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WRG layoffs - is Ben all alone now?

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  • ThurthoradThurthorad ✭✭✭✭✭
    AviTrek wrote: »
    I hate that people now misuse that term. People are laid off because a business has a period of "slack time" {using production work as an example} or other reason in a company like this. But, that slack time or other slow down is expected to end and the employees have the opportunity to return to work.
    "Layoffs" is the appropriate term of a position is removed.

    There are situations where layoffs are temporary, and you bring up a good example of this. Layoffs can also reflect a position being removed with no immediate plan to bring it back. (This still counts if a similar position with fewer responsibilities (and less pay) is created to replace it.)

    Being laid off reflects a "no fault" situation for the employee, as they were responsible for being terminated. Being fired, however, typically means the employee is responsible (at least partially, if not fully). This is important in the US because it impact your unemployment.

    TP and WRG were impacted by lay offs. You saying they were "fired" is incorrect.

    Okay. Wonder why we saw all those posts by "laid off" employees acting like they are unemployed and need a job.

    I guess defenders gotta defend.


    Have a nice night.

    Google announcing layoffs https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2023/01/20/google-layoffs-jobs-employees-cut/11088409002/

    Meta announcing layoffs https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/09/technology/meta-layoffs-facebook.html

    Microsoft announcing layoffs https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/18/business/microsoft-layoffs.html

    It doesn't matter what the term meant 70 years ago when the coal mine or auto company had a slowdown. In America in 2023, when a company decides to reduce the number of employees it has, the term used is laid off. Fired is reserved for when a job is terminated for cause.

    So we're all in aggressive agreement then!
  • WaldoMagWaldoMag ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes. Layoffs are now synonymous with firing.
  • Navarch Navarch ✭✭✭✭✭
    Epic derail.

    Quick question: is anyone spending on Timelines given what we know now?
  • ThurthoradThurthorad ✭✭✭✭✭
    I haven't yet, but I currently intend to buy the campaign at the last moment assuming I still feel good about things.
  • Navarch wrote: »
    Epic derail.

    Quick question: is anyone spending on Timelines given what we know now?

    I haven't spent since I hit VIP14 a while ago, don't quite see the point when I have 375 slots & am shuffling SRs for FBB & may thaw Legionaries for 12hr Voyages after I get sick stuck on Brutal FBBs...!
  • W.W. CarlisleW.W. Carlisle ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thurthorad wrote: »
    I haven't yet, but I currently intend to buy the campaign at the last moment assuming I still feel good about things.

    Same here. I've wanted that T'Pol, so I'll but the campaign when I make good progress with it.
    W.W. CarlislePlayed since January 20, 2019Captain Level- 99 (May 9, 2022)VIP 14Crew Quarters: 485/485Most recent/Lowest- Anbo-jyutsu Kyle Riker (1/5* Lvl 30) 5/29/23Immortalized x-866 5* x184, 4* x 490, 3* x91, 2* x62, and 1* x27Most recent Immortal - Tearful Janeway 4* 5/25/23Current non-event project- Improving my Science base skill. Retrieval Project- Mestral 1/5*
  • DavideBooksDavideBooks ✭✭✭✭✭
    I stopped spending because they want to keep the poison rations in voyages more than they want my money. But if I were spending, I would hesitate due to the layoffs and speculation on the health of the company. I would probably choose to spend some, though, just so it were more likely that the game continues.
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    Navarch wrote: »
    Epic derail.

    Quick question: is anyone spending on Timelines given what we know now?

    I absolutely am NOT
    "The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
  • When the “leap year” offer re-appears in the next few weeks, i will buy it.

    (22,xxx dilithium for 24.99)

    Im pretty sure it will show up soon when wrg needs a cash infusion to offset all of the people who have paused spending.
  • I spent somewhere between $300-$500 a month up until about a month or two ago. It wasn’t the game or the state of the game that stopped me, however I would have stopped shortly thereafter due to the recent layoffs.
  • Still spending as usual. I don’t understand the logic behind players who love the game and want it to continue, but who cease spending because of fear it won’t. Surely that behaviour, if widespread, will hasten the very thing they fear.

    As long as I still get enjoyment from the game I will support it through my modest spending.
    Yeah. I understand the immediate reaction. For me, Ben has done a great job demonstrating this isn't the end, so my confidence has been restored.

    I have some advantage, as I saw those LinkedIn updates as they were being made - I was similarly shocked, and have had more time to process the news than folks who first heard here. I'm hoping when the upcoming patch goes live it brings the same reassurance I feel to many of those still feeling anxious.
    Six degrees in Inter-species Veterinary Medicine. Treating all manner of critters, from Tribbles to Humans.

    Starport
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    Still spending as usual. I don’t understand the logic behind players who love the game and want it to continue, but who cease spending because of fear it won’t. Surely that behaviour, if widespread, will hasten the very thing they fear.

    As long as I still get enjoyment from the game I will support it through my modest spending.

    I don't give money to very many I have lost trust in.

    Them being "suspicious" {AT BEST!} is going to make people uncomfortable. Which is their fault. Nit the players.

    "The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
  • Still spending as usual. I don’t understand the logic behind players who love the game and want it to continue, but who cease spending because of fear it won’t. Surely that behaviour, if widespread, will hasten the very thing they fear.

    As long as I still get enjoyment from the game I will support it through my modest spending.

    I don't give money to very many I have lost trust in.

    Them being "suspicious" {AT BEST!} is going to make people uncomfortable. Which is their fault. Nit the players.

    Yes suspicious is how i feel.

    When ben says “we have a new community manager whos focus is ONLY community!!!”, what he really meant was “ we have a tp employee tasked with managing the communities of seven other games taking on the responsibilities of managing this new, eighth community.”

    I dont think there is much i can trust out of the devs mouths at this point.

    Esipecially, when im at the point that everytime ben says “we love you all”, i am hearing something far less extroverted.
  • (HGH)Apollo(HGH)Apollo ✭✭✭✭✭
    Still spending as usual. I don’t understand the logic behind players who love the game and want it to continue, but who cease spending because of fear it won’t. Surely that behaviour, if widespread, will hasten the very thing they fear.

    As long as I still get enjoyment from the game I will support it through my modest spending.

    I don't give money to very many I have lost trust in.

    Them being "suspicious" {AT BEST!} is going to make people uncomfortable. Which is their fault. Nit the players.

    Yes suspicious is how i feel.

    When ben says “we have a new community manager whos focus is ONLY community!!!”, what he really meant was “ we have a tp employee tasked with managing the communities of seven other games taking on the responsibilities of managing this new, eighth community.”

    I dont think there is much i can trust out of the devs mouths at this point.

    Esipecially, when im at the point that everytime ben says “we love you all”, i am hearing something far less extroverted.

    I think Ben is a good guy, Platonian Chekov costume trait killing aside, just that the decision was by his boss’s boss. I don’t hold Ben responsible and he has been dealing with a lot himself. I will continue to buy the monthly card. Might buy a campaign. Not sure. I wait till the end.
    Let’s fly!
  • Navarch Navarch ✭✭✭✭✭
    Still spending as usual. I don’t understand the logic behind players who love the game and want it to continue, but who cease spending because of fear it won’t. Surely that behaviour, if widespread, will hasten the very thing they fear.

    As long as I still get enjoyment from the game I will support it through my modest spending.

    I keep going back and forth on spending. I’ve spent a goodly amount on Timelines and hoarded a lot of resources to chase event wins and to be able to cite new crew quickly. I don’t actually need anything TP is selling immediately, which combined with the uncertainty of whether Timelines will have enough player support to keep going, makes it very difficult to see the value in future purchases.

    For now, I’ll keep listening and hoping for good signs. But the knowledge that our community manager is not engaging with the community as much as Shan is not a promising sign.
  • ~peregrine~~peregrine~ ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Frank? ... paging, 1 2 3 ...

    The game has gone through this before. Be cool.
    "In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
  • SimsSims ✭✭✭
    Navarch wrote: »
    Epic derail.

    Quick question: is anyone spending on Timelines given what we know now?

    I wait until the campaign is over to purchase the extra tracks and will continue to do so as £20 per month is pretty irrelevant to me. It costs me that to get a taxi home after a night out.
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    There's been turnover before, and probably a good deal of it we players never heard about. I've consistently felt all the "This Is The End!" chatter hyperbolic and misplaced. I'm not throwing in with that crowd just yet, but there are three things that give me pause this time:

    1 The departure of Shan. Throughout all previous bouts of turmoil, she gave us a sense of continuity. I appreciated her leadership here, but she isn't irreplaceable. No one ever is. It's that so far, it doesn't seem there's been a replacement at all.

    2 Those consecutive weeks of likeness approval issues. Either actors or their agents all got much pickier at the same time, or something threw a significant monkey wrench into the art department.

    3 Even throughout Tilting Point's ownership, there were always forum members either "retiring" due to staleness or rage-quitting over some boneheaded company decision exacerbated by poor responses. None of that is new. But WRG has been much more willing to "experiment" than TP had been. I haven't been keeping score, but I think more of those experiments have either fallen flat or alienated forum members than have succeeded. And I'm not seeing anything in the way of new blood replacing those outgoing forum regulars, many of whom were also some of the game's biggest spenders.

    #2 always hits me as poor planning since it keeps happening. You should never be getting next week's art approved with less than a week to go. Events should be planned ahead far enough that artwork can be finished and submitted for approval well in advance. It's March today. Events for at least September being planned now and Crew picked would allow months for artwork to be approved. Artwork being approved less than week before the Event in question implies planning was not done properly. At least one of the Events going "live" in the Hub less than 24 hours before the Event looked really bad.
    Barring Originals, there should be reference photos for most Crew added to the game. Give an artist reference photos today for the Event the first week of September and they can start drawing now. And should have images ready to be sent for approval in a month or less, I would think.
    "The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
  • Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
    There's been turnover before, and probably a good deal of it we players never heard about. I've consistently felt all the "This Is The End!" chatter hyperbolic and misplaced. I'm not throwing in with that crowd just yet, but there are three things that give me pause this time:

    1 The departure of Shan. Throughout all previous bouts of turmoil, she gave us a sense of continuity. I appreciated her leadership here, but she isn't irreplaceable. No one ever is. It's that so far, it doesn't seem there's been a replacement at all.

    2 Those consecutive weeks of likeness approval issues. Either actors or their agents all got much pickier at the same time, or something threw a significant monkey wrench into the art department.

    3 Even throughout Tilting Point's ownership, there were always forum members either "retiring" due to staleness or rage-quitting over some boneheaded company decision exacerbated by poor responses. None of that is new. But WRG has been much more willing to "experiment" than TP had been. I haven't been keeping score, but I think more of those experiments have either fallen flat or alienated forum members than have succeeded. And I'm not seeing anything in the way of new blood replacing those outgoing forum regulars, many of whom were also some of the game's biggest spenders.

    #2 always hits me as poor planning since it keeps happening. You should never be getting next week's art approved with less than a week to go. Events should be planned ahead far enough that artwork can be finished and submitted for approval well in advance. It's March today. Events for at least September being planned now and Crew picked would allow months for artwork to be approved. Artwork being approved less than week before the Event in question implies planning was not done properly. At least one of the Events going "live" in the Hub less than 24 hours before the Event looked really bad.
    Barring Originals, there should be reference photos for most Crew added to the game. Give an artist reference photos today for the Event the first week of September and they can start drawing now. And should have images ready to be sent for approval in a month or less, I would think.

    To be fair, I would think it's even harder now to plan anything very far in advance, with so many active series going. I forget the details; you or someone else might remember it better than I do. There was a problem when the in-game text for one of the first Discovery events was contradicted by that same week's episode. It was also baffling that they made a throwaway nobody like Torchbearer Rejac into a 5*. DB looked clueless. The forum members who weren't already angry at the very existence of Discovery were upset that DB didn't seem to even be accurate with the content they gave us. It can't be easy to get accurate enough information ahead of time to develop game content that won't undermine player confidence like that again.
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2023
    There's been turnover before, and probably a good deal of it we players never heard about. I've consistently felt all the "This Is The End!" chatter hyperbolic and misplaced. I'm not throwing in with that crowd just yet, but there are three things that give me pause this time:

    1 The departure of Shan. Throughout all previous bouts of turmoil, she gave us a sense of continuity. I appreciated her leadership here, but she isn't irreplaceable. No one ever is. It's that so far, it doesn't seem there's been a replacement at all.

    2 Those consecutive weeks of likeness approval issues. Either actors or their agents all got much pickier at the same time, or something threw a significant monkey wrench into the art department.

    3 Even throughout Tilting Point's ownership, there were always forum members either "retiring" due to staleness or rage-quitting over some boneheaded company decision exacerbated by poor responses. None of that is new. But WRG has been much more willing to "experiment" than TP had been. I haven't been keeping score, but I think more of those experiments have either fallen flat or alienated forum members than have succeeded. And I'm not seeing anything in the way of new blood replacing those outgoing forum regulars, many of whom were also some of the game's biggest spenders.

    #2 always hits me as poor planning since it keeps happening. You should never be getting next week's art approved with less than a week to go. Events should be planned ahead far enough that artwork can be finished and submitted for approval well in advance. It's March today. Events for at least September being planned now and Crew picked would allow months for artwork to be approved. Artwork being approved less than week before the Event in question implies planning was not done properly. At least one of the Events going "live" in the Hub less than 24 hours before the Event looked really bad.
    Barring Originals, there should be reference photos for most Crew added to the game. Give an artist reference photos today for the Event the first week of September and they can start drawing now. And should have images ready to be sent for approval in a month or less, I would think.

    To be fair, I would think it's even harder now to plan anything very far in advance, with so many active series going. I forget the details; you or someone else might remember it better than I do. There was a problem when the in-game text for one of the first Discovery events was contradicted by that same week's episode. It was also baffling that they made a throwaway nobody like Torchbearer Rejac into a 5*. DB looked clueless. The forum members who weren't already angry at the very existence of Discovery were upset that DB didn't seem to even be accurate with the content they gave us. It can't be easy to get accurate enough information ahead of time to develop game content that won't undermine player confidence like that again.

    I will definitely concede that working with multiple series, most still ongoing, can cause difficulty. I remember the Towelie Adira issue was that the contract specifically said that could not be the first version of her released in the game. That probably got caught in the approval process by CBS most likely. Which is why they quickly got EDF approved for the Event. Right now we have Disco, Lower Decks, Strange New Worlds, and Picard, which is in the final season. However, I would not be totally surprised if that show is setting up a new series. Also, Lippy & the 31s is coming we know. Ceti Alpha 5 reportedly is slowly moving forward. There is plenty of material to draw from for years. That is not a guarantee of continuing the game, but it does bode well for it doing so.

    "The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    Still spending as usual. I don’t understand the logic behind players who love the game and want it to continue, but who cease spending because of fear it won’t. Surely that behaviour, if widespread, will hasten the very thing they fear.

    As long as I still get enjoyment from the game I will support it through my modest spending.

    I said pages ago that stirring up concerns in the people keeping the lights on may lead to the outcome WRG does not want. Because it is true. Scaring off the people giving you money is a bad idea.

    However, I did see some stuff today online that eased my worries quite a bit. Unfortunately that comfort had to come from third parties and not the people who should be giving us definite reassurances and not just generic statements many companies have used in the past to hide the end. I have not definitely decided, but when I clear Tier 40 tonight I likely will be buying the Campaign. And renewing my Daily Dilithium which just expired.
    "The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
  • Veterinary PhloxVeterinary Phlox ✭✭✭✭✭
    1 The departure of Shan. Throughout all previous bouts of turmoil, she gave us a sense of continuity. I appreciated her leadership here, but she isn't irreplaceable. No one ever is. It's that so far, it doesn't seem there's been a replacement at all.

    Losing a CM does have an outsized impact on the community, especially someone as engaged as Shan.

    Larger games can mitigate this with multiple CMs, so some rotation isn't as disruptive, but that isn't feasible for smaller titles. (We did have Sunshine Riker for a while, I hope he's doing well!)

    I'm glad it didn't take long to get Nancy on board, I'm sure her presence will help.
    Six degrees in Inter-species Veterinary Medicine. Treating all manner of critters, from Tribbles to Humans.

    Starport
  • ThurthoradThurthorad ✭✭✭✭✭
    Still spending as usual. I don’t understand the logic behind players who love the game and want it to continue, but who cease spending because of fear it won’t. Surely that behaviour, if widespread, will hasten the very thing they fear.

    As long as I still get enjoyment from the game I will support it through my modest spending.

    I said pages ago that stirring up concerns in the people keeping the lights on may lead to the outcome WRG does not want. Because it is true. Scaring off the people giving you money is a bad idea.

    However, I did see some stuff today online that eased my worries quite a bit. Unfortunately that comfort had to come from third parties and not the people who should be giving us definite reassurances and not just generic statements many companies have used in the past to hide the end. I have not definitely decided, but when I clear Tier 40 tonight I likely will be buying the Campaign. And renewing my Daily Dilithium which just expired.

    What did you hear? Some positive news might be what this forum needs.
  • When Dragalia Lost announced their EoS, I shifted my attention to Final Fantasy Record Keeper. Which subsequently EoS'd on even shorter notice. Then I turned my attention back to Star Trek Timelines...
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