IMO, voyages need to be more generous than other means of gameplay since they require more work - you have to answer dilemmas every 2 hours. (Whether they need to be as lucrative as they are is another - LONG issue.)
DB should know by now that whatever they do, someone will find a way to make it work and share it with the rest of us. What that will be depends on what "slight" is.
The ball's in their court, and whatever they do will have consequences. Glad I'm not them!
This lessening chronos angers me. I realize that benefits are given to those who spend money. For that reason, most events and such are heavily biased to those who spend money. For me, who is not in a position to now (but hopes to be in a position some day), the voyages are the way to improve my situation.
Chronotons are essential.
I have only twice managed to meet the second dilemma. Some of you talk of 12 hour voyages. More power to you. For me, the chronotons are what drive me to improve my crew. Without that incentive, why spend my time improving voyage crew?
Credits are practically useless. People keep saying they run out. I cannot imagine that. I want fewer credits, not more.
For what it is worth, chrons dramatically increase after 6 hours. If they were to nerf something, it would probably be something along the lines of dropping the 6+ hr reward from 10 to 7 chrons.
For comparison, my current voyage was around 300 at 6 hours and grew to over 500 by 7:10.
Obviously, this is speculation, but the excessive reward post-6-hrs seems pretty obvious.
Which is funny as that would be then lessening the value of the Dilithium to extend.
That would also be a 30% decrease which is definitely not slight. 10 to 9 would be slight.
Yea, but that's kind of the base problem (from DB's perspective). If I spend 100 DIL to extend a 7 hour voyage to 9 hours, I'll get something along the lines of 4-500 additional chronotons (along with additional character and component drops). By comparison, the first two purchases of cadet tickets cost 150 DIL apiece for 150 Chrons (assuming it's MWF cadets).
That makes voyage extensions are 4-5 times more efficient from a Chron perspective. In my example (of a 30% reduction in post-6-hour-chron-drops) you would still have a 2.8-3.5:1 Chron:DIL ratio which would still be significantly better than cadet tickets (1:1).
If you were going to spend DIL on chronotons, of course you would have shifted away from cadet tickets into voyages. That's the economically smart thing to do. And of course you would reconsider spending DIL to extend voyages if they made them less lucrative.
But I think it's disingenuous to argue that the efficiency of voyage extensions were anything but extremely generous compared to the alternatives in game. Either voyages need to be nerfed, or a significant portion of the game needs to be rebalanced around the existence of significantly more chronotons (other methods get more efficient, new characters require more chronotons to level, etc). No surprise here that they will take the easier route of reining in the outlier to be more in-line with the rest of the game.
The difference is cadet missions are run for seconds and then are done and you have your crew back and available. Voyages locks your crew up for hours. You have to spend 6 hours just to get to the 10 drop point. That's already 8:24 total. Let's say you run to 7:00 without DIL, that's 9:48. Then you spend DIL to extend the voyage 2:00. That's 84 DIL you spent, but your voyage is now a commitment of 12:36. And you have to actively watch the voyage to be able to select the dilemma every 2 hours or that 12:36 becomes 13-14 hours. So by agreeing to lock up your crew for half a day, to actively play every 2 hours, and to wait 13 hours before getting your rewards, you get a better return on your DIL.
It's like a monthly card vs purchasing DIL. The monthly card provides better value, but it takes longer to accrue and requires more of you activity than by DIL up front.
This lessening chronos angers me. I realize that benefits are given to those who spend money. For that reason, most events and such are heavily biased to those who spend money. For me, who is not in a position to now (but hopes to be in a position some day), the voyages are the way to improve my situation.
Chronotons are essential.
I have only twice managed to meet the second dilemma. Some of you talk of 12 hour voyages. More power to you. For me, the chronotons are what drive me to improve my crew. Without that incentive, why spend my time improving voyage crew?
Credits are practically useless. People keep saying they run out. I cannot imagine that. I want fewer credits, not more.
For what it is worth, chrons dramatically increase after 6 hours. If they were to nerf something, it would probably be something along the lines of dropping the 6+ hr reward from 10 to 7 chrons.
For comparison, my current voyage was around 300 at 6 hours and grew to over 500 by 7:10.
Obviously, this is speculation, but the excessive reward post-6-hrs seems pretty obvious.
Which is funny as that would be then lessening the value of the Dilithium to extend.
That would also be a 30% decrease which is definitely not slight. 10 to 9 would be slight.
Yea, but that's kind of the base problem (from DB's perspective). If I spend 100 DIL to extend a 7 hour voyage to 9 hours, I'll get something along the lines of 4-500 additional chronotons (along with additional character and component drops). By comparison, the first two purchases of cadet tickets cost 150 DIL apiece for 150 Chrons (assuming it's MWF cadets).
That makes voyage extensions are 4-5 times more efficient from a Chron perspective. In my example (of a 30% reduction in post-6-hour-chron-drops) you would still have a 2.8-3.5:1 Chron:DIL ratio which would still be significantly better than cadet tickets (1:1).
If you were going to spend DIL on chronotons, of course you would have shifted away from cadet tickets into voyages. That's the economically smart thing to do. And of course you would reconsider spending DIL to extend voyages if they made them less lucrative.
But I think it's disingenuous to argue that the efficiency of voyage extensions were anything but extremely generous compared to the alternatives in game. Either voyages need to be nerfed, or a significant portion of the game needs to be rebalanced around the existence of significantly more chronotons (other methods get more efficient, new characters require more chronotons to level, etc). No surprise here that they will take the easier route of reining in the outlier to be more in-line with the rest of the game.
The difference is cadet missions are run for seconds and then are done and you have your crew back and available. Voyages locks your crew up for hours. You have to spend 6 hours just to get to the 10 drop point. That's already 8:24 total. Let's say you run to 7:00 without DIL, that's 9:48. Then you spend DIL to extend the voyage 2:00. That's 84 DIL you spent, but your voyage is now a commitment of 12:36. And you have to actively watch the voyage to be able to select the dilemma every 2 hours or that 12:36 becomes 13-14 hours. So by agreeing to lock up your crew for half a day, to actively play every 2 hours, and to wait 13 hours before getting your rewards, you get a better return on your DIL.
It's like a monthly card vs purchasing DIL. The monthly card provides better value, but it takes longer to accrue and requires more of you activity than by DIL up front.
Agreed! And my "30% reduction" proposal there would still far outpace what you get from buying cadet tickets.
Incidentally since DB will not provide odds/drop rate information, how will we know how slight it is? You'll end up with the same negative crowd saying its over-nerfed and the white knight negative anti-negs telling them to grow up its all fine and really not changed at all.
I don't know about you, but I am sure I am not DB ideal player. I am not a whale and don't have large amounts of disposable income to put into a game. When I do spend money, I need to feel that I am getting the maximum benefit for my buck in terms of enjoyment and improving my position. I am sure that I am not the only one. So basically right now, I have been spending my money on the monthly dilithium, the offers when I get one I can afford and need, and to extend Voyages. For most of the stuff, I am priced out of the market ( or time portal) . I can't do the packs because I can't buy enough of them to make it worth my while, I don't buy the extra chronoton offers for the events because I know I can't buy enough to make a difference in my game. So basically, when the cost for me starts to outweigh the benefits and if DB only targets whales, it makes it just one less expense for me.
We heard your feedback regarding extended events over holidays. They can feel extra grindy and you’re not getting additional rewards. So we’re going to try something new. We’re not changing the schedule, but what we can do is give you additional threshold rewards you can unlock. What this means is that while it will take a little longer to unlock rewards, you’ll also have more rewards to unlock along the way. This will only apply to the last 2 events during the Mirror Universe Mega-Event. Try it out and let us know what you think.
We’re still working on an overhaul of Cryostasis which includes the ability to sort and search for crew. I was hoping to be able to get it out to you before the end of the year, but there’s still more UI work we need to do. We’re targeting the next major client update for this upgrade.
Heads up -- we’re going to be rebalancing the Voyages loot table. This will be the first change since the feature launched. We’ll have more details about this later, but these are small adjustments and not drastic changes. You’ll earn slightly fewer Chronitons and Trainers, but you’ll earn a little more Credits, and have a greater chance of getting crew (including all-new Voyages-exclusive crew). Stay tuned.
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Bad. Typical vagueness from DB, likely spells a PR disaster.
Kahless will be leaving the Honor Hall to make room for a new crew member that many of you have been asking for. This will also take place sometime after the New Year, and we’ll be sure to give you at least a week’s notice before making the change.
Also bad. why remove him?
Vault is good news, other news is potentially bad to ugly.
All of us players know that there has already been a change to superrare crew in voyages. So there has already been a change to voyages. But to be realistic I knew that too many replicator rations were being given, so I am not surprised to see a reduction. Not sure why there is a need to lower chronitons rewarded. When with a 1000 chronitons I cannot even fully level crew sitting at level 90. Maybe you should be looking at the cost in chronitons of leveling crew and lowering that cost too.
I hope changes to cryo chamber allow us to see space battle stats. Since changes to these stats are most likely not in wiki, the only way to have correct stats is to take the crew out and see what the stats are and then refreeze the crew.
Edit: it would also be nice to see cryoed crew on voyages to know what we are missing out on by having them frozen.
Does part of this voyage rebalance include now failing dilemmas at the 7.5 hr mark for skill checks in which I have 10,424 proficiency? Because that’s seriously a thing that just happened.
There are such sweet preview screens for voyages (with explanations how voyages work etc.) and those show sweet items the player "can" get, including up to Super-Rare equipment (not components ... equipment). I hope the loot-table is gunna be balanced also that we won't "just" get components, but also equipment (such as science and social lessons maybe, or encoded communiqués or identification codes and all the stuff our crew needs on a daily basis).
Less chronitons is not good, even when you say "slightly" ... that could be 10 purrcent, it could be 5 purrcent, literally anything below a quarter in my opinion. More credits is good for replications, I like that. However, at this point it might be a good idea to re-evaluate the shop item prices (faction stores). 250'000 credits for a green quality faction item is just out of hand! Replicating that will cost only 9'000 credits!
"Everything about the Jem'Hadar is lethal!" - Eris (ST-DS9 Episode 2x26 "The Jem'Hadar")
I would like to add my voice to those asking that chronitons not be touched in voyages.
In regards to more crew dropping, could I humbly request that there be a small chance of 5* crew dropping from voyages? We have a small chance in the merit pulls from the portal, it would be nice to have a chance in the voyages too. It would give some of us added incentive to extend voyages, particularly if we already have most of the 4* crew. As an added incentive to DB, it would give more opportunities for people to spend on doubling up 5* crew drops, so please bring this to the team if you see it Shan or Pebble? Thanks in advance for your consideration.
The problem is that everything else is heavily biased towards those who pay and/or have been at it for an incredibly long time. I have no issue with that. I hope to get to both those points at some time. But right now my incentive for voyages is high so I work for crew that can manage it. Better ships and gauntlet crew will come with incredible luck or a lot of time. Voyages I can do now, even if I have only twice managed to reach the second dilemma. When I go for 3 and a half hours (standard for me), I take in about a hundred chronotons. I then use them to improve my crew. Before I discovered voyages with the chronoton boosts, I spent much less time in the game as I couldn't do as much. Now I have incentive to want more and to spend money. (Hoping for that at Christmas time.)
Agreed! And my "30% reduction" proposal there would still far outpace what you get from buying cadet tickets.
Only there would be difference in spending. I NEVER spent dil on cadet tickets pre-voyages. After Voyages I periodically extend Voyages and reliably buy at least one cadet ticket on credit day. If Voyages would be nerfed from 10 to 7 or same decrease in chron rewards then I would stop extending voyages and would stop buying credit tickets because without building that many items from chron and without fast-leveling crew to 80-100 where "tricky" items are I would have enough money for replications and item-building just from free tickets and daylies.
So if you buy credits straight for DIL, you get 36k fro 10 DIL
If you buy straight chrons for DIL you get 50 for 150 DIL
The exchange rate at that point is 3600 credits per 1 dilithium and 1/3 chron for 1 dilithium
To not have this be a just plain nerf (i.e. decrease what you get for the same money you pay for) you'd need to add 108k credits more per chroniton removed.
Or cadet tickets, you max out at 72k on the weekend Cadet Mission vs 25 chrons on the chron cadet mission. (as the cadet ticket prices are the same when you buy extra the ratio remains the same).
And 'better chances of a super-rare' sorry RNGs that aren't quantified (we still have no official odds of any drop rates of any items or characters that aren't guaranteed) remain an x value that cannot be validated in the equation.
So even a SLIGHT reduction in Chrons, if it's to not be a "Hey we are taking the same money but giving you less value when you extend" ... is gonna have to be replaced by a dump truck of credits.
So if you buy credits straight for DIL, you get 36k fro 10 DIL
If you buy straight chrons for DIL you get 50 for 150 DIL
The exchange rate at that point is 3600 credits per 1 dilithium and 1/3 chron for 1 dilithium
To not have this be a just plain nerf (i.e. decrease what you get for the same money you pay for) you'd need to add 108k credits more per chroniton removed.
Or cadet tickets, you max out at 72k on the weekend Cadet Mission vs 25 chrons on the chron cadet mission. (as the cadet ticket prices are the same when you buy extra the ratio remains the same).
And 'better chances of a super-rare' sorry RNGs that aren't quantified (we still have no official odds of any drop rates of any items or characters that aren't guaranteed) remain an x value that cannot be validated in the equation.
So even a SLIGHT reduction in Chrons, if it's to not be a "Hey we are taking the same money but giving you less value when you extend" ... is gonna have to be replaced by a dump truck of credits.
I currently spend regularly to extend voyages.
Let's also account for honor (since they said they would up character drop rates)
The best way I can think of turning credits to honor is the 10xcredit pack. On average, I say I get 75 honor per 90k credits (I have no solid data to back this number other than vague feelings from memory, I'm more than happy to be proven wrong here or offered a more accurate exchange rate).
That would give us 1200 credits : 1 honor
From the "straight up buy" ratios, we would equate 10,800 credits to 1 chron. That seems a little high, so I agree that the cadet comparison (72k credit : 25 chron) is more fair.
That gives us 2880 credits : 1 chron
That gives us the following ratios:
1 chron : 2880 credits : 2.4 honor
So, some mix of that would be acceptable? (This seems like a reasonable approach to me...)
So if you buy credits straight for DIL, you get 36k fro 10 DIL
If you buy straight chrons for DIL you get 50 for 150 DIL
The exchange rate at that point is 3600 credits per 1 dilithium and 1/3 chron for 1 dilithium
To not have this be a just plain nerf (i.e. decrease what you get for the same money you pay for) you'd need to add 108k credits more per chroniton removed.
Or cadet tickets, you max out at 72k on the weekend Cadet Mission vs 25 chrons on the chron cadet mission. (as the cadet ticket prices are the same when you buy extra the ratio remains the same).
And 'better chances of a super-rare' sorry RNGs that aren't quantified (we still have no official odds of any drop rates of any items or characters that aren't guaranteed) remain an x value that cannot be validated in the equation.
So even a SLIGHT reduction in Chrons, if it's to not be a "Hey we are taking the same money but giving you less value when you extend" ... is gonna have to be replaced by a dump truck of credits.
I currently spend regularly to extend voyages.
Let's also account for honor (since they said they would up character drop rates)
The best way I can think of turning credits to honor is the 10xcredit pack. On average, I say I get 75 honor per 90k credits (I have no solid data to back this number other than vague feelings from memory, I'm more than happy to be proven wrong here or offered a more accurate exchange rate).
That would give us 1200 credits : 1 honor
From the "straight up buy" ratios, we would equate 10,800 credits to 1 chron. That seems a little high, so I agree that the cadet comparison (72k credit : 25 chron) is more fair.
That gives us 2880 credits : 1 chron
That gives us the following ratios:
1 chron : 2880 credits : 2.4 honor
So, some mix of that would be acceptable? (This seems like a reasonable approach to me...)
Since they haven't even mentioned honor in the equation I don't feel its on their radar. They specifically stated, slightly less chrons, slightly more creds.
It would address the quantitative value portion, but it would leave an even worse taste in my mouth. Unless I plan on FFing 5 at a rapid fire (with DB specifically stating that honor is meant to be a trickle and they are not looking at any ways of increasing the spigot in the last operational update) I find it unrealistic.
If any of the two holiday events are going to be Faction, please don't extend them. I am Captain level 60 and still struggle to get the last few thresholds. I was looking forward to actually finishing all of them.
Adding a new threshold only gives you something else to earn with the extra day. You can still finish exactly what you normally finish, but now you have a chance to finish something extra on top of that.
Except they announced today they moved the goalposts for the EXISTING Threshold Rewards......
Scott
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
So if you buy credits straight for DIL, you get 36k fro 10 DIL
If you buy straight chrons for DIL you get 50 for 150 DIL
The exchange rate at that point is 3600 credits per 1 dilithium and 1/3 chron for 1 dilithium
To not have this be a just plain nerf (i.e. decrease what you get for the same money you pay for) you'd need to add 108k credits more per chroniton removed.
Or cadet tickets, you max out at 72k on the weekend Cadet Mission vs 25 chrons on the chron cadet mission. (as the cadet ticket prices are the same when you buy extra the ratio remains the same).
And 'better chances of a super-rare' sorry RNGs that aren't quantified (we still have no official odds of any drop rates of any items or characters that aren't guaranteed) remain an x value that cannot be validated in the equation.
So even a SLIGHT reduction in Chrons, if it's to not be a "Hey we are taking the same money but giving you less value when you extend" ... is gonna have to be replaced by a dump truck of credits.
I currently spend regularly to extend voyages.
Let's also account for honor (since they said they would up character drop rates)
The best way I can think of turning credits to honor is the 10xcredit pack. On average, I say I get 75 honor per 90k credits (I have no solid data to back this number other than vague feelings from memory, I'm more than happy to be proven wrong here or offered a more accurate exchange rate).
That would give us 1200 credits : 1 honor
From the "straight up buy" ratios, we would equate 10,800 credits to 1 chron. That seems a little high, so I agree that the cadet comparison (72k credit : 25 chron) is more fair.
That gives us 2880 credits : 1 chron
That gives us the following ratios:
1 chron : 2880 credits : 2.4 honor
So, some mix of that would be acceptable? (This seems like a reasonable approach to me...)
Since they haven't even mentioned honor in the equation I don't feel its on their radar. They specifically stated, slightly less chrons, slightly more creds.
It would address the quantitative value portion, but it would leave an even worse taste in my mouth. Unless I plan on FFing 5 at a rapid fire (with DB specifically stating that honor is meant to be a trickle and they are not looking at any ways of increasing the spigot in the last operational update) I find it unrealistic.
Might as well suggest equal value schematics.
They said more crew as well. Since crew=honour they did mention honour.
For your calculation interest: out of boredom (and because credits are essentially useless) I just dropped a little over 2 million on basic pulls. I got 30 crew (none of them 2* Kirk, Archer, or Old, who I was trying for--as far as it goes, I have never seen this elusive Gia Odo) and these 30 crew for 2 million up to 1,400 honor.
So if you buy credits straight for DIL, you get 36k fro 10 DIL
If you buy straight chrons for DIL you get 50 for 150 DIL
The exchange rate at that point is 3600 credits per 1 dilithium and 1/3 chron for 1 dilithium
To not have this be a just plain nerf (i.e. decrease what you get for the same money you pay for) you'd need to add 108k credits more per chroniton removed.
Or cadet tickets, you max out at 72k on the weekend Cadet Mission vs 25 chrons on the chron cadet mission. (as the cadet ticket prices are the same when you buy extra the ratio remains the same).
And 'better chances of a super-rare' sorry RNGs that aren't quantified (we still have no official odds of any drop rates of any items or characters that aren't guaranteed) remain an x value that cannot be validated in the equation.
So even a SLIGHT reduction in Chrons, if it's to not be a "Hey we are taking the same money but giving you less value when you extend" ... is gonna have to be replaced by a dump truck of credits.
I currently spend regularly to extend voyages.
Let's also account for honor (since they said they would up character drop rates)
The best way I can think of turning credits to honor is the 10xcredit pack. On average, I say I get 75 honor per 90k credits (I have no solid data to back this number other than vague feelings from memory, I'm more than happy to be proven wrong here or offered a more accurate exchange rate).
That would give us 1200 credits : 1 honor
From the "straight up buy" ratios, we would equate 10,800 credits to 1 chron. That seems a little high, so I agree that the cadet comparison (72k credit : 25 chron) is more fair.
That gives us 2880 credits : 1 chron
That gives us the following ratios:
1 chron : 2880 credits : 2.4 honor
So, some mix of that would be acceptable? (This seems like a reasonable approach to me...)
Since they haven't even mentioned honor in the equation I don't feel its on their radar. They specifically stated, slightly less chrons, slightly more creds.
It would address the quantitative value portion, but it would leave an even worse taste in my mouth. Unless I plan on FFing 5 at a rapid fire (with DB specifically stating that honor is meant to be a trickle and they are not looking at any ways of increasing the spigot in the last operational update) I find it unrealistic.
Might as well suggest equal value schematics.
From the original post: "...greater chance of obtaining crew..."
So, yes, they did implicitly mention increased Honor.
Also, your schematics comparison seems very off target. A long term trickle of schematics (or chronotons for that matter) will never directly lead to a 5* drop while honor will.
Personally, I value honor at a 1:1 ratio with chrons because I have no crew in my inventory I am rushing to level and have very easily kept up with the pace of new acquisitions. Additional chrons only add to stockpiles that might (not) get used in galaxy events.
Remember, the original post said “greater chance of getting crew”, not greater chance of getting 4* crew.
I suspect they'll just be increasing the drop rates for when a crew drops.. not which type of crew drops.. so you'll still get 1* crew in the first two hours, 2* crew hours 2-4, 3* crew hours 4-6 and 4* crew after 6 hours. So you'll end up getting more crew of all of those rarities.
So if you buy credits straight for DIL, you get 36k fro 10 DIL
If you buy straight chrons for DIL you get 50 for 150 DIL
The exchange rate at that point is 3600 credits per 1 dilithium and 1/3 chron for 1 dilithium
To not have this be a just plain nerf (i.e. decrease what you get for the same money you pay for) you'd need to add 108k credits more per chroniton removed.
Or cadet tickets, you max out at 72k on the weekend Cadet Mission vs 25 chrons on the chron cadet mission. (as the cadet ticket prices are the same when you buy extra the ratio remains the same).
And 'better chances of a super-rare' sorry RNGs that aren't quantified (we still have no official odds of any drop rates of any items or characters that aren't guaranteed) remain an x value that cannot be validated in the equation.
So even a SLIGHT reduction in Chrons, if it's to not be a "Hey we are taking the same money but giving you less value when you extend" ... is gonna have to be replaced by a dump truck of credits.
I currently spend regularly to extend voyages.
Let's also account for honor (since they said they would up character drop rates)
The best way I can think of turning credits to honor is the 10xcredit pack. On average, I say I get 75 honor per 90k credits (I have no solid data to back this number other than vague feelings from memory, I'm more than happy to be proven wrong here or offered a more accurate exchange rate).
That would give us 1200 credits : 1 honor
From the "straight up buy" ratios, we would equate 10,800 credits to 1 chron. That seems a little high, so I agree that the cadet comparison (72k credit : 25 chron) is more fair.
That gives us 2880 credits : 1 chron
That gives us the following ratios:
1 chron : 2880 credits : 2.4 honor
So, some mix of that would be acceptable? (This seems like a reasonable approach to me...)
Since they haven't even mentioned honor in the equation I don't feel its on their radar. They specifically stated, slightly less chrons, slightly more creds.
It would address the quantitative value portion, but it would leave an even worse taste in my mouth. Unless I plan on FFing 5 at a rapid fire (with DB specifically stating that honor is meant to be a trickle and they are not looking at any ways of increasing the spigot in the last operational update) I find it unrealistic.
Might as well suggest equal value schematics.
From the original post: "...greater chance of obtaining crew..."
So, yes, they did implicitly mention increased Honor.
Also, your schematics comparison seems very off target. A long term trickle of schematics (or chronotons for that matter) will never directly lead to a 5* drop while honor will.
Personally, I value honor at a 1:1 ratio with chrons because I have no crew in my inventory I am rushing to level and have very easily kept up with the pace of new acquisitions. Additional chrons only add to stockpiles that might (not) get used in galaxy events.
Actually honor and schematics have something in common. They don't help you much FE'ing crew like Chrons and credits do, as that is really (other than galaxy) their primary purpose.
I'm glad you are all caught up. I'm only recently getting to the point where I can level as much as I acquire, and this could directly impact that. I actually bought packs when new characters were released to at least get a 1/4 of a favorite cause i could actually hold on to them without playing "Lifeboat".
Im not some F2Per who never has bought slots--- but for a good portion of my first year in game, slots were where all the DIL went and I rarely went above a monthly card. Now, I've felt free enough to spend trying to nail down new Sisko, and went after (and got) a Mirror Phlox and I've felt like I got a good deal spending dil extending voyages.. They nerf this enough where I can't keep up and gotta go back to buying slots each month I'm cutting off the spigot of anything beyond monthly.
So while the honor deal seems good to you, it doesn't to me. Rather than the status quo, that's asking me to accept sacrificing my gameplay for yours with an active change. Sorry, don't like ya that much. I'll buy you a beer or an IBC but that's about my level of feeling generous.
That's why schematics are actually an apt analogy from my point of view and perspective. They help me just as much as an infinitesimal amount of honor. And when you get 770 a day free, offering 770 more at the sacrifice of 770 chrons (which is what a 1 to 1 will lead to eventually) it's just not appetizing here.
As a big Voyage supporter (and Gauntlet hater), I will be rather upset if DB messes with the chron drops in any way. As stated, and as we have seen nothing but deceit in how DB does not want anyone to know the odds/statistics/percentages of this GAMBLING game (which at any Casino is absolutely illegal not to post the odds), DB's "slight" in our favor is .001%. Slight in their favor is several full percentage points. They finally gave us something we needed, and now they are going to tighten the reigns because "oops, we gave too much". F that DB! Wake up already and run your company and this game professionally, not like deceitful Ferengi.
I fully document every Voyage. My average length has been just under 9½ hours. I get to 6½ to 7½ hours, and extend once or twice depending on how the drops are. My average chrons per minute is 1.11 - so if I run 10 hours (600 min), I average 665 chrons. It has been as low as 0.64 and high as 1.6. This number is somewhat dependent on what Dilemmas you are presented with (remember, they are randomly pulled from a pool and NOT based on the length of the Voyage or hour of your Dilemma). If the 5 or 6 dilemmas I encounter are all 30 chrons, that's 150-180 chrons. If the Dilemmas happen to be (2) 30 chron, (2) 50 chron, and (2) 75 chron, that is now 310 chrons (42% increase) just from Dilemmas. If I end up getting ship schematics or a 3*/4* component instead of chrons, now that drops my chrons.
So, let's say over a 12 hour Voyage, I get 6 dilemmas - 5 30 chron and 1 50 chron; that's 200 chrons. At 1.11 chrons per minute, I should get around 800 chrons total. Subtract the 200 from Dilemmas, that leaves 600 that drop in loot caches (every 2 min or so) between hazards. At 720 minutes / 2 min = 360 possible loot caches give or take. A loot cache will drop anything from chrons to credits to crew to components. Using the 1/4/10 rate, if 15% of the 180 loot caches after the 6 hour mark drop 10 chrons, that's 270 chrons (27 x 10). If they drop it to 1/4/9, then it would be 243 chrons. I could potentially live with this IF this is what they consider slight.
But really... don't mess with chrons!! You should look at rations. I am VIP 13 and allowed 4 replications/day. If I had the credits to replicate 4x5* items (1 million credits) a day, I would only use a maximum of 128 4* rations. I hardly ever do 5* items due to the cost leaving me with over 2,000 4* and 2000 3* rations.
As far as credits, if the changed the loot cache from 100 credits given with whatever loot drops (e.g. 10 chrons, 100 credits) to 300 credits, that would be 200 credits * 360 loot boxes over 12 hours = 72,000 extra creds per voyage. I feel this is where it should have been from the start.
I'm personally quite intrigued by Voyage-exclusive crew. I think that's quite a good idea.
Currently there are two Voyage-exclusive crew - Fierce Guinan and Colonel Worf and the odds of getting either in the 3-part dilemmas are low. If they add other exclusive crew, they would be put in other 3-part Dilemmas they create, not just given as a random drop.
i am now at 24hrs...i usually have 6 or 7 purples....i have just 3
Again, I'm back to defending Voyages at the moment... so do you have every 24 hour Voyage logged/tracked and showing 6-7 purples on every Voyage? If so, how many purples are from Dilemmas that drop 100/75/4* crew? How many are from random drops? Maybe the 12 Dilemmas you've had have been low 30/30/2* or mid 75/60/3* and the higher Dilemmas haven't been presented to you this Voyage. Maybe your loot cache drops are higher on trainers or rations this particular Voyage. There are a number of reasons for the fluctuations between Voyages. The only thing consistent is the inconsistency.
I can't imagine the early stage chrons being nerfed. There's hardly enough of them dropping to make a huge difference. Sure, you can pick up 300 chrons a day running two voyages to the second dilemma, but that's not going to win any events, it just loosens things up for low level players to start leveling much needed 4* crew.
I suspect they'll mess with the dilemmas if anything, make them more random. There will be more 3* and 4* crew drops, but the chrons will be swapped with credits. They'll put in more dilemma pathways to voyage only crew and so on. That way the standard loot box drops will not change much, and we'll still receive 20 odd for the first 2 hours, 64 or so for the next 2 hours, and 160 each two hours thereafter.
This will be the 'slight reduction' of chronitons you can expect to see. Hope I'm wrong.
Rereading the message. Seems like there just changing things slightly. For most of us trainers do not matter. Most of us would like more 4* crew. Lowering Chrons is going to have an effect on the voyage. The question will be, will we get more items. Items could make up for lowering the Chrons. Credits can help us to replicate legendary items again make up for lowering Chrons. Will have to see the new voyages rewards to know if this nerfing or making it even better.
i am now at 24hrs...i usually have 6 or 7 purples....i have just 3
Again, I'm back to defending Voyages at the moment... so do you have every 24 hour Voyage logged/tracked and showing 6-7 purples on every Voyage? If so, how many purples are from Dilemmas that drop 100/75/4* crew? How many are from random drops? Maybe the 12 Dilemmas you've had have been low 30/30/2* or mid 75/60/3* and the higher Dilemmas haven't been presented to you this Voyage. Maybe your loot cache drops are higher on trainers or rations this particular Voyage. There are a number of reasons for the fluctuations between Voyages. The only thing consistent is the inconsistency.
A system with high volatility still has an average. But you are right in the sense that one voyage of course proves nothing. A lot more voyages would be necessary.
But I also expect that the changes would bring nothing good. Well, less trainers are always good, since they are useless junk, but I don't expect to see improvements for non-payers like me. If you pay up to increase voyage time that might be the case, but my guess is that I will be seeing 4* crew drops no more (usually have them every 2-3 voyages, depending on how useful a combination the silver and gold skills are).
Comments
DB should know by now that whatever they do, someone will find a way to make it work and share it with the rest of us. What that will be depends on what "slight" is.
The ball's in their court, and whatever they do will have consequences. Glad I'm not them!
The difference is cadet missions are run for seconds and then are done and you have your crew back and available. Voyages locks your crew up for hours. You have to spend 6 hours just to get to the 10 drop point. That's already 8:24 total. Let's say you run to 7:00 without DIL, that's 9:48. Then you spend DIL to extend the voyage 2:00. That's 84 DIL you spent, but your voyage is now a commitment of 12:36. And you have to actively watch the voyage to be able to select the dilemma every 2 hours or that 12:36 becomes 13-14 hours. So by agreeing to lock up your crew for half a day, to actively play every 2 hours, and to wait 13 hours before getting your rewards, you get a better return on your DIL.
It's like a monthly card vs purchasing DIL. The monthly card provides better value, but it takes longer to accrue and requires more of you activity than by DIL up front.
Agreed! And my "30% reduction" proposal there would still far outpace what you get from buying cadet tickets.
I don't know about you, but I am sure I am not DB ideal player. I am not a whale and don't have large amounts of disposable income to put into a game. When I do spend money, I need to feel that I am getting the maximum benefit for my buck in terms of enjoyment and improving my position. I am sure that I am not the only one. So basically right now, I have been spending my money on the monthly dilithium, the offers when I get one I can afford and need, and to extend Voyages. For most of the stuff, I am priced out of the market ( or time portal) . I can't do the packs because I can't buy enough of them to make it worth my while, I don't buy the extra chronoton offers for the events because I know I can't buy enough to make a difference in my game. So basically, when the cost for me starts to outweigh the benefits and if DB only targets whales, it makes it just one less expense for me.
Reserving judgement.
About time. What took so long?
Bad. Typical vagueness from DB, likely spells a PR disaster.
Also bad. why remove him?
Vault is good news, other news is potentially bad to ugly.
Gauntlet crew means the special reward character you can win in Gauntlet. Currently it's Guinan, before it was Locutus.
Cardassian wishlist:
Tora Ziyal - Thanks!
Natima Lang
Empok Nor Garak
Tekeny Ghemor
Mira
Makbar
Dejar
Ulani Belor
I believe it's sarcasm implying that they don't do the gauntlet.
I hope changes to cryo chamber allow us to see space battle stats. Since changes to these stats are most likely not in wiki, the only way to have correct stats is to take the crew out and see what the stats are and then refreeze the crew.
Edit: it would also be nice to see cryoed crew on voyages to know what we are missing out on by having them frozen.
Less chronitons is not good, even when you say "slightly" ... that could be 10 purrcent, it could be 5 purrcent, literally anything below a quarter in my opinion. More credits is good for replications, I like that. However, at this point it might be a good idea to re-evaluate the shop item prices (faction stores). 250'000 credits for a green quality faction item is just out of hand! Replicating that will cost only 9'000 credits!
In regards to more crew dropping, could I humbly request that there be a small chance of 5* crew dropping from voyages? We have a small chance in the merit pulls from the portal, it would be nice to have a chance in the voyages too. It would give some of us added incentive to extend voyages, particularly if we already have most of the 4* crew. As an added incentive to DB, it would give more opportunities for people to spend on doubling up 5* crew drops, so please bring this to the team if you see it Shan or Pebble? Thanks in advance for your consideration.
If you buy straight chrons for DIL you get 50 for 150 DIL
The exchange rate at that point is 3600 credits per 1 dilithium and 1/3 chron for 1 dilithium
To not have this be a just plain nerf (i.e. decrease what you get for the same money you pay for) you'd need to add 108k credits more per chroniton removed.
Or cadet tickets, you max out at 72k on the weekend Cadet Mission vs 25 chrons on the chron cadet mission. (as the cadet ticket prices are the same when you buy extra the ratio remains the same).
And 'better chances of a super-rare' sorry RNGs that aren't quantified (we still have no official odds of any drop rates of any items or characters that aren't guaranteed) remain an x value that cannot be validated in the equation.
So even a SLIGHT reduction in Chrons, if it's to not be a "Hey we are taking the same money but giving you less value when you extend" ... is gonna have to be replaced by a dump truck of credits.
I currently spend regularly to extend voyages.
Let's also account for honor (since they said they would up character drop rates)
The best way I can think of turning credits to honor is the 10xcredit pack. On average, I say I get 75 honor per 90k credits (I have no solid data to back this number other than vague feelings from memory, I'm more than happy to be proven wrong here or offered a more accurate exchange rate).
That would give us 1200 credits : 1 honor
From the "straight up buy" ratios, we would equate 10,800 credits to 1 chron. That seems a little high, so I agree that the cadet comparison (72k credit : 25 chron) is more fair.
That gives us 2880 credits : 1 chron
That gives us the following ratios:
1 chron : 2880 credits : 2.4 honor
So, some mix of that would be acceptable? (This seems like a reasonable approach to me...)
Since they haven't even mentioned honor in the equation I don't feel its on their radar. They specifically stated, slightly less chrons, slightly more creds.
It would address the quantitative value portion, but it would leave an even worse taste in my mouth. Unless I plan on FFing 5 at a rapid fire (with DB specifically stating that honor is meant to be a trickle and they are not looking at any ways of increasing the spigot in the last operational update) I find it unrealistic.
Might as well suggest equal value schematics.
Except they announced today they moved the goalposts for the EXISTING Threshold Rewards......
Scott
They said more crew as well. Since crew=honour they did mention honour.
From the original post: "...greater chance of obtaining crew..."
So, yes, they did implicitly mention increased Honor.
Also, your schematics comparison seems very off target. A long term trickle of schematics (or chronotons for that matter) will never directly lead to a 5* drop while honor will.
Personally, I value honor at a 1:1 ratio with chrons because I have no crew in my inventory I am rushing to level and have very easily kept up with the pace of new acquisitions. Additional chrons only add to stockpiles that might (not) get used in galaxy events.
It wouldn't be fair to compare fusabe 4*s as they would be significantly more valuable.
He was a threshold reward in the Guilty as Charged event back in September. I would presume most of the players who were around then have him FFed.
I suspect they'll just be increasing the drop rates for when a crew drops.. not which type of crew drops.. so you'll still get 1* crew in the first two hours, 2* crew hours 2-4, 3* crew hours 4-6 and 4* crew after 6 hours. So you'll end up getting more crew of all of those rarities.
Actually honor and schematics have something in common. They don't help you much FE'ing crew like Chrons and credits do, as that is really (other than galaxy) their primary purpose.
I'm glad you are all caught up. I'm only recently getting to the point where I can level as much as I acquire, and this could directly impact that. I actually bought packs when new characters were released to at least get a 1/4 of a favorite cause i could actually hold on to them without playing "Lifeboat".
Im not some F2Per who never has bought slots--- but for a good portion of my first year in game, slots were where all the DIL went and I rarely went above a monthly card. Now, I've felt free enough to spend trying to nail down new Sisko, and went after (and got) a Mirror Phlox and I've felt like I got a good deal spending dil extending voyages.. They nerf this enough where I can't keep up and gotta go back to buying slots each month I'm cutting off the spigot of anything beyond monthly.
So while the honor deal seems good to you, it doesn't to me. Rather than the status quo, that's asking me to accept sacrificing my gameplay for yours with an active change. Sorry, don't like ya that much. I'll buy you a beer or an IBC but that's about my level of feeling generous.
That's why schematics are actually an apt analogy from my point of view and perspective. They help me just as much as an infinitesimal amount of honor. And when you get 770 a day free, offering 770 more at the sacrifice of 770 chrons (which is what a 1 to 1 will lead to eventually) it's just not appetizing here.
I fully document every Voyage. My average length has been just under 9½ hours. I get to 6½ to 7½ hours, and extend once or twice depending on how the drops are. My average chrons per minute is 1.11 - so if I run 10 hours (600 min), I average 665 chrons. It has been as low as 0.64 and high as 1.6. This number is somewhat dependent on what Dilemmas you are presented with (remember, they are randomly pulled from a pool and NOT based on the length of the Voyage or hour of your Dilemma). If the 5 or 6 dilemmas I encounter are all 30 chrons, that's 150-180 chrons. If the Dilemmas happen to be (2) 30 chron, (2) 50 chron, and (2) 75 chron, that is now 310 chrons (42% increase) just from Dilemmas. If I end up getting ship schematics or a 3*/4* component instead of chrons, now that drops my chrons.
So, let's say over a 12 hour Voyage, I get 6 dilemmas - 5 30 chron and 1 50 chron; that's 200 chrons. At 1.11 chrons per minute, I should get around 800 chrons total. Subtract the 200 from Dilemmas, that leaves 600 that drop in loot caches (every 2 min or so) between hazards. At 720 minutes / 2 min = 360 possible loot caches give or take. A loot cache will drop anything from chrons to credits to crew to components. Using the 1/4/10 rate, if 15% of the 180 loot caches after the 6 hour mark drop 10 chrons, that's 270 chrons (27 x 10). If they drop it to 1/4/9, then it would be 243 chrons. I could potentially live with this IF this is what they consider slight.
But really... don't mess with chrons!! You should look at rations. I am VIP 13 and allowed 4 replications/day. If I had the credits to replicate 4x5* items (1 million credits) a day, I would only use a maximum of 128 4* rations. I hardly ever do 5* items due to the cost leaving me with over 2,000 4* and 2000 3* rations.
As far as credits, if the changed the loot cache from 100 credits given with whatever loot drops (e.g. 10 chrons, 100 credits) to 300 credits, that would be 200 credits * 360 loot boxes over 12 hours = 72,000 extra creds per voyage. I feel this is where it should have been from the start.
Currently there are two Voyage-exclusive crew - Fierce Guinan and Colonel Worf and the odds of getting either in the 3-part dilemmas are low. If they add other exclusive crew, they would be put in other 3-part Dilemmas they create, not just given as a random drop.
Again, I'm back to defending Voyages at the moment... so do you have every 24 hour Voyage logged/tracked and showing 6-7 purples on every Voyage? If so, how many purples are from Dilemmas that drop 100/75/4* crew? How many are from random drops? Maybe the 12 Dilemmas you've had have been low 30/30/2* or mid 75/60/3* and the higher Dilemmas haven't been presented to you this Voyage. Maybe your loot cache drops are higher on trainers or rations this particular Voyage. There are a number of reasons for the fluctuations between Voyages. The only thing consistent is the inconsistency.
I suspect they'll mess with the dilemmas if anything, make them more random. There will be more 3* and 4* crew drops, but the chrons will be swapped with credits. They'll put in more dilemma pathways to voyage only crew and so on. That way the standard loot box drops will not change much, and we'll still receive 20 odd for the first 2 hours, 64 or so for the next 2 hours, and 160 each two hours thereafter.
This will be the 'slight reduction' of chronitons you can expect to see. Hope I'm wrong.
Check out our website to find out more:
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You are right.
Rereading the message. Seems like there just changing things slightly. For most of us trainers do not matter. Most of us would like more 4* crew. Lowering Chrons is going to have an effect on the voyage. The question will be, will we get more items. Items could make up for lowering the Chrons. Credits can help us to replicate legendary items again make up for lowering Chrons. Will have to see the new voyages rewards to know if this nerfing or making it even better.
A system with high volatility still has an average. But you are right in the sense that one voyage of course proves nothing. A lot more voyages would be necessary.
But I also expect that the changes would bring nothing good. Well, less trainers are always good, since they are useless junk, but I don't expect to see improvements for non-payers like me. If you pay up to increase voyage time that might be the case, but my guess is that I will be seeing 4* crew drops no more (usually have them every 2-3 voyages, depending on how useful a combination the silver and gold skills are).