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Mirror Mariner as gauntlet exclusive is setting some terrible precidents

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  • Automaton_2000Automaton_2000 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A lot of folks here asking for guarantees. TP is adding more RNG to try and keep engagement metrics afloat.
  • Captain IdolCaptain Idol ✭✭✭✭✭
    Gotta catch em all!

    Yeh you gotta buy Star Trek: Timelines FireRed to get the voyage exclusives
  • I’m feeling like the point of putting a top voyager as a gauntlet reward is an attempt to get people to play gauntlet. I absolutely despised gauntlet and wouldn’t even do it for OE’s however if that was the only way to get a crew that is a top voyager, I would play it until I got one copy and cite it up
  • AviTrekAviTrek ✭✭✭✭✭
    I’m feeling like the point of putting a top voyager as a gauntlet reward is an attempt to get people to play gauntlet. I absolutely despised gauntlet and wouldn’t even do it for OE’s however if that was the only way to get a crew that is a top voyager, I would play it until I got one copy and cite it up

    That's exactly what Nancy said:
    Hey everyone, just wanted to give you a quick update on this. We didn't mix anything up - the information is correct. We intentionally made the voyage crew strong in Gauntlet and vice versa to promote more feature to feature flow.
    As for communication, we always share the information as soon as we receive it. So before directing any negativity towards the team or employees, let's try to be respectful and considerate. Thanks.

    If you want a good voyager, you need to play gauntlet to get her. If you want a good gauntlet crew, you need to run voyages to get him. That way players are encourage to play other parts of the game.
  • Not just you.
    Frank? wrote: »
    @WRG Ben @STT Community
    So here's a my 2 bits of federation credits you didn't ask for...

    And this is only pertaining to my and my point-of-view.

    I'm not thrilled.

    Only because I can't achieve the purpose of the game. For 7.5 years, I've been told to and tried and succeeded at collecting and immortalizing every card in the game. Every card. This is a card collecting game and when a person invests insanely substantial real world money over 7 years, they expect an avenue to even eventually get every card.

    Gauntlet has always been problematic because Locutus is a 100% guarantee at 20k rounds, but beyond that you can spend and spend and spend and spend....well, you've heard it before better from others. More gauntlet exclusive cards further dilute the pool and prevent people from doing what you want them to do, capture every card. This is a business for profit after all, you are trying to earn money and achieve metrics and get me to spend. It turns me off greatly when I can't brute force or just buy something.

    Voyage exclusives have further soured that. Again, time limited, but I can and I do non-stop voyages, but statistically i am limited to so many chances at a dilemma that will 1/500 reward me one of two gold cards I don't own. So mathematically you can accurately plot with Statistics 101 there are players who could voyage daily until the end of the game and not encounter those crew.

    You see the problem here right?

    I can't get all the crew anymore.

    That makes me want to quit.

    It's already made me stop spending.

    Again this is only me, no one else, and I'm just bemoaning my opinion so it's at least out there with everyone else's. I know the team is limited in size and scope now, but serious consideration needs to be given to other avenues to earn/buy/guarantee exclusive crew. Otherwise your card collecting game is pointless.

  • AviTrek wrote: »
    I’m feeling like the point of putting a top voyager as a gauntlet reward is an attempt to get people to play gauntlet. I absolutely despised gauntlet and wouldn’t even do it for OE’s however if that was the only way to get a crew that is a top voyager, I would play it until I got one copy and cite it up

    That's exactly what Nancy said:
    Hey everyone, just wanted to give you a quick update on this. We didn't mix anything up - the information is correct. We intentionally made the voyage crew strong in Gauntlet and vice versa to promote more feature to feature flow.
    As for communication, we always share the information as soon as we receive it. So before directing any negativity towards the team or employees, let's try to be respectful and considerate. Thanks.

    If you want a good voyager, you need to play gauntlet to get her. If you want a good gauntlet crew, you need to run voyages to get him. That way players are encourage to play other parts of the game.

    I did see that but I guess I took “feature to feature flow” in a different way then what I commented

  • Navarch Navarch ✭✭✭✭✭
    A lot of folks here asking for guarantees. TP is adding more RNG to try and keep engagement metrics afloat.

    In a high interest rate environment, it’s pretty unlikely that you can successfully sell a 7 year old game based on engagement. The dumb money has already been or soon will be wiped out.
  • AvatruneiAvatrunei ✭✭✭
    AviTrek wrote: »
    If you want a good voyager, you need to play gauntlet to get her. If you want a good gauntlet crew, you need to run voyages to get him. That way players are encourage to play other parts of the game.
    I understand this decision, and this is something every good game developer does. Make all game features they put hard work into worthwhile playing for their games' players. Now they must only review and tweak the Gauntlet situation, where players putting hard work into high ranking or even winning the Gauntlet doesn't feel absolutely horrible, because RNG screws it up. Winning must generate positive feelings, if they want players playing those Gauntlets. This Gauntlet feature itself isn't the problem, the rewards after it is.
  • Navarch Navarch ✭✭✭✭✭
    Avatrunei wrote: »
    AviTrek wrote: »
    If you want a good voyager, you need to play gauntlet to get her. If you want a good gauntlet crew, you need to run voyages to get him. That way players are encourage to play other parts of the game.
    I understand this decision, and this is something every good game developer does. Make all game features they put hard work into worthwhile playing for their games' players. Now they must only review and tweak the Gauntlet situation, where players putting hard work into high ranking or even winning the Gauntlet doesn't feel absolutely horrible, because RNG screws it up. Winning must generate positive feelings, if they want players playing those Gauntlets. This Gauntlet feature itself isn't the problem, the rewards after it is.

    I’d say it’s both the feature and the rewards that are the problem. Too many random failures in gauntlet becomes very frustrating. Winning a gauntlet and getting bad rewards is also very frustrating.
  • Kim_Novak.IIKim_Novak.II ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think it's a great idea for voyage crew to be claimed in gauntlet & vice versa.
    It means that people will have to play gauntlet for a change
    For a long time I've wondered why should gauntlet/voyage crew be exclusive to their area?
  • Has anyone gotten a copy of Black yet?
  • Sims wrote: »
    I guess I should threaten to quit just to give Colli another chance to post! :)

    i’ve got “well…bye” ready and waiting :tongue:
    “What's a knockout like you doing in a computer-generated gin joint like this?”

    Proud member of Patterns of Force
    Captain Level 99
    Played since January 2017

    TP: Do better!!!
  • <TGE> Darxide<TGE> Darxide ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2023
    He’s 💯 correct Guest_158...
    Ugh, super quick new gauntlet character, from one of the shows that's killing the franchise.

    He's absolutely right about it being a show that's killing a franchise, though. Along wish Disco.

    Let me also say I'm 100% behind Bylo's post above. WRG is steering this ship right into the ground.
  • Veterinary PhloxVeterinary Phlox ✭✭✭✭✭
    We intentionally made the voyage crew strong in Gauntlet and vice versa to promote more feature to feature flow.
    I do see the logic to this cross-integration of gauntlet and voyager crew in the other features.

    This being said, as someone who doesn't enjoy gauntlet, it used to be I didn't feel penalized for skipping it . . . I was just missing out on more gauntlet crew. With the flip, I'm no more likely to play gauntlet, but now I feel penalized for that choice.

    I might be a minority in skipping gauntlet, but it still feels like this move would have been better following some changes in the system or loot table, as a call to try it again.
    Six degrees in Inter-species Veterinary Medicine. Treating all manner of critters, from Tribbles to Humans.

    Starport
  • Veterinary PhloxVeterinary Phlox ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2023
    I'll pass your feedback along to the team, and hopefully we can figure out a way to bring Archer back in the future.
    Gauntlet exclusives are tricky since making them too available will result in scads of mirror matches, but too rare and it's hard for newer players to get into. My thoughts:
    • When gauntlet exclusives get replaced as the top reward, they're added to the Crew Retrieval pool next time it's updated.
    • The gauntlet achievement is extended. Every 5k gauntlets past Locutus gets you the next chronological gauntlet exclusive.

    These all have pros and cons, and I obviously have no idea of the backend complexity to implement either.

    Edit: Apologies, this was intended to be an edit to my above post.
    Six degrees in Inter-species Veterinary Medicine. Treating all manner of critters, from Tribbles to Humans.

    Starport
  • IvanstoneIvanstone ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2023
    I've never had much of a problem getting all the Gauntlet crew. I don't think I'm especially lucky. I got a little lucky with Archer but out of about 8 Legendary drops I've had in the past 2 months only two of them are Archer. I do play the Gauntlet often although I don't flawlessly manage my time with it. Also sometimes work interferes with Gauntlet end times for me. To me things seem almost normal because I previously assumed that I would be able to get a 5/5 Archer after 6 months of game play. The only reason I'm not more annoyed because of those previously mentioned 8 Legendary drops, two of those were TKK. Also a Lower Decks crew was added.

    WRG however are going to have to come to grips with something. This is a mature game. The odds of getting specific crew grow perpetually worse as time wears on. You'll probably have to start adding additional means of obtaining crew. Retrieval was a boon but its not flawless.

    Additional Improvements can include:
    *Greatly expand the Gauntlet Achievements.
    *Add a Gauntlet behold to the game as a legacy drop.
    *Post the odds for the Gauntlet. Sorry but if you're going to ask for Dilithium, I also expect to see odds.
    *I imagine that a 3rd Voyage Legendary will be added at some point at which point you'll need to add a Legendary Behold to the game.
    *Add 4* Beholds or even a 4* citation to Voyages. Restrict them to Super Rare Dilemma's if you like.
    *Srsly dump all schematics and rations from a dilemma rewards. No one likes them and even worse they're rare drops that makes the player feel like they've been penalized.
    *I have no idea if the game uses any form of bad luck protection but there should be at least something.

    PS Give me something I can spend Replicator Rations on. It just feels dumb that I'm almost maxed out on them. The only reason I'm not is because I don't feel like mindlessly pushing the same buttons over and over again for no reward.
    VIP 13 - 310 Crew Slots - 1055 Immortals
  • Ivanstone wrote: »
    I've never had much of a problem getting all the Gauntlet crew. I don't think I'm especially lucky. I got a little lucky with Archer but out of about 8 Legendary drops I've had in the past 2 months only two of them are Archer. I do play the Gauntlet often although I don't flawlessly manage my time with it. Also sometimes work interferes with Gauntlet end times for me. To me things seem almost normal because I previously assumed that I would be able to get a 5/5 Archer after 6 months of game play. The only reason I'm not more annoyed because of those previously mentioned 8 Legendary drops, two of those were TKK. Also a Lower Decks crew was added.

    8 Legendary drops in 2 months.... yet he doesn"t feel especially lucky. Just to show you how lucky that is let me tell you I consider myself lucky if I get 1 in 4 months. So no you"re not very lucky at all.
  • weakinteractionweakinteraction ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ivanstone wrote: »
    *Srsly dump all schematics and rations from a dilemma rewards. No one likes them and even worse they're rare drops that makes the player feel like they've been penalized.

    I agree with everything else in your list (including removing rations from dilemmas in this bullet point) but I'm strongly in favour of keeping the schematic drops from voyages (and Dabo) the same (including being from the same relatively small pool) for the sake of new players, who really do like them.

    If you were only able to get schematics drawn from the general ship pool from normal premium pulls, then getting a 5* ship built for use on a) the main map, then up to a level good for b) skirmishes and finally c) getting longer voyages would be a glacially slow process. And once you don't need them any more, it's relatively easy (unlike the rations) to avoid the choice that gives them. Indeed, you can avoid that choice even coming up with the right choice in part one.
  • -:- AZ689-:- AZ689 ✭✭✭
    From my understanding, when you hit the gauntlet jackpot, there are two outcomes - 50% chance to hit the current reward and 50% chance to hit one of the past rewards (6.25% chance for each currently with 8 previous exclusives).

    And the chances of hitting the jackpot are very slim even in 1st place.

    So it is 50% to get the current gauntlet crew of the very low chance of getting the jackpot.
  • IvanstoneIvanstone ✭✭✭✭✭
    A1llas wrote: »
    Ivanstone wrote: »
    I've never had much of a problem getting all the Gauntlet crew. I don't think I'm especially lucky. I got a little lucky with Archer but out of about 8 Legendary drops I've had in the past 2 months only two of them are Archer. I do play the Gauntlet often although I don't flawlessly manage my time with it. Also sometimes work interferes with Gauntlet end times for me. To me things seem almost normal because I previously assumed that I would be able to get a 5/5 Archer after 6 months of game play. The only reason I'm not more annoyed because of those previously mentioned 8 Legendary drops, two of those were TKK. Also a Lower Decks crew was added.

    8 Legendary drops in 2 months.... yet he doesn"t feel especially lucky. Just to show you how lucky that is let me tell you I consider myself lucky if I get 1 in 4 months. So no you"re not very lucky at all.

    And how many Gauntlet rounds are you doing in a day? Probably less than me.

    You won’t have to look very hard to find people who regularly complete their new Gauntlet crew. We’re not lucky. We probably get dozens of wins per day though.
    VIP 13 - 310 Crew Slots - 1055 Immortals
  • IvanstoneIvanstone ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ivanstone wrote: »
    *Srsly dump all schematics and rations from a dilemma rewards. No one likes them and even worse they're rare drops that makes the player feel like they've been penalized.

    I agree with everything else in your list (including removing rations from dilemmas in this bullet point) but I'm strongly in favour of keeping the schematic drops from voyages (and Dabo) the same (including being from the same relatively small pool) for the sake of new players, who really do like them.

    If you were only able to get schematics drawn from the general ship pool from normal premium pulls, then getting a 5* ship built for use on a) the main map, then up to a level good for b) skirmishes and finally c) getting longer voyages would be a glacially slow process. And once you don't need them any more, it's relatively easy (unlike the rations) to avoid the choice that gives them. Indeed, you can avoid that choice even coming up with the right choice in part one.

    I don’t consider Voyages to be a good source of schematics. At this point of the game your main sources of schematics should be Arena and FBB. The latter of which needs to have schematics added to its reward pool.
    VIP 13 - 310 Crew Slots - 1055 Immortals
  • Kim_Novak.IIKim_Novak.II ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ivanstone wrote: »

    PS Give me something I can spend Replicator Rations on. It just feels dumb that I'm almost maxed out on them. The only reason I'm not is because I don't feel like mindlessly pushing the same buttons over and over again for no reward.
    It's possible you could spend them on...replicating stuff? 🤷‍♂️🤔 I know, 😱 right?

    I have crew that I don't level up past a point so you will never equip the item & craft faction only items
  • IvanstoneIvanstone ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ivanstone wrote: »

    PS Give me something I can spend Replicator Rations on. It just feels dumb that I'm almost maxed out on them. The only reason I'm not is because I don't feel like mindlessly pushing the same buttons over and over again for no reward.
    It's possible you could spend them on...replicating stuff? 🤷‍♂️🤔 I know, 😱 right?

    I have crew that I don't level up past a point so you will never equip the item & craft faction only items

    Replicator? Oh right that thing I use once a week.

    I have tens of thousands of components, equipment, schematics and trainers. One crazy thing about this game is that a maxed starbase gives out replicator rations yet you’re still accumulating star base materials which can also be thrown in the replicator.
    VIP 13 - 310 Crew Slots - 1055 Immortals
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