Regarding Gangster Spock and Kirk, they are both "Costumed, Federation, Starfleet" (Starfleet officers pretending to be Gangsters, that seems fine) and "Civilian" (actual Gangsters?). I don't think thet should be both.
I do not understand why a subset of players seem determined to get traits removed from crew. Spock and Kirk were acting as civilians while on their Starfleet job.
They steal guns and suits but they steal them from bad guys. So they did steal and commit criminal acts but did them for a noble reason. An argument could be made that they are criminal and not criminal at the same time. There are hundreds of examples like this.
If you're stealing, you're a criminal since you've committed a crime. Having a honorable motives doesn't change the criminality. Same with Robin Hood. There's no doubt they are criminals.
Regarding Gangster Spock and Kirk, they are both "Costumed, Federation, Starfleet" (Starfleet officers pretending to be Gangsters, that seems fine) and "Civilian" (actual Gangsters?). I don't think thet should be both.
I do not understand why a subset of players seem determined to get traits removed from crew. Spock and Kirk were acting as civilians while on their Starfleet job.
So you can target crew in crew retrieval more accurately?
Acting as civilian is not being civilian, I think. It's either Costumed/Undercover Op, or Civilian IMO
They steal guns and suits but they steal them from bad guys. So they did steal and commit criminal acts but did them for a noble reason. An argument could be made that they are criminal and not criminal at the same time. There are hundreds of examples like this.
If you're stealing, you're a criminal since you've committed a crime. Having a honorable motives doesn't change the criminality. Same with Robin Hood. There's no doubt they are criminals.
Now we are getting into Les Miserables morality issues.
Regarding Gangster Spock and Kirk, they are both "Costumed, Federation, Starfleet" (Starfleet officers pretending to be Gangsters, that seems fine) and "Civilian" (actual Gangsters?). I don't think thet should be both.
I do not understand why a subset of players seem determined to get traits removed from crew. Spock and Kirk were acting as civilians while on their Starfleet job.
So you can target crew in crew retrieval more accurately?
Acting as civilian is not being civilian, I think. It's either Costumed/Undercover Op, or Civilian IMO
That is a better reason than most but with all these collections coming out I hate to have traits taken away from any crew. Gangster Spock and Kirk are very easy to retrieve as they are but maybe you were speaking to lowering the civilian polestar pool to make those easier to retrieve.
Does anyone else think Layna should be costumed? She's an actress dressed as she would be to perform, complete with her mask in hand. I would think an actress in her "work clothes" would count, even as simple as they are.
W.W. CarlislePlayed since January 20, 2019Captain Level- 99 (May 9, 2022)VIP 14Crew Quarters: 485/485Most recent/Lowest- Anbo-jyutsu Kyle Riker (1/5* Lvl 30) 5/29/23Immortalized x-866 5* x184, 4* x 490, 3* x91, 2* x62, and 1* x27Most recent Immortal - Tearful Janeway 4* 5/25/23Current non-event project- Improving my Science base skill. Retrieval Project- Mestral 1/5*
Does anyone else think Layna should be costumed? She's an actress dressed as she would be to perform, complete with her mask in hand. I would think an actress in her "work clothes" would count, even as simple as they are.
Does anyone else think that all of these discussions belong elsewhere? Just a thought.
"In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
Does anyone else think Layna should be costumed? She's an actress dressed as she would be to perform, complete with her mask in hand. I would think an actress in her "work clothes" would count, even as simple as they are.
Does anyone else think that all of these discussions belong elsewhere? Just a thought.
Pretty sure that's exactly what this thread is for. The fact that it's still pinned implies the team is still looking at it.
Does anyone else think Layna should be costumed? She's an actress dressed as she would be to perform, complete with her mask in hand. I would think an actress in her "work clothes" would count, even as simple as they are.
Does anyone else think that all of these discussions belong elsewhere? Just a thought.
Pretty sure that's exactly what this thread is for. The fact that it's still pinned implies the team is still looking at it.
Exactly. They want feedback on trait changes. Several crew got the Costumed trait and she did not. I was explaining my reasoning and asking other players and dev thoughts on the matter. I was curious whether I was over thinking or if she'd been overlooked.
W.W. CarlislePlayed since January 20, 2019Captain Level- 99 (May 9, 2022)VIP 14Crew Quarters: 485/485Most recent/Lowest- Anbo-jyutsu Kyle Riker (1/5* Lvl 30) 5/29/23Immortalized x-866 5* x184, 4* x 490, 3* x91, 2* x62, and 1* x27Most recent Immortal - Tearful Janeway 4* 5/25/23Current non-event project- Improving my Science base skill. Retrieval Project- Mestral 1/5*
Does anyone else think Layna should be costumed? She's an actress dressed as she would be to perform, complete with her mask in hand. I would think an actress in her "work clothes" would count, even as simple as they are.
It would make sense for her to be costumed, even though so far they seem to be using the costumed trait on people who are dressed up for fun, rather than work.
Anyway, if she's costumed then Kelis should be too, since he's also in his stage clothes (which look different from his civilian clothes, so it definitely makes sense to consider them a costume)
I don't see Gangster Spock as dressed up for fun. That was work. Galen, the North Star Enterprise crew, etc. was all in the line of duty, so those were working clothes for that assignment.
W.W. CarlislePlayed since January 20, 2019Captain Level- 99 (May 9, 2022)VIP 14Crew Quarters: 485/485Most recent/Lowest- Anbo-jyutsu Kyle Riker (1/5* Lvl 30) 5/29/23Immortalized x-866 5* x184, 4* x 490, 3* x91, 2* x62, and 1* x27Most recent Immortal - Tearful Janeway 4* 5/25/23Current non-event project- Improving my Science base skill. Retrieval Project- Mestral 1/5*
I don't see Gangster Spock as dressed up for fun. That was work. Galen, the North Star Enterprise crew, etc. was all in the line of duty, so those were working clothes for that assignment.
That makes sense. I think someone already mentioned a certain inconsistency in the choice of Undercover Operative vs Costumed. There are cards in the game who have the trait because they were pretending to be someone else in an undercover mission. That is still a rare or one-time occurence vs someone's everyday activity.
And when it comes to the characters who were on the holodeck, I would still qualify it as a costume that they would ususally wear for leisure time, but that they also had on on one occasion when things turned serious.
That being said, I don't have anything against Layna and Kelis being costumed. They obviously are. I'm just trying to make assumptions on WRG's reasoning for the Costumed trait
EDIT: Now that I think about it, most Costumed cards are probably Human or Starfleet people dressing up as someone from another time or culture/species. Or Q dressing up as a human. So they might have missed the trait where it was less obvious. But since the Clown also has it, I agree that Kelis and Layna should too.
The Clown is a weird case. Anyone else would be in costume, but he IS a Clown. He is not someone/whatever dressed in a clown costume, he is nothing but a clown, that is his whole persona.
He's A mental construct in a physical form. He appears as a clown, but really he could appear as anything- monster, shadow, mist, clown. Clown is the form he wears, so it is a costume of sorts.
W.W. CarlislePlayed since January 20, 2019Captain Level- 99 (May 9, 2022)VIP 14Crew Quarters: 485/485Most recent/Lowest- Anbo-jyutsu Kyle Riker (1/5* Lvl 30) 5/29/23Immortalized x-866 5* x184, 4* x 490, 3* x91, 2* x62, and 1* x27Most recent Immortal - Tearful Janeway 4* 5/25/23Current non-event project- Improving my Science base skill. Retrieval Project- Mestral 1/5*
Kathryn Janeway (2*), Rifle Janeway (3*), Camp Nurse Janeway (4*), Captain Janeway (4*), Admiral Janeway (5*), Assimilated Janeway (5*), and Determined Janeway (5*) should all be given the INSPIRING trait.
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I do not understand why a subset of players seem determined to get traits removed from crew. Spock and Kirk were acting as civilians while on their Starfleet job.
If you're stealing, you're a criminal since you've committed a crime. Having a honorable motives doesn't change the criminality. Same with Robin Hood. There's no doubt they are criminals.
Acting as civilian is not being civilian, I think. It's either Costumed/Undercover Op, or Civilian IMO
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Now we are getting into Les Miserables morality issues.
That is a better reason than most but with all these collections coming out I hate to have traits taken away from any crew. Gangster Spock and Kirk are very easy to retrieve as they are but maybe you were speaking to lowering the civilian polestar pool to make those easier to retrieve.
Does anyone else think that all of these discussions belong elsewhere? Just a thought.
Pretty sure that's exactly what this thread is for. The fact that it's still pinned implies the team is still looking at it.
Exactly. They want feedback on trait changes. Several crew got the Costumed trait and she did not. I was explaining my reasoning and asking other players and dev thoughts on the matter. I was curious whether I was over thinking or if she'd been overlooked.
It would make sense for her to be costumed, even though so far they seem to be using the costumed trait on people who are dressed up for fun, rather than work.
Anyway, if she's costumed then Kelis should be too, since he's also in his stage clothes (which look different from his civilian clothes, so it definitely makes sense to consider them a costume)
That makes sense. I think someone already mentioned a certain inconsistency in the choice of Undercover Operative vs Costumed. There are cards in the game who have the trait because they were pretending to be someone else in an undercover mission. That is still a rare or one-time occurence vs someone's everyday activity.
And when it comes to the characters who were on the holodeck, I would still qualify it as a costume that they would ususally wear for leisure time, but that they also had on on one occasion when things turned serious.
That being said, I don't have anything against Layna and Kelis being costumed. They obviously are. I'm just trying to make assumptions on WRG's reasoning for the Costumed trait
EDIT: Now that I think about it, most Costumed cards are probably Human or Starfleet people dressing up as someone from another time or culture/species. Or Q dressing up as a human. So they might have missed the trait where it was less obvious. But since the Clown also has it, I agree that Kelis and Layna should too.
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