What are we hoping to address very quickly:
- making it so that more players participating in a Boss Battle get some rewards
Many thanks to the devs for acting so quickly, and to you for passing the info on to us. Acting promptly to limit the traits to 18 instead of 24 until the “hidden row” issue can be addressed is huge.
On the issue of rewards, it seems fairly easy to add a new, lower individual rewards tier that requires minimal damage (1K say) and gives minimal individual rewards, but qualifies a captain to earn the fleet rewards. This allows stronger fleet members to carry weaker fleet members, which is a good thing for a fleet-based mode.
However, large, active fleets with many strong members will still find themselves facing the “competing with fleetmates” problem that has been discussed extensively already on this thread. To recap, the boss doesn’t have enough hull points to go around in order for all (or even most) fleet members to achieve the maximum reward tier. Indeed, at every level up through Hard, there is a certain number x (not necessarily the same for each difficulty level) such that if x fleet members achieve the maximum reward tier, it becomes impossible for all 50–x other fleet members to achieve even the (current) minimum reward tier. (This problem also applies to Brutal unless the fleet avoids completing any combo chains.) An additional, lower reward tier that virtually all captains can achieve will help with this, but you still have the problem that even if everyone in the fleet is capable of dealing enough damage to boss to receive maximum individual rewards for a particular level, the boss doesn’t have enough hp for them to do that. So the inner-fleet competition remains. The vibe is more Terran Empire than Starfleet.
Additionally, for large, active fleets that want all of their captains to prosper (and what fleet wouldn’t?), the current rewards system actually creates a disincentive to solve the combo chains, because the hp damage dealt by solving a combo chain makes the problem described above worse.
I play another mobile game called Marvel Future Fight, which recently introduced a new cooperative boss battle mode. There are some important differences between MFF’s Multiverse Invasion and STT’s Fleet Boss Battles, such as the time involved and how teams are formed, but the underlying structure of both the battle and the rewards have enough parallels that I’d like to offer the following suggestion for Fleet Boss Battles:
As captains deal damage to the boss ship, count up from zero instead of down from a fixed number.
For the boss destruction rewards, change the % tiers to absolute value tiers, based on the current (or later adjusted) hull strengths. For example, on Hard level, instead of the tiers being 25%/75%/100%, they become 55M/165M/220M.
Let x = the threshold for achieving the maximum individual reward and let y = a number somewhat larger than the thickness of the next-to-last reward tier, maybe double. For example, in Hard level, the penultimate tier is 12M–17M, so make y = 6M to 10M. Calculate a “retreat” value of 1.4×(50×(x+y)). Have the battle end when the timer runs out OR this number is reached. (In case it’s not clear, the 1.4 is to accommodate combo chains; the 50 is to accommodate a maximally populated and maximally active fleet.)
This solution should be very easy to implement, and it totally solves the inner-fleet competition problem without making the boss destruction rewards easier to get for the fleet as a whole. Under the system described, it is now possible for all captains in a fleet to shoot for the maximum individual rewards and engaged in the combo-solving without having to futz about with algebra to determine whether they’re inadvertently excluding fleetmates from getting rewards (or limiting those fleetmates to lower reward tiers).
This does change the narrative aspect of the mode a little bit. The boss is never really destroyed, just driven away for a while. But then, for a mode where you’re repeating the same battles over and over and over ad astra, that kind of makes sense.
Everyone who participates should get rewards. Everyone who plays gauntlet gets rewards. Everyone who plays arena gets rewards. Everyone who plays events gets rewards. How WRG could spend months on this feature supposedly for fleets but leave out rewards for most of the fleet is ridiculous. Change the reward structure or lose players.
100% agreed. A lot of fleets pride themselves on helping out lower level players. Making sure everyone who participates has access to the all-fleet rewards, even if their personal rewards are minimal, would fit much better with that sort of ethos. As it stands at the moment, people have to either deliberately stop playing to avoid being accidentally "greedy" and stopping other people earning rewards, or play at the lower levels which are a lot less fun because of all the constant back and forth in cryo to help out the people who can't reach the damage threshold on the higher ones.
I do not know if anyone has made this suggestion. But if a fleet destroys the boss, maybe the whole fleet should be rewarded with the top tier rewards.
Only use the damage rewards tier when they fail to destroy the boss. Not sure how that works with those that score a combo. Maybe the solution there is anyone making a combo gets the top tier reward.
Everyone who participates should get rewards. Everyone who plays gauntlet gets rewards. Everyone who plays arena gets rewards. Everyone who plays events gets rewards. How WRG could spend months on this feature supposedly for fleets but leave out rewards for most of the fleet is ridiculous. Change the reward structure or lose players.
100% agreed. A lot of fleets pride themselves on helping out lower level players. Making sure everyone who participates has access to the all-fleet rewards, even if their personal rewards are minimal, would fit much better with that sort of ethos. As it stands at the moment, people have to either deliberately stop playing to avoid being accidentally "greedy" and stopping other people earning rewards, or play at the lower levels which are a lot less fun because of all the constant back and forth in cryo to help out the people who can't reach the damage threshold on the higher ones.
I do not know if anyone has made this suggestion. But if a fleet destroys the boss, maybe the whole fleet should be rewarded with the top tier rewards.
Only use the damage rewards tier when they fail to destroy the boss. Not sure how that works with those that score a combo. Maybe the solution there is anyone making a combo gets the top tier reward.
Yes. I think fleet boss battles should benefit the fleet.
So, if that means that the rewards are evenly distributed across the fleet for successfully beating the boss, that would be the best.
Its not as though replicator rations are awarded to the fleet members based on how many components were donated.
Its not as though new fleet members DONT get starbase buffs and bonuses because they didnt contribute to acquiring them.
Fleet boss battles should be a badge of honor for the whole fleet, with the best bonuses and rewards (bridge builds and buffs) available for EVERYONE in the fleet, and then have rewards that encourage the whales or moderate spenders to contribute more than everyone else, but make tjose rewards tiered and obtainable by anyone.
But i really want to echo, think about how horrible it would be if the only way you got starbase buffs was if you were there from day one to lvl 134!
My main complaint right now is that I have to restart the game EVERY TIME I pick it up to refresh the FBB. They don't seem to update in the background, and I am sure I have lost rewards because of that.
iOS 15.5 on 3 devices: iPad, iPad Air and iPhone 12 Pro. All have the same problem. If you leave the app running, and come back to it going into FBB to check status, and the boss battle is finished, it doesn't tell you it's finished and moved on, nor does it give you rewards, and it throws you right into the current battle.
This would seem to indicate a server side issue more than client side.
It was fun day 1. Now I question if it's worth my time to contribute to the battle if I'm not going to hit the ridiculous minimum thresholds. Doesn't really inspire me to help the fleet. It's a really nice feeling to be basically told "you didn't work hard enough or buy enough extra tickets to qualify for the rewards."
Individual rewards really become useless at a certain LV. We need Kremocite added there as well. Maybe add extra tiers or whatever, but it feels wrong that ppl that deliver the highest damage and often have to use dilithium, end up with mostly „useless“ Captain Bridge items.
I agree on adding Kemocite to personal rewards.
In general, I think this feature is creating too much of a divide between players of the same fleet. The ones who contribute the most are left with useless rewards, the ones who contribute to unlock nodes get nothing or a lot less than they could if they just went for damage, and the ones who aren't able to play a lot or do a lot of damage become a burden when it comes to unlocking higher levels.
Plus it's almost impossible to implement a fleet strategy using the in-game chat, which leads to all battles being active at once and to more frustation for the fleets that don't have a mandatory external chat where everyone is active all the time. It's a game, not a job. And even if it were a job, this would be a nightmare scenario for communication.
I really hope the rewards are changed so everyone can unlock the whole captain bridge (with time). We're about 20-25 people attacking and have yet to beat normal... So apparently captain bridge level 6 is meant to be a hard cap for us...?
When I envisioned a feature that would let me use more crew, it was those hordes of unused legendaries I mainly had in mind. It's a bit annoying that it's apparently 2* and 3*, all of which are in the freezer, practically. Also, the new ship seems nice for fbb... too bad we won't be able to use that either.
Speaking of which, here is a common test scenario that I encourage the devs to try out:
Freeze all your 1-2* crew, and all but 2 3* crew (for the arena)
Ensure you have only 5 free crew slots
Try to play fbb level easy and normal
You will quickly see just how annoying it is to try to make a combo...
Leave the 24 hours countdown away. Why the hurry? The better the fleet works, the faster they get the rewards. More laid back approach - rewards coming slower.
For the node-completions give instant "bonus rewards" for those who contributed to complete it and no damage to the boss. So those who invested merits will get rewarded and on the other hand, more fleet members can achieve the minimum tiers.
Apologies if someone has allready asked this or it’s been answered. But, can you unlock one node and then go and unlock another later? This message implies that you can’t.
Apologies if someone has allready asked this or it’s been answered. But, can you unlock one node and then go and unlock another later? This message implies that you can’t.
You cannot unlock another node on the same combo chain, but you can unlock a node (or nodes) on subsequent chains.
"In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
I think I found one of those "no matches" scenarios. I calculated that the only crew (Brutal, Common to SR) matching Physician + 2 of the possible traits is Mirror Phlox (Physician+Interrogator+Mirror Universe), but he didn't unlock it.
If I'm indeed right, I think this is a huge problem, since Valor is so scarce and we are wasting in a wild goose chase. If the possible traits can be anything outside of shown possible traits, the hints are meaningless.
PS: I realize now that the bug is probably that Starfleet is twice in the possible traits, and is in both cases greyed out, but it was actually consumed twice. I wasted valor anyway in what I thought was a sure shot
I think I found one of those "no matches" scenarios. I calculated that the only crew (Brutal, Common to SR) matching Physician + 2 of the possible traits is Mirror Phlox (Physician+Interrogator+Mirror Universe), but he didn't unlock it.
If I'm indeed right, I think this is a huge problem, since Valor is so scarce and we are wasting in a wild goose chase. If the possible traits can be anything outside of shown possible traits, the hints are meaningless.
PS: I realize now that the bug is probably that Starfleet is twice in the possible traits, and is in both cases greyed out, but it was actually consumed twice. I wasted valor anyway in what I thought was a sure shot
You're right about Starfleet. When a trait appears in the list twice they will both be greyed out when you match one of them. It actually seems like the only time a trait appears twice is if you need to use both of them, so in this case it means that the missing solution has to be Physician+Starfleet+something.
It took us a few battles before we worked this one out too. It's incredibly annoying when both copies of the trait are greyed out, as it's actually indicating the exact opposite of reality (i.e. it's telling you not to use that trait when in reality you absolutely have to).
So my fleet has decided to stay on the Hard level for a while to build up all our collective bridge boosts, etc.
In doing so, we are completing it more quickly each time, and if you compete and have enough points, then an entire battle goes by, and they start a 3rd, you lose any rewards you might have had. Not good.
I will admit that I kinda liked the personal rewards at first but now I agree with a lot of other commentors that it creates competition in the fleet instead of cooperation. I would recommend only having the fleet rewards and move the personal rewards to be with the fleet rewards, eliminate the trainers/replicator rations and replace them with a lot more merits. The fleet reward structure should be something like: 1/5% to 25%, 25% to 50%, 50% to 75%, and 75% to 99% and a large bonus for betting the boss. Give the people that unlock a combo link a bonus if the combo chain is completed as a replacement for the elimination of the personal reward track.
We beat the boss while I was asleep and I got zero rewards. I was in the top 5 in damage with just a little bit left. This stinks. We beat one yesterday too and I was on then and it said we were getting rewards but it didn’t move my captains bridge at all. Is there a place to claim rewards somewhere on a previous boss that I am missing?
So my fleet has decided to stay on the Hard level for a while to build up all our collective bridge boosts, etc.
In doing so, we are completing it more quickly each time, and if you compete and have enough points, then an entire battle goes by, and they start a 3rd, you lose any rewards you might have had. Not good.
Same here
Founding ADM - PoF family of fleets (POF, POF2 & POF3) - Dear TP: Non sequitur. Your facts are uncoordinated.
I thought it didn't matter how many people caused over x amount of damage, everyone in that bracket got y. The ranks don't really mean anything. The rewards aren't rank based. They are bracket based. The board really should have the brackets marked. I misread the numbers and got nothing once already.
W.W. CarlislePlayed since January 20, 2019Captain Level- 99 (May 9, 2022)VIP 14Crew Quarters: 485/485Most recent/Lowest- Anbo-jyutsu Kyle Riker (1/5* Lvl 30) 5/29/23Immortalized x-866 5* x184, 4* x 490, 3* x91, 2* x62, and 1* x27Most recent Immortal - Tearful Janeway 4* 5/25/23Current non-event project- Improving my Science base skill. Retrieval Project- Mestral 1/5*
IMHO, it's going too far design-wise to require three different resources for bridge upgrades. That makes it really hard, bordering on impossible, for members of average fleets to ever get their bridges completed or even up to a decent level, while they'll "swim" in magnesite, and so takes away their incentive to play boss battles at all. I believe it would have been a better design to use a single resource for those upgrades, then at least you could grind it little by little.
"Don't try to be a great man... just be a man. Let history make its own judgments." -- Dr. Zefram Cochrane, around 2073
IMHO, it's going too far design-wise to require three different resources for bridge upgrades. That makes it really hard, bordering on impossible, for members of average fleets to ever get their bridges completed or even up to a decent level, while they'll "swim" in magnesite, and so takes away their incentive to play boss battles at all. I believe it would have been a better design to use a single resource for those upgrades, then at least you could grind it little by little.
It's the same thing they did with starbases. Create multiple resources to appear like you're gaining, but then limit progress by making one of the resources rarer so you can only advance as fast as you can gain that resource.
This whole combo chain thing is a fiasco. Just eliminate it completely. It forces you to use a crew that gives poor results when your typical arena crew usually gives you far better damage results. We want to kill bosses, not use up all our resources thawing a dozen crew every day. Just getting your entire fleet to cooperate and attack the same level boss is challenging enough.
Fleet Admiral - Dazed & Confused 🤸🤸🙃 We are still waiting for Enterprises B & C, the Delta Flyer, and a Runabout! We should also have a TNG season 1 red shirt LT JG Worf, and a "Far Beyond The Stars" DS9 episode crew collection!
sorry if repeating, but there needs to be a way to search by more than one trait. Or at least show the traits on the screen when you look at frozen crew.
sorry if repeating, but there needs to be a way to search by more than one trait. Or at least show the traits on the screen when you look at frozen crew.
Ironically, you're repeating something that was already said by one of the devs. (Or at least someone who was playtesting with devs before the beta started.)
This whole combo chain thing is a fiasco. Just eliminate it completely. It forces you to use a crew that gives poor results when your typical arena crew usually gives you far better damage results. We want to kill bosses, not use up all our resources thawing a dozen crew every day. Just getting your entire fleet to cooperate and attack the same level boss is challenging enough.
Just stop worrying about the traits. On the lower levels a good fleet can easily beat the boss without the trait bonus. And as a bonus, fleet members get the individual credit for all that damage that would have gone to the trait damage.
sorry if repeating, but there needs to be a way to search by more than one trait. Or at least show the traits on the screen when you look at frozen crew.
Ironically, you're repeating something that was already said by one of the devs. (Or at least someone who was playtesting with devs before the beta started.)
To be fair, they've forced us to use external, non-sanctioned tools for years just to have a reliable fleet/squad chat. Trait searching seems like small potatoes compared to that.
QoL-wise, I have already given up working on combos if I am on my phone. I have to be in front of a PC if I am going to work combos. If I'm on my phone, I'm just going to spam damage.
That assumes I have merits to help with combo nodes anyway. I pissed away 25k merits already. Shocking how fast it goes....
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Captain Zombie's Combo chain calculator
Many thanks to the devs for acting so quickly, and to you for passing the info on to us. Acting promptly to limit the traits to 18 instead of 24 until the “hidden row” issue can be addressed is huge.
On the issue of rewards, it seems fairly easy to add a new, lower individual rewards tier that requires minimal damage (1K say) and gives minimal individual rewards, but qualifies a captain to earn the fleet rewards. This allows stronger fleet members to carry weaker fleet members, which is a good thing for a fleet-based mode.
However, large, active fleets with many strong members will still find themselves facing the “competing with fleetmates” problem that has been discussed extensively already on this thread. To recap, the boss doesn’t have enough hull points to go around in order for all (or even most) fleet members to achieve the maximum reward tier. Indeed, at every level up through Hard, there is a certain number x (not necessarily the same for each difficulty level) such that if x fleet members achieve the maximum reward tier, it becomes impossible for all 50–x other fleet members to achieve even the (current) minimum reward tier. (This problem also applies to Brutal unless the fleet avoids completing any combo chains.) An additional, lower reward tier that virtually all captains can achieve will help with this, but you still have the problem that even if everyone in the fleet is capable of dealing enough damage to boss to receive maximum individual rewards for a particular level, the boss doesn’t have enough hp for them to do that. So the inner-fleet competition remains. The vibe is more Terran Empire than Starfleet.
Additionally, for large, active fleets that want all of their captains to prosper (and what fleet wouldn’t?), the current rewards system actually creates a disincentive to solve the combo chains, because the hp damage dealt by solving a combo chain makes the problem described above worse.
I play another mobile game called Marvel Future Fight, which recently introduced a new cooperative boss battle mode. There are some important differences between MFF’s Multiverse Invasion and STT’s Fleet Boss Battles, such as the time involved and how teams are formed, but the underlying structure of both the battle and the rewards have enough parallels that I’d like to offer the following suggestion for Fleet Boss Battles:
This solution should be very easy to implement, and it totally solves the inner-fleet competition problem without making the boss destruction rewards easier to get for the fleet as a whole. Under the system described, it is now possible for all captains in a fleet to shoot for the maximum individual rewards and engaged in the combo-solving without having to futz about with algebra to determine whether they’re inadvertently excluding fleetmates from getting rewards (or limiting those fleetmates to lower reward tiers).
This does change the narrative aspect of the mode a little bit. The boss is never really destroyed, just driven away for a while. But then, for a mode where you’re repeating the same battles over and over and over ad astra, that kind of makes sense.
I do not know if anyone has made this suggestion. But if a fleet destroys the boss, maybe the whole fleet should be rewarded with the top tier rewards.
Only use the damage rewards tier when they fail to destroy the boss. Not sure how that works with those that score a combo. Maybe the solution there is anyone making a combo gets the top tier reward.
Yes. I think fleet boss battles should benefit the fleet.
So, if that means that the rewards are evenly distributed across the fleet for successfully beating the boss, that would be the best.
Its not as though replicator rations are awarded to the fleet members based on how many components were donated.
Its not as though new fleet members DONT get starbase buffs and bonuses because they didnt contribute to acquiring them.
Fleet boss battles should be a badge of honor for the whole fleet, with the best bonuses and rewards (bridge builds and buffs) available for EVERYONE in the fleet, and then have rewards that encourage the whales or moderate spenders to contribute more than everyone else, but make tjose rewards tiered and obtainable by anyone.
But i really want to echo, think about how horrible it would be if the only way you got starbase buffs was if you were there from day one to lvl 134!
iOS 15.5 on 3 devices: iPad, iPad Air and iPhone 12 Pro. All have the same problem. If you leave the app running, and come back to it going into FBB to check status, and the boss battle is finished, it doesn't tell you it's finished and moved on, nor does it give you rewards, and it throws you right into the current battle.
This would seem to indicate a server side issue more than client side.
1: Restrict who can start a boss battle (i.e. officers and admiral)
2: fleet "recommended" battles
3: search cryostasis and easy frozen retrieval (this is an absolute QoL nightmare)
4: reduce thawing cost - the return isn't worth it
5: traits - already being addressed but still worth mentioning
6: some way of easily communicating with fleet members which crew have been tried - chat is not helpful.
7: a way of looking at ship abilities easier when searching
I agree on adding Kemocite to personal rewards.
In general, I think this feature is creating too much of a divide between players of the same fleet. The ones who contribute the most are left with useless rewards, the ones who contribute to unlock nodes get nothing or a lot less than they could if they just went for damage, and the ones who aren't able to play a lot or do a lot of damage become a burden when it comes to unlocking higher levels.
Plus it's almost impossible to implement a fleet strategy using the in-game chat, which leads to all battles being active at once and to more frustation for the fleets that don't have a mandatory external chat where everyone is active all the time. It's a game, not a job. And even if it were a job, this would be a nightmare scenario for communication.
When I envisioned a feature that would let me use more crew, it was those hordes of unused legendaries I mainly had in mind. It's a bit annoying that it's apparently 2* and 3*, all of which are in the freezer, practically. Also, the new ship seems nice for fbb... too bad we won't be able to use that either.
Speaking of which, here is a common test scenario that I encourage the devs to try out:
Freeze all your 1-2* crew, and all but 2 3* crew (for the arena)
Ensure you have only 5 free crew slots
Try to play fbb level easy and normal
You will quickly see just how annoying it is to try to make a combo...
Leave the 24 hours countdown away. Why the hurry? The better the fleet works, the faster they get the rewards. More laid back approach - rewards coming slower.
For the node-completions give instant "bonus rewards" for those who contributed to complete it and no damage to the boss. So those who invested merits will get rewarded and on the other hand, more fleet members can achieve the minimum tiers.
And YES, dear Nynn, you are very right!
Why is Ben not wearing a shirt?
I think I found one of those "no matches" scenarios. I calculated that the only crew (Brutal, Common to SR) matching Physician + 2 of the possible traits is Mirror Phlox (Physician+Interrogator+Mirror Universe), but he didn't unlock it.
If I'm indeed right, I think this is a huge problem, since Valor is so scarce and we are wasting in a wild goose chase. If the possible traits can be anything outside of shown possible traits, the hints are meaningless.
PS: I realize now that the bug is probably that Starfleet is twice in the possible traits, and is in both cases greyed out, but it was actually consumed twice. I wasted valor anyway in what I thought was a sure shot
Public profile
Captain Zombie's Combo chain calculator
You're right about Starfleet. When a trait appears in the list twice they will both be greyed out when you match one of them. It actually seems like the only time a trait appears twice is if you need to use both of them, so in this case it means that the missing solution has to be Physician+Starfleet+something.
It took us a few battles before we worked this one out too. It's incredibly annoying when both copies of the trait are greyed out, as it's actually indicating the exact opposite of reality (i.e. it's telling you not to use that trait when in reality you absolutely have to).
In doing so, we are completing it more quickly each time, and if you compete and have enough points, then an entire battle goes by, and they start a 3rd, you lose any rewards you might have had. Not good.
Same here
-- Dr. Zefram Cochrane, around 2073
It's the same thing they did with starbases. Create multiple resources to appear like you're gaining, but then limit progress by making one of the resources rarer so you can only advance as fast as you can gain that resource.
Ironically, you're repeating something that was already said by one of the devs. (Or at least someone who was playtesting with devs before the beta started.)
Just stop worrying about the traits. On the lower levels a good fleet can easily beat the boss without the trait bonus. And as a bonus, fleet members get the individual credit for all that damage that would have gone to the trait damage.
To be fair, they've forced us to use external, non-sanctioned tools for years just to have a reliable fleet/squad chat. Trait searching seems like small potatoes compared to that.
QoL-wise, I have already given up working on combos if I am on my phone. I have to be in front of a PC if I am going to work combos. If I'm on my phone, I'm just going to spam damage.
That assumes I have merits to help with combo nodes anyway. I pissed away 25k merits already. Shocking how fast it goes....
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