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Dissatisfied Customer - pulling the rug out on Yar

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  • Navarch Navarch ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thurthorad wrote: »
    Perhaps when cards are released in future that are seen as OP that people will expect a nerf. I'd like that. Community feedback on game balance is a great thing to have.

    Very good point. Do I bother buying packs for Gary Seven? Or, will he be nerfed because he's so obviously better than anyone else released previous to him?

    Exactly. Just like Picardgate that had people questioning for months whether DB is gonna throw an extra copy at the mega legendary, we'll all be wondering if that fancy new crew member we just have to have is going to be nerfed as soon as the packs are gone. This isn't good for customer confidence.

    And poor consumer confidence is bad for sales. If you don’t believe that DB will keep the strength of a crew once it’s no longer available for sale, why buy it?
  • ThurthoradThurthorad ✭✭✭✭✭
    Navarch wrote: »
    Thurthorad wrote: »
    Perhaps when cards are released in future that are seen as OP that people will expect a nerf. I'd like that. Community feedback on game balance is a great thing to have.

    Very good point. Do I bother buying packs for Gary Seven? Or, will he be nerfed because he's so obviously better than anyone else released previous to him?

    Exactly. Just like Picardgate that had people questioning for months whether DB is gonna throw an extra copy at the mega legendary, we'll all be wondering if that fancy new crew member we just have to have is going to be nerfed as soon as the packs are gone. This isn't good for customer confidence.

    And poor consumer confidence is bad for sales. If you don’t believe that DB will keep the strength of a crew once it’s no longer available for sale, why buy it?

    I've played a number of games with DBs business model. Every company makes errors. It's hard to think of everything in advance. The worst companies serially release broken characters, each one trying to be the magic bullet for the last one. Those games are much, much worse than the game that DB is fostering here.

    I will admit that my purchasing decisions are rarely driven by gameplay considerations except in the broadest sense. I do want Gary Seven, because I like the character and he's great for Voyages and shuttles. But I didn't want Burnham as much and she was similar. Would I have taken her from a begold, sure, would I have pulled for a pack for her in particular, nope not at all interested. So yeah, I like my favourite characters to be useable, but I would never spend money on a character for just gameplay, so that likely alters my perception of the dilemma that DB is facing.

    So yeah, I am pro using the nerfbat as often as is needed.

    (That said, the way DB went about it was a bit shady and the compensation is not enough)
  • Capt. ChaosCapt. Chaos ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have never bought 2 "double your crew" offers for the same character before this. And yes, it was for this skirmish event. CS is offering no solution for my situation so far.
  • ~peregrine~~peregrine~ ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2018
    From the FTC safe computing act.
    § 52. Dissemination of false advertisements
    (Sec. 12)
    (a) Unlawfulness
    It shall be unlawful for any person, partnership, or corporation to disseminate, or cause to be
    disseminated, any false advertisement--
    (1) By United States mails, or in or having an effect upon commerce, by any means, for the purpose of
    inducing, or which is likely to induce, directly or indirectly the purchase of food, drugs, devices,
    services, or cosmetics; or
    (2) By any means, for the purpose of inducing, or which is likely to induce, directly or indirectly, the
    purchase in or having an effect upon commerce, of food, drugs, devices, services, or cosmetics.
    (b) Unfair or deceptive act or practice
    The dissemination or the causing to be disseminated of any false advertisement within the provisions of
    subsection (a) of this section shall be an unfair or deceptive act or practice in or affecting commerce
    within the meaning of section 45 of this title.

    Ah, but DB did not disseminate the pre-nerf ship ability, because they “do not have the bandwidth,” according to Shan some weeks ago. Yar’s ability was disseminated by a player who got the card (unsure if it was via Forums, Wiki, or Discord). A minor point, to be sure, and I do not mean to quibble or apologize for DB’s very bad behavior. 🖖🏻
    "In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
  • Capt. ChaosCapt. Chaos ✭✭✭✭✭
    From the FTC safe computing act.
    § 52. Dissemination of false advertisements
    (Sec. 12)
    (a) Unlawfulness
    It shall be unlawful for any person, partnership, or corporation to disseminate, or cause to be
    disseminated, any false advertisement--
    (1) By United States mails, or in or having an effect upon commerce, by any means, for the purpose of
    inducing, or which is likely to induce, directly or indirectly the purchase of food, drugs, devices,
    services, or cosmetics; or
    (2) By any means, for the purpose of inducing, or which is likely to induce, directly or indirectly, the
    purchase in or having an effect upon commerce, of food, drugs, devices, services, or cosmetics.
    (b) Unfair or deceptive act or practice
    The dissemination or the causing to be disseminated of any false advertisement within the provisions of
    subsection (a) of this section shall be an unfair or deceptive act or practice in or affecting commerce
    within the meaning of section 45 of this title.

    Ah, but DB did not disseminate the pre-nerf ship ability, because they “do not have the bandwidth,” according to Shan some weeks ago. Yar’s ability was disseminated by a player who got the card (unsure if it was via Forums, Wiki, or Discord). A minor point, to be sure, and I do not mean to quibble or apologize for DB’s very bad behavior. 🖖🏻

    Placing the goods on full display pretty much disseminates the info in question.
  • PallidynePallidyne ✭✭✭✭✭
    Pallidyne wrote: »
    Thurthorad wrote: »
    This is a good precedent. The worst thing that can happen in freemium games is that the company surrenders game balance because they daren't nerf cards people have paid for. Their response is also decent. If you spent money, they'll give you the dil equivalent. It's not as good as it could have been, but given the scale, it's probably a fine response.

    What's also good is that it shows the community that they do care about balance, and I find that heartening.

    Perhaps when cards are released in future that are seen as OP that people will expect a nerf. I'd like that. Community feedback on game balance is a great thing to have.

    How about just STOP and THINK THINGS THROUGH before releasing a character.
    Seriously. It feels like they did about as much playtesting as I did on the balance beam... and trust me I ain't going to the Olympics.

    I used to offer Star Trek viewings for those DB employees that risked to come near. Now it's time for Sesame Street. Cookie Monster has a lil series called "Smart Cookies" where a problem is presented and he has to be talked off his impulsive runs to stop, think and work things out. Is Cookie Monster running QC?

    Not Cookie Monster, Grimace.....

    spp0h4f06vo5.jpg

    No, Cookie Monster:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDMtWXbvofI

  • Average GuyAverage Guy ✭✭✭✭
    From the FTC safe computing act.
    § 52. Dissemination of false advertisements
    (Sec. 12)
    (a) Unlawfulness
    It shall be unlawful for any person, partnership, or corporation to disseminate, or cause to be
    disseminated, any false advertisement--
    (1) By United States mails, or in or having an effect upon commerce, by any means, for the purpose of
    inducing, or which is likely to induce, directly or indirectly the purchase of food, drugs, devices,
    services, or cosmetics; or
    (2) By any means, for the purpose of inducing, or which is likely to induce, directly or indirectly, the
    purchase in or having an effect upon commerce, of food, drugs, devices, services, or cosmetics.
    (b) Unfair or deceptive act or practice
    The dissemination or the causing to be disseminated of any false advertisement within the provisions of
    subsection (a) of this section shall be an unfair or deceptive act or practice in or affecting commerce
    within the meaning of section 45 of this title.

    Ah, but DB did not disseminate the pre-nerf ship ability, because they “do not have the bandwidth,” according to Shan some weeks ago. Yar’s ability was disseminated by a player who got the card (unsure if it was via Forums, Wiki, or Discord). A minor point, to be sure, and I do not mean to quibble or apologize for DB’s very bad behavior. 🖖🏻

    They put something up for sale. Big sign saying new pack this week, here are the stats. That is disseminating no? She was used with those stats. Others bought her because of those same stats. Then planning on changing the stats while she is still being sold and used without warning potential customers, is that not a little unethical from a business perspective?
  • And to have her abilities nerfed like they did?!?! I doubt many have characters to allow a ship to hang undamaged for 10 friggin seconds. I sure don't.
  • WaldoMagWaldoMag ✭✭✭✭✭
    Okay you that think Yar threw out the balance of the game.
    Here is crew that affected balance of a more important aspect of the game.
    Kahless
    Locutus
    Surak
    Guinan

    Need I go on. Gauntlet provides much better rewards then arena, skirmishes are not as frequent as Galaxy and Faction events. Everyone can still compete in Skirmish an garner rewards. It is still unproven that Yar would have saved time in Skirmish.

    The best compensation for Polywater is any crew a person wants instead. Because clearly DB felt Yar was too good to leave alone. They decided she was the best crew they ever released because of their need to lower the ship ability immediately after selling her to us.
  • Dirk GundersonDirk Gunderson ✭✭✭✭✭
    Would it be too much to ask for a global reward of one star on, say, Captain Killy to make up for the totally wretched lack of communication on this issue? This isn’t as widely spread of a problem as what led to Picardgate but DB really should make an effort to restore good will for the entire player base in addition to specific compensation for those directly affected.
  • I asked for Killy or Locutus as compensation/substitute for Yar. They are the closest in terms of Polywater Yar's advertised ship ability. They should give everyone the option to swap Yar for one of them. To me that would be fair compensation.
  • ~peregrine~~peregrine~ ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2018
    From the FTC safe computing act.
    § 52. Dissemination of false advertisements
    (Sec. 12)
    (a) Unlawfulness
    It shall be unlawful for any person, partnership, or corporation to disseminate, or cause to be
    disseminated, any false advertisement--
    (1) By United States mails, or in or having an effect upon commerce, by any means, for the purpose of
    inducing, or which is likely to induce, directly or indirectly the purchase of food, drugs, devices,
    services, or cosmetics; or
    (2) By any means, for the purpose of inducing, or which is likely to induce, directly or indirectly, the
    purchase in or having an effect upon commerce, of food, drugs, devices, services, or cosmetics.
    (b) Unfair or deceptive act or practice
    The dissemination or the causing to be disseminated of any false advertisement within the provisions of
    subsection (a) of this section shall be an unfair or deceptive act or practice in or affecting commerce
    within the meaning of section 45 of this title.

    Ah, but DB did not disseminate the pre-nerf ship ability, because they “do not have the bandwidth,” according to Shan some weeks ago. Yar’s ability was disseminated by a player who got the card (unsure if it was via Forums, Wiki, or Discord). A minor point, to be sure, and I do not mean to quibble or apologize for DB’s very bad behavior. 🖖🏻

    They put something up for sale. Big sign saying new pack this week, here are the stats. That is disseminating no? She was used with those stats. Others bought her because of those same stats. Then planning on changing the stats while she is still being sold and used without warning potential customers, is that not a little unethical from a business perspective?

    But DB did not show the ship ability stats. They showed the artwork and the stats for the 3 skills, true, and I agree that this nerf was highly unethical. If I am wrong about DB publishing Yar’s ship abilities prior to the nerf, then I apologize and would like to see for myself how those abilities were advertised by the company. 🖖🏻
    "In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
  • Drone_one wrote: »
    I asked for Killy or Locutus as compensation/substitute for Yar. They are the closest in terms of Polywater Yar's advertised ship ability. They should give everyone the option to swap Yar for one of them. To me that would be fair compensation.

    Is that really fair though? I didn't care about Yar but I would have gone all out in the event if I knew Locutus was a potential reward...
  • Capt. ChaosCapt. Chaos ✭✭✭✭✭
    And I already have Killy and Locutus, so...
  • Catpain wrote: »
    Drone_one wrote: »
    I asked for Killy or Locutus as compensation/substitute for Yar. They are the closest in terms of Polywater Yar's advertised ship ability. They should give everyone the option to swap Yar for one of them. To me that would be fair compensation.

    Is that really fair though? I didn't care about Yar but I would have gone all out in the event if I knew Locutus was a potential reward...

    True. And I didn't think of folks who have both immortalized. Perhaps citation is best then. Give one for every star on Yar and take away the useless Poly Yar's off our hands.
  • Cpt. CavemanCpt. Caveman ✭✭✭✭

    But DB did not show the ship ability stats. They showed the artwork and the stats for the 3 skills, true, and I agree that this nerf was highly unethical. If I am wrong about DB publishing Yar’s ship abilities prior to the nerf, then I apologize and would like to see for myself how those abilities were advertised by the company. 🖖🏻

    This whole thing could have been a typo.

    oh, it was supposed to say 12 seconds, not 2 seconds.

  • Average GuyAverage Guy ✭✭✭✭
    From the FTC safe computing act.
    § 52. Dissemination of false advertisements
    (Sec. 12)
    (a) Unlawfulness
    It shall be unlawful for any person, partnership, or corporation to disseminate, or cause to be
    disseminated, any false advertisement--
    (1) By United States mails, or in or having an effect upon commerce, by any means, for the purpose of
    inducing, or which is likely to induce, directly or indirectly the purchase of food, drugs, devices,
    services, or cosmetics; or
    (2) By any means, for the purpose of inducing, or which is likely to induce, directly or indirectly, the
    purchase in or having an effect upon commerce, of food, drugs, devices, services, or cosmetics.
    (b) Unfair or deceptive act or practice
    The dissemination or the causing to be disseminated of any false advertisement within the provisions of
    subsection (a) of this section shall be an unfair or deceptive act or practice in or affecting commerce
    within the meaning of section 45 of this title.

    Ah, but DB did not disseminate the pre-nerf ship ability, because they “do not have the bandwidth,” according to Shan some weeks ago. Yar’s ability was disseminated by a player who got the card (unsure if it was via Forums, Wiki, or Discord). A minor point, to be sure, and I do not mean to quibble or apologize for DB’s very bad behavior. 🖖🏻

    They put something up for sale. Big sign saying new pack this week, here are the stats. That is disseminating no? She was used with those stats. Others bought her because of those same stats. Then planning on changing the stats while she is still being sold and used without warning potential customers, is that not a little unethical from a business perspective?

    But DB did not show the ship ability stats. They showed the artwork and the stats for the 3 skills, true, and I agree that this nerf was highly unethical. If I am wrong about DB publishing Yar’s ship abilities prior to the nerf, then I apologize and would like to see for myself how those abilities were advertised by the company. 🖖🏻

    Once she is in the game, all you have to do is click on the info button in the character profile and her info is there. They were advertising her for sale on the new pack and new event (as originally released) and kept advertising her up until they nerfed her stats. I didn't go after a second star because someone else told me to in the forums or elsewhere, I went after it because I got one in an event pack and purchased another pack because of her, and spent lots of resources because of her to rank high enough to get one. Now the stats she originally had were changed immediately after they stopped selling her. Sounds fishy to me.
  • Drone_one wrote: »
    True. And I didn't think of folks who have both immortalized. Perhaps citation is best then. Give one for every star on Yar and take away the useless Poly Yar's off our hands.

    Unfortunately that's not any better. A citation is generally more valuable than a 5* card and a lot of people who didn't would have competed for the event if that were the reward. These messes are extremely hard to clean up in ways that please everyone. It's not easy to satisfy the people who feel they got cheated without making everyone else feel like they're getting special treatment.

  • Average GuyAverage Guy ✭✭✭✭
    Catpain wrote: »
    Drone_one wrote: »
    True. And I didn't think of folks who have both immortalized. Perhaps citation is best then. Give one for every star on Yar and take away the useless Poly Yar's off our hands.

    Unfortunately that's not any better. A citation is generally more valuable than a 5* card and a lot of people who didn't would have competed for the event if that were the reward. These messes are extremely hard to clean up in ways that please everyone. It's not easy to satisfy the people who feel they got cheated without making everyone else feel like they're getting special treatment.

    The correct fix would have been to limit the number of crew to a ship as one copy only per crew as someone else stated in the forum. This balances game play for all characters in the game equally without affecting recent purchases. If one is a little stronger then it won't dramatically affect game play and the game can evolve gradually with new characters to defend against the skill. If they are going to introduce new skill variables then they need to be tested properly instead of over reacting after they sold a told of packs.
  • WaldoMagWaldoMag ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2018
    Here is a post of the product that was for sale.
    This product sells itself and is the advertisement.

    lin1o67hi03r.png

    Here is the link.
    https://forum.disruptorbeam.com/stt/discussion/10623/key-information-about-the-event-an-even-field-08-09-mega-event-2/p6
  • ~peregrine~~peregrine~ ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2018
    WaldoMag wrote: »
    Here is a post of the product that was for sale.
    This product sells itself and is the advertisement.

    lin1o67hi03r.png

    Here is the link.
    https://forum.disruptorbeam.com/stt/discussion/10623/key-information-about-the-event-an-even-field-08-09-mega-event-2/p6

    But you can only see that after you acquire the card, not before. Example: I cannot see Reverend Phlox’s info-button stats because I do not that card in my inventory (yet). This is all that DB shows me about the card beforehand:

    hm5erxujf2ib.png

    At any rate, DB was wrong and maybe I am barking up the wrong tree. On to Rufio-gate! 🖖🏻
    "In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
  • Nerfing Year is not the solution. There are still ‘instant kill’ crew such as Killy. The problem is that there is no defence against crew with a quick damage ability.
    The solution is to have a defence.
    The Bounty is becoming less popular in the arena. Change it’s cloak to start immediately. This make the ship not targetable for the first 6 seconds. Instant Kill crew are not effective.
    Restore Yar to her former glory, change the bounty to have a instant kill defence and everyone goes away happy.
    The Guardians of Tomorrow
    Protecting the Galaxy's Future from itself
  • GaldranGaldran ✭✭✭
    I got her, was looking forward to using her, thought she was powerful, thought it was your usual inflation problem these games have.

    But luckily I didn't spend a penny to get her.

    Now, if someone spent money to get her, and then had her nerfed within 24hrs....I would be mad as well. But if you spent money and don't like the changes, speak with your wallet...

  • Sir JoeSir Joe ✭✭
    edited August 2018
    There was a defence and part of my problem is I was preparing for just that. I got Admiral Janeway in pull and then bought a double up and was levelling her just for her 1s evasion. Why? Cause it’s called playing the game fair and square. Then they nerf Yar after that. My compensation is not just for Yar, it’s for the fact I played the bloody game as it was stated only for DB to then nerf her unfairly.

    I didn’t get Tilly and was not happy about her ability. So what did I do? **tsk tsk** it up and try to find other strategies to beat her. Not wine and moan about her amazing kill stats. It’s called playing the bloody game.

    Restoring Yar to what she was is the right and only solution. There are characters like Janeway and Soval to help combat her. There was no reason whatsoever for nerfing her in the first place.

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