Took me a couple of messages with Mr DownAtTheAltarOfRNGJesus before I got a Dilithium refund from them. No boosts though.
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I honestly don't see a problem with changing Yar, cards also get buffed from time to time, I think one thing we can all agree on is:
That the nerf was too much, and therefore needs moderating to a more suitable statistic broadly in line with other similar Legendary cards. I can't see anyone complaining that they have taken into consideration players feelings and acted in an appropriate manner to right at least one wrong.
The people who have been refunded by either means, they have made their beds and are now lying in it. They really can't complain as they have committed themselves down a path, and at least have the consolation they got resolution to the matter (whether it was pleasant or not it's resolution), whether there can be a reversion process for them who knows, however mediation I think should still be possible on that front. One thing this has taught me is don't burn your bridges and be patient.
Secondly, the reason i didn't seek compensation is how could I start to unravel the time taken, the boosts use the additional cadet mission purchases for boosts - some used some not , how many packs I opened to try and get both Yar and Ross - Do I really want to lose my star on Ross? I didn't get Yar in Packs (only threshold) but I still tried for her by buying these packs - how would they go about the compensation on this?
I just felt it's both tenuous and tedious to try and discuss what the solution to a refund would be and I feel correcting Yar is the more honorable thing to do.
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I get the sense that they are a little paralysed at the moment. As in, they are thinking, "We couldn't possibly change her again. Look at the uproar it caused last time!" But I think they can, and they should change her again. Not fully unnerfed, but just put her where the nerf was supposed to have put her: less OP, but still useful.
There is a chance another change could upset a minority of players. ("I've just returned my copy for a refund!") But the majority would welcome it, I think... and it would go a little way towards showing that DB does, in fact, listen to concerns.
A "minority of players"? Good grief, all due respect but I think you greatly underestimate the amount of consternation this would cause. It would only exacerbate the uproar amongst a lot of players, I'm certain. (Not that DB would ever consider doing this in the first place.)
Actually I think it would be a good solution. It might have some short term consternation, but I think the long term benefit to their rep would be less negative than currently. However the longer this goes on and the more refund/ban fiascos we have...
Couldn't 25,000 Honor per star, granted for every star earned (kept, dismissed, refunded regardless) be sent out as a gesture / apologize ?
It's reasonable.
Its all im asking for and I think reasonable is all any of us in the Yar-tarring would expect. Reasonable.
Cheap, I would say, based on DB's previous actions. People who received a free Mirror Picard got to exchange him for 50,000 honor. People who spent 18,000 honor per citation for Voyage-exclusive crew only got 18,000 honor per citation for free (no exchange, even), because those were only super-rares.
It's DB's own system: 50,000 honor for a Legendary.
I expected them to send out 50K honor within the first few days, and leave us complaining about the wasted leveling resources and dishonest pack sales. I never imagined we'd reach a situation like this.
I can only reiterate that this needs to be dealt with via tickets.
However, I have talked this over with the Manager of Support. I brought up the concerns about the proposals that were presented to players dissatisfied with Polywater Yar changes and about some inconsistencies in how this is/was handled.
The conclusion is that the right calls regarding those tickets were not always made and the goal is now to rectify this.
Please allow us the time to do just that.
If you had given up on your ticket, please reopen it or submit it again.
Contact me by PM with your ticket number if it has not been escalated so we can keep track and keep it centralized.
Keep in mind that escalation does not mean that your request will be automatically granted.
But as I said, we want to make sure you receive a fair proposal. On that note I also want to remind everyone that we cannot refund without removing the related content the refund applies to.
Thanks Shan for the update. I have personally not filed a ticket but have been watching this thread but at least people have a route through you if they are not happy with the current response or ticket.
If you had given up on your ticket, please reopen it or submit it again.
Contact me by PM with your ticket number if it has not been escalated so we can keep track and keep it centralized.
Shan, we've been told time and again how we here on the forum represent only a tiny, insignificant part of the player base.
How, exactly, are the players who don't frequent the forum supposed to know to reopen tickets which have been closed?
Or is this another method DB is using to make sure this blows over with as little effort on their part as possible? After all, they don't have to deal with tickets which are never reopened, if people don't know to reopen them.
I can only reiterate that this needs to be dealt with via tickets.
However, I have talked this over with the Manager of Support. I brought up the concerns about the proposals that were presented to players dissatisfied with Polywater Yar changes and about some inconsistencies in how this is/was handled.
The conclusion is that the right calls regarding those tickets were not always made and the goal is now to rectify this.
Please allow us the time to do just that.
If you had given up on your ticket, please reopen it or submit it again.
Contact me by PM with your ticket number if it has not been escalated so we can keep track and keep it centralized.
Keep in mind that escalation does not mean that your request will be automatically granted.
But as I said, we want to make sure you receive a fair proposal. On that note I also want to remind everyone that we cannot refund without removing the related content the refund applies to.
Thank you!
What are the acceptable proposal?
There should be a common resolution that’s best to be announced publicly.
People buying packs get refunded. Ok
How about people that work their asses to top 1k?
Can we exchange it to legendary citation?
I honestly don't even know how to proceed at this point. It's been weeks now, and I've grown used to seeing Yar in my crew quarters. She doesn't do anything except remind me to not spend money, but she's been rather good at her job so far, and I've grown used to playing without spending. I don't think I'd be willing to part with her at this point. I would feel like I'm losing part of myself.
It's been nearly a month and we've had nothing but BAD customer service from tickets and escalations, so I don't know what is going to be different this week. But then with the Mirror Picard they didn't help at all through tickets and then they changed the policy a few days later so you just had to open the tickets again and get the correct compensation.
This is slightly different as they now need to cover the original problems plus a month of BAD customer service! Plus unban all those accounts that correctly took a refund for undelivered content! How has db managed to dig this hole for themselves?! lol
Lol I forgot she was there. She doesn't do anything much. Should I keep her in case they do a rerun with Aviator Yar, who actually is good?
Aviator Yar wasn't winnable in the first event, only the rerun, so I suspect she'll be moved again if there's a rererun (have we had any of those yet?). Polywater Yar has such low stats that I'm going to take the 50,000 Honor and get that crew slot back.
Besides, when was the last rerun? Second week of July? I wonder if they've been done away with altogether!
Ah. I had given up on this thread and limited my time on the forums and game more generally. Seems like I missed some action. Good to know that @Shan is finally on the case and something might happen. Thanks to @R2-EQ for telling me about the update.
I will reopen the ticket and PM @Shan the details. I really hope they have this sorted. The worst will be jumping through hoops again only to be told **** ***!!!
Ah. I had given up on this thread and limited my time on the forums and game more generally. Seems like I missed some action. Good to know that @Shan is finally on the case and something might happen. Thanks to @R2-EQ for telling me about the update.
I will reopen the ticket and PM @Shan the details. I really hope they have this sorted. The worst will be jumping through hoops again only to be told **** ***!!!
I requested escalation a few days back. Day after Shan's message I got confirmation it would be escalated but haven't heard back from the elevated level yet. Will it time out while I'm awaiting the higher person to take over ? Should I bump it every 2&1/2 days so it doesn't close at 3 ? It just sit on my butt and wait with no worries ?
(I can't remember having escalated before)
Ah. I had given up on this thread and limited my time on the forums and game more generally. Seems like I missed some action. Good to know that @Shan is finally on the case and something might happen. Thanks to @R2-EQ for telling me about the update.
I will reopen the ticket and PM @Shan the details. I really hope they have this sorted. The worst will be jumping through hoops again only to be told **** ***!!!
I requested escalation a few days back. Day after Shan's message I got confirmation it would be escalated but haven't heard back from the elevated level yet. Will it time out while I'm awaiting the higher person to take over ? Should I bump it every 2&1/2 days so it doesn't close at 3 ? It just sit on my butt and wait with no worries ?
(I can't remember having escalated before)
I have escalated a few times, and they typically will get back to you in about 1-3 days or so, but with all the problems, there are probably a number of escalations they are dealing with... You’ve got five days before the ticket automatically closes typically, so bump it before then...
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Immortalized: 140 x 5*, 221 x 4*, 74 x 3*, 47 x 2*, 27 x 1*
I dropped my ticket with CS a week or two ago and won’t be re-opening it.
I am curious to see how DB put this right openly and transparently.
I’m hoping for a game wide apology and gesture of honor (or something useful). My instinct tells me that after several weeks, “re-submit your tickets for reconsideration please” is about as proactive as we’ll get. Contrary to recent messages from Shan (thanks for keeping us up to date though!).
Its amazing that this issue will simply not go away. I dont mean the fact that some Yar customers remain unsatisfied with their compensation, if any, from DB. I mean the sheer amount of time DB is taking to resolve this issue. Polywater Yar debuted August 8. She was nerfed shortly after the event. Four weeks of indignant, unhappy customers....and still being told to be patient as cases are resolved on an INDIVIDUAL basis. That really means that if you havent made a peep, you won't get a dime. The right thing to have done immediately (ie a few days after the mess) was a GLOBAL solution. All the honor they just refunded for Voyager crew...that was a GLOBAL solution (change). Why is this issue being handled on an individual basis? One word: money.
I'll write more later, but my escalation gave the same old tired injustice along with the same old incompetence (referring to a "graph" that they forgot to attach) [Edit: no, they didn't forget to attach a graph - sorry for any confusion. Actually, they referred to one in my link and then contradicted their own point about it] and the same old point-ignoring.
Whether Shan was intentionally wasting my time with this ridiculous escalation, or accidentally wasting it, the effect has been the same.
Another layer of the stupid onion peeled. Another layer of idiocy revealed.
Thankfully another forum member has offered some help to me in taking this issue elsewhere. If nothing has happened by Thursday, after 28 days of time-wasting and incompetence from DB, their time is up.
DB made a mistake. They failed to understand how Polywater Yar's ship properties would distort the playing field too much. They should have foreseen this possibility as their business is issuing these characters, and they have issued hundreds of them without incident. DB significantly diminished the value of Polywater Yar after they sold them. Rest assured that buried in their Terms of Service is full indemnity for them to modify any element of the game, and keep your money.
Why the outrage?
DB knows that they have done wrong. Indeed, they are acutely aware that their survival as a company is fully dependent upon the continued goodwill - and purchases - of their customers.
DB, though, is not interested in giving its dissatisfied customers their money back. Are they entitled to a refund? Of course. However, refunding money is a precedent that DB does not want to establish.
If they refund Polywater Yar, you can be assured that a future, "overpowered/then nerfed" Xindi Whale Character would create the same clamor for refunds, and take more cash from their pockets
So they hope to keep your dough and ultimately...if stalling the issue doesnt work....with some combination of trinkets that exceed the value of Polywater Yar to unhappy customers, close this issue.
Until the next time.
I'll write more later, but my escalation gave the same old tired injustice along with the same old incompetence (referring to a "graph" that they forgot to attach) and the same old point-ignoring.
Whether Shan was intentionally wasting my time with this ridiculous escalation, or accidentally wasting it, the effect has been the same.
Another layer of the stupid onion peeled. Another layer of idiocy revealed.
Thankfully another forum member has offered some help to me in taking this issue elsewhere. If nothing has happened by Thursday, after 28 days of time-wasting and incompetence from DB, their time is up.
I've heard something similar from someone else... they were offered the same thing by the new rep as they were before, plus some trite amount of credits. I dunno, I want to believe they'll do the right thing, but I hate being in limbo this long.
My Yars are still unfused, which pushes them to the top of the default sort in my crew quarters. They'll sit there until this is resolved, I guess.
...along with the same old incompetence (referring to a "graph" that they forgot to attach)
Looking at this on my computer instead of my phone, I see they were referring to a graph from a link I provided - I'm sorry, they weren't incompetent in failing to provide a graph.
I'm not allowed to quote directly, of course, but they used the graph to say that I'm confused, and it costs a different amount of Chronitons to immortalize Polywater Yar than to get all of her equipment. They then say that if I look at the equipment numbers... they're the same...
Well of course they are. Chronitons are used for equipment. Not for leveling or fusing. The amount of Chronitons needed to immortalize should be the same as the amount of Chronitons needed to get all of the equipment. Trainers (not Chronitons) are needed for levels, and further card copies (not Chronitons) are needed for fusing.
The funny thing is, I wasn't using the Polywater Yar page to extort Chronitons. I told her exactly that I'd accept whatever Chronitons she gave me for the equipment and the bad customer service, just to get this sorry situation resolved.
Have I missed something? Am I the idiot here? It takes the same amount of Chronitons to complete a 1/5 character as a 5/5 character, right? And Chronitons cannot be used for leveling - only Trainers?
I'll write more later, but my escalation gave the same old tired injustice along with the same old incompetence (referring to a "graph" that they forgot to attach) and the same old point-ignoring.
Whether Shan was intentionally wasting my time with this ridiculous escalation, or accidentally wasting it, the effect has been the same.
Another layer of the stupid onion peeled. Another layer of idiocy revealed.
Thankfully another forum member has offered some help to me in taking this issue elsewhere. If nothing has happened by Thursday, after 28 days of time-wasting and incompetence from DB, their time is up.
When was your last reply from them ?
Today ?
Since the "try again, it'll be better" message ?
Comments
https://forum.disruptorbeam.com/stt/discussion/5023/qh-the-oldest-fleet-in-timelines-l91-starbase-daily-targets-met
That the nerf was too much, and therefore needs moderating to a more suitable statistic broadly in line with other similar Legendary cards. I can't see anyone complaining that they have taken into consideration players feelings and acted in an appropriate manner to right at least one wrong.
The people who have been refunded by either means, they have made their beds and are now lying in it. They really can't complain as they have committed themselves down a path, and at least have the consolation they got resolution to the matter (whether it was pleasant or not it's resolution), whether there can be a reversion process for them who knows, however mediation I think should still be possible on that front. One thing this has taught me is don't burn your bridges and be patient.
Secondly, the reason i didn't seek compensation is how could I start to unravel the time taken, the boosts use the additional cadet mission purchases for boosts - some used some not , how many packs I opened to try and get both Yar and Ross - Do I really want to lose my star on Ross? I didn't get Yar in Packs (only threshold) but I still tried for her by buying these packs - how would they go about the compensation on this?
I just felt it's both tenuous and tedious to try and discuss what the solution to a refund would be and I feel correcting Yar is the more honorable thing to do.
Actually I think it would be a good solution. It might have some short term consternation, but I think the long term benefit to their rep would be less negative than currently. However the longer this goes on and the more refund/ban fiascos we have...
It's reasonable.
Its all im asking for and I think reasonable is all any of us in the Yar-tarring would expect. Reasonable.
Cheap, I would say, based on DB's previous actions. People who received a free Mirror Picard got to exchange him for 50,000 honor. People who spent 18,000 honor per citation for Voyage-exclusive crew only got 18,000 honor per citation for free (no exchange, even), because those were only super-rares.
It's DB's own system: 50,000 honor for a Legendary.
I expected them to send out 50K honor within the first few days, and leave us complaining about the wasted leveling resources and dishonest pack sales. I never imagined we'd reach a situation like this.
We do have a response from DB... .submit a ticket, lol.
Not much of a response, but it is a response...
well I did... but to sum it up, the response is more like “not my problem. **tsk tsk** it up”
I can only reiterate that this needs to be dealt with via tickets.
However, I have talked this over with the Manager of Support. I brought up the concerns about the proposals that were presented to players dissatisfied with Polywater Yar changes and about some inconsistencies in how this is/was handled.
The conclusion is that the right calls regarding those tickets were not always made and the goal is now to rectify this.
Please allow us the time to do just that.
If you had given up on your ticket, please reopen it or submit it again.
Contact me by PM with your ticket number if it has not been escalated so we can keep track and keep it centralized.
Keep in mind that escalation does not mean that your request will be automatically granted.
But as I said, we want to make sure you receive a fair proposal. On that note I also want to remind everyone that we cannot refund without removing the related content the refund applies to.
Thank you!
This is more like the DB that I've been happy to give my business to.
(Friendly shoulder tapping)
I've never had a problem with mistakes as long as we can work together to make it right..
I look forward to CS's next reply.
Shan, we've been told time and again how we here on the forum represent only a tiny, insignificant part of the player base.
How, exactly, are the players who don't frequent the forum supposed to know to reopen tickets which have been closed?
Or is this another method DB is using to make sure this blows over with as little effort on their part as possible? After all, they don't have to deal with tickets which are never reopened, if people don't know to reopen them.
What are the acceptable proposal?
There should be a common resolution that’s best to be announced publicly.
People buying packs get refunded. Ok
How about people that work their asses to top 1k?
Can we exchange it to legendary citation?
This is slightly different as they now need to cover the original problems plus a month of BAD customer service! Plus unban all those accounts that correctly took a refund for undelivered content! How has db managed to dig this hole for themselves?! lol
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Aviator Yar wasn't winnable in the first event, only the rerun, so I suspect she'll be moved again if there's a rererun (have we had any of those yet?). Polywater Yar has such low stats that I'm going to take the 50,000 Honor and get that crew slot back.
Besides, when was the last rerun? Second week of July? I wonder if they've been done away with altogether!
I will reopen the ticket and PM @Shan the details. I really hope they have this sorted. The worst will be jumping through hoops again only to be told **** ***!!!
I requested escalation a few days back. Day after Shan's message I got confirmation it would be escalated but haven't heard back from the elevated level yet. Will it time out while I'm awaiting the higher person to take over ? Should I bump it every 2&1/2 days so it doesn't close at 3 ? It just sit on my butt and wait with no worries ?
(I can't remember having escalated before)
I have escalated a few times, and they typically will get back to you in about 1-3 days or so, but with all the problems, there are probably a number of escalations they are dealing with... You’ve got five days before the ticket automatically closes typically, so bump it before then...
Immortalized: 140 x 5*, 221 x 4*, 74 x 3*, 47 x 2*, 27 x 1*
There is no need to bump an open ticket, it will not time out.
Noted, thank you
I am curious to see how DB put this right openly and transparently.
I’m hoping for a game wide apology and gesture of honor (or something useful). My instinct tells me that after several weeks, “re-submit your tickets for reconsideration please” is about as proactive as we’ll get. Contrary to recent messages from Shan (thanks for keeping us up to date though!).
Whether Shan was intentionally wasting my time with this ridiculous escalation, or accidentally wasting it, the effect has been the same.
Another layer of the stupid onion peeled. Another layer of idiocy revealed.
Thankfully another forum member has offered some help to me in taking this issue elsewhere. If nothing has happened by Thursday, after 28 days of time-wasting and incompetence from DB, their time is up.
Why the outrage?
DB knows that they have done wrong. Indeed, they are acutely aware that their survival as a company is fully dependent upon the continued goodwill - and purchases - of their customers.
DB, though, is not interested in giving its dissatisfied customers their money back. Are they entitled to a refund? Of course. However, refunding money is a precedent that DB does not want to establish.
If they refund Polywater Yar, you can be assured that a future, "overpowered/then nerfed" Xindi Whale Character would create the same clamor for refunds, and take more cash from their pockets
So they hope to keep your dough and ultimately...if stalling the issue doesnt work....with some combination of trinkets that exceed the value of Polywater Yar to unhappy customers, close this issue.
Until the next time.
I've heard something similar from someone else... they were offered the same thing by the new rep as they were before, plus some trite amount of credits. I dunno, I want to believe they'll do the right thing, but I hate being in limbo this long.
My Yars are still unfused, which pushes them to the top of the default sort in my crew quarters. They'll sit there until this is resolved, I guess.
Looking at this on my computer instead of my phone, I see they were referring to a graph from a link I provided - I'm sorry, they weren't incompetent in failing to provide a graph.
I'm not allowed to quote directly, of course, but they used the graph to say that I'm confused, and it costs a different amount of Chronitons to immortalize Polywater Yar than to get all of her equipment. They then say that if I look at the equipment numbers... they're the same...
Well of course they are. Chronitons are used for equipment. Not for leveling or fusing. The amount of Chronitons needed to immortalize should be the same as the amount of Chronitons needed to get all of the equipment. Trainers (not Chronitons) are needed for levels, and further card copies (not Chronitons) are needed for fusing.
The funny thing is, I wasn't using the Polywater Yar page to extort Chronitons. I told her exactly that I'd accept whatever Chronitons she gave me for the equipment and the bad customer service, just to get this sorry situation resolved.
Have I missed something? Am I the idiot here? It takes the same amount of Chronitons to complete a 1/5 character as a 5/5 character, right? And Chronitons cannot be used for leveling - only Trainers?
When was your last reply from them ?
Today ?
Since the "try again, it'll be better" message ?