And last but not least, why would her gun be crafted by 20th Century guns? Also, a war report, which makes sense because They are in the middle of a war??
Yet conspicuously absent from both her and Combat Medic Paris is the Sainte Claire holoprogram, which is present on Mademoiselle de Neuf and GI Chakotay.
I submit that Combat Medic Paris is also non canon, answering the oft asked question of why he's a combat medic and has medical skills, despite Bobby Davis showing no signs of being a medic.
I agree about how suspicious it is that they don’t have the holoprogram. But, I reiterate:
I hope you realize that the Wiki is not official. Those are the only places in the show where we see the characters dressed like that, yet the traits, skills, and/or art are not entirely consistent with the source material. And they need those items because they are part of the costume, the same reason why Gangster Kirk and Spock need Tommy Guns or Bajoran Dukat needs Bajoran Earrings.
Also, Agent Janeway's wiki page was changed to say "non-canon."
If anything, I would argue that characters like Agent Janeway and Combat Medic Paris that aren't the exact versions seen in the show, but aren't completely made up like Augment Picard or Mirror Janeway, could be called quasi-canon, semi-canon, the margarine of canon, the Diet Coke of canon. Just 1 calorie, not canon enough!
🤦♂️SHE HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH SECTION 31!!!!
Nothing except for having the trait and working for them in the event she was created for. Sort of like how Aviator Yar has nothing to do with being a Pilot.
And last but not least, why would her gun be crafted by 20th Century guns? Also, a war report, which makes sense because They are in the middle of a war??
Yet conspicuously absent from both her and Combat Medic Paris is the Sainte Claire holoprogram, which is present on Mademoiselle de Neuf and GI Chakotay.
I submit that Combat Medic Paris is also non canon, answering the oft asked question of why he's a combat medic and has medical skills, despite Bobby Davis showing no signs of being a medic.
I agree about how suspicious it is that they don’t have the holoprogram. But, I reiterate:
I hope you realize that the Wiki is not official. Those are the only places in the show where we see the characters dressed like that, yet the traits, skills, and/or art are not entirely consistent with the source material. And they need those items because they are part of the costume, the same reason why Gangster Kirk and Spock need Tommy Guns or Bajoran Dukat needs Bajoran Earrings.
Also, Agent Janeway's wiki page was changed to say "non-canon."
If anything, I would argue that characters like Agent Janeway and Combat Medic Paris that aren't the exact versions seen in the show, but aren't completely made up like Augment Picard or Mirror Janeway, could be called quasi-canon, semi-canon, the margarine of canon, the Diet Coke of canon. Just 1 calorie, not canon enough!
So, I guess I should request for DB to add Bobby Davis and French Resistance Katrine then?
“What's a knockout like you doing in a computer-generated gin joint like this?”
Proud member of Patterns of Force
Captain Level 99
Played since January 2017
You people are weird. Resistance Janeway or Killing Game Janeway or French Janeway or Section 31 Janeway or Agent Janeway, it’s all the same Janeway. I guess you could say it’s not right, it’s not wrong, it’s just Janeway. Also, out of all the many Janeways you pick this one to argue about?! I could understand some arguments about Pirate Janeway, but this is just an odd choice. Again, you people are weird.
Weirdly enough, I’m also Vulcan Housewife. Also, RNGesus hates me, like really, REALLY hates me.
You people are weird. Resistance Janeway or Killing Game Janeway or French Janeway or Section 31 Janeway or Agent Janeway, it’s all the same Janeway. I guess you could say it’s not right, it’s not wrong, it’s just Janeway. Also, out of all the many Janeways you pick this one to argue about?! I could understand some arguments about Pirate Janeway, but this is just an odd choice. Again, you people are weird.
Agent Janeway is bonus crew because she has the Section 31 trait. Arguing about her is somewhat relevant to the topic of the thread.
Lost in all this discussion about the validity of various Janeways having the Section 31 trait is the fact that we have no proof that Janeway wasn't Section 31 the whole time.
Lost in all this discussion about the validity of various Janeways having the Section 31 trait is the fact that we have no proof that Janeway wasn't Section 31 the whole time.
Finally, someone has introduced a new subtext to read into VOY that might make it interesting for me. I mean, not enough that I'm gonna slog back through it, but someone should and report back.
Lost in all this discussion about the validity of various Janeways having the Section 31 trait is the fact that we have no proof that Janeway wasn't Section 31 the whole time.
Seven almost discovered her that time she downloaded all those logs directly in to her systems, but Janeway covered her tracks nicely. Sneaky, that one.
Sisko: What are you gonna learn in the next few months that you haven't already learned in the last 300 years?
Ezri Dax: Oh, how to keep from breaking into tears for no reason...
This is just the same case as Convergence Day Quark. Canon image/costume used for non-canon character. So what?
BTW I changed wiki info for Agent Janeway, so it should be clear now.
Leader of the Czechoslovak Fleet (Starbase level 134). We are recruiting!
This is just the same case as Convergence Day Quark. Canon image/costume used for non-canon character. So what?
BTW I changed wiki info for Agent Janeway, so it should be clear now.
Quark isn't canon? I was certain he was.
Admiral of the Haus of GaghGagh, Starbase level 94, we are not accepting members at this time.
Captain of the voyage vessels: Queen of Bashir, Landsknecht, and Sunspear, the first luxury starship cruiseliners.
Amenities include wifi, fully-functioning holodecks, a full-service bar, 3 party decks, a Trill spa, and a business centre.
Fun fact: The ships are propelled by bouncy castle technology.
This is just the same case as Convergence Day Quark. Canon image/costume used for non-canon character. So what?
BTW I changed wiki info for Agent Janeway, so it should be clear now.
Quark isn't canon? I was certain he was.
Convergence Day Quark, where he is celebrating the temporal anomaly crisis? How on earth could he be canon?
Sisko: What are you gonna learn in the next few months that you haven't already learned in the last 300 years?
Ezri Dax: Oh, how to keep from breaking into tears for no reason...
I wasn’t around when the event first played sooo.. why does everyone call this the cursed event?
Gather 'round, young'uns, I'mma tell y'all a story. It began on the twenty fifth day in the month of August in the Year of Our Lord two thousand and sixteen, when "The Prime Directive" went live at noon Eastern Standard Time, the same as every event before and since. Except this time, there was a flaw in the slaw. Every time any of us crafted an item, the game crashed and had to restart. Didn't make no difference whether 'twas one item or another, or who was doin' the craftin'. Nope, it just set that game into a tizzy. Within the hour, the event was "paused". All our progress was preserved (what little there was, anyway).
The team scrambled throughout that evening to write an entirely new Faction Event on the fly, which they dubbed "Unlikely Heroes"--surely a nod to their own valiant work to rescue the weekend. The Faction Event format in those days only featured one 4* crew; three copies in the Thresholds and up to four in the Rank Rewards. It was decided to make Agent Harris the event's 4*, though Tucker variants qualified for the event bonus.
For our troubles, we were all sent an in-game message with an unprecedented 1000 "we're sorry" chronitons, thereafter referred to as "sorrytons". "Unlikely Heroes" unfolded as intended, and we were assured that "The Prime Directive" would be "unpaused" as soon as the bug that interrupted it had been squashed. Sounded find to all of us, except it kept not happening.
See, it needed to be fixed with the 1.4 build.
Then it needed to be fixed with the 1.5.1 build. By now, we're into the month of October. It was decided by now to give us all a break--DB staff included--and run no event the weekend of 20 October 2016. We got a free weekend...and 1000 "sorrytons".
The new build would be approved by Apple and "The Prime Directive" would "unpause" the following weekend (27 October). Except that didn't happen, either.
Nope, instead, there were still problems, which is how we got "Ghost in the Machine" and another 1000 "sorrytons". "The Prime Directive" was pushed back to 4 November, except it didn't happen then, either. We got "Dictators, Unite!"...and another 1000 "sorrytons".
It wasn't until 17 November 2016 that "The Prime Directive" finally "unpaused", with any and all progress made in that scant hour it was originally live preserved as promised. By then, we'd gone through at least three delays, two server builds, one eventless weekend, and 3000 "sorrytons".
And that's the legend of the Cursed Event.
Thanks for the recap, Travis. That brought back some memories. Unnecessary comment removed. ˜Shan
Lost in all this discussion about the validity of various Janeways having the Section 31 trait is the fact that we have no proof that Janeway wasn't Section 31 the whole time.
Finally, someone has introduced a new subtext to read into VOY that might make it interesting for me. I mean, not enough that I'm gonna slog back through it, but someone should and report back.
Ooh. I just started a VOY rewatch this weekend. This could be interesting to watch for.
Problem 1: Section 31 Janeway would never strand VOY for the sake of protecting the Ocampa. She would steal whatever technology she could from The Array and then return home with it to give the Federation a technological advantage.
Lost in all this discussion about the validity of various Janeways having the Section 31 trait is the fact that we have no proof that Janeway wasn't Section 31 the whole time.
Finally, someone has introduced a new subtext to read into VOY that might make it interesting for me. I mean, not enough that I'm gonna slog back through it, but someone should and report back.
Ooh. I just started a VOY rewatch this weekend. This could be interesting to watch for.
Problem 1: Section 31 Janeway would never strand VOY for the sake of protecting the Ocampa. She would steal whatever technology she could from The Array and then return home with it to give the Federation a technological advantage.
That's what we call deep cover. The woman is committed.
We saw future Janeway had access to time travel. Maybe the finale wasn't the first time she used it. If you had a "guarantee" from your future self that you'll make it home, maybe her orders were to acquire as much Delta Quadrant tech as possible.
Lost in all this discussion about the validity of various Janeways having the Section 31 trait is the fact that we have no proof that Janeway wasn't Section 31 the whole time.
Finally, someone has introduced a new subtext to read into VOY that might make it interesting for me. I mean, not enough that I'm gonna slog back through it, but someone should and report back.
Ooh. I just started a VOY rewatch this weekend. This could be interesting to watch for.
Problem 1: Section 31 Janeway would never strand VOY for the sake of protecting the Ocampa. She would steal whatever technology she could from The Array and then return home with it to give the Federation a technological advantage.
That's what we call deep cover. The woman is committed.
We saw future Janeway had access to time travel. Maybe the finale wasn't the first time she used it. If you had a "guarantee" from your future self that you'll make it home, maybe her orders were to acquire as much Delta Quadrant tech as possible.
Why's it always about the tech? Section 31 wasn't the Borg, lol. They also were into political and other manipulations. Maybe Section 31 wanted make sure there wasn't another Dominion out there, or to destabilize the Borg, Kazon and other forces that might threaten the Federation someday.
Lost in all this discussion about the validity of various Janeways having the Section 31 trait is the fact that we have no proof that Janeway wasn't Section 31 the whole time.
Finally, someone has introduced a new subtext to read into VOY that might make it interesting for me. I mean, not enough that I'm gonna slog back through it, but someone should and report back.
Ooh. I just started a VOY rewatch this weekend. This could be interesting to watch for.
Problem 1: Section 31 Janeway would never strand VOY for the sake of protecting the Ocampa. She would steal whatever technology she could from The Array and then return home with it to give the Federation a technological advantage.
That's what we call deep cover. The woman is committed.
We saw future Janeway had access to time travel. Maybe the finale wasn't the first time she used it. If you had a "guarantee" from your future self that you'll make it home, maybe her orders were to acquire as much Delta Quadrant tech as possible.
Why's it always about the tech? Section 31 wasn't the Borg, lol. They also were into political and other manipulations. Maybe Section 31 wanted make sure there wasn't another Dominion out there, or to destabilize the Borg, Kazon and other forces that might threaten the Federation someday.
I mentioned tech in response to his post, but if we're talking about sec31's role to protect The Federation vis-a-vis the Delta Quadrant, it seems to me that acquiring superior technology and crippling the Borg would be pretty strong means to that end.
I agree that would be an interesting thought to entertain while re-watching the series, but as a standalone point, it would take way too long to thoroughly unpack the possibilities.
Lost in all this discussion about the validity of various Janeways having the Section 31 trait is the fact that we have no proof that Janeway wasn't Section 31 the whole time.
Finally, someone has introduced a new subtext to read into VOY that might make it interesting for me. I mean, not enough that I'm gonna slog back through it, but someone should and report back.
Ooh. I just started a VOY rewatch this weekend. This could be interesting to watch for.
Problem 1: Section 31 Janeway would never strand VOY for the sake of protecting the Ocampa. She would steal whatever technology she could from The Array and then return home with it to give the Federation a technological advantage.
Section 31 played the long game. Why stop at stealing tech from the Array? Maybe they were looking for another super power to ally themselves with, or protect themselves against. Or they were looking to gain more intel on the Borg/
Maybe, the plan was for Janeway to strand the crew in the Delta quadrant, which would give her crew (and Starfleet) extra motivation to establish communication/transport to and from the Delta Quadrant, thereby expanding Section 31's reach, as well as their knowledge. Stealing stuff from the Array is a one-time deal, but establishing a connection to the Delta Quadrant? That opens up possibilities.
“Treason, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.” - Elim Garak
Cardassian wishlist: Tora Ziyal - Thanks!
Natima Lang
Empok Nor Garak
Tekeny Ghemor
Mira
Makbar
Dejar
Ulani Belor
Lost in all this discussion about the validity of various Janeways having the Section 31 trait is the fact that we have no proof that Janeway wasn't Section 31 the whole time.
Seven almost discovered her that time she downloaded all those logs directly in to her systems, but Janeway covered her tracks nicely. Sneaky, that one.
There is no question Section 31 would have tried to recruit Janeway, at least. She was a Temporal Time Agent at times, she traveled in parts unknown, she was used to deep cover operations (Tuvok and the Maquis) and she was as sneaky all hell, to use a phrase she would probably employ herself.
She was determined, to the point of ruthlessness at times, she would bend the rules as far as she could, and was a highly competent captain, diplomat, and scientist. She used covert operations, and gathered together a crew which was part Maquis and made them work together with Starfleet despite the differences.
She was brilliant, lovable and highly competent, and managed achieve things most captains would have failed at at the first hurdle.
She would have been a perfect Section 31 agent, so long as she thought she was doing the right thing.
There is no question Section 31 would have tried to recruit Janeway, at least. She was a Temporal Time Agent at times, she traveled in parts unknown, she was used to deep cover operations (Tuvok and the Maquis) and she was as sneaky all hell, to use a phrase she would probably employ herself.
She was determined, to the point of ruthlessness at times, she would bend the rules as far as she could, and was a highly competent captain, diplomat, and scientist. She used covert operations, and gathered together a crew which was part Maquis and made them work together with Starfleet despite the differences.
She was brilliant, lovable and highly competent, and managed achieve things most captains would have failed at at the first hurdle.
She would have been a perfect Section 31 agent, so long as she thought she was doing the right thing.
What always frustrated me about Janeway was that her definition of the right thing varied based on what would wrap up the episode. Being Section 31, cherry picking and rationalizing each decision without regard to consistency would account for that. I think we're onto something, folks!
Lost in all this discussion about the validity of various Janeways having the Section 31 trait is the fact that we have no proof that Janeway wasn't Section 31 the whole time.
:: shrugs ::
I’d rather have Valeris, Cartwright, and (eventually) West gain the section 31 trait, than have Katrine hold onto it.
2 greens, 1 blue, 4 purples, 2 gold - seems a bit on the mean side to me.
1. That's galaxy, not faction
2. Plenty of people would have Mirror Tucker so that's Sec and Eng covered. If it's Sec and Eng heavy nothing more is needed really.
3. If Anij is threshold and covers other two stats... well that's pretty much it even without Mirror Tucker.
But, yeah, kinda on low side. Especially Med and Sci.
Comments
🤦♂️SHE HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH SECTION 31!!!!
Proud member of Patterns of Force
Captain Level 99
Played since January 2017
TP: Do better!!!
I hope you realize that the Wiki is not official. Those are the only places in the show where we see the characters dressed like that, yet the traits, skills, and/or art are not entirely consistent with the source material. And they need those items because they are part of the costume, the same reason why Gangster Kirk and Spock need Tommy Guns or Bajoran Dukat needs Bajoran Earrings.
Also, Agent Janeway's wiki page was changed to say "non-canon."
If anything, I would argue that characters like Agent Janeway and Combat Medic Paris that aren't the exact versions seen in the show, but aren't completely made up like Augment Picard or Mirror Janeway, could be called quasi-canon, semi-canon, the margarine of canon, the Diet Coke of canon. Just 1 calorie, not canon enough!
Nothing except for having the trait and working for them in the event she was created for. Sort of like how Aviator Yar has nothing to do with being a Pilot.
So, I guess I should request for DB to add Bobby Davis and French Resistance Katrine then?
Proud member of Patterns of Force
Captain Level 99
Played since January 2017
TP: Do better!!!
He's more like eng/sci/cmd really.
Check out our website to find out more:
https://wiki.tenforwardloungers.com/
Agent Janeway is bonus crew because she has the Section 31 trait. Arguing about her is somewhat relevant to the topic of the thread.
Arguing about Eyepatch Janeway, however, is not.
Finally, someone has introduced a new subtext to read into VOY that might make it interesting for me. I mean, not enough that I'm gonna slog back through it, but someone should and report back.
Seven almost discovered her that time she downloaded all those logs directly in to her systems, but Janeway covered her tracks nicely. Sneaky, that one.
Ezri Dax: Oh, how to keep from breaking into tears for no reason...
BTW I changed wiki info for Agent Janeway, so it should be clear now.
My Cryostasis Vault
Quark isn't canon? I was certain he was.
Captain of the voyage vessels: Queen of Bashir, Landsknecht, and Sunspear, the first luxury starship cruiseliners.
Amenities include wifi, fully-functioning holodecks, a full-service bar, 3 party decks, a Trill spa, and a business centre.
Fun fact: The ships are propelled by bouncy castle technology.
Convergence Day Quark, where he is celebrating the temporal anomaly crisis? How on earth could he be canon?
Ezri Dax: Oh, how to keep from breaking into tears for no reason...
Thanks for the recap, Travis. That brought back some memories. Unnecessary comment removed. ˜Shan
Ooh. I just started a VOY rewatch this weekend. This could be interesting to watch for.
Problem 1: Section 31 Janeway would never strand VOY for the sake of protecting the Ocampa. She would steal whatever technology she could from The Array and then return home with it to give the Federation a technological advantage.
That's what we call deep cover. The woman is committed.
We saw future Janeway had access to time travel. Maybe the finale wasn't the first time she used it. If you had a "guarantee" from your future self that you'll make it home, maybe her orders were to acquire as much Delta Quadrant tech as possible.
Why's it always about the tech? Section 31 wasn't the Borg, lol. They also were into political and other manipulations. Maybe Section 31 wanted make sure there wasn't another Dominion out there, or to destabilize the Borg, Kazon and other forces that might threaten the Federation someday.
I mentioned tech in response to his post, but if we're talking about sec31's role to protect The Federation vis-a-vis the Delta Quadrant, it seems to me that acquiring superior technology and crippling the Borg would be pretty strong means to that end.
I agree that would be an interesting thought to entertain while re-watching the series, but as a standalone point, it would take way too long to thoroughly unpack the possibilities.
Section 31 played the long game. Why stop at stealing tech from the Array? Maybe they were looking for another super power to ally themselves with, or protect themselves against. Or they were looking to gain more intel on the Borg/
Maybe, the plan was for Janeway to strand the crew in the Delta quadrant, which would give her crew (and Starfleet) extra motivation to establish communication/transport to and from the Delta Quadrant, thereby expanding Section 31's reach, as well as their knowledge. Stealing stuff from the Array is a one-time deal, but establishing a connection to the Delta Quadrant? That opens up possibilities.
Cardassian wishlist:
Tora Ziyal - Thanks!
Natima Lang
Empok Nor Garak
Tekeny Ghemor
Mira
Makbar
Dejar
Ulani Belor
In one novel I believe that is discussed.....
I'll admit that The Omega Directive and The Voyager Conspiracy during my most recent watchthrough nspired this train of thought.
She was determined, to the point of ruthlessness at times, she would bend the rules as far as she could, and was a highly competent captain, diplomat, and scientist. She used covert operations, and gathered together a crew which was part Maquis and made them work together with Starfleet despite the differences.
She was brilliant, lovable and highly competent, and managed achieve things most captains would have failed at at the first hurdle.
She would have been a perfect Section 31 agent, so long as she thought she was doing the right thing.
Check out our website to find out more:
https://wiki.tenforwardloungers.com/
So that they can take the trait off her when no one at DB can remember why she has it.
Yea. If I remember correctly, Frakes directed that one...
He also directed First Contact.
What always frustrated me about Janeway was that her definition of the right thing varied based on what would wrap up the episode. Being Section 31, cherry picking and rationalizing each decision without regard to consistency would account for that. I think we're onto something, folks!
:: shrugs ::
I’d rather have Valeris, Cartwright, and (eventually) West gain the section 31 trait, than have Katrine hold onto it.
My two sense.
Task Force Pike/Garrett's Giants, Founder
Task Force April, Fleet Founder Emeritus
Newfie Central, Squad Founder, In Memoriam
2 greens, 1 blue, 4 purples, 2 gold - seems a bit on the mean side to me.
2. Plenty of people would have Mirror Tucker so that's Sec and Eng covered. If it's Sec and Eng heavy nothing more is needed really.
3. If Anij is threshold and covers other two stats... well that's pretty much it even without Mirror Tucker.
But, yeah, kinda on low side. Especially Med and Sci.