There was no way in hell that ship ability was going to survive untouched. Come on.
When designing her, should DB have put their thinking cap on for the first time, and not released a ship ability like that? Of course: "If a player CAN have 3 or 4 Polywater Yars on their ship to end a ship battle 3 seconds after it starts, they WILL. " DB dropped the ball on designing and releasing that ability, but use your heads. It was NOT going to stay that way. I'm just surprised they did it so fast.
In addition, We may change or update parts or the whole of the Service (which may include Virtual Items as defined in "Virtual Items and Currency" below), including bug fixes and updates, game balancing, changes in the user interface or how you access content, and other reasonable changes that may add, alter or remove functionalities and features.
So, yes, it's a bait and switch (they advertised something and changed it soon after-the-fact). But it's pretty clearly allowed by the Terms of Service.
I will say it's a pretty bad business practice, but I'm not a lawyer so I won't speak to its legality.
Thank you. They included something illegal. rebalancing of something paid for can be an attempt to make bait and switch legal. This agreement is null and void for including something illegal as part of its agreement.
You can rebalance to make it better. But when someone spends money for something and they make it worse that is bait and switch.
Also, I had already mentioned a legal way of balancing (nerfing) That is to reduce cloak initializtion time.
In addition, We may change or update parts or the whole of the Service (which may include Virtual Items as defined in "Virtual Items and Currency" below), including bug fixes and updates, game balancing, changes in the user interface or how you access content, and other reasonable changes that may add, alter or remove functionalities and features.
So, yes, it's a bait and switch (they advertised something and changed it soon after-the-fact). But it's pretty clearly allowed by the Terms of Service.
I will say it's a pretty bad business practice, but I'm not a lawyer so I won't speak to its legality.
Just because they have a general disclaimer, does not mean that it makes things that are illegal into something legal. Also you may note it says, "reasonable" changes, I think that is open to interpretation, Im not sure how reasonable it is to rebalance an officer a few days after its released.
Not to mention, that it might actually cost them customers and game loyalty, which seems to be the more important issue.
So, just because you can do something? doesn't mean you should, and maybe they should think about actually offering something in return for the blatant misrepresentation.
Keep it civil Dudes.
Saying people are trolling or calling them names for expressing an opinion that you disagree with is going to get this thread closed. I think no one wants that because this is something that needs to be addressed.
You can disagree without making personal attacks. ( though I am often guilty myself of being bated in this way lol)
Keep it civil Dudes.
Saying people are trolling or calling them names for expressing an opinion that you disagree with is going to get this thread closed. I think no one wants that because this is something that needs to be addressed.
You can disagree without making personal attacks. ( though I am often guilty myself of being bated in this way lol)
that was civil, I was thinking much worse;) besides they will just delete the word anyway, even thou it doesn't make it less true;) and I agree with the other poster, it was a blatant trolling;) Also accusing us of being exploiters isn't exactly civil.
This is almost exactly the same thing that happened when people saw a developer mistake in credit trades a month ago. There are gamers who knew it was a mistake, yet they went ahead and exploited the mistake. Anyone who saw the YAR ship ability knew it was going to be a headache in the Arena. Yet, they went ahead and bought 3 Yars in order to blow everyone else out of the water.
The only reason I can be called an idiot is that I don't take advantage of such obvious imbalances. So, pardon me for laughing at people's incredulity when justice is served. And yes, DB shouldn't have put that YAR out there to begin with. But DB does a lot of things that make the game problematic.
If you think it's illegal, call your lawyer and sue DB for fraud if they don't reimburse you (since that's the crime you're actually alleging as "Bait and Switch" is actually a crime). Updating a character's abilities after-the-fact isn't, in itself, illegal (it's something they do all the time, in fact).
This couldn't really be much different from the faulty Dil pack.
Come join our fleet! We're a great social group that helps each other. You play the way you want to, participate as much as you want and if you want to be competitive, you can be! Check out our fleet ad:
Using a K'Tong that shoots through cloaks is an exploit, because the game mechanics were not intended for that to happen. Buying a crew with set stats, was not an exploit any more than getting Killy with her 400% damage @ 6s.
As I said before, a better fix would be to simply change her init time to 6s, or as a major overhaul, make crew limited to one per ship.
If you think it's illegal, call your lawyer and sue DB for fraud if they don't reimburse you (since that's the crime you're actually alleging as "Bait and Switch" is actually a crime). Updating a character's abilities after-the-fact isn't, in itself, illegal (it's something they do all the time, in fact).
No I Contact my States Attorney General i f I am not satisfied.
They love cases with high chance of publicity before elections.
I approve of this change. Although they could have instead added some seconds to the initialization. Like 2 more seconds. The biggest problem was the 2 seconds.
She was way overpowered for those saying she was not. At 2 sec with that 350% burst damage, she was unstoppable. Killy is balanced because at 6 seconds, there is also this thing called cloak. 2 sec burst did need a nerf.
However, I chased after her in packs and scored high enough to get a 1/5. Then I ranked her for her passives in ship. I absolutely would not have done any of that if the ship ability wasn't there. I would have hit threshold and stopped.
I wasted my time and money on a bait and switch. You cannot blame the players, this is DB creating content without actually playing their game. In one day, the arena was dominated with players having 2, 3, or even 4 Yars on their bridge. They didn't even need to be leveled up because that early burst (before cloak) outweighed anything else in the game.
Heck, it could have been balanced by preventing multiple duplicate copies of bridge crew on ship for arena / skirmish battles. That would have went a long way. Or, they could have increased time to 6 seconds like Killy so it match cloak.
As it is now, Degra is much better burst damage card than Polywater Yar. Higher burst, increases evasion, and doesn't decrease evasion.
This is bait and switch, the players should not have to pay for DB lack of quality control.
If you think it's illegal, call your lawyer and sue DB for fraud if they don't reimburse you (since that's the crime you're actually alleging as "Bait and Switch" is actually a crime). Updating a character's abilities after-the-fact isn't, in itself, illegal (it's something they do all the time, in fact).
No I Contact my States Attorney General i f I am not satisfied.
They love cases with high chance of publicity before elections.
If you think your AG is going to prosecute what is likely an out-of-state game developer for a couple dollars of pixels, you may be overestimating the publicity that could be generated. Look at how badly EA’s public image has suffered over the last few years of obvious cash grabs by way of overly fancy gambling simulations without one criminal or civil suit being filed.
Realistically, your AG is going to do a publicity-fueled crack down on drug use, homicides, drinking straws, or shoulder things that go up looonng before they make it around to a mobile game company.
She was way overpowered for those saying she was not. At 2 sec with that 350% burst damage, she was unstoppable. Killy is balanced because at 6 seconds, there is also this thing called cloak. 2 sec burst did need a nerf.
However, I chased after her in packs and scored high enough to get a 1/5. Then I ranked her for her passives in ship. I absolutely would not have done any of that if the ship ability wasn't there. I would have hit threshold and stopped.
I wasted my time and money on a bait and switch. You cannot blame the players, this is DB creating content without actually playing their game. In one day, the arena was dominated with players having 2, 3, or even 4 Yars on their bridge. They didn't even need to be leveled up because that early burst (before cloak) outweighed anything else in the game.
Heck, it could have been balanced by preventing multiple duplicate copies of bridge crew on ship for arena / skirmish battles. That would have went a long way. Or, they could have increased time to 6 seconds like Killy so it match cloak.
As it is now, Degra is much better burst damage card than Polywater Yar. Higher burst, increases evasion, and doesn't decrease evasion.
This is bait and switch, the players should not have to pay for DB lack of quality control.
I couldn't agree more. Not entirely sure, why people insist on blaming the wrong party. We should of known that it was going to be nerfed, we should of released it was a mistake? Um when does DB have to take responsibility for its own mistakes. Also the above posters, should realize, with the new laws, digital property is considered the same as physical property, so bait and switch, misrepresentation, and fraud, still apply, whether its worth the effort, is up to the individual.
If you think it's illegal, call your lawyer and sue DB for fraud if they don't reimburse you (since that's the crime you're actually alleging as "Bait and Switch" is actually a crime). Updating a character's abilities after-the-fact isn't, in itself, illegal (it's something they do all the time, in fact).
No I Contact my States Attorney General i f I am not satisfied.
They love cases with high chance of publicity before elections.
If you think your AG is going to prosecute what is likely an out-of-state game developer for a couple dollars of pixels, you may be overestimating the publicity that could be generated. Look at how badly EA’s public image has suffered over the last few years of obvious cash grabs by way of overly fancy gambling simulations without one criminal or civil suit being filed.
Realistically, your AG is going to do a publicity-fueled crack down on drug use, homicides, drinking straws, or shoulder things that go up looonng before they make it around to a mobile game company.
Wait an see. Ya, Star Trek would not lend itself to publicity.
It is not a legal case, it is just poor customer relations. As I said waaay at the top, I get why they did it. My issue was with the way they did it. Like it was a minor tweak. They did not bring her in line with the other big guns like Killy. They wrecked her. She is now FE and dead space on my crew roster. A little recognition of that by the company seems appropriate.
I took a look at what crew I will use on upcoming skirmish. Polywater does not make my crew. FFFE T'Mir, 4FFE Captain Scott, 1FFE Killy, and event specific bonus crew. What I ran last event but different bonus crew.
Sorry last skirmish I used Spock I should have used Scott.
I was planning a FFFE Mirror Spock, 3FFe Polywater ,1F no level Polywater, and event specific crew.
I would rather they leave overpowered characters alone and introduce new characters with counter abilities, rather than make a practice of stripping cards of their value after immediately after players bought/won them. Was Yar overpowered? Definitely. So what? That's why players bought her. It seems like there is ALWAYS some new, overpowered character in arena. Why shouldn't Yar get her day too? Why shouldn't players who bought/won her get to reap the benefits of their investment for 3 weeks until the new overpowered character shows up in arena?
I took a look at what crew I will use on upcoming skirmish. Polywater does not make my crew. T'Mir, Captain Scott, Killy, and event specific bonus crew
I was planning a FFFE Mirror Spock, 3FFe Polywater ,1F no level Polywater, and event specific crew.
I haven’t significantly changed my crew since the second or maybe third day of the first Skirmish event:
8 or 9 out of ten Skirmish battles are over within five seconds, the rest within ten or fifteen seconds. Could it be faster? Maybe. But this is fast enough for me and will be for every Skirmish event unless DB makes structural changes to the event, crew, or ship bonuses.
I took a look at what crew I will use on upcoming skirmish. Polywater does not make my crew. T'Mir, Captain Scott, Killy, and event specific bonus crew
I was planning a FFFE Mirror Spock, 3FFe Polywater ,1F no level Polywater, and event specific crew.
I haven’t significantly changed my crew since the second or maybe third day of the first Skirmish event:
8 or 9 out of ten Skirmish battles are over within five seconds, the rest within ten or fifteen seconds. Could it be faster? Maybe. But this is fast enough for me and will be for every Skirmish event unless DB makes structural changes to the event, crew, or ship bonuses.
I am not even sure what kind of results I would have had. My arena crew had Locutus setting up the attack. Without him I might have made Polywater 4F and added T'Mir or Killy.
I would rather they leave overpowered characters alone and introduce new characters with counter abilities, rather than make a practice of stripping cards of their value after immediately after players bought/won them. Was Yar overpowered? Definitely. So what? That's why players bought her. It seems like there is ALWAYS some new, overpowered character in arena. Why shouldn't Yar get her day too? Why shouldn't players who bought/won her get to reap the benefits of their investment for 3 weeks until the new overpowered character shows up in arena?
it's true, and since when has the arena ever been balanced? and technically wasn't tkuma and killy overpowered when they were first released, is that not why most people use them for battles. And honestly who gives a flip about the arena anyways, its rewards are outdated and useless. The main incentive for getting yar, other then to have her, was to help with skirmishes, so how does that unbalance it for anyone else? and kudos for people who can already do the skirmishes in under 6 secs, but maybe there are people out there that do not have your crew.
It is not a legal case, it is just poor customer relations. As I said waaay at the top, I get why they did it. My issue was with the way they did it. Like it was a minor tweak. They did not bring her in line with the other big guns like Killy. They wrecked her. She is now FE and dead space on my crew roster. A little recognition of that by the company seems appropriate.
I agree, with you, and frankly, this kinda burned away some goodwill gained by recent good moves by them like the portal upgrade.
Really thinking of spending some money elsewhere just for spite actually.
OK, we know what the issue is... what can DB do to fix the problem that would be fair?
Ultimate trust restoring fix:
Refund every single purchase for everyone in the last 7 days (from when event packs went live). Let everyone keep resources and rewards earned.
Realistic fix:
Submit a ticket if you feel you are impacted. No general apology or message issued.
OK, we know what the issue is... what can DB do to fix the problem that would be fair?
Restore Yar's arena ability and find an alternative way to rebalance arena. To be clear, I didn't spend money on Yar. But plenty of people did. They shouldn't be deprived of their investment.
OK, we know what the issue is... what can DB do to fix the problem that would be fair?
Restore Yar's arena ability and find an alternative way to rebalance arena. To be clear, I didn't spend money on Yar. But plenty of people did. They shouldn't be deprived of their investment.
There are many ways to overcome Yar with rebalancing.
One decrease initialization time of cloak.
Or , improve intialization time of evasion ability on crew.
Passive evasion improvement.
Any combination of above.
I dont think yar was overpowered. Her arena stats were great but everything else about her sucked. Big balloon pants, and terrible stats. DB should offer compensation to those who bought a bunch of her. If they dont want to do refunds then just allow people to exchange her for a new 5* they release every week.
I always finish top 1000 in faction. Because of Polywaters ship abilities I decided I would go for top 15. I realized I needed more time boosts, so i bought the 4.99 offer twice. I also got 4 extra cadet tickets for Thursday when I normally only do two. I needed more time boosts and spent somewhere around 1600 dil. to get them. I have no more *** , ****, ***** time boosts left.
I would be satisfied if they replaced my copies of Polywater with Gary Seven.
Others, might need different compensation
Compensations that had crossed my mind. Iconic crew with the 4000 dil. and removal of DYC Polywater replaced with some other Legendary level 60 and one item equipped. I have actually leveled my 1F Yar to 60 and had equipped the Tequila.
So all I would be giving up is my 1F copy of Polywater.
I would keep the 3FFE Polywater and FFFE Admiral Ross and FFFE Mirror Garak (I airlocked the FF Garak from rewards) these I got in my attempt to get Polywater from cadet offers 24.99 and 9.99
Comments
When designing her, should DB have put their thinking cap on for the first time, and not released a ship ability like that? Of course: "If a player CAN have 3 or 4 Polywater Yars on their ship to end a ship battle 3 seconds after it starts, they WILL. " DB dropped the ball on designing and releasing that ability, but use your heads. It was NOT going to stay that way. I'm just surprised they did it so fast.
Thank you. They included something illegal. rebalancing of something paid for can be an attempt to make bait and switch legal. This agreement is null and void for including something illegal as part of its agreement.
You can rebalance to make it better. But when someone spends money for something and they make it worse that is bait and switch.
Also, I had already mentioned a legal way of balancing (nerfing) That is to reduce cloak initializtion time.
Just because they have a general disclaimer, does not mean that it makes things that are illegal into something legal. Also you may note it says, "reasonable" changes, I think that is open to interpretation, Im not sure how reasonable it is to rebalance an officer a few days after its released.
Not to mention, that it might actually cost them customers and game loyalty, which seems to be the more important issue.
So, just because you can do something? doesn't mean you should, and maybe they should think about actually offering something in return for the blatant misrepresentation.
Saying people are trolling or calling them names for expressing an opinion that you disagree with is going to get this thread closed. I think no one wants that because this is something that needs to be addressed.
You can disagree without making personal attacks. ( though I am often guilty myself of being bated in this way lol)
that was civil, I was thinking much worse;) besides they will just delete the word anyway, even thou it doesn't make it less true;) and I agree with the other poster, it was a blatant trolling;) Also accusing us of being exploiters isn't exactly civil.
The only reason I can be called an idiot is that I don't take advantage of such obvious imbalances. So, pardon me for laughing at people's incredulity when justice is served. And yes, DB shouldn't have put that YAR out there to begin with. But DB does a lot of things that make the game problematic.
https://forum.disruptorbeam.com/stt/discussion/5023/qh-the-oldest-fleet-in-timelines-l91-starbase-daily-targets-met
As I said before, a better fix would be to simply change her init time to 6s, or as a major overhaul, make crew limited to one per ship.
No I Contact my States Attorney General i f I am not satisfied.
They love cases with high chance of publicity before elections.
However, I chased after her in packs and scored high enough to get a 1/5. Then I ranked her for her passives in ship. I absolutely would not have done any of that if the ship ability wasn't there. I would have hit threshold and stopped.
I wasted my time and money on a bait and switch. You cannot blame the players, this is DB creating content without actually playing their game. In one day, the arena was dominated with players having 2, 3, or even 4 Yars on their bridge. They didn't even need to be leveled up because that early burst (before cloak) outweighed anything else in the game.
Heck, it could have been balanced by preventing multiple duplicate copies of bridge crew on ship for arena / skirmish battles. That would have went a long way. Or, they could have increased time to 6 seconds like Killy so it match cloak.
As it is now, Degra is much better burst damage card than Polywater Yar. Higher burst, increases evasion, and doesn't decrease evasion.
This is bait and switch, the players should not have to pay for DB lack of quality control.
If you think your AG is going to prosecute what is likely an out-of-state game developer for a couple dollars of pixels, you may be overestimating the publicity that could be generated. Look at how badly EA’s public image has suffered over the last few years of obvious cash grabs by way of overly fancy gambling simulations without one criminal or civil suit being filed.
Realistically, your AG is going to do a publicity-fueled crack down on drug use, homicides, drinking straws, or shoulder things that go up looonng before they make it around to a mobile game company.
I couldn't agree more. Not entirely sure, why people insist on blaming the wrong party. We should of known that it was going to be nerfed, we should of released it was a mistake? Um when does DB have to take responsibility for its own mistakes. Also the above posters, should realize, with the new laws, digital property is considered the same as physical property, so bait and switch, misrepresentation, and fraud, still apply, whether its worth the effort, is up to the individual.
Wait an see. Ya, Star Trek would not lend itself to publicity.
Sorry last skirmish I used Spock I should have used Scott.
I was planning a FFFE Mirror Spock, 3FFe Polywater ,1F no level Polywater, and event specific crew.
I haven’t significantly changed my crew since the second or maybe third day of the first Skirmish event:
-Borg Cube
-Killy
-Locutus
-Valeris
-maximum event bonus crew (Darth Bashir, Weyoun, now Ru’afo)
8 or 9 out of ten Skirmish battles are over within five seconds, the rest within ten or fifteen seconds. Could it be faster? Maybe. But this is fast enough for me and will be for every Skirmish event unless DB makes structural changes to the event, crew, or ship bonuses.
I am not even sure what kind of results I would have had. My arena crew had Locutus setting up the attack. Without him I might have made Polywater 4F and added T'Mir or Killy.
it's true, and since when has the arena ever been balanced? and technically wasn't tkuma and killy overpowered when they were first released, is that not why most people use them for battles. And honestly who gives a flip about the arena anyways, its rewards are outdated and useless. The main incentive for getting yar, other then to have her, was to help with skirmishes, so how does that unbalance it for anyone else? and kudos for people who can already do the skirmishes in under 6 secs, but maybe there are people out there that do not have your crew.
I agree, with you, and frankly, this kinda burned away some goodwill gained by recent good moves by them like the portal upgrade.
Really thinking of spending some money elsewhere just for spite actually.
Bait
and
switch.
Ultimate trust restoring fix:
Refund every single purchase for everyone in the last 7 days (from when event packs went live). Let everyone keep resources and rewards earned.
Realistic fix:
Submit a ticket if you feel you are impacted. No general apology or message issued.
Restore Yar's arena ability and find an alternative way to rebalance arena. To be clear, I didn't spend money on Yar. But plenty of people did. They shouldn't be deprived of their investment.
There are many ways to overcome Yar with rebalancing.
One decrease initialization time of cloak.
Or , improve intialization time of evasion ability on crew.
Passive evasion improvement.
Any combination of above.
This is Ridiculous.
Flagrant bait and switch.
If it was an error, they should have put a PSA pop up the second they realized there was an error if they couldn't fix it instantly.
It was the one thing that made her worth getting, because her over all stats are on par with 2 year old, head gear Sisko.
You cannot sell a product and then change the product 7 days later in a backhand move like this and surely not to this extent.
Sure it threw off balance.
You've been running this game 2 and a half years, you can't say it was unforseen.
There should be some form of compensation in someway. Boosting her base stats for instance, take something, give something.
Failing that,
Then yeah.. I think at the least speed boosts should be returned as an olive branch.
I would be satisfied if they replaced my copies of Polywater with Gary Seven.
Others, might need different compensation
Compensations that had crossed my mind. Iconic crew with the 4000 dil. and removal of DYC Polywater replaced with some other Legendary level 60 and one item equipped. I have actually leveled my 1F Yar to 60 and had equipped the Tequila.
So all I would be giving up is my 1F copy of Polywater.
I would keep the 3FFE Polywater and FFFE Admiral Ross and FFFE Mirror Garak (I airlocked the FF Garak from rewards) these I got in my attempt to get Polywater from cadet offers 24.99 and 9.99
I spent 68.95 and about 2500 dil.