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Support for IamPicard App

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  • [S14] Bri wrote: »
    S31 wrote: »
    [S14] Bri wrote: »
    Picture the scene:
    5 mins left in gauntlet. Positions 1 and 2 are holding back to compete late and make a final push for first. Who would have the advantage of completing more battles in a shorter space of time, and therefore winning?

    Someone playing on the actual game? Or someone using Iampicard? If the answer is Iampicard, how can that be fair to people using the ACTUAL GAME? If there is no benefit in this instance, then I’d say use the app, it doesn’t matter at all. Voyage guidance won’t affect P2P directly. But if someone can be at a disadvantage using the gauntlet’s most common method for winning, then it’s definitely unfair.

    Nobody would have an advantage because in Gauntlet's final pushes you only have 5-7 chances for a battle and I am Picard doesn't guarantee a win.

    Someone using IamPicard in a final push could just knock out his entire Gauntlet platoon with 0 wins.

    Many people use dilithium at this point to refresh their crew. It’s a simple question, and I genuinely don’t know the answer because I haven’t used the app due to a bug with my ID I’m looking into.

    So which method would be faster in those dying minutes and seconds? The actual game, or Iampicard?

    To answer your question as much as I’m able, IAP might get you a second or two of time saved, if only by bypassing animations. It still comes down MUCH more to the quality of crew, RNG luck, and willingness to spend merits/dil than any trivial time savings.
  • Average GuyAverage Guy ✭✭✭✭
    I don't use the app so I have a question regarding DB approval. Has DB officially recognized it in the past or have a small number of CS agents recognized it and given it approval? If it's just CS agents, I wouldn't use this as acceptance by DB because the opinion of a CS agent is not official policy.

    DB has full right to evaluate the IAP software, especially if it accesses it's own software and it is used to bypass actual game play. I would think this would be against its terms of service if IAP bypassed the official STT software for Guantlet, voyages and anything else. Some players make not like this, but the game is what it is. If all the IAP users requested certain game changes in proper forum pages and CS tickets etc., I am sure DB would listen and improve as much as they could, as the number of voices would be significant. However, this doesn't change what the IAP software does, whether on a small or large scale, it bypasses the game play of the STT software in some instances.
  • 5000 Quatloos5000 Quatloos ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    [S14] Bri wrote: »
    S31 wrote: »
    [S14] Bri wrote: »
    Picture the scene:
    5 mins left in gauntlet. Positions 1 and 2 are holding back to compete late and make a final push for first. Who would have the advantage of completing more battles in a shorter space of time, and therefore winning?

    Someone playing on the actual game? Or someone using Iampicard? If the answer is Iampicard, how can that be fair to people using the ACTUAL GAME? If there is no benefit in this instance, then I’d say use the app, it doesn’t matter at all. Voyage guidance won’t affect P2P directly. But if someone can be at a disadvantage using the gauntlet’s most common method for winning, then it’s definitely unfair.

    Nobody would have an advantage because in Gauntlet's final pushes you only have 5-7 chances for a battle and I am Picard doesn't guarantee a win.

    Someone using IamPicard in a final push could just knock out his entire Gauntlet platoon with 0 wins.

    Many people use dilithium at this point to refresh their crew. It’s a simple question, and I genuinely don’t know the answer because I haven’t used the app due to a bug with my ID I’m looking into.

    So which method would be faster in those dying minutes and seconds? The actual game, or Iampicard?

    I think you are right, IAP users would have a slight statistical edge in that scenario. I wouldn't really know as I (and I think many of the IAP gauntlet users) are using it to grind rather than to achieve #1/2. At the end of the day, the Legendary drop rate is so infinitesimally small that the number of final boxes pulled hardly makes a difference. You'll either get him/her/it over your 6 months, or you won't, and optimizing the last 2 minutes to squeeze out the other meager rewards from a #1/2 position just isn't worth the effort. So after the first time you claim your Gauntlet #1 achievement (which as noted above will probably involve a dilithium refresh, a different and wholly sanctioned kind of "unfair"), it really doesn't matter.
    Accepted. Mark them, Galt.
  • Captain_WhoCaptain_Who ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    New to this whole thing. Is this an app you can use on phones or what?

    Web browser or Windows desktop. Also open source in node.js so you could compile for any *nix too. https://github.com/IAmPicard/StarTrekTimelinesSpreadsheet for the download and iampicard.com for the webpage. He's generously hosting this for free and only requests donations.


    I think you are right, IAP users would have a slight statistical edge in that scenario. I wouldn't really know as I (and I think many of the IAP gauntlet users) are using it to grind rather than to achieve #1/2. At the end of the day, the Legendary drop rate is so infinitesimally small that the number of final boxes pulled hardly makes a difference. You'll either get him/her/it over your 6 months, or you won't, and optimizing the last 2 minutes to squeeze out the other meager rewards from a #1/2 position just isn't worth the effort. So after the first time you claim your Gauntlet #1 achievement (which as noted above will probably involve a dilithium refresh, a different and wholly sanctioned kind of "unfair"), it really doesn't matter.

    Perhaps there's a small advantage in this instance, but it's nearly infinitesimal. You still get the same match-ups, for the same points, with the same chances for success. And if you're going tit-for-tat for #1, you're only getting 10 points a victory. And your crew still exhausts the same way. And you still have to pay for refreshes.

    In some ways you're disadvantaged because you lose the visual queues you get in the app. You don't see the loot you win, just get a readout that you have to look for. The sort is off so you can't swipe right or left to get the most/fewest points and evaluate to hit that or the next or next option. And the crew layout makes it harder to read exhaustion levels and plan for future matches. If you actually try to do all of these things in IAP, it would take longer per match than in the STT client.

    Either way, all you're given is a calculated chance for each match, something many discord bots do, as do many spreadsheets, and you still have to make a choice and initiate the action.

    Same to voyages, there are spreadsheets and bots that calculate your best crew for a voyage. This just reads your crew, you still decide if you take them and have to initiate the voyage.
    And if you want an estimation of time remaining, once you start to fail all your skill checks, just divide remaining AM by 22.
  • S14 Bri S14 Bri ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    New to this whole thing. Is this an app you can use on phones or what?

    Web browser or Windows desktop. Also open source in node.js so you could compile for any *nix too. https://github.com/IAmPicard/StarTrekTimelinesSpreadsheet for the download and iampicard.com for the webpage. He's generously hosting this for free and only requests donations.


    I think you are right, IAP users would have a slight statistical edge in that scenario. I wouldn't really know as I (and I think many of the IAP gauntlet users) are using it to grind rather than to achieve #1/2. At the end of the day, the Legendary drop rate is so infinitesimally small that the number of final boxes pulled hardly makes a difference. You'll either get him/her/it over your 6 months, or you won't, and optimizing the last 2 minutes to squeeze out the other meager rewards from a #1/2 position just isn't worth the effort. So after the first time you claim your Gauntlet #1 achievement (which as noted above will probably involve a dilithium refresh, a different and wholly sanctioned kind of "unfair"), it really doesn't matter.

    Perhaps there's a small advantage in this instance, but it's nearly infinitesimal. You still get the same match-ups, for the same points, with the same chances for success. And if you're going tit-for-tat for #1, you're only getting 10 points a victory. And your crew still exhausts the same way. And you still have to pay for refreshes.

    In some ways you're disadvantaged because you lose the visual queues you get in the app. You don't see the loot you win, just get a readout that you have to look for. The sort is off so you can't swipe right or left to get the most/fewest points and evaluate to hit that or the next or next option. And the crew layout makes it harder to read exhaustion levels and plan for future matches. If you actually try to do all of these things in IAP, it would take longer per match than in the STT client.

    Either way, all you're given is a calculated chance for each match, something many discord bots do, as do many spreadsheets, and you still have to make a choice and initiate the action.

    Same to voyages, there are spreadsheets and bots that calculate your best crew for a voyage. This just reads your crew, you still decide if you take them and have to initiate the voyage.
    And if you want an estimation of time remaining, once you start to fail all your skill checks, just divide remaining AM by 22.

    So I’ll change my stance somewhat. If there isn’t a definite speed advantage for those final gauntlet moments, which very often determine who is the winner, then I wouldn’t condem the app. I do, however, wanna try it for myself once the DBID issue I’m having is fixed up. LLAP people, even the guy that called me a troll haha. Not everyone is fully briefed on this app, so it would be better to kindly inform than criticize.
  • Captain_WhoCaptain_Who ✭✭✭✭✭
    [S14] Bri wrote: »
    So I’ll change my stance somewhat. If there isn’t a definite speed advantage for those final gauntlet moments, which very often determine who is the winner, then I wouldn’t condem the app. I do, however, wanna try it for myself once the DBID issue I’m having is fixed up. LLAP people, even the guy that called me a troll haha. Not everyone is fully briefed on this app, so it would be better to kindly inform than criticize.

    LOL, yeah, sorry about that mate, I included the option of trolling on my first pass and realized it was unnecessary, so edited it out, but the original quote was already there.

    IAP speeds up playing the gauntlet when you're going for absolutes, but provides a hindrance to certain strategies. And if you're duking it out for first place, you're still stuck waiting on the other guy to make his move before you can make your next one, so speed advantages are mostly nullified.

    FWIW, I've got several first place wins with no dil refreshes, and only a net loss of a few hundred merits. My first was completely accidental. I think luck plays the biggest part, but strategy helps.
    And as IAP is concerned, I do worse using it, and find it easier to waste more merits. That emotional detachment and faster cycling through matches do that for me. Still, I use it frequently, as I don't have the patience many times to wait through the in game animations.
  • [S14] Bri wrote: »
    So I’ll change my stance somewhat. If there isn’t a definite speed advantage for those final gauntlet moments, which very often determine who is the winner, then I wouldn’t condem the app. I do, however, wanna try it for myself once the DBID issue I’m having is fixed up. LLAP people, even the guy that called me a troll haha. Not everyone is fully briefed on this app, so it would be better to kindly inform than criticize.

    LOL, yeah, sorry about that mate, I included the option of trolling on my first pass and realized it was unnecessary, so edited it out, but the original quote was already there.

    IAP speeds up playing the gauntlet when you're going for absolutes, but provides a hindrance to certain strategies. And if you're duking it out for first place, you're still stuck waiting on the other guy to make his move before you can make your next one, so speed advantages are mostly nullified.

    FWIW, I've got several first place wins with no dil refreshes, and only a net loss of a few hundred merits. My first was completely accidental. I think luck plays the biggest part, but strategy helps.
    And as IAP is concerned, I do worse using it, and find it easier to waste more merits. That emotional detachment and faster cycling through matches do that for me. Still, I use it frequently, as I don't have the patience many times to wait through the in game animations.

    I’ll have a nosy. I usually win gauntlet (no dil refresh), because I live in Taiwan and the last round is when I wake up, it’s ideal. Already have an Armus and six Caretakers and a Guinan in the year I’ve been playing. And, no worries at all.
  • I Fully support the IAMPICARD APP i use it daily but have never used it to actually play the game . I use it to make an informed decision .as far as it being any advantage in actual game play is BS . too many times the stated outcome of a gauntlet round or total time of a voyage has not been correct what it does the most of is allow me to have a better understanding of my crew available, my inventory needed,what missions i still havent completed and what crew I have in cryo. IN OTHERWORDS DB NEEDS TO LEAVE IT ALONE.
  • pirunapiruna ✭✭✭

    S31 wrote: »
    If they ban this App I will use MACRO on purpose in skirmishes and I won't even care about being banned.

    So, if they ban the IAmPicard app, you'll punish other players for it? :confused:

    Other players caused the ban of IAmPicard. Yes, it's a good move.
  • SMMSMM ✭✭✭
    [S14] Bri wrote: »
    S31 wrote: »
    [S14] Bri wrote: »
    Picture the scene:
    5 mins left in gauntlet. Positions 1 and 2 are holding back to compete late and make a final push for first. Who would have the advantage of completing more battles in a shorter space of time, and therefore winning?

    Someone playing on the actual game? Or someone using Iampicard? If the answer is Iampicard, how can that be fair to people using the ACTUAL GAME? If there is no benefit in this instance, then I’d say use the app, it doesn’t matter at all. Voyage guidance won’t affect P2P directly. But if someone can be at a disadvantage using the gauntlet’s most common method for winning, then it’s definitely unfair.

    Nobody would have an advantage because in Gauntlet's final pushes you only have 5-7 chances for a battle and I am Picard doesn't guarantee a win.

    Someone using IamPicard in a final push could just knock out his entire Gauntlet platoon with 0 wins.

    Many people use dilithium at this point to refresh their crew. It’s a simple question, and I genuinely don’t know the answer because I haven’t used the app due to a bug with my ID I’m looking into.

    So which method would be faster in those dying minutes and seconds? The actual game, or Iampicard?

    To answer your question as much as I’m able, IAP might get you a second or two of time saved, if only by bypassing animations. It still comes down MUCH more to the quality of crew, RNG luck, and willingness to spend merits/dil than any trivial time savings.

    Even if this was not true which it is, the solution is easy and would take seconds to implement. Add a 1 second delay to each battle for the last 15 minutes of the gauntlet.
  • Galdran wrote: »
    I just installed the application again, for the first time in a long time. I like the fact you can now login with facebook, so my biggest concern is gone that the developer gets desperate one day for cash and steals peoples password etc. And before you say that will never happen, it HAS happened in the past with legitimate software. Anytime you give a 3rd party your password to a web-based program, you run that risk.

    So now, i'm just going to wait and see if the automation in it is declared to be illegal and they ban the app. And it is automation, its not macro'ing but you can do things in this 3rd party program without logging into the game and doing it...thats automation.

    I think that though, it is more likely that DB would ask the coders to remove any feature that allows you to play the game from within it, rather than ban it outright.

    I've never been able to use it because I play through Facebook. I realize that it may be a bit late to ask this, but how does it login with Facebook?

    That being said, I know that a few people in my fleet use it and that they find it very helpful. I don't know if they use the gauntlet and voyage feature, but the reason they suggested it to me and the reason I wanted to try it is the crew management, the possibility to see replicator uses and the fact that apparently it makes it easier to manage the inventory.
    As others mentioned, those are weaknesses of the game that should be corrected, but as long as they're not adressed I can't see anything wrong about using this app.
  • I've never used it so could someone explain how IamPicard helps in the gauntlet, please.
  • Roadrunner {SG-66}Roadrunner {SG-66} ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    elemntee wrote: »
    I've never used it so could someone explain how IamPicard helps in the gauntlet, please.

    Presents the matchups in the much better way, shows you the winning percentage chance of a win based on the rolls and crit rate, no animation (what people calls the “unfair advantage”). Save you a few seconds...

    Edit:

    laizq4hcb8j5.jpeg

  • Imokles wrote: »
    [S14] Bri wrote: »
    I’ll have a nosy. I usually win gauntlet (no dil refresh), because I live in Taiwan and the last round is when I wake up, it’s ideal. Already have an Armus and six Caretakers and a Guinan in the year I’ve been playing. And, no worries at all.
    Yes, geographic location is surely one of the more important factors. I live in Europe, so gauntlet ends in the middle of the night. Guess how often I have won...

    Well, on the negative side for me, events start at midnight in summer (not too bad), and 1am in winter. For Galaxy events it isn’t too bad, but for faction or skirmish events where a good start is paramount, it’s really inconevenient. It would be good if events had floating start times. But, I guess most players live in North America. In Asia, all we have is a decent gauntlet end time.
  • elemnteeelemntee ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    elemntee wrote: »
    I've never used it so could someone explain how IamPicard helps in the gauntlet, please.

    Presents the matchups in the much better way, shows you the winning percentage chance of a win based on the rolls and crit rate, no animation (what people calls the “unfair advantage”). Save you a few seconds...

    Edit:

    laizq4hcb8j5.jpeg

    Thank you.

    I'm up against
    Mirror Picard at 45% for 170 points
    Mirror Picard at 45% for 120 points
    Mirror Picard at 45% for 90 points
    Mirror Picard at 45% for 55 points
    Mirror Picard at 45% for 15 points.


    I lost. IamPicard is rubbish.
  • Dirk GundersonDirk Gunderson ✭✭✭✭✭
    elemntee wrote: »
    elemntee wrote: »
    I've never used it so could someone explain how IamPicard helps in the gauntlet, please.

    Presents the matchups in the much better way, shows you the winning percentage chance of a win based on the rolls and crit rate, no animation (what people calls the “unfair advantage”). Save you a few seconds...

    Edit:

    laizq4hcb8j5.jpeg

    Thank you.

    I'm up against
    Mirror Picard at 45% for 170 points
    Mirror Picard at 45% for 120 points
    Mirror Picard at 45% for 90 points
    Mirror Picard at 45% for 55 points
    Mirror Picard at 45% for 15 points.


    I lost. IamPicard is rubbish.

    I’m struggling to understand how the fool that helps you see win chances without busting out a calculator is trash because DBRNG caused you to lose? It doesn’t make it easier to win any given battle (that would be an actual TOS violation), it just gives you the actual probability of winning said battle.

    This is what Paladin27 was wrong about earlier - IAP isn’t a magic device that turns the user into a guaranteed winner of every gauntlet...it just helps you make an informed decision. Personally speaking, my final gauntlet rankings really didn’t change since I started using IAP. I still fall somewhere between 10th and 45th place, with occasional top-ten finishes when RNGesus smiles upon me. That “extra three minutes” thing is nothing compared to the twin brick walls of other people spending dil to revive crew and the almighty RNG, especially when the rewards are such a crapshoot to begin with.
  • Paladin 27Paladin 27 ✭✭✭✭✭
    elemntee wrote: »
    elemntee wrote: »
    I've never used it so could someone explain how IamPicard helps in the gauntlet, please.

    Presents the matchups in the much better way, shows you the winning percentage chance of a win based on the rolls and crit rate, no animation (what people calls the “unfair advantage”). Save you a few seconds...

    Edit:

    laizq4hcb8j5.jpeg

    Thank you.

    I'm up against
    Mirror Picard at 45% for 170 points
    Mirror Picard at 45% for 120 points
    Mirror Picard at 45% for 90 points
    Mirror Picard at 45% for 55 points
    Mirror Picard at 45% for 15 points.


    I lost. IamPicard is rubbish.

    I’m struggling to understand how the fool that helps you see win chances without busting out a calculator is trash because DBRNG caused you to lose? It doesn’t make it easier to win any given battle (that would be an actual TOS violation), it just gives you the actual probability of winning said battle.

    This is what Paladin27 was wrong about earlier - IAP isn’t a magic device that turns the user into a guaranteed winner of every gauntlet...it just helps you make an informed decision. Personally speaking, my final gauntlet rankings really didn’t change since I started using IAP. I still fall somewhere between 10th and 45th place, with occasional top-ten finishes when RNGesus smiles upon me. That “extra three minutes” thing is nothing compared to the twin brick walls of other people spending dil to revive crew and the almighty RNG, especially when the rewards are such a crapshoot to begin with.

    I didn’t state that it changes the results, just that you don’t have to do extra taps and watch animations for ~20 seconds each match or 3 minutes a round.
  • 5000 Quatloos5000 Quatloos ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    Personally speaking, my final gauntlet rankings really didn’t change since I started using IAP. I still fall somewhere between 10th and 45th place, with occasional top-ten finishes when RNGesus smiles upon me. That “extra three minutes” thing is nothing compared to the twin brick walls of other people spending dil to revive crew and the almighty RNG, especially when the rewards are such a crapshoot to begin with.

    Yep.

    If you view gauntlets as a head to head competition for the most reward boxes, the answer is, at the end of the day it's your crew that matters since all the other potential efficiencies gained are so far down in the margins as to be negligible.

    If you view gauntlets as resource farming, then I'd say the complaints fall into the category of "really, you choose not to use the tool and then are going to begrudge me the ability to make my harvesting tedium marginally less miserable every day ... really?". All of the other IAP features outside of gauntlet fall in this category as well.
    Accepted. Mark them, Galt.
  • Paladin 27 wrote: »
    elemntee wrote: »
    elemntee wrote: »
    I've never used it so could someone explain how IamPicard helps in the gauntlet, please.

    Presents the matchups in the much better way, shows you the winning percentage chance of a win based on the rolls and crit rate, no animation (what people calls the “unfair advantage”). Save you a few seconds...

    Edit:

    laizq4hcb8j5.jpeg

    Thank you.

    I'm up against
    Mirror Picard at 45% for 170 points
    Mirror Picard at 45% for 120 points
    Mirror Picard at 45% for 90 points
    Mirror Picard at 45% for 55 points
    Mirror Picard at 45% for 15 points.


    I lost. IamPicard is rubbish.

    I’m struggling to understand how the fool that helps you see win chances without busting out a calculator is trash because DBRNG caused you to lose? It doesn’t make it easier to win any given battle (that would be an actual TOS violation), it just gives you the actual probability of winning said battle.

    This is what Paladin27 was wrong about earlier - IAP isn’t a magic device that turns the user into a guaranteed winner of every gauntlet...it just helps you make an informed decision. Personally speaking, my final gauntlet rankings really didn’t change since I started using IAP. I still fall somewhere between 10th and 45th place, with occasional top-ten finishes when RNGesus smiles upon me. That “extra three minutes” thing is nothing compared to the twin brick walls of other people spending dil to revive crew and the almighty RNG, especially when the rewards are such a crapshoot to begin with.

    I didn’t state that it changes the results, just that you don’t have to do extra taps and watch animations for ~20 seconds each match or 3 minutes a round.

    The difference in time efficiency is essentially moot for gauntlet. It doesn't change the amount of rewards one person gets over another. You're still limited by the 4 hour crew reset timer. Either you run your 15 battles over 5 minutes or over 8 minutes, you still only do 15 battles. You dont win more rewards. It also doesnt allow you to spend dil to extend a streak, so if you want to go streaking and fight against streak-busting rng, then you should be doing that in STT anyway.

    Your argument would be so much different if gauntlet wasnt effected by crew exhaustion and you could just battle endlessly for the 48 hours between resets.
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  • Paladin 27Paladin 27 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Since people didn't like the derivative works prohibition of the TOS. How about this?

    "You further agree not to create or provide any means other than through the Disruptor Beam Sites by which Disruptor Beam's on-line computer game may be played by others - for example, through server emulators"

    And from the the user side.

    "Abuse bugs or exploit features in the Services to gain unintended advantages over other players; create multiple accounts to artificially increase the ratings or scores; or to engage in any form of "sock puppetry,” or engage in any act which Disruptor Beam deems to be in conflict with the spirit or intent of the Services."

    DB hasn't yet, but if they wanted to (and it my not be in their commercial interest to do so) they could say that users are exploiting the gauntlet feature by bypassing animations.
  • 5000 Quatloos5000 Quatloos ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    Paladin 27 wrote: »
    Since people didn't like the derivative works prohibition of the TOS. How about this?

    "You further agree not to create or provide any means other than through the Disruptor Beam Sites by which Disruptor Beam's on-line computer game may be played by others - for example, through server emulators"

    And from the the user side.

    "Abuse bugs or exploit features in the Services to gain unintended advantages over other players; create multiple accounts to artificially increase the ratings or scores; or to engage in any form of "sock puppetry,” or engage in any act which Disruptor Beam deems to be in conflict with the spirit or intent of the Services."

    DB hasn't yet, but if they wanted to (and it my not be in their commercial interest to do so) they could say that users are exploiting the gauntlet feature by bypassing animations.

    For the first one, depends on how you parse it. IAP doesn't emulate the server, it accesses it. Server emulation could be construed as "having a STT experience without at all using the STT servers", i.e., someone clones the game, functionality, and crew and simulates the entire game on their server - i.e., appropriating their IP. I agree there's greyness in interpretation there, but not black and white. The broader "any other means" would be stronger ground.

    IAP is not abusing bugs or exploiting features. It does not create multiple accounts. I don't know what "sock puppetry" is so maybe some grey area there, and the last of course one could drive truck through :-)
    Accepted. Mark them, Galt.
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