of the game. It's something that's attached to the game which allows you to get some nice extra bonuses if you want to, but there shouldn't be a mission where the objective is to watch a lot of ads. By the same token, there shouldn't be a mission where the objective is to join an active fleet.
Sorry. I wasnt trying to say they have bad intentions. I think they want players to enjoy the game and spend money.
Instead of picking out one line of what I said, maybe post the entire quote? Which would show that I NEVER said anyone HAD to change Fleets? I believe I even mentioned it was up to people what they want to do. Selective quoting to misstate what someone said is kind of a childish thing. But people love doing it here for some reason .