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Dissatisfied Customer - pulling the rug out on Yar

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  • PenguinJimPenguinJim ✭✭✭✭✭
    What's sad about this is that I was riding high at the time of the announcement.

    I'd been saving chrons and looking forward to the Skirmish (I'm a sadist).

    I'd had a few final stars for super-rares drop over the weekend.

    I'd picked up Honey Bare a few hours earlier.

    And I'd just managed to compete my new Yar to help out with the Skirmish!

    This should be one of my best STT weeks of the year, but having something I'd worked for snuffed out, without apology, before I've even used it just sours everything.

    Of course, they're going to fix it properly, but it feels uncomfortable while it's still up in the air.
  • al103al103 ✭✭✭
    edited August 2018
    WaldoMag wrote: »
    Not sure how you got your Yars, but however you got them all, explain what you went through to get them, money used dil. spent, boosts if you got her as reward.
    Thing is - I bought pack to get Yar and did NOT got her. I didn't cared about pack otherwise. If Yar stayed strong it would've been "tough luck" moment. But since nerf it means that I spent dil on something that wasn't worth it even if I won.

    Got her from event anyway but that was pretty normal expenditure not worth ticket.
  • Average GuyAverage Guy ✭✭✭✭
    I really don’t mean to laugh at the pain of others but, LOL!!! They should never have given her that outlandish ship ability to begin with, and if they hadn’t done something so impulsive and ill-thought-out, then they wouldn’t have THIS problem now. DB really loves to shoot itself in the foot sometimes.

    This is the problem. I have been supportive of DB in the past but there needs to be some testing before skills are handed out especially if it is something over the top. A lot of people spent good money to get her including myself. This is extremely unacceptable to rebalance a character 48 hours after the event is completed because the character wasn't tested properly before release. I understand glitches happen but this isn't a glitch. People were sold on something and then it was taken away because of poor planning.

    I would also like to ask players not to bring Shan's vacation plans into this discussion. Everyone is entitled to some time off. The issue instead is that the boards aren't likely to be monitored as per usual so our complaints are likely falling on deaf ears this week.
  • Average GuyAverage Guy ✭✭✭✭
    if you were around when Chaotica was released, you had to have known this was coming. It was pretty obvious a nerf would be coming.

    If this isn't the first time, then we really have an issue here that DB needs to address.
  • WaldoMagWaldoMag ✭✭✭✭✭
    al103 wrote: »
    WaldoMag wrote: »
    Not sure how you got your Yars, but however you got them all, explain what you went through to get them, money used dil. spent, boosts if you got her as reward.
    Thing is - I bought pack to get Yar and did NOT got her. I didn't cared about pack otherwise. If Yar stayed strong it would've been "tough luck" moment. But since nerf it means that I spent dil on something that wasn't worth it even if I won.

    Got her from event anyway but that was pretty normal expenditure not worth ticket.

    Okay got it.
    This is the way to explain it.
    You bought a pack because you wanted Yar because of her ship ability.
    You would never have spent the dil. for the pack with the new changed ship ability. You feel you deserve the dil. back for a purchase you never would have made.
  • [7TW] UnkieB[7TW] UnkieB ✭✭✭✭✭
    if you were around when Chaotica was released, you had to have known this was coming. It was pretty obvious a nerf would be coming.

    If this isn't the first time, then we really have an issue here that DB needs to address.

    A week or two after Chaotica was released they nerfed his burst damage from 750% to 400%. Lots of people spent a bunch to get him based on that ability. Can't remember if anything else was changed on him at the time or not.

    In that case all/most crew with burst damage were nerfed (I think there were a couple others with 750% but had triggers while Chaotica didn't), but DB had to have already planned the nerfs when they released Chaotica as they would have already been working on the update, and a lot of people were not happy.
    https://forums.disruptorbeam.com/stt/viewthread/54453/
  • ~peregrine~~peregrine~ ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2018
    I really don’t mean to laugh at the pain of others but, LOL!!! They should never have given her that outlandish ship ability to begin with, and if they hadn’t done something so impulsive and ill-thought-out, then they wouldn’t have THIS problem now. DB really loves to shoot itself in the foot sometimes.

    This is the problem. I have been supportive of DB in the past but there needs to be some testing before skills are handed out especially if it is something over the top. A lot of people spent good money to get her including myself. This is extremely unacceptable to rebalance a character 48 hours after the event is completed because the character wasn't tested properly before release. I understand glitches happen but this isn't a glitch. People were sold on something and then it was taken away because of poor planning.

    I would also like to ask players not to bring Shan's vacation plans into this discussion. Everyone is entitled to some time off. The issue instead is that the boards aren't likely to be monitored as per usual so our complaints are likely falling on deaf ears this week.

    Cross-posting from another thread (“Shan’s psa”):
    I'm very excited to hear I'll be getting bathroom breaks.
    I'm very excited to hear I'll be getting bathroom breaks.

    Maybe you could Mozy on over to the thread where there are 100+ comments about how terribly the Polywater Yar nerf was handled and weigh in there.

    ... so perhaps we will hear something from @DealWithItJazzRiker on Thursday (16 August 2018) during normal business hours in USA Eastern Time Zone.

    In other words, don’t light the torches just yet, but do keep sharpening the pitchforks. 😈
    "In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
  • Data1001Data1001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2018
    For a collection of people that generally claim to not care about arena (too boring!), or ships (just need one maxed 5* for everything!), or skirmishes (just use 1 bonus crew and get max points!)... you guys and gals are seriously up in arms about ship ability stats. When is the last time that could be said?

    Yes, I get it. Bait and switch. Not cool. But even with skirmishes, ship battles are a minor part of this game. Keep it in perspective. Absolutely ask for compensation if you feel like it - and good luck.

    Pretty much agree. I'm just amazed that so many people (apparently) wasted so many resources for the sole reason of getting someone who was good in the Arena, of all places — the one part of the game with the absolute worst ROI for time spent. But heck, even taking away the time it takes to run those battles — even if you could warp them, they still have the worst rewards in the game.


    Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
    ~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
  • WaldoMagWaldoMag ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2018
    Data1001 wrote: »
    For a collection of people that generally claim to not care about arena (too boring!), or ships (just need one maxed 5* for everything!), or skirmishes (just use 1 bonus crew and get max points!)... you guys and gals are seriously up in arms about ship ability stats. When is the last time that could be said?

    Yes, I get it. Bait and switch. Not cool. But even with skirmishes, ship battles are a minor part of this game. Keep it in perspective. Absolutely ask for compensation if you feel like it - and good luck.

    Pretty much agree. I'm just amazed that so many people (apparently) wasted so many resources for the sole reason of getting someone who was good in the Arena, of all places — the one part of the game with the absolute worst ROI for time spent. But heck, even taking away the time it takes to run those battles — even if you could warp them, they still have the worst rewards in the game.


    I did not go after her for arena. I went after her for skirmish

    Edit:
    Actually I am amazed that so many people were mad at more than one Yar being in arena. So many must have been mad that DB decided to nerf Yar.
  • WaldoMagWaldoMag ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2018
    if you were around when Chaotica was released, you had to have known this was coming. It was pretty obvious a nerf would be coming.

    If this isn't the first time, then we really have an issue here that DB needs to address.

    A week or two after Chaotica was released they nerfed his burst damage from 750% to 400%. Lots of people spent a bunch to get him based on that ability. Can't remember if anything else was changed on him at the time or not.

    In that case all/most crew with burst damage were nerfed (I think there were a couple others with 750% but had triggers while Chaotica didn't), but DB had to have already planned the nerfs when they released Chaotica as they would have already been working on the update, and a lot of people were not happy.
    https://forums.disruptorbeam.com/stt/viewthread/54453/

    I could have sworn Kal-if-fee Spock had been nerfed too but his init Time was incredibly bad. I think they improved that but he still was not good.

    I could not verify in wiki even though it looks like they have this history. All I could find was a reduction from 400% to what it is now. I thought he had a 750% instant damage but an initialization time around 17 seconds.

    I looked through post it agrees with wiki history. I must have been remembering Shinzon. I will have to look in wiki and see if he had an initialization time change too.
  • ~peregrine~~peregrine~ ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2018
    WaldoMag wrote: »
    Data1001 wrote: »
    For a collection of people that generally claim to not care about arena (too boring!), or ships (just need one maxed 5* for everything!), or skirmishes (just use 1 bonus crew and get max points!)... you guys and gals are seriously up in arms about ship ability stats. When is the last time that could be said?

    Yes, I get it. Bait and switch. Not cool. But even with skirmishes, ship battles are a minor part of this game. Keep it in perspective. Absolutely ask for compensation if you feel like it - and good luck.

    Pretty much agree. I'm just amazed that so many people (apparently) wasted so many resources for the sole reason of getting someone who was good in the Arena, of all places — the one part of the game with the absolute worst ROI for time spent. But heck, even taking away the time it takes to run those battles — even if you could warp them, they still have the worst rewards in the game.


    I did not go after her for arena. I went after her for skirmish

    Edit:
    Actually I am amazed that so many people were mad at more than one Yar being in arena. So many must have been mad that DB decided to nerf Yar.

    Nah, there were players with multiple Killys in Arena/Admiral for weeks & DB didn’t nerf her, but I agree with you.

    I also went after Yar solely for use in Skirmish events, but I spent no money for her specifically. I did use 650 of saved dilithium for the pack, knowing the risk of not pulling her card, but I wound up with the 4* Admiral Ross & was happy to FF him without using Honor points. I did rank in the top 1000, so my 1 copy of Yar was via gameplay.

    I suppose the chronitons & credits I used to level up Yar could be my compensation for the nerf, since I could have used those resources on other cards that are more valuable to me (e.g., good on Voyages). However, I did not need to FE the card in order to take advantage of her active ship ability, so that’s on me. C’est la vie.

    I think @eXo | SilverRose put it best, in that the timing of the nerf is more egregious than the actual reduction in utility. Honestly, at this point, I do not know how DB could adequately compensate for all of the bad faith it has created now & in the past amongst its paying customers, myself included.

    It’s just frakking sad. 👿
    "In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
  • PenguinJimPenguinJim ✭✭✭✭✭
    I didn't buy packs last night when they went live either, I won't be buying any in the future.
    Heh, I was intending to jump on a $10 pack if Phlox was a half-decent 3-skiller (he is!) and Iggy wasn't completely dire (he isn't!), but I've also lost interest. It would have been my second ever Event Pack $ spend.

    But let's see how this is resolved, first.

    Of course they don't want to lose money. I'm happy for them to replace my Yar with a roughly-equivalent card or even a legendary citation, rather than a refund. While I can understand (but not sympathize!) with them not wanting to hand out cash refunds, it seems bonkers that DB'd fail to compensate adequately in one of the many ways available to them that would cost them nearly nothing.

    Made people's extra mPicard useless? Legendary citation.

    Made people's Yar useless? Gee, what could they possibly offer..?
  • Mr. LincolnMr. Lincoln ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2018
    A bad precedent is still bad, just because it has been established doesn't make it automatically good
  • Cpt. CavemanCpt. Caveman ✭✭✭✭
    Thurthorad wrote: »
    Perhaps when cards are released in future that are seen as OP that people will expect a nerf. I'd like that. Community feedback on game balance is a great thing to have.

    Very good point. Do I bother buying packs for Gary Seven? Or, will he be nerfed because he's so obviously better than anyone else released previous to him?

  • Peachtree RexPeachtree Rex ✭✭✭✭✭
    A bad precedent is still bad, just because it has been established doesn't make it automatically good

    Straw man. No one is arguing it's good perpetuate a bad process. Just expressing that it is likely they will do what they've done in the past, regardless of our feelings on it.
  • Mr. LincolnMr. Lincoln ✭✭✭✭✭
    Fair enough, just seems a bad precedent to post something that might even suggest this was a good thing to do. Not that i's likely to affect their decision either way but why give them anything they can point at?
  • Thurthorad wrote: »
    Perhaps when cards are released in future that are seen as OP that people will expect a nerf. I'd like that. Community feedback on game balance is a great thing to have.

    Very good point. Do I bother buying packs for Gary Seven? Or, will he be nerfed because he's so obviously better than anyone else released previous to him?

    Exactly. Just like Picardgate that had people questioning for months whether DB is gonna throw an extra copy at the mega legendary, we'll all be wondering if that fancy new crew member we just have to have is going to be nerfed as soon as the packs are gone. This isn't good for customer confidence.
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  • I didnt want vampire yar (terrible art bad stats), but i "HAD" to have one for skirmish/arena purposes. So DB tricked me into getting this card and the competition was especially fierce, so lots of boosters wasted and ofcourse 4 days of sleep. All completely useless ofcourse because the second the event ende DB decided to make my card totally useless. No clue what to do now... lots of chrons dill time sleep all for naught
  • Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
    I was around at the time of Chaotica, but not remotely competitive enough to get anywhere near him in the rank rewards and I was strictly VIP 0/FTP so I didn't get any packs. Consequently, I paid no attention whatsoever to any outrage because that was a problem for a class of players that I didn't belong to.

    I didn't hit the top 1000 for this event, either, and while I did get two event packs with dilithium, I didn't pull Yar, so I almost didn't pay any attention to this nerf.
  • YateballYateball ✭✭✭✭✭
    I was around at the time of Chaotica, but not remotely competitive enough to get anywhere near him in the rank rewards and I was strictly VIP 0/FTP so I didn't get any packs. Consequently, I paid no attention whatsoever to any outrage because that was a problem for a class of players that I didn't belong to.

    I didn't hit the top 1000 for this event, either, and while I did get two event packs with dilithium, I didn't pull Yar, so I almost didn't pay any attention to this nerf.

    What were Chaotica's original abilities?
  • PallidynePallidyne ✭✭✭✭✭
    PenguinJim wrote: »
    What's sad about this is that I was riding high at the time of the announcement.

    I'd been saving chrons and looking forward to the Skirmish (I'm a sadist).

    I'd had a few final stars for super-rares drop over the weekend.

    I'd picked up Honey Bare a few hours earlier.

    And I'd just managed to compete my new Yar to help out with the Skirmish!

    This should be one of my best STT weeks of the year, but having something I'd worked for snuffed out, without apology, before I've even used it just sours everything.

    Of course, they're going to fix it properly, but it feels uncomfortable while it's still up in the air.

    You mean masochist right?
  • PallidynePallidyne ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thurthorad wrote: »
    This is a good precedent. The worst thing that can happen in freemium games is that the company surrenders game balance because they daren't nerf cards people have paid for. Their response is also decent. If you spent money, they'll give you the dil equivalent. It's not as good as it could have been, but given the scale, it's probably a fine response.

    What's also good is that it shows the community that they do care about balance, and I find that heartening.

    Perhaps when cards are released in future that are seen as OP that people will expect a nerf. I'd like that. Community feedback on game balance is a great thing to have.

    How about just STOP and THINK THINGS THROUGH before releasing a character.
    Seriously. It feels like they did about as much playtesting as I did on the balance beam... and trust me I ain't going to the Olympics.

    I used to offer Star Trek viewings for those DB employees that risked to come near. Now it's time for Sesame Street. Cookie Monster has a lil series called "Smart Cookies" where a problem is presented and he has to be talked off his impulsive runs to stop, think and work things out. Is Cookie Monster running QC?
  • *Nomad* {PoF}*Nomad* {PoF} ✭✭✭✭✭
    Pallidyne wrote: »
    Thurthorad wrote: »
    This is a good precedent. The worst thing that can happen in freemium games is that the company surrenders game balance because they daren't nerf cards people have paid for. Their response is also decent. If you spent money, they'll give you the dil equivalent. It's not as good as it could have been, but given the scale, it's probably a fine response.

    What's also good is that it shows the community that they do care about balance, and I find that heartening.

    Perhaps when cards are released in future that are seen as OP that people will expect a nerf. I'd like that. Community feedback on game balance is a great thing to have.

    How about just STOP and THINK THINGS THROUGH before releasing a character.
    Seriously. It feels like they did about as much playtesting as I did on the balance beam... and trust me I ain't going to the Olympics.

    I used to offer Star Trek viewings for those DB employees that risked to come near. Now it's time for Sesame Street. Cookie Monster has a lil series called "Smart Cookies" where a problem is presented and he has to be talked off his impulsive runs to stop, think and work things out. Is Cookie Monster running QC?

    Not Cookie Monster, Grimace.....

    spp0h4f06vo5.jpg
    Founding ADM - PoF family of fleets (POF, POF2 & POF3) - Dear TP: Non sequitur. Your facts are uncoordinated.
  • Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yateball wrote: »
    I was around at the time of Chaotica, but not remotely competitive enough to get anywhere near him in the rank rewards and I was strictly VIP 0/FTP so I didn't get any packs. Consequently, I paid no attention whatsoever to any outrage because that was a problem for a class of players that I didn't belong to.

    I didn't hit the top 1000 for this event, either, and while I did get two event packs with dilithium, I didn't pull Yar, so I almost didn't pay any attention to this nerf.

    What were Chaotica's original abilities?

    Originally, he dealt 750% damage. That was quickly downgraded to 400%. Here's a thread from the old forum. You'll find a lot of the same things said there that have been said here about Polywater Yar. I linked to a comment where talk about the ship ability nerf began.
  • ThurthoradThurthorad ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thurthorad wrote: »
    This is a good precedent. The worst thing that can happen in freemium games is that the company surrenders game balance because they daren't nerf cards people have paid for. Their response is also decent. If you spent money, they'll give you the dil equivalent. It's not as good as it could have been, but given the scale, it's probably a fine response.

    What's also good is that it shows the community that they do care about balance, and I find that heartening.

    Perhaps when cards are released in future that are seen as OP that people will expect a nerf. I'd like that. Community feedback on game balance is a great thing to have.

    It's more complicated than this, though. On Monday, I bought my Iconic Crew offers, partly for the dil to do event pulls for Yar. I got two copies of Yar that I leveled to 90 as of the time of the nerf. I also made 6 or 7 event pulls via dil that did not give a Yar.

    When I contacted support I was told:
    - They would refund the dil for the packs with Yar and reverse those (take away the crew and schematics)
    - They would not refund the other event pulls even though I wouldn't have done them without the Yar being there
    - They won't replace the crons or mats that were used to level Yar to 90

    I suggested that they remove the two Yars, replace them with two honorable citations, and refund the ~3,000 crons that I used to level her, but they have ignored my request.

    So, no, in my opinion replacing the packs that had a Yar with the equivalent dil is not enough.

    The fact that they sold the un-nerfed Yar up until the very second the nerf went live shows that they were not operating in good faith. They prepared the nerf during the time the Yar packs were being sold. They knew they were going to nerf her and chose not to tell us until we could no longer pay real money for her. This is a problem. They are also not making people whole who used other resources to level her, etc.

    EDIT: Just to be clear - they absolutely needed to nerf her and shouldn't have released her the way she was in the first place. But the way they're handling communication and compensation is unacceptable.

    Yep, you're right. Their response is insufficient.
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