So I see that one of the buffs is a 'Reflection' bonus. Has it been verified that this works now, as ships with that ability didn't before the upgrade.
Thanks Ben!
"Never teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig" Lazarus Long, Time Enough for Love, R.A. Heinlein
The new OE looks interesting, and might well help fleets take a crack at a boss a level higher than they're currently managing with good coordination. This is good!
But it looks to me as though the only way to get the final tier (and thus the full completion bonus) is to spend dil, and thus it becomes something close to "buy one, get one free" for Valor if you do choose to spend that dil. As far as I can remember, all previous OEs have been possible (even if challenging) to finish without dil, so this does feel like a bit of a change (and one I would consider negative).
Would love to know if I have a) miscalculated, b) missed something that says this is going to last longer than the standard 48 hrs or c) there's going to be another 10-valor pack in the Honor Hall, which would change things.
The new OE looks interesting, and might well help fleets take a crack at a boss a level higher than they're currently managing with good coordination. This is good!
But it looks to me as though the only way to get the final tier (and thus the full completion bonus) is to spend dil, and thus it becomes something close to "buy one, get one free" for Valor if you do choose to spend that dil. As far as I can remember, all previous OEs have been possible (even if challenging) to finish without dil, so this does feel like a bit of a change (and one I would consider negative).
Would love to know if I have a) miscalculated, b) missed something that says this is going to last longer than the standard 48 hrs or c) there's going to be another 10-valor pack in the Honor Hall, which would change things.
You haven't miscalculated. This would be the equivalent of play 30 arena matches to win 5 arena tokens. No win requirement, but play more than is possible without buying extra tickets. And then the only reward is even more tickets.
There is no skill, there is no challenge, just simple spend Dil to finish. And no real reward for it either.
In my fleet just now, we've identified the right match for a node. What's happens now? We sit around and wait for someone who has that crew to get valor so they can run an attack and finish up the combo chain. Back in the olden days, we could've said "let's see, what combination of multiple crew would be able to unlock this node so we don't have to just sit on our hands waiting for the one exact match?" These days, all we can do is sit around and wait. Not play, not interact with the game in any way, just wait.
Being able to unlock nodes with multiple crew makes fleet boss battles more fun, dynamic, and strategic. It's just better, by every possible paradigm except the one that asks "what might induce players to spend more dilithium on valor refreshes"?
The more recent update to FBB with the buffs and such made some legitimately positive changes, but I still can't get it out of mind how nakedly greedy that earlier "fix" was.
If it was a unique trait at that tier, you had to wait anyway. My fleet played it the corrected way from the beginning, so we don't really even notice it's different.
We would like a better way to leave suggestions though. I listed the four possible crew for the last node and a player asked about it two hours later. He couldn't see them in chat.
Could we make the crew list ignore greyed out traits? It covers part of the trait list and, even if it isn't viable with the trait greyed out, crew are still showing as possible. That's a good way to waste Merits and Valor. Something for 9.2 maybe?
W.W. CarlislePlayed since January 20, 2019Captain Level- 99 (May 9, 2022)VIP 14Crew Quarters: 485/485Most recent/Lowest- Anbo-jyutsu Kyle Riker (1/5* Lvl 30) 5/29/23Immortalized x-866 5* x184, 4* x 490, 3* x91, 2* x62, and 1* x27Most recent Immortal - Tearful Janeway 4* 5/25/23Current non-event project- Improving my Science base skill. Retrieval Project- Mestral 1/5*
I'm not sure how many of my fleet even knew the other way was possible. I didn't at first. I found out here and, by then, it was slated for correction, so I never bothered to bring it up. Any time we cleared a node that way was chance. It was a sometimes useful glitch they fixed and they were honest about it having been a mistake from the beginning. Some people liked it, but we've moved on. If we're dredging up the past, I'd like Loot boxes back in Campaign tracks please. Those I miss.
I'm a walking encyclopedia (Asperger's at work and play, so I will admit to lacking social skills), so I've been my fleet's go to for trait, skill, variants, et c. long before Retrieval made it so easy to do it yourself. Before the suggested crew list covered the Vault, I worked out the possibilities for nodes with a whiteboard and screenshot of the trait list. I posted them to chat and we went from there.
That is my specialty. It's how I contribute. My quarters is nearly all golds, but we have a handful of players that are new enough to use those low rarity crew daily. They are our secret weapons. That is why I wanted rewards for all the participants. They did more for us clearing nodes than anyone and were getting nothing for it! They weren't clearing the minimum on Normal, but when I put out a call for 2* Leeta or Thomas Riker, these were the ones that answered. There are some fleets that would have booted those players, from what I understand.
The purpose of FBB was to give Fleets a joint task, a very Star Trek thing really, and my fleet plays as a fleet. I was made Admiral by our Founding Admiral and he doesn't want it back. I asked. So I coordinate. That's what I do best. That's me with my Kindle, a pen, and scrap paper at Wal-Mart working out a possibiles list to post. Our senior players, the Officers, deal damage and, sometimes clear a node or two. The rest, our junior captains, are our problem solvers, our node clearers, and I give them all the credit they are due. We will work at things until we get them and we will get them.
W.W. CarlislePlayed since January 20, 2019Captain Level- 99 (May 9, 2022)VIP 14Crew Quarters: 485/485Most recent/Lowest- Anbo-jyutsu Kyle Riker (1/5* Lvl 30) 5/29/23Immortalized x-866 5* x184, 4* x 490, 3* x91, 2* x62, and 1* x27Most recent Immortal - Tearful Janeway 4* 5/25/23Current non-event project- Improving my Science base skill. Retrieval Project- Mestral 1/5*
It was a sometimes useful glitch they fixed and they were honest about it having been a mistake from the beginning.
It was a mistake that made the game more fun (for the people who did know about it, and didn't make the game less fun for those who didn't), and the one and only possible reason they could have for taking it away was prioritizing profit over player experience. Sorry if I have a little trouble moving on from that.
I'm a walking encyclopedia (Asperger's at work and play, so I will admit to lacking social skills), so I've been my fleet's go to for trait, skill, variants, et c. long before Retrieval made it so easy to do it yourself. Before the suggested crew list covered the Vault, I worked out the possibilities for nodes with a whiteboard and screenshot of the trait list. I posted them to chat and we went from there. That is my specialty. It's how I contribute.
That's cool, I'm in a similar boat. But imagine if, once you figured out all the possibilities for a node, you could make the further contribution of figuring out the smallest possible number of crew that could cover the largest possible number of traits. Instead of "here are the twelve crew that might be matches for these nodes," it could be "here are four crew that could cover ten of those different possibilities, now let me see if I can find a combination of four crew that could cover eleven!" You wouldn't have to worry as much about people working on nodes getting nothing for it (which is still an issue with losing out on Magnesite even though they will get the boss destruction rewards now) if the fleet could spend fewer attacks clearing nodes, because you cleverly figured out a way to cover a large number of traits with a small number of crew.
That's what we're missing out on now, because the people in charge decided to "fix" an unintended element of the game which had absolutely no negative impacts except helping people spend less dilithium.
Let's move on from: this was much better when multiple crew could satisfy one combo node, please
This has been addressed, it's not going to change. It's how the feature was designed, and balanced around.
I do. A crew on multiple node lists is always pointed out first and I'm big on running "shotguns" early and eliminating traits/clearing nodes as quickly as possible for maximum buff use. I had a list of eight crew for the three nodes of a chain combined yesterday. I usually present them with definite matches for a node first- "Node 2 is Cardassian Kira and Node 3 is Thomas Riker. Node 1 is X, Y, or Z. Y matches the most traits on the list. Anyone have them handy?" The available fleet then jumps in calling who they got and clearing nodes immediately or "I have Z and will get Valor in #minutes. Don't waste your Merits." We are only about 15 on battles and usually knock out the nodes in an hour or so.
As we're playing Hard to build everyone up, it's 4* and below. I have every crew in that pool except four, all purple- Ensign Picard, Roy Ritterhouse, the Data for tomorrow and the new Boimler for next week. That means my crew list shows everyone that could work. I have a list with those missing four's traits to refer to. I also know who in my fleet has who I don't and can cover that gap. I currently have nine "flex" slots, with 36 in overflow, for holding low rarity crew to use and discard for FBB. If need be, I can airlock extras and thaw nearly anyone we might need and I do that when I need to. I purple chase on Tuesday and it has been very useful since we reached Hard in the FBB.
My fleet has a lot of in and out players, so I do the strategy. I know the pool. I'm usually online to coordinate. We've had players pop in, load seats off my list, clear an entire chain in one go, and pop out until they have Valor again. That works for us.
I work from home as my own boss. It's a luxury I have. Work on the new chicken house with my Kindle running Timelines next to my tool bag. Check. Monitor progress while working on that research project. All the time. Now, I'm off to feed for a couple hours. The gang gets my full attention.
W.W. CarlislePlayed since January 20, 2019Captain Level- 99 (May 9, 2022)VIP 14Crew Quarters: 485/485Most recent/Lowest- Anbo-jyutsu Kyle Riker (1/5* Lvl 30) 5/29/23Immortalized x-866 5* x184, 4* x 490, 3* x91, 2* x62, and 1* x27Most recent Immortal - Tearful Janeway 4* 5/25/23Current non-event project- Improving my Science base skill. Retrieval Project- Mestral 1/5*
Let's move on from: this was much better when multiple crew could satisfy one combo node, please
This has been addressed, it's not going to change. It's how the feature was designed, and balanced around.
Let's move on from how the people in charge decided to make the game less fun for players so they could make a little more money? Yeah, I can see how you wouldn't want someone bringing that up.
Here, I'll make a deal with you. If you can give me any single reason why multiple crew satisfying one node made the player experience worse (or to put it another way: any reason to get rid of it besides the monetary interest in compelling players to spend dilithium for valor refreshes), then I will never bring up the subject again on this forum. I don't think you can do that, because I don't think there is any other reason to "fix" that except greed.
If you can do it, I'll reply with a hat tip and never bring it up again (and for the onlookers, if I don't reply, it's because Shan took away my ability to comment). If you can't do it, then I don't see how "the people in charge made a change that was motivated purely by greed" isn't a relevant form of feedback for the fleet boss battles feedback thread.
Is the purpose of this thread to make the fleet boss battles game mode more fun for players, or not? If it is, then describing a way that it's less fun than it used to be is exactly the type of comment you should be happy to see, and the type of change you should be eager to make.
Let's move on from: this was much better when multiple crew could satisfy one combo node, please
This has been addressed, it's not going to change. It's how the feature was designed, and balanced around.
Let's move on from how the people in charge decided to make the game less fun for players so they could make a little more money? Yeah, I can see how you wouldn't want someone bringing that up.
Here, I'll make a deal with you. If you can give me any single reason why multiple crew satisfying one node made the player experience worse (or to put it another way: any reason to get rid of it besides the monetary interest in compelling players to spend dilithium for valor refreshes), then I will never bring up the subject again on this forum. I don't think you can do that, because I don't think there is any other reason to "fix" that except greed.
If you can do it, I'll reply with a hat tip and never bring it up again (and for the onlookers, if I don't reply, it's because Shan took away my ability to comment). If you can't do it, then I don't see how "the people in charge made a change that was motivated purely by greed" isn't a relevant form of feedback for the fleet boss battles feedback thread.
Is the purpose of this thread to make the fleet boss battles game mode more fun for players, or not? If it is, then describing a way that it's less fun than it used to be is exactly the type of comment you should be happy to see, and the type of change you should be eager to make.
Comment moderated. ~Shan It has nothing to do with your game experience but with:
It's how the feature was designed, and balanced around.
It's how the feature was designed, and balanced around.
Everything they introduced in the most recent update was a deviation from how the feature was designed and balanced. You expect me to believe the new buffs don't throw off the balance at all? And yet, they made those changes anyway (and I commended them for it) because the goal is to make the feature more fun than what they had in mind when they started. If it wasn't, then what's the point of even having a feedback thread at all? If we're pretending like making the game mode more like the way it was originally designed is a good reason to make it less fun, then this thread shouldn't even be here, because any feedback at all is entirely contrary to the goal of making sure the original design is dogmatically preserved and set in stone, no matter how much fun is sacrificed in the process.
snip due to moderation of the post quoted. ~Shan
It seems very clear to me that whoever made that particular decision is greedy, but that doesn't mean everyone at WRG is. If every decision they made was motivated by greed like this, Timelines would be a very different game (which I probably would've given up on a long time ago). If I believe that there are people working for WRG who care more about player experience than profit, then I want to give those people every chance to hear about how a decision was made that elevated profit over player experience. My goal is for Timelines to be a game that a lot of people enjoy playing, not a cheap cash grab. What is your problem with that goal?
snip due to moderation of the post quoted. ~Shan
As long as the game continues to be less fun for me than it used to be, I will continue to have feedback for them about what would make it more fun. Why are you opposed to them making it more fun for players like me?
Move on to what, a different game? As long as I'm continuing to play Timelines, and continuing to play Fleet Boss Battles because I want the Timelines rewards that it provides, how am I supposed to move on from the persistent awareness that they rushed to make a change to that game mode which had no effect except to make it less fun for people like me? How can I continue attacking bosses and unlocking nodes without being constantly reminded how much more enjoyable it used to be before they raced to eliminate an accidental feature that didn't make the game mode unstable or buggy in any way? Tell me how I'm supposed to move on from that while continuing to play this game.
And if you can't tell me that, then tell me how the long-term sustainability of Star Trek Timelines is improved by players like me getting frustrated at their greed and leaving? Unless your goal is for this game's player base to slowly dwindle away until it has to be shut down, then I don't see how this surely helps your goal either.
Yes, I am angry, but that's only because I like this game and I want it to continue being fun. If you want Star Trek Timelines to continue being fun and not be taken over by design choices that are motivated by greed, then you and I have the same goal. If you want Star Trek Timelines to continue being fun, then you should want passionate players to express what would make the game more fun for them. You shouldn't want me to be quietly resentful until I eventually decide to just give up and play a different game.
Is this a feedback thread, or a cheerleading thread? If it's the former, then you shouldn't feel so threatened by negative feedback.
The announcement that said captains are surviving longer than intended is pretty unsettling.
Unless there is some crazy infinite build out there, if players are putting in the resources to lvl the necessaty ships to 10, and acquire the necessary crew to pilot them, AND putting in the time to have a deep enough roster to controlibute to the challenge nodes, then i think it is ver very unsettling that the developers are prioritizing a NERF instead of fixing the other issues that have been repeated again and again in this thread.
The fleet boss battle objective event challenge seems like another market pulse check to see how much more they can squeeze from people.
But the other troubling thing (and this is probably for another thread) is that this weeks tier one will be next weeks tier 3 at the rate that they are pumping out new crew. They are going to strain the deep core of the player base too far with this impulse buying/competing model that they are falling into.
Overall i really like fbb alot, but i obviously have some concerns
Let's move on from: this was much better when multiple crew could satisfy one combo node, please
This has been addressed, it's not going to change. It's how the feature was designed, and balanced around.
Let's move on from how the people in charge decided to make the game less fun for players so they could make a little more money? Yeah, I can see how you wouldn't want someone bringing that up.
Here, I'll make a deal with you. If you can give me any single reason why multiple crew satisfying one node made the player experience worse (or to put it another way: any reason to get rid of it besides the monetary interest in compelling players to spend dilithium for valor refreshes), then I will never bring up the subject again on this forum. I don't think you can do that, because I don't think there is any other reason to "fix" that except greed.
If you can do it, I'll reply with a hat tip and never bring it up again (and for the onlookers, if I don't reply, it's because Shan took away my ability to comment). If you can't do it, then I don't see how "the people in charge made a change that was motivated purely by greed" isn't a relevant form of feedback for the fleet boss battles feedback thread.
Is the purpose of this thread to make the fleet boss battles game mode more fun for players, or not? If it is, then describing a way that it's less fun than it used to be is exactly the type of comment you should be happy to see, and the type of change you should be eager to make.
I am not shy about voicing my displeasure about various decisions that have been made, especially since WRG took over, but I prefer the way the nodes work now and believe this is how it was intended. Letting a player use 4 seats to try and unlock a single node with 3 traits is ridiculous. I have more fun trying to uncover multiple nodes now on a single attack.
I have more fun trying to uncover multiple nodes now on a single attack.
But that's the thing, if you prefer to do it this way, you always could! It was always possible to use only the specific crew that was an exact match to unlock a node. Before they "fixed" it, you could play it the way that was most fun for you, and I could play it the way that was most fun for me. Now, you can play it the way that's most fun for you, and I can't. The change was purely subtractive, it didn't add anything. It didn't make it more fun for you, because you could already play it the way you're playing it now. It only made the game mode less fun for me, that's all.
I think the rewards might need looking at. I found myself at the Rubicon today. I have Kemosite, but not enough Mag.
I think I'm going to have to do some stats and see what the optimum route is. There will be some debate with the captains and, then, a decision. I know I'm not the only one in my fleet.
W.W. CarlislePlayed since January 20, 2019Captain Level- 99 (May 9, 2022)VIP 14Crew Quarters: 485/485Most recent/Lowest- Anbo-jyutsu Kyle Riker (1/5* Lvl 30) 5/29/23Immortalized x-866 5* x184, 4* x 490, 3* x91, 2* x62, and 1* x27Most recent Immortal - Tearful Janeway 4* 5/25/23Current non-event project- Improving my Science base skill. Retrieval Project- Mestral 1/5*
I have more fun trying to uncover multiple nodes now on a single attack.
But that's the thing, if you prefer to do it this way, you always could! It was always possible to use only the specific crew that was an exact match to unlock a node. Before they "fixed" it, you could play it the way that was most fun for you, and I could play it the way that was most fun for me. Now, you can play it the way that's most fun for you, and I can't. The change was purely subtractive, it didn't add anything. It didn't make it more fun for you, because you could already play it the way you're playing it now. It only made the game mode less fun for me, that's all.
The new feature accidentally didn't work as intended, and they fixed it. It's no different than away missions or expedition events - one crew member per each node and figure out the best team to beat the mission. They didn't correct the glitch to deliberately hurt players or even make it harder, let alone as an attempt to monetize it, that is just sour grapes.
They didn't correct the glitch to deliberately hurt players or even make it harder, let alone as an attempt to monetize it, that is just sour grapes.
The only thing that correcting the "glitch" does literally is making it harder for players. How is it sour grapes to think that the only result of an action is the reason they did the action?
And I would add that the last Server Release Notes message (9/13) said there was an "issue" with FBB where a buff is "currently being misapplied, allowing the player to survive the attack longer than intended," so you're just ignoring the explicit statement of WRG itself if you think they wouldn't "fix" something purely to make FBB harder.
Let's move on from: this was much better when multiple crew could satisfy one combo node, please
This has been addressed, it's not going to change. It's how the feature was designed, and balanced around.
Let's move on from how the people in charge decided to make the game less fun for players so they could make a little more money? Yeah, I can see how you wouldn't want someone bringing that up.
Here, I'll make a deal with you. If you can give me any single reason why multiple crew satisfying one node made the player experience worse (or to put it another way: any reason to get rid of it besides the monetary interest in compelling players to spend dilithium for valor refreshes), then I will never bring up the subject again on this forum. I don't think you can do that, because I don't think there is any other reason to "fix" that except greed.
If you can do it, I'll reply with a hat tip and never bring it up again (and for the onlookers, if I don't reply, it's because Shan took away my ability to comment). If you can't do it, then I don't see how "the people in charge made a change that was motivated purely by greed" isn't a relevant form of feedback for the fleet boss battles feedback thread.
Is the purpose of this thread to make the fleet boss battles game mode more fun for players, or not? If it is, then describing a way that it's less fun than it used to be is exactly the type of comment you should be happy to see, and the type of change you should be eager to make.
This is the last time that I will be addressing this, and yes if it is brought up again it will result in the removal of your ability to comment on our forums.
Providing feedback is welcome, your feedback was acknowledged and replied to.
Continuously bringing up the same point is now disruptive, even more so as it comes with bad assumptions.
You do not want to believe that it was indeed a bug that needed to be fixed, that's your choice.
It is not, and never was, about making it harder, less fun for players.
Features in the game do indeed have monetization avenues, that is how we keep the game running, they are however not mandatory.
Can anyone point me to a fairly detailed cost to level chart for the Bridge. As in cost per upgrade per level. All I know is I need 23 more mag than I have to get my next one. I have a Kemosite, but not enough Mag and wanted to get an idea of how much I need to keep up.
W.W. CarlislePlayed since January 20, 2019Captain Level- 99 (May 9, 2022)VIP 14Crew Quarters: 485/485Most recent/Lowest- Anbo-jyutsu Kyle Riker (1/5* Lvl 30) 5/29/23Immortalized x-866 5* x184, 4* x 490, 3* x91, 2* x62, and 1* x27Most recent Immortal - Tearful Janeway 4* 5/25/23Current non-event project- Improving my Science base skill. Retrieval Project- Mestral 1/5*
It is not, and never was, about making it harder, less fun for players.
Then you should want to know that this is a result it did end up having! If making the game harder and less fun for players was an unintended consequence of that change, why is everyone trying to aggressively shout down the person who's providing feedback that it did have such a result?
Continuously bringing up the same point is now disruptive
Every single comment I've made since my first recent comment has only been responding to other people who disagreed with something I said previously. It's not like I'm commenting "9/13 - Fleet battles is still less fun." "9/14 - Fleet battles is still less fun." "9/15 - Fleet battles is still less fun." That would be what "continuously bringing up the same point" would look like. All I'm doing is continuing to have a discussion, in a discussion forum. I'm not spamming, I'm not instigating, I'm just responding (to people who act like I'm somehow objectively wrong for having my own preferences of what makes the game fun for me).
If you want to ban me for that, it will tell me quite a lot about what WRG is really looking for with their "feedback." If you don't ban me for that, I frankly think I need to just stop working on nodes entirely because it's too frustrating for me, so the likelihood is that I won't ever bring it up again, except if someone else replies to something I previously wrote and continues the discussion. Isn't that the whole point of a discussion board?
For what it's worth, I think the current level of difficulty for solving nodes is appropiate. I was against removing the possibility to use multiple crew to combine their traits and solve a node, but given that they have permanently limited the possible traits to 18, instead of 24 or whatever, I think it has balanced out.
but let's just get back to how irritatingly difficult it is for a medium-sized fleet to defeat Brutal compared to Hard. We can do Hard in less than half the time required, but only really manage Brutal if we get free additional Valor.
The difficulty balance is just off ... Nightmare and Ultra being for the elite fleets is fine
If Nightmare would give say 1 Bilitrium at 50% destruction then that would be okay, we could just farm that for a bit to advance the Captain's Bridge (very slowly) through lvl 7 ... as it is ugh.
Now, I have no idea how many additional lvls we can get only through Brutal ... but I hope it is more than just 1. I haven't bothered to look up how fleet boss battles work, or what the Captain's Bridge rewards are ... and can be bothered to wade through 37 pages of the above style of discussion (sheesh).
Has there been any discussion about the suggested crew list cover the side of the trait list and the list including crew whose trait(s) has already been greyed out? One or the other would probably be okay, but, if it is a long list, you keep having to open and close it to check the traits beneath.
Had a couple fleet mates test someone from the list, not realizing a needed trait was greyed out under the window. I'm blanking on if the list goes back to the top every time it opens. I usually refer to a screenshot open on a synced second device, so I don't worry about that as much. (The cat waking me a 430 with a mouse in my bed didn't help my memory.)
We're certainly enjoying it so far, there's just a few kinks, like balancing and display, that need some tweaking.
W.W. CarlislePlayed since January 20, 2019Captain Level- 99 (May 9, 2022)VIP 14Crew Quarters: 485/485Most recent/Lowest- Anbo-jyutsu Kyle Riker (1/5* Lvl 30) 5/29/23Immortalized x-866 5* x184, 4* x 490, 3* x91, 2* x62, and 1* x27Most recent Immortal - Tearful Janeway 4* 5/25/23Current non-event project- Improving my Science base skill. Retrieval Project- Mestral 1/5*
Comments
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For the first time since I started doing Nightmare I am actually stymied by the component we get from every Battle......
Felt kind of weird.
Thanks Ben!
But it looks to me as though the only way to get the final tier (and thus the full completion bonus) is to spend dil, and thus it becomes something close to "buy one, get one free" for Valor if you do choose to spend that dil. As far as I can remember, all previous OEs have been possible (even if challenging) to finish without dil, so this does feel like a bit of a change (and one I would consider negative).
Would love to know if I have a) miscalculated, b) missed something that says this is going to last longer than the standard 48 hrs or c) there's going to be another 10-valor pack in the Honor Hall, which would change things.
You haven't miscalculated. This would be the equivalent of play 30 arena matches to win 5 arena tokens. No win requirement, but play more than is possible without buying extra tickets. And then the only reward is even more tickets.
There is no skill, there is no challenge, just simple spend Dil to finish. And no real reward for it either.
Being able to unlock nodes with multiple crew makes fleet boss battles more fun, dynamic, and strategic. It's just better, by every possible paradigm except the one that asks "what might induce players to spend more dilithium on valor refreshes"?
The more recent update to FBB with the buffs and such made some legitimately positive changes, but I still can't get it out of mind how nakedly greedy that earlier "fix" was.
We would like a better way to leave suggestions though. I listed the four possible crew for the last node and a player asked about it two hours later. He couldn't see them in chat.
Could we make the crew list ignore greyed out traits? It covers part of the trait list and, even if it isn't viable with the trait greyed out, crew are still showing as possible. That's a good way to waste Merits and Valor. Something for 9.2 maybe?
It wasn't. It was fairly common traits that no one else happened to have in that particular combination.
Unfortunately, I got to experience firsthand how much more fun it was the other way.
I'm a walking encyclopedia (Asperger's at work and play, so I will admit to lacking social skills), so I've been my fleet's go to for trait, skill, variants, et c. long before Retrieval made it so easy to do it yourself. Before the suggested crew list covered the Vault, I worked out the possibilities for nodes with a whiteboard and screenshot of the trait list. I posted them to chat and we went from there.
That is my specialty. It's how I contribute. My quarters is nearly all golds, but we have a handful of players that are new enough to use those low rarity crew daily. They are our secret weapons. That is why I wanted rewards for all the participants. They did more for us clearing nodes than anyone and were getting nothing for it! They weren't clearing the minimum on Normal, but when I put out a call for 2* Leeta or Thomas Riker, these were the ones that answered. There are some fleets that would have booted those players, from what I understand.
The purpose of FBB was to give Fleets a joint task, a very Star Trek thing really, and my fleet plays as a fleet. I was made Admiral by our Founding Admiral and he doesn't want it back. I asked. So I coordinate. That's what I do best. That's me with my Kindle, a pen, and scrap paper at Wal-Mart working out a possibiles list to post. Our senior players, the Officers, deal damage and, sometimes clear a node or two. The rest, our junior captains, are our problem solvers, our node clearers, and I give them all the credit they are due. We will work at things until we get them and we will get them.
It was a mistake that made the game more fun (for the people who did know about it, and didn't make the game less fun for those who didn't), and the one and only possible reason they could have for taking it away was prioritizing profit over player experience. Sorry if I have a little trouble moving on from that.
That's cool, I'm in a similar boat. But imagine if, once you figured out all the possibilities for a node, you could make the further contribution of figuring out the smallest possible number of crew that could cover the largest possible number of traits. Instead of "here are the twelve crew that might be matches for these nodes," it could be "here are four crew that could cover ten of those different possibilities, now let me see if I can find a combination of four crew that could cover eleven!" You wouldn't have to worry as much about people working on nodes getting nothing for it (which is still an issue with losing out on Magnesite even though they will get the boss destruction rewards now) if the fleet could spend fewer attacks clearing nodes, because you cleverly figured out a way to cover a large number of traits with a small number of crew.
That's what we're missing out on now, because the people in charge decided to "fix" an unintended element of the game which had absolutely no negative impacts except helping people spend less dilithium.
This has been addressed, it's not going to change. It's how the feature was designed, and balanced around.
As we're playing Hard to build everyone up, it's 4* and below. I have every crew in that pool except four, all purple- Ensign Picard, Roy Ritterhouse, the Data for tomorrow and the new Boimler for next week. That means my crew list shows everyone that could work. I have a list with those missing four's traits to refer to. I also know who in my fleet has who I don't and can cover that gap. I currently have nine "flex" slots, with 36 in overflow, for holding low rarity crew to use and discard for FBB. If need be, I can airlock extras and thaw nearly anyone we might need and I do that when I need to. I purple chase on Tuesday and it has been very useful since we reached Hard in the FBB.
My fleet has a lot of in and out players, so I do the strategy. I know the pool. I'm usually online to coordinate. We've had players pop in, load seats off my list, clear an entire chain in one go, and pop out until they have Valor again. That works for us.
I work from home as my own boss. It's a luxury I have. Work on the new chicken house with my Kindle running Timelines next to my tool bag. Check. Monitor progress while working on that research project. All the time. Now, I'm off to feed for a couple hours. The gang gets my full attention.
Let's move on from how the people in charge decided to make the game less fun for players so they could make a little more money? Yeah, I can see how you wouldn't want someone bringing that up.
Here, I'll make a deal with you. If you can give me any single reason why multiple crew satisfying one node made the player experience worse (or to put it another way: any reason to get rid of it besides the monetary interest in compelling players to spend dilithium for valor refreshes), then I will never bring up the subject again on this forum. I don't think you can do that, because I don't think there is any other reason to "fix" that except greed.
If you can do it, I'll reply with a hat tip and never bring it up again (and for the onlookers, if I don't reply, it's because Shan took away my ability to comment). If you can't do it, then I don't see how "the people in charge made a change that was motivated purely by greed" isn't a relevant form of feedback for the fleet boss battles feedback thread.
Is the purpose of this thread to make the fleet boss battles game mode more fun for players, or not? If it is, then describing a way that it's less fun than it used to be is exactly the type of comment you should be happy to see, and the type of change you should be eager to make.
Comment moderated. ~Shan It has nothing to do with your game experience but with:
It's how the feature was designed, and balanced around.
Comment moderated. ~Shan
Time to move on.
Everything they introduced in the most recent update was a deviation from how the feature was designed and balanced. You expect me to believe the new buffs don't throw off the balance at all? And yet, they made those changes anyway (and I commended them for it) because the goal is to make the feature more fun than what they had in mind when they started. If it wasn't, then what's the point of even having a feedback thread at all? If we're pretending like making the game mode more like the way it was originally designed is a good reason to make it less fun, then this thread shouldn't even be here, because any feedback at all is entirely contrary to the goal of making sure the original design is dogmatically preserved and set in stone, no matter how much fun is sacrificed in the process.
snip due to moderation of the post quoted. ~Shan
It seems very clear to me that whoever made that particular decision is greedy, but that doesn't mean everyone at WRG is. If every decision they made was motivated by greed like this, Timelines would be a very different game (which I probably would've given up on a long time ago). If I believe that there are people working for WRG who care more about player experience than profit, then I want to give those people every chance to hear about how a decision was made that elevated profit over player experience. My goal is for Timelines to be a game that a lot of people enjoy playing, not a cheap cash grab. What is your problem with that goal?
snip due to moderation of the post quoted. ~Shan
As long as the game continues to be less fun for me than it used to be, I will continue to have feedback for them about what would make it more fun. Why are you opposed to them making it more fun for players like me?
Move on to what, a different game? As long as I'm continuing to play Timelines, and continuing to play Fleet Boss Battles because I want the Timelines rewards that it provides, how am I supposed to move on from the persistent awareness that they rushed to make a change to that game mode which had no effect except to make it less fun for people like me? How can I continue attacking bosses and unlocking nodes without being constantly reminded how much more enjoyable it used to be before they raced to eliminate an accidental feature that didn't make the game mode unstable or buggy in any way? Tell me how I'm supposed to move on from that while continuing to play this game.
And if you can't tell me that, then tell me how the long-term sustainability of Star Trek Timelines is improved by players like me getting frustrated at their greed and leaving? Unless your goal is for this game's player base to slowly dwindle away until it has to be shut down, then I don't see how this surely helps your goal either.
Yes, I am angry, but that's only because I like this game and I want it to continue being fun. If you want Star Trek Timelines to continue being fun and not be taken over by design choices that are motivated by greed, then you and I have the same goal. If you want Star Trek Timelines to continue being fun, then you should want passionate players to express what would make the game more fun for them. You shouldn't want me to be quietly resentful until I eventually decide to just give up and play a different game.
Is this a feedback thread, or a cheerleading thread? If it's the former, then you shouldn't feel so threatened by negative feedback.
Unless there is some crazy infinite build out there, if players are putting in the resources to lvl the necessaty ships to 10, and acquire the necessary crew to pilot them, AND putting in the time to have a deep enough roster to controlibute to the challenge nodes, then i think it is ver very unsettling that the developers are prioritizing a NERF instead of fixing the other issues that have been repeated again and again in this thread.
The fleet boss battle objective event challenge seems like another market pulse check to see how much more they can squeeze from people.
But the other troubling thing (and this is probably for another thread) is that this weeks tier one will be next weeks tier 3 at the rate that they are pumping out new crew. They are going to strain the deep core of the player base too far with this impulse buying/competing model that they are falling into.
Overall i really like fbb alot, but i obviously have some concerns
I am not shy about voicing my displeasure about various decisions that have been made, especially since WRG took over, but I prefer the way the nodes work now and believe this is how it was intended. Letting a player use 4 seats to try and unlock a single node with 3 traits is ridiculous. I have more fun trying to uncover multiple nodes now on a single attack.
Why? What, in the context of the Star Trek universe, is ridiculous about multiple crew members working together to solve a problem?
But that's the thing, if you prefer to do it this way, you always could! It was always possible to use only the specific crew that was an exact match to unlock a node. Before they "fixed" it, you could play it the way that was most fun for you, and I could play it the way that was most fun for me. Now, you can play it the way that's most fun for you, and I can't. The change was purely subtractive, it didn't add anything. It didn't make it more fun for you, because you could already play it the way you're playing it now. It only made the game mode less fun for me, that's all.
I think I'm going to have to do some stats and see what the optimum route is. There will be some debate with the captains and, then, a decision. I know I'm not the only one in my fleet.
The new feature accidentally didn't work as intended, and they fixed it. It's no different than away missions or expedition events - one crew member per each node and figure out the best team to beat the mission. They didn't correct the glitch to deliberately hurt players or even make it harder, let alone as an attempt to monetize it, that is just sour grapes.
The only thing that correcting the "glitch" does literally is making it harder for players. How is it sour grapes to think that the only result of an action is the reason they did the action?
And I would add that the last Server Release Notes message (9/13) said there was an "issue" with FBB where a buff is "currently being misapplied, allowing the player to survive the attack longer than intended," so you're just ignoring the explicit statement of WRG itself if you think they wouldn't "fix" something purely to make FBB harder.
This is the last time that I will be addressing this, and yes if it is brought up again it will result in the removal of your ability to comment on our forums.
Providing feedback is welcome, your feedback was acknowledged and replied to.
Continuously bringing up the same point is now disruptive, even more so as it comes with bad assumptions.
You do not want to believe that it was indeed a bug that needed to be fixed, that's your choice.
It is not, and never was, about making it harder, less fun for players.
Features in the game do indeed have monetization avenues, that is how we keep the game running, they are however not mandatory.
If by "acknowledged," you mean WRG did the exact opposite, then sure.
Then you should want to know that this is a result it did end up having! If making the game harder and less fun for players was an unintended consequence of that change, why is everyone trying to aggressively shout down the person who's providing feedback that it did have such a result?
Every single comment I've made since my first recent comment has only been responding to other people who disagreed with something I said previously. It's not like I'm commenting "9/13 - Fleet battles is still less fun." "9/14 - Fleet battles is still less fun." "9/15 - Fleet battles is still less fun." That would be what "continuously bringing up the same point" would look like. All I'm doing is continuing to have a discussion, in a discussion forum. I'm not spamming, I'm not instigating, I'm just responding (to people who act like I'm somehow objectively wrong for having my own preferences of what makes the game fun for me).
If you want to ban me for that, it will tell me quite a lot about what WRG is really looking for with their "feedback." If you don't ban me for that, I frankly think I need to just stop working on nodes entirely because it's too frustrating for me, so the likelihood is that I won't ever bring it up again, except if someone else replies to something I previously wrote and continues the discussion. Isn't that the whole point of a discussion board?
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Captain Zombie's Combo chain calculator
Right? Isn't that how this works?
It is, and it was determined that it didn't hurt the balance to switch to 18.
but let's just get back to how irritatingly difficult it is for a medium-sized fleet to defeat Brutal compared to Hard. We can do Hard in less than half the time required, but only really manage Brutal if we get free additional Valor.
The difficulty balance is just off ... Nightmare and Ultra being for the elite fleets is fine
If Nightmare would give say 1 Bilitrium at 50% destruction then that would be okay, we could just farm that for a bit to advance the Captain's Bridge (very slowly) through lvl 7 ... as it is ugh.
Now, I have no idea how many additional lvls we can get only through Brutal ... but I hope it is more than just 1. I haven't bothered to look up how fleet boss battles work, or what the Captain's Bridge rewards are ... and can be bothered to wade through 37 pages of the above style of discussion (sheesh).
Had a couple fleet mates test someone from the list, not realizing a needed trait was greyed out under the window. I'm blanking on if the list goes back to the top every time it opens. I usually refer to a screenshot open on a synced second device, so I don't worry about that as much. (The cat waking me a 430 with a mouse in my bed didn't help my memory.)
We're certainly enjoying it so far, there's just a few kinks, like balancing and display, that need some tweaking.