Well they certainly did a great job of rebalancing the trainers. 78 purples on a 5 1/2 hour voyage. Perfect.
Those pesky noobs will be catching up in no time - so long as they keep buying the chrons to match the perfectly rebalanced trainer bonanza.
Well, I'm here to somewhat defend Voyages again. I have logged 107 Voyages before the change on 12/18, and now have 7 Voyages after. I picked at random 7 matching times before the change that match up with the Voyages after the change. Here is the overall comparison of these 14 Voyages:
Note: I adjusted the credits to fit on the graph neatly, so you need to multiply by 100 to get the correct credits (330,500 before and 431,700 after).
While there is a nerf of chrons by about 20%, an increase in credits by 25%, and an increase in trainers by 90%, it really is not as bad that this thread is making it out to be. 1* crew seems to have all but disappeared, but 4* crew (for me) has increased, though I have not hit any of the Voyage-specific crew yet through Dilemmas. And a lot of what I get from this point isn't going to help much, but just be airlock fodder - these 114 Voyages along with 10x and 15x pack offers, I am down to 8 4* crew I don't have, none of which drop in Voyages. Trainers are subjective depending on who you're talking to - great for new players, junk for older players. Hopefully something will be done by DB to add a trading post or replicator muncher that we can convert useless trainers, schematics, and items we have more than 200 of into credits, merits, or even chrons.
So getting back to the chrons... yes chrons are what Voyages are all about for many. Anything additional is just that - additional items you didn't have before the Voyage. Extending a Voyage guarantees nothing but chrons, credits, and honor. People think they're "buying" 4* crew by extending. If you're expecting 4* crew, you're deluding yourself. Don't expect it - but when it happens, be happy about it!
Since the reduction, chrons have dropped by 20% or so, but still Voyages are more lucrative than anything else in the game to get chrons, and I believe still worth 1 or 2 revives (totalling 180-200 dil) for the extra chrons. I see people here saying "Well DB took the reason for doing Voyages away by nerfing chrons so I won't be reviving anymore". On the 20h Voyage I show below, I ran out of AM at 7h 23m and had 225 chrons. I revived for 89 dil and at 9h 40m i had 537 chrons (312 for 89 dil). I revived for 117 dil and at 11h 56m I had 762 dil (225 for 117 dil). This is usually where I recall, so for this Voyage, 206 dil got me an extra 537 chrons - still much better than buying 2 ticket refresh on M/W/F for 300 dil to get only 300 chrons. If I do 1 Voyage with 2 revives a day for 1 week, that's about 1400 dil for 3,750 chrons (vs 1500 dil for 1500 chrons if you do 3 ticket refreshes on M/W/F for 150/150/200 dil 3 times a week).
You will also see diminishing returns after 2-3 revies as you spend more dil, but don't get more chrons in relation to the curve. As shown above, after the first 2 revives, for 206 dil I got 537 chrons (2.6:1). The next 4 revives I spent 740 dil and I got only 765 chrons (1.03:1). The only thing you do by extending past the first 2 revives is increase your chance ever-so-"slightly" to get a voyage-only crew drop from a Dilemma.
I haven't seen a free timer chron in awhile since I don't spend my Voyage chrons all the way down below 180, saving for events or not able to hit crew hard for items because I am low on credits. Anyway, the free chron timer gives you 1 chron every 6 minutes if you're not over your max. This is 10 per hour, or 240 over 24 hours. This is 0.16 chrons per minute. Voyages before the change ranged from 0.74 to 1.62. Since the change the 7 voyages range from 0.91 to 1.2 chrons per minute - this is still 6 to 8 times more than waiting for the timer.
Also remember that chrons and honor will fluctuate depending on the Dilemmas you encounter. If you have 3 Dilemmas in a 7h voyage and they're all 30/30/2*, that's 90 chrons. If those 3 are 100/75/4*, that's 225 chrons - a BIG difference in both honor and chrons. You hope for the 4*, but there are 17 2* Dilemmas and only 8 4* Dilemmas (see this post for Dilemma stats)
I happened to do a 20h Voyage just before the change, mostly by accident as I kept missing the recall. I also just did a 20 hour Voyage for the achievement. So I can compare these two as well. After the 20h Voyage, I ended up with (8) 4* crew, 3 of which were from dilemmas. So having 5 drop from random loot boxes ( and 1 3* ), this has been the most crew dropped random for me since the change. I have seen (1) 1* crew in the last 8 Voyages - used to avg 2 or 3 along with additional 2* and 3* crew. More than half my Voyage honor used to come from airlocked crew. Here's a comparison chart - I did not include credits on this, but the before dropped 74,900 and the after dropped 112,300.
I have other graphs comparing other like-time Voyages - one for a 13½ hour and 5 in the 11 hour range. I haven't done any non-revive Voyages. Bottom line, while this change can be considered a nerf and the difference will add up over time with losing 20% of the chrons, it will still add up over time to give you more chrons than you'll ever get by other means. Also consider the increase in 2* items after the 4h mark. These 2* components would cost you chrons to get. While many will build up and not get used so often, others will be needed all the time (2* casings, databases, alcohol, etc). I will continue to track my Voyages and share more data in the future.
Thanks Captain Jello. I did a bit of number crunching earlier today too, the RNG is much more random so it will take a while to even out and get an average but I must admit it didn't look as bad as I'd originally thought. On my first 12 hour voyage I was getting chroniton cache drops of between 3 and 12 between dilemmas, as you can imagine that can skew results significantly with smaller samples. Previously chroniton cache drops were much more regular. Thanks for the share!
One important nuance from Jello's "7 voyages" there is that he is averaging around 13 hours per voyage. For those who haven't been extending, I would expect to see less of a chronoton nerf, as they have indicated that the nerf falls harder on the 6+ hour range.
Wow DB, you really know how to add insult to injury!
Apparently, all of the new, voyage-only 4* crew added to the game are ONE-SHOTONLY!!
So if you're ever lucky enough to have one drop, you have no hope of ever fusing it and it will remain a 1/4 forever unless you cite it with Honor. Why DB would you eliminate one of the last remaining incentives for extending voyages???
On the 20h Voyage I show below, I ran out of AM at 7h 23m and had 225 chrons. I revived for 89 dil and at 9h 40m i had 537 chrons (312 for 89 dil). I revived for 117 dil and at 11h 56m I had 762 dil (225 for 117 dil). This is usually where I recall, so for this Voyage, 206 dil got me an extra 537 chrons - still much better than buying 2 ticket refresh on M/W/F for 300 dil to get only 300 chrons. If I do 1 Voyage with 2 revives a day for 1 week, that's about 1400 dil for 3,750 chrons (vs 1500 dil for 1500 chrons if you do 3 ticket refreshes on M/W/F for 150/150/200 dil 3 times a week).
Point of detail, based on your figures your 206 Dil got you approximately 400 more chrons. You see, if you recalled your voyage at 7h23mins you could have spent the extra time on a free voyage. For example, five 8 hour voyages can be done in the same time as four 10 hour voyages. So if you were working out how much extra you got by extending an 8 hour voyage to a 10 hour one, you would need to compare the expected gains of five 8 hour voyages to four ten hour ones (or the rewards from a ten hour voyage minus 1.25* the rewards from an 8 hour one). A 11h56min voyage is 1.616*the length of a 7h23m voyage. The 225 chrons you got from the 7h23 voyage multiplied by 1.616 = 363 chrons. The 11h56m voyage got you 762 chrons or approximately 400 more. If your figures are representative that is still better than buying extra tickets (which I never do - I would only consider using dil to extend voyages for the 4* crew, I already have more chrons than I need) but it is worth bearing in mind that the true calculation is a bit more complicated. For those of us using dil to "buy" a better chance of a 4*, I think the comparison between what we can get from just running more unextended voyages versus spending Dil to extend them is less favourable! It all depends on whether you have a use (or desire) for particular types of voyage reward.
Well, I'm here to somewhat defend Voyages again. I have logged 107 Voyages before the change on 12/18, and now have 7 Voyages after. I picked at random 7 matching times before the change that match up with the Voyages after the change. Here is the overall comparison of these 14 Voyages:
Note: I adjusted the credits to fit on the graph neatly, so you need to multiply by 100 to get the correct credits (330,500 before and 431,700 after).
While there is a nerf of chrons by about 20%, an increase in credits by 25%, and an increase in trainers by 90%, it really is not as bad that this thread is making it out to be. 1* crew seems to have all but disappeared, but 4* crew (for me) has increased, though I have not hit any of the Voyage-specific crew yet through Dilemmas. And a lot of what I get from this point isn't going to help much, but just be airlock fodder - these 114 Voyages along with 10x and 15x pack offers, I am down to 8 4* crew I don't have, none of which drop in Voyages. Trainers are subjective depending on who you're talking to - great for new players, junk for older players. Hopefully something will be done by DB to add a trading post or replicator muncher that we can convert useless trainers, schematics, and items we have more than 200 of into credits, merits, or even chrons.
So getting back to the chrons... yes chrons are what Voyages are all about for many. Anything additional is just that - additional items you didn't have before the Voyage. Extending a Voyage guarantees nothing but chrons, credits, and honor. People think they're "buying" 4* crew by extending. If you're expecting 4* crew, you're deluding yourself. Don't expect it - but when it happens, be happy about it!
Since the reduction, chrons have dropped by 20% or so, but still Voyages are more lucrative than anything else in the game to get chrons, and I believe still worth 1 or 2 revives (totalling 180-200 dil) for the extra chrons. I see people here saying "Well DB took the reason for doing Voyages away by nerfing chrons so I won't be reviving anymore". On the 20h Voyage I show below, I ran out of AM at 7h 23m and had 225 chrons. I revived for 89 dil and at 9h 40m i had 537 chrons (312 for 89 dil). I revived for 117 dil and at 11h 56m I had 762 dil (225 for 117 dil). This is usually where I recall, so for this Voyage, 206 dil got me an extra 537 chrons - still much better than buying 2 ticket refresh on M/W/F for 300 dil to get only 300 chrons. If I do 1 Voyage with 2 revives a day for 1 week, that's about 1400 dil for 3,750 chrons (vs 1500 dil for 1500 chrons if you do 3 ticket refreshes on M/W/F for 150/150/200 dil 3 times a week).
You will also see diminishing returns after 2-3 revies as you spend more dil, but don't get more chrons in relation to the curve. As shown above, after the first 2 revives, for 206 dil I got 537 chrons (2.6:1). The next 4 revives I spent 740 dil and I got only 765 chrons (1.03:1). The only thing you do by extending past the first 2 revives is increase your chance ever-so-"slightly" to get a voyage-only crew drop from a Dilemma.
I haven't seen a free timer chron in awhile since I don't spend my Voyage chrons all the way down below 180, saving for events or not able to hit crew hard for items because I am low on credits. Anyway, the free chron timer gives you 1 chron every 6 minutes if you're not over your max. This is 10 per hour, or 240 over 24 hours. This is 0.16 chrons per minute. Voyages before the change ranged from 0.74 to 1.62. Since the change the 7 voyages range from 0.91 to 1.2 chrons per minute - this is still 6 to 8 times more than waiting for the timer.
Also remember that chrons and honor will fluctuate depending on the Dilemmas you encounter. If you have 3 Dilemmas in a 7h voyage and they're all 30/30/2*, that's 90 chrons. If those 3 are 100/75/4*, that's 225 chrons - a BIG difference in both honor and chrons. You hope for the 4*, but there are 17 2* Dilemmas and only 8 4* Dilemmas (see this post for Dilemma stats)
I happened to do a 20h Voyage just before the change, mostly by accident as I kept missing the recall. I also just did a 20 hour Voyage for the achievement. So I can compare these two as well. After the 20h Voyage, I ended up with (8) 4* crew, 3 of which were from dilemmas. So having 5 drop from random loot boxes ( and 1 3* ), this has been the most crew dropped random for me since the change. I have seen (1) 1* crew in the last 8 Voyages - used to avg 2 or 3 along with additional 2* and 3* crew. More than half my Voyage honor used to come from airlocked crew. Here's a comparison chart - I did not include credits on this, but the before dropped 74,900 and the after dropped 112,300.
I have other graphs comparing other like-time Voyages - one for a 13½ hour and 5 in the 11 hour range. I haven't done any non-revive Voyages. Bottom line, while this change can be considered a nerf and the difference will add up over time with losing 20% of the chrons, it will still add up over time to give you more chrons than you'll ever get by other means. Also consider the increase in 2* items after the 4h mark. These 2* components would cost you chrons to get. While many will build up and not get used so often, others will be needed all the time (2* casings, databases, alcohol, etc). I will continue to track my Voyages and share more data in the future.
Happy New Year!
Thank you for the data.
Some other estimates of folks collecting data have said 25-30 but this would seem to be in the margin of error for both data collections.
That being said. 20% = slight?
Additionally, since folks keep talking about currency balance, an increase of credits of 36000 is equivalent of getting 10 DIL worth of credits. Chrons are purchased at a cost of 150 DIL for 50. There needs to be a whole lot more credits added to balance the equation to be anything other than a value nerf for dilithium spent if you extend.
Only hard data DB will check is if spending is down pre-post voyages and compare it to the data of the 1250 chrons for 9.99. If it's a major drop off in spending in voyages I'm sure you'll hear something like this...
We have reviewed player feedback regarding balancing voyages it was our aim to relieve player frustration for new players but reviewing player feedback from new and veteran players we have decided to add more chrons and more credits to voyages. It was never our intention to reduce chronitons to impact a players experience to level crew or participate in a galaxy event. Wishing all our players a Happy New Year in 2020
LLAP
Timelines Team
Time has passed and with the time and decision made by DB, there has been a clear cut off supplies, like Chronotons, Replicator Rations, Crew, and other things in favor of Money and Training programs which hasn't been noticeable to me at least, my Federation Credit account hasn't even reached 2 millions credits yet, and I had already zillions of Training Programs.
So what about compansating our lost loot with for instance Shuttle Boost packs or 3* or 4* Premium portal pulls, 3* Premium pulls already exist on the Gauntlet.
Speaking of boosts, maybe a whole new class of Voyage boosts is needed. You could choose between an increased chance of more chrons, credits, crew, etc.
I can assure you that no matter what you graph out we have indeed seen a crew Nerf to the point that at 6 hrs there are still no crew outside of dilemmas, those being 2* crew for the most part. I have participated in at least 6 voyages of extended duration(10 to 19) after the patch , and the story is a carbon copy no crew, even at 12 hrs where the 3*and 4* should be dropping like flies there are no crew. As a newer player I came to depend on voyages to enhance my crew roster, but alas that has all changed now. Thanks DB
Speaking of boosts, maybe a whole new class of Voyage boosts is needed. You could choose between an increased chance of more chrons, credits, crew, etc.
Speaking of boosts, maybe a whole new class of Voyage boosts is needed. You could choose between an increased chance of more chrons, credits, crew, etc.
I would prefer they simply added Premium portals 3* o 4*, preferably shuttle boosts, in my case Crew time portals **tsk tsk**, rarely I get something decent. In the beginning time portals offered me most of the time 1 4* and 1 5* crew, now the give me mostly 3* crew and almost never a 5* Behold... things have changed definitely for worse...
Comments
Those pesky noobs will be catching up in no time - so long as they keep buying the chrons to match the perfectly rebalanced trainer bonanza.
Check out our website to find out more:
https://wiki.tenforwardloungers.com/
Note: I adjusted the credits to fit on the graph neatly, so you need to multiply by 100 to get the correct credits (330,500 before and 431,700 after).
While there is a nerf of chrons by about 20%, an increase in credits by 25%, and an increase in trainers by 90%, it really is not as bad that this thread is making it out to be. 1* crew seems to have all but disappeared, but 4* crew (for me) has increased, though I have not hit any of the Voyage-specific crew yet through Dilemmas. And a lot of what I get from this point isn't going to help much, but just be airlock fodder - these 114 Voyages along with 10x and 15x pack offers, I am down to 8 4* crew I don't have, none of which drop in Voyages. Trainers are subjective depending on who you're talking to - great for new players, junk for older players. Hopefully something will be done by DB to add a trading post or replicator muncher that we can convert useless trainers, schematics, and items we have more than 200 of into credits, merits, or even chrons.
So getting back to the chrons... yes chrons are what Voyages are all about for many. Anything additional is just that - additional items you didn't have before the Voyage. Extending a Voyage guarantees nothing but chrons, credits, and honor. People think they're "buying" 4* crew by extending. If you're expecting 4* crew, you're deluding yourself. Don't expect it - but when it happens, be happy about it!
Since the reduction, chrons have dropped by 20% or so, but still Voyages are more lucrative than anything else in the game to get chrons, and I believe still worth 1 or 2 revives (totalling 180-200 dil) for the extra chrons. I see people here saying "Well DB took the reason for doing Voyages away by nerfing chrons so I won't be reviving anymore". On the 20h Voyage I show below, I ran out of AM at 7h 23m and had 225 chrons. I revived for 89 dil and at 9h 40m i had 537 chrons (312 for 89 dil). I revived for 117 dil and at 11h 56m I had 762 dil (225 for 117 dil). This is usually where I recall, so for this Voyage, 206 dil got me an extra 537 chrons - still much better than buying 2 ticket refresh on M/W/F for 300 dil to get only 300 chrons. If I do 1 Voyage with 2 revives a day for 1 week, that's about 1400 dil for 3,750 chrons (vs 1500 dil for 1500 chrons if you do 3 ticket refreshes on M/W/F for 150/150/200 dil 3 times a week).
You will also see diminishing returns after 2-3 revies as you spend more dil, but don't get more chrons in relation to the curve. As shown above, after the first 2 revives, for 206 dil I got 537 chrons (2.6:1). The next 4 revives I spent 740 dil and I got only 765 chrons (1.03:1). The only thing you do by extending past the first 2 revives is increase your chance ever-so-"slightly" to get a voyage-only crew drop from a Dilemma.
I haven't seen a free timer chron in awhile since I don't spend my Voyage chrons all the way down below 180, saving for events or not able to hit crew hard for items because I am low on credits. Anyway, the free chron timer gives you 1 chron every 6 minutes if you're not over your max. This is 10 per hour, or 240 over 24 hours. This is 0.16 chrons per minute. Voyages before the change ranged from 0.74 to 1.62. Since the change the 7 voyages range from 0.91 to 1.2 chrons per minute - this is still 6 to 8 times more than waiting for the timer.
Also remember that chrons and honor will fluctuate depending on the Dilemmas you encounter. If you have 3 Dilemmas in a 7h voyage and they're all 30/30/2*, that's 90 chrons. If those 3 are 100/75/4*, that's 225 chrons - a BIG difference in both honor and chrons. You hope for the 4*, but there are 17 2* Dilemmas and only 8 4* Dilemmas (see this post for Dilemma stats)
I happened to do a 20h Voyage just before the change, mostly by accident as I kept missing the recall. I also just did a 20 hour Voyage for the achievement. So I can compare these two as well. After the 20h Voyage, I ended up with (8) 4* crew, 3 of which were from dilemmas. So having 5 drop from random loot boxes ( and 1 3* ), this has been the most crew dropped random for me since the change. I have seen (1) 1* crew in the last 8 Voyages - used to avg 2 or 3 along with additional 2* and 3* crew. More than half my Voyage honor used to come from airlocked crew. Here's a comparison chart - I did not include credits on this, but the before dropped 74,900 and the after dropped 112,300.
I have other graphs comparing other like-time Voyages - one for a 13½ hour and 5 in the 11 hour range. I haven't done any non-revive Voyages. Bottom line, while this change can be considered a nerf and the difference will add up over time with losing 20% of the chrons, it will still add up over time to give you more chrons than you'll ever get by other means. Also consider the increase in 2* items after the 4h mark. These 2* components would cost you chrons to get. While many will build up and not get used so often, others will be needed all the time (2* casings, databases, alcohol, etc). I will continue to track my Voyages and share more data in the future.
Happy New Year!
Wow. Nice. Thanks you.
Check out our website to find out more:
https://wiki.tenforwardloungers.com/
Kudos, thanks for the data.
Apparently, all of the new, voyage-only 4* crew added to the game are ONE-SHOT ONLY!!
So if you're ever lucky enough to have one drop, you have no hope of ever fusing it and it will remain a 1/4 forever unless you cite it with Honor. Why DB would you eliminate one of the last remaining incentives for extending voyages???
Un-fucqing-believable...
Point of detail, based on your figures your 206 Dil got you approximately 400 more chrons. You see, if you recalled your voyage at 7h23mins you could have spent the extra time on a free voyage. For example, five 8 hour voyages can be done in the same time as four 10 hour voyages. So if you were working out how much extra you got by extending an 8 hour voyage to a 10 hour one, you would need to compare the expected gains of five 8 hour voyages to four ten hour ones (or the rewards from a ten hour voyage minus 1.25* the rewards from an 8 hour one). A 11h56min voyage is 1.616*the length of a 7h23m voyage. The 225 chrons you got from the 7h23 voyage multiplied by 1.616 = 363 chrons. The 11h56m voyage got you 762 chrons or approximately 400 more. If your figures are representative that is still better than buying extra tickets (which I never do - I would only consider using dil to extend voyages for the 4* crew, I already have more chrons than I need) but it is worth bearing in mind that the true calculation is a bit more complicated. For those of us using dil to "buy" a better chance of a 4*, I think the comparison between what we can get from just running more unextended voyages versus spending Dil to extend them is less favourable! It all depends on whether you have a use (or desire) for particular types of voyage reward.
Thank you for the data.
Some other estimates of folks collecting data have said 25-30 but this would seem to be in the margin of error for both data collections.
That being said. 20% = slight?
Additionally, since folks keep talking about currency balance, an increase of credits of 36000 is equivalent of getting 10 DIL worth of credits. Chrons are purchased at a cost of 150 DIL for 50. There needs to be a whole lot more credits added to balance the equation to be anything other than a value nerf for dilithium spent if you extend.
We have reviewed player feedback regarding balancing voyages it was our aim to relieve player frustration for new players but reviewing player feedback from new and veteran players we have decided to add more chrons and more credits to voyages. It was never our intention to reduce chronitons to impact a players experience to level crew or participate in a galaxy event. Wishing all our players a Happy New Year in 2020
LLAP
Timelines Team
So what about compansating our lost loot with for instance Shuttle Boost packs or 3* or 4* Premium portal pulls, 3* Premium pulls already exist on the Gauntlet.
^that would just be feeding the monetary trolls
I would prefer they simply added Premium portals 3* o 4*, preferably shuttle boosts, in my case Crew time portals **tsk tsk**, rarely I get something decent. In the beginning time portals offered me most of the time 1 4* and 1 5* crew, now the give me mostly 3* crew and almost never a 5* Behold... things have changed definitely for worse...