For the apologists out there....we wanted to know how they we're resolving the different scenarios of "repossessing the ill gotten gains". Something along the lines of...1-Dil in the player's inventory has been confiscated. 2-Dil received due to VIP bonuses is taken back. 3-vip levels gained have been rolled back. 4-crew purchased with Dil from the big have been removed. 5-honor gained from airlock said crew has been removed. 6-Purchases from honor Hall as a result are removed. 7-Any Speed ups done are undone. 8-starbase speedups from Dil gained from the bug are rolled back. 9-## stuff I haven't thought of while typing this.
Finally their assurance that this has been done for 100% of the people involved. And I'm STILL taking their word for it.
How can you possibly expect things like speedups to be removed? What about gauntlet refreshes? You can't undo some of this, it's ridiculous.
Then their proposed solution isn't acceptable. That's the whole point.
Sometimes you can't undo damage that's been done, it's just not possible to reverse it. In which case you say, sorry we made a huge mistake and we fixed what we could but we can't undo everything and you have to live with that.
Be realistic.
I see...your suggestion is I make every concession and just accept whatever happens. Hard pass.
For the apologists out there....we wanted to know how they we're resolving the different scenarios of "repossessing the ill gotten gains". Something along the lines of...1-Dil in the player's inventory has been confiscated. 2-Dil received due to VIP bonuses is taken back. 3-vip levels gained have been rolled back. 4-crew purchased with Dil from the big have been removed. 5-honor gained from airlock said crew has been removed. 6-Purchases from honor Hall as a result are removed. 7-Any Speed ups done are undone. 8-starbase speedups from Dil gained from the bug are rolled back. 9-## stuff I haven't thought of while typing this.
Finally their assurance that this has been done for 100% of the people involved. And I'm STILL taking their word for it.
How can you possibly expect things like speedups to be removed? What about gauntlet refreshes? You can't undo some of this, it's ridiculous.
Then their proposed solution isn't acceptable. That's the whole point.
Sometimes you can't undo damage that's been done, it's just not possible to reverse it. In which case you say, sorry we made a huge mistake and we fixed what we could but we can't undo everything and you have to live with that.
Be realistic.
I see...your suggestion is I make every concession and just accept whatever happens. Hard pass.
I agree with KISD (hope you don't mind if i call you that) certain individuals shouldn't get away with getting 100s of 1,000s of dollars in dil for free, but it is also true that db shouldn't just give everyone 1,000,000 dilithium crystals for free, i do want them to stay in business after all.
How about DB put that original pack blunder back up. Everybody cashes in, then they can incorporate an investment system for those that trust Ferengi business people.
It was a bug and db stopped the bug. Not sure why people are so upset. Yes some took advantage of the bug, most of us did not. Mostly it was just whales that bought the packs as they buy all packs. So they have more dilithium, they always have more dilithium. Those whales that took advantage of the bug were foolish to do so. In other games I have played any known bug that is used to get free currency or any other free thing in a game can be immediate grounds for the company to ban that player and his/her accounts permanently. Free dilithium does you no good in a banned account.
In game communication says we can keep the DIL from the first pack, everything else will be undone
All other players get a free pack then?
No, they're showing the looong nose.
Why should I get a free pack? Or free anything for that matter? What matters to me is everything gained by those players from this be taken away. BEFORE the event starts. Y’all KNOW you were dishonest by getting it and spending it. Effin crumb snatchers
A lot of the people who got the thousands of free dilithium already laundered it into things surely DB could never realistically roll back though. So I’m not sure how they expect to “correct” that.
It was a bug and db stopped the bug. Not sure why people are so upset. Yes some took advantage of the bug, most of us did not. Mostly it was just whales that bought the packs as they buy all packs. So they have more dilithium, they always have more dilithium. Those whales that took advantage of the bug were foolish to do so. In other games I have played any known bug that is used to get free currency or any other free thing in a game can be immediate grounds for the company to ban that player and his/her accounts permanently. Free dilithium does you no good in a banned account.
I know that lots of non-whales rinsed it too. It only takes one player in an active fleet to buy the pack and send up the bat signal in whatever chat software that fleet is using. We’re talking non-whales grabbing 100+ or even 200+ packs, VIP12 to VIP14 x4 levels of hammering it.
A lot of the people who got the thousands of free dilithium already laundered it into things surely DB could never realistically roll back though. So I’m not sure how they expect to “correct” that.
Shouldn't that justify bans then? They knew they were exploiting the game.
So, my issue isn't in the "free stuff" and who got what versus who didn't. I have accepted the blunt force trauma of DB's RNG, a long time ago and, to me, this is an extension of that bad luck.
What irritates me and what jumps off the page as unacceptable is the fact that we can get ZERO transparency to determine the scope of this issue. I can't make an informed decision about whether or not and to what extent to continue without some basic information. What we've gotten so far is, "...it's a handful of players...." and, "...we've got this...take our word for it..." Really?
Now, the apologists love saying, "...what can you do with that information?...." and, "....they can't give that sort of thing out, it's proprietary..." or, "...how could they give that out?" All I want is a treetop level of information - did this affect 5% of the players.....20%? Do you see how easy that would be? In the end, DB could lie to me about that percentage and I still wouldn't know but, THAT's what is so frustrating. They don't respect us enough to even fake it. We can't get so much as a courtesy lie. Hell, all of corporate America does it all the time and we can't verify any of that information. Does GM really only have 300K cars that need a recall? Does United Healthcare really have 22 M insured members? Hell, I don't know. BUT, they keep up pretenses out of respect, if nothing else.
What the rest of SUCCESSFUL businesses do....rather, what they don't do, is to say, "...we will say nothing, we will share nothing, shut your mouths, and open your wallets.....good day to you."
Now, the apologists love saying, "...what can you do with that information?...."
I know this is referring to me, so let me clarify that I am not very pleased with this entire situation and have wondered if this (on top of a lot of other things lately) is finally what's going to close my wallet. I was literally asking you what you would do with the information you are asking for so I could determine if it was information that would help me make that decision. So far, you've given me no reason to think this information would be helpful to me in any way.
Now, the apologists love saying, "...what can you do with that information?...."
I know this is referring to me, so let me clarify that I am not very pleased with this entire situation and have wondered if this (on top of a lot of other things lately) is finally what's going to close my wallet. I was literally asking you what you would do with the information you are asking for so I could determine if it was information that would help me make that decision. So far, you've given me no reason to think this information would be helpful to me in any way.
You don't think it would be useful to know whether not it was 1% versus 35% of the player base that have additional resources? That gives you a good estimation of the degree of dilution. It's tantamount to being a shareholder of a corporation. The value of your shares is relative to how many exist, among other things. If only 2% of the player base have ill gotten resources, I can stomach that. If, however, it's 29%, that's too much dilution to the overall game economy.
Truly - I wasn't taking a shot at anyone. I'm just saying that company transparency, during obvious screw ups is the rule, not the exception. Car manufacturers share info around defects....healthcare companies share specifics around data breaches....etc. To me, you OWE it to the people who keep your corporate lights turned on, without them having to beg for it. I'm not asking for any personal information of any player....just redacted, raw percentages.
What should be troubling to us all, whether you could make use of that data or not, is why they are so resistant - and rudely dismissive - to providing it.
A lot of the people who got the thousands of free dilithium already laundered it into things surely DB could never realistically roll back though. So I’m not sure how they expect to “correct” that.
Shouldn't that justify bans then? They knew they were exploiting the game.
Taking advantage of an error is very different from exploiting a bug. And while DB very well could ban people, for any reason, banning someone for purchasing something DB put in the shop for anyone to buy freely would not sit well with Apple and Google Play's policies. Basically DB would be buying those players out of the lifetime of their accounts, not simply banning. DB's standing policy of not reversing the contents of packs in players favor would further support this. It's just not that simple.
Now, the apologists love saying, "...what can you do with that information?...."
Car manufacturers share info around defects....healthcare companies share specifics around data breaches....etc.
I'm not sure why you seem to be confident in that.
I'm not, but they provide data nonetheless. That's the point - show some regard for our right to know what goes on, when you (DB) screw up. I said in my post that we'll always have to take the word of whomever provides that sort of data, but don't confuse that with the point about the data being provided at all.
I don’t think anyone should be banned. It’s not the players’ faults for the error. I don’t begrudge them taking advantage of it one bit.
I do think DB should correct the error to bring everyone back to where they were. But a lot of people spent the dilithium and put it into things like extra stars for their characters, extra crew slots, shuttle boosts, etc. Things that you would think would be incredibly difficult, if not impossible, for DB to realistically reverse because of how deep it goes.
And if they can’t reverse everything, then there should be something done to make everyone else on an even playing field. If it really is a small number of players affected, then I can more easily believe they can reverse everything. But if it’s not a small number, and they can’t reverse everything then the game is changed forever. And they should do something to make everyone on an equal playing field again.
So, basically it is like this:
Everyone who was using this bug is rewarded with 6850 dilithium. DB lets him keep 350 from the bugged dilithium AND the 6500 special pack itself! (o_O)
What are you talking about? The pack cost 650, and they didn't get anything from the pack except 1000 dilithium and VIP.
I'm not, but they provide data nonetheless. That's the point - show some regard for our right to know what goes on, when you (DB) screw up. I said in my post that we'll always have to take the word of whomever provides that sort of data, but don't confuse that with the point about the data being provided at all.
These companies are required by law to share certain data, and sometimes they don't even do that if they can get away with it. That doesn't excuse DB or any communication issues they may have, but to make it out like DB is some outlier is disingenuous. What is the point if you aren't going to believe the data anyway? I doubt anything they could come up with would appease everyone, and I always approach corporate communication with a healthy dose of skepticism.
I wish I had pulled dilithium from the pack yesterday. I feel a bit let down that some people are benefiting to some unknown extent from exploiting a bug, but I can't act like I wouldn't have tried to do the same given the opportunity. I don't know to what extent it could have an effect on the game, and I think I'm going to be rather cautious with any spending I do until I see how things go in the near future.
So, basically it is like this:
Everyone who was using this bug is rewarded with 6850 dilithium. DB lets him keep 350 from the bugged dilithium AND the 6500 special pack itself! (o_O)
This is far from fair actually. Either give the dilithium and special pack to everyone and not just the ones who used the bug, or give it no no one! Cause, honestly... why would someone ever reward people for exploiting a bug, which is against the TOS?
Where does it say purchasing a pack multiple times is against the TOS? If people had done a string of events similar to the $5 DYC DBacle, then yes it would be exploiting. Buying a freely available pack in the shop is not exploiting. Regardless of DBs policies, their payment processors say the burden is on them for this kind of thing, and their emails reaffirming the event as "purchases" actually hurt them with their efforts to correct the issue, as now they are revoking purchases without refund, which will not sit well with their payment processors. This could actually make things worse, as they are technically due refunds, so the 650 spent on each pack, instead of the 550 from net with VIP Dilithium.
When this error goes live, and someone discovers or is told about it, 5-10 minutes in they are presented with a number of options if they stop and think about it:
1) DB can't let this stand, they are going to roll back the servers, doesn't matter if I do or not.
2) Other people are doing this, if I don't and DB can't fix it, I'm at a disadvantage.
3) DB could over react and punish people for making legit purchases, and trigger Apple/Google refund policies.
4) They might compensate everyone who doesn't do this to make it right, so it's a gamble as to whether its better to do it or not.
With those options, what would you do?
This is completely on DB, players who found out about it were faced with the choice of do it or risk falling behind.
We have asked for a better QA environment for two years. We have complained about blatant copy paste errors for two years. The errors were finally in the players favor and now DB might actually do something about it.
If I were DB, I think the best answer is to make it right with everyone else, and not risk outside implications and issues.
Take the excess dilithium. People can't roll forward with 100k+ extra dilithium, this does need to happen.
Everyone gets 50k VIP points. Everyone gets the VIP 14 benefits. DB can rework the VIP system and finally introduce VIP 15 with new benefits to reward future spending. (yes, this will require innovation by DB for them to recover) and the proudly VIP 0 can still measure their VIP metric.
Everyone gets max crew slots. Yeah it needs to happen. They can offset this with new "premium" bridge crew slots that boost stats or whatever, if there really is a database issue, it's time to fix it finally.
Everyone gets some free 5/5s. The main rewards people seemed to get were the available limited packs. Jake, Shurak, Neelix, Uhura, and Chekov should be rewarded in full 5/5 form to everyone who didn't get a shot at the error.
50 10x premium pulls for those who didn't partake. Gotta make up for the other premiums.
2x Legendary Citations Same as above.
50x shuttle boost packs. Ditto.
5k Chronos. Ditto
This is an absolute ton of stuff, and would require some innovation from DB to recover on the VIP and Crew Slot fronts, but I think it's enough to make it fair. They can't leave the dilithium in the market, but they have opened so many CS and Payment processor cans of worms, as well as the possibility of not dealing with the issue equally if someone "laundered" their winnings better than others.
This is 100% on DB, and to actually make it right is going to take a huge mea culpa. Any half measures are going to piss one side or the other off and cause further issues.
Also, everyone take a HUGE deep breath and remember how messed up this situation is for Shan as well in the way we talk to her specifically.
Shan is remote and not even in the same building, she doesn't make these level of decisions, she doesn't make any calls on production, design, or QA. She is the PR face of the company on many platforms, none of this is her fault, and she is doing everything she can.
So, basically it is like this:
Everyone who was using this bug is rewarded with 6850 dilithium. DB lets him keep 350 from the bugged dilithium AND the 6500 special pack itself! (o_O)
What are you talking about? The pack cost 650, and they didn't get anything from the pack except 1000 dilithium and VIP.
I'm not, but they provide data nonetheless. That's the point - show some regard for our right to know what goes on, when you (DB) screw up. I said in my post that we'll always have to take the word of whomever provides that sort of data, but don't confuse that with the point about the data being provided at all.
... but to make it out like DB is some outlier is disingenuous. What is the point if you aren't going to believe the data anyway?
And apologists going to do what apologists do.
You can spin this anyway you like - at the end of the day, DB has a track record in this respect, unrivaled by any company that I have ever done business with. That translates into very little tolerance, I'm afraid. On that note, I'll leave it with what should, by now, be our collective battlecry:
So, basically it is like this:
Everyone who was using this bug is rewarded with 6850 dilithium. DB lets him keep 350 from the bugged dilithium AND the 6500 special pack itself! (o_O)
What are you talking about? The pack cost 650, and they didn't get anything from the pack except 1000 dilithium and VIP.
I'm not, but they provide data nonetheless. That's the point - show some regard for our right to know what goes on, when you (DB) screw up. I said in my post that we'll always have to take the word of whomever provides that sort of data, but don't confuse that with the point about the data being provided at all.
... but to make it out like DB is some outlier is disingenuous. What is the point if you aren't going to believe the data anyway?
And apologists going to do what apologists do.
You can spin this anyway you like - at the end of the day, DB has a track record in this respect, unrivaled by any company that I have ever done business with. That translates into very little tolerance, I'm afraid. On that note, I'll leave it with what should, by now, be our collective battlecry:
DB = DO BETTER!
Take a breath, it's a common practice not to release this kind of data. If DB can 100% correct as they claim to be attempting, they would in no way owe it either. Yes it would be nice to know, but it is not owed.
so , genuine question here. make an honest attempt to answer this w/o re-hashing all the "reasons" why from earlier in this thread, because none of those sufficiently answer this question.
Why do you feel you're entitled to any more information than what DB has given you thus far?
So, basically it is like this:
Everyone who was using this bug is rewarded with 6850 dilithium. DB lets him keep 350 from the bugged dilithium AND the 6500 special pack itself! (o_O)
What are you talking about? The pack cost 650, and they didn't get anything from the pack except 1000 dilithium and VIP.
I'm not, but they provide data nonetheless. That's the point - show some regard for our right to know what goes on, when you (DB) screw up. I said in my post that we'll always have to take the word of whomever provides that sort of data, but don't confuse that with the point about the data being provided at all.
... but to make it out like DB is some outlier is disingenuous. What is the point if you aren't going to believe the data anyway?
And apologists going to do what apologists do.
You can spin this anyway you like - at the end of the day, DB has a track record in this respect, unrivaled by any company that I have ever done business with. That translates into very little tolerance, I'm afraid. On that note, I'll leave it with what should, by now, be our collective battlecry:
DB = DO BETTER!
Take a breath, it's a common practice not to release this kind of data. If DB can 100% correct as they claim to be attempting, they would in no way owe it either. Yes it would be nice to know, but it is not owed.
Point of order - you may not want to know more or care, but you certainly don't speak for me (clearly). I've spent enough money with DB (as have several of us) to finance Shan's car, so....yeah...they kind of do owe a better explanation and purported fix than they've offered.
Lest we forget how many times they've gone down a road like this (glaring error and botched reaction). I've been sitting shotgun, watching this madness for +2 years. That said, if you don't demand better, you won't get better.
For whomever chooses this passive, path of least resistance....say nothing in here the next time the wheels come off...and the next....and the next....and the one to follow that.
So, basically it is like this:
Everyone who was using this bug is rewarded with 6850 dilithium. DB lets him keep 350 from the bugged dilithium AND the 6500 special pack itself! (o_O)
What are you talking about? The pack cost 650, and they didn't get anything from the pack except 1000 dilithium and VIP.
I'm not, but they provide data nonetheless. That's the point - show some regard for our right to know what goes on, when you (DB) screw up. I said in my post that we'll always have to take the word of whomever provides that sort of data, but don't confuse that with the point about the data being provided at all.
... but to make it out like DB is some outlier is disingenuous. What is the point if you aren't going to believe the data anyway?
And apologists going to do what apologists do.
You can spin this anyway you like - at the end of the day, DB has a track record in this respect, unrivaled by any company that I have ever done business with. That translates into very little tolerance, I'm afraid. On that note, I'll leave it with what should, by now, be our collective battlecry:
DB = DO BETTER!
Take a breath, it's a common practice not to release this kind of data. If DB can 100% correct as they claim to be attempting, they would in no way owe it either. Yes it would be nice to know, but it is not owed.
Point of order - you may not want to know more or care, but you certainly don't speak for me (clearly). I've spent enough money with DB (as have several of us) to finance Shan's car, so....yeah...they kind of do owe a better explanation and purported fix than they've offered.
Lest we forget how many times they've gone down a road like this (glaring error and botched reaction). I've been sitting shotgun, watching this madness for +2 years. That said, if you don't demand better, you won't get better.
For whomever chooses this passive, path of least resistance....say nothing in here the next time the wheels come off...and the next....and the next....and the one to follow that.
I would love to know more, I just know it's not a reasonable expectation for DB to release proprietary data. I'm by no means a DB apologist, the focus should be on what they do to make it right, not data that's consequence only matters if they don't do a proper job fixing it.
Make sure to find a comfortable spot on the wall before you continue to bang your head against it.
So, basically it is like this:
Everyone who was using this bug is rewarded with 6850 dilithium. DB lets him keep 350 from the bugged dilithium AND the 6500 special pack itself! (o_O)
What are you talking about? The pack cost 650, and they didn't get anything from the pack except 1000 dilithium and VIP.
I'm not, but they provide data nonetheless. That's the point - show some regard for our right to know what goes on, when you (DB) screw up. I said in my post that we'll always have to take the word of whomever provides that sort of data, but don't confuse that with the point about the data being provided at all.
... but to make it out like DB is some outlier is disingenuous. What is the point if you aren't going to believe the data anyway?
And apologists going to do what apologists do.
You can spin this anyway you like - at the end of the day, DB has a track record in this respect, unrivaled by any company that I have ever done business with. That translates into very little tolerance, I'm afraid. On that note, I'll leave it with what should, by now, be our collective battlecry:
DB = DO BETTER!
Take a breath, it's a common practice not to release this kind of data. If DB can 100% correct as they claim to be attempting, they would in no way owe it either. Yes it would be nice to know, but it is not owed.
Point of order - you may not want to know more or care, but you certainly don't speak for me (clearly). I've spent enough money with DB (as have several of us) to finance Shan's car, so....yeah...they kind of do owe a better explanation and purported fix than they've offered.
Lest we forget how many times they've gone down a road like this (glaring error and botched reaction). I've been sitting shotgun, watching this madness for +2 years. That said, if you don't demand better, you won't get better.
For whomever chooses this passive, path of least resistance....say nothing in here the next time the wheels come off...and the next....and the next....and the one to follow that.
I would love to know more, I just know it's not a reasonable expectation for DB to release proprietary data. I'm by no means a DB apologist, the focus should be on what they do to make it right, not data that's consequence only matters if they don't do a proper job fixing it.
Make sure to find a comfortable spot on the wall before you continue to bang your head against it.
There's nothing proprietary about saying, "....18% of our players utilized the pack...". Easy ask with an easy answer.
As for the head banging, you may be right. I can agree with that, but since I have the investment that I do here to look after, a' banging I'll have to continue. 😂
So, basically it is like this:
Everyone who was using this bug is rewarded with 6850 dilithium. DB lets him keep 350 from the bugged dilithium AND the 6500 special pack itself! (o_O)
This is far from fair actually. Either give the dilithium and special pack to everyone and not just the ones who used the bug, or give it no no one! Cause, honestly... why would someone ever reward people for exploiting a bug, which is against the TOS?
Where does it say purchasing a pack multiple times is against the TOS? If people had done a string of events similar to the $5 DYC DBacle, then yes it would be exploiting. Buying a freely available pack in the shop is not exploiting...
From "Developing online games" by Jessica Mulligan & Bridgette Patrovsky:
"In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, speed or level design etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers."
Conclusion is pretty simple. Opening more than one such bugged portal can and should be considered as using an exploit.
So, basically it is like this:
Everyone who was using this bug is rewarded with 6850 dilithium. DB lets him keep 350 from the bugged dilithium AND the 6500 special pack itself! (o_O)
This is far from fair actually. Either give the dilithium and special pack to everyone and not just the ones who used the bug, or give it no no one! Cause, honestly... why would someone ever reward people for exploiting a bug, which is against the TOS?
Where does it say purchasing a pack multiple times is against the TOS? If people had done a string of events similar to the $5 DYC DBacle, then yes it would be exploiting. Buying a freely available pack in the shop is not exploiting...
From "Developing online games" by Jessica Mulligan & Bridgette Patrovsky:
"In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, speed or level design etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers."
Conclusion is pretty simple. Opening more than one such bugged portal can and should be considered as using an exploit.
And buying packs normally from the portal is none of that, your conclusion is tenuous at best. it's a pack content issue, not a buying mechanic issue. That is 100% on DB not the player.
Comments
I see...your suggestion is I make every concession and just accept whatever happens. Hard pass.
I agree with KISD (hope you don't mind if i call you that) certain individuals shouldn't get away with getting 100s of 1,000s of dollars in dil for free, but it is also true that db shouldn't just give everyone 1,000,000 dilithium crystals for free, i do want them to stay in business after all.
No, they're showing the looong nose.
Why should I get a free pack? Or free anything for that matter? What matters to me is everything gained by those players from this be taken away. BEFORE the event starts. Y’all KNOW you were dishonest by getting it and spending it. Effin crumb snatchers
I know that lots of non-whales rinsed it too. It only takes one player in an active fleet to buy the pack and send up the bat signal in whatever chat software that fleet is using. We’re talking non-whales grabbing 100+ or even 200+ packs, VIP12 to VIP14 x4 levels of hammering it.
Shouldn't that justify bans then? They knew they were exploiting the game.
What irritates me and what jumps off the page as unacceptable is the fact that we can get ZERO transparency to determine the scope of this issue. I can't make an informed decision about whether or not and to what extent to continue without some basic information. What we've gotten so far is, "...it's a handful of players...." and, "...we've got this...take our word for it..." Really?
Now, the apologists love saying, "...what can you do with that information?...." and, "....they can't give that sort of thing out, it's proprietary..." or, "...how could they give that out?" All I want is a treetop level of information - did this affect 5% of the players.....20%? Do you see how easy that would be? In the end, DB could lie to me about that percentage and I still wouldn't know but, THAT's what is so frustrating. They don't respect us enough to even fake it. We can't get so much as a courtesy lie. Hell, all of corporate America does it all the time and we can't verify any of that information. Does GM really only have 300K cars that need a recall? Does United Healthcare really have 22 M insured members? Hell, I don't know. BUT, they keep up pretenses out of respect, if nothing else.
What the rest of SUCCESSFUL businesses do....rather, what they don't do, is to say, "...we will say nothing, we will share nothing, shut your mouths, and open your wallets.....good day to you."
I know this is referring to me, so let me clarify that I am not very pleased with this entire situation and have wondered if this (on top of a lot of other things lately) is finally what's going to close my wallet. I was literally asking you what you would do with the information you are asking for so I could determine if it was information that would help me make that decision. So far, you've given me no reason to think this information would be helpful to me in any way.
You don't think it would be useful to know whether not it was 1% versus 35% of the player base that have additional resources? That gives you a good estimation of the degree of dilution. It's tantamount to being a shareholder of a corporation. The value of your shares is relative to how many exist, among other things. If only 2% of the player base have ill gotten resources, I can stomach that. If, however, it's 29%, that's too much dilution to the overall game economy.
Truly - I wasn't taking a shot at anyone. I'm just saying that company transparency, during obvious screw ups is the rule, not the exception. Car manufacturers share info around defects....healthcare companies share specifics around data breaches....etc. To me, you OWE it to the people who keep your corporate lights turned on, without them having to beg for it. I'm not asking for any personal information of any player....just redacted, raw percentages.
What should be troubling to us all, whether you could make use of that data or not, is why they are so resistant - and rudely dismissive - to providing it.
Taking advantage of an error is very different from exploiting a bug. And while DB very well could ban people, for any reason, banning someone for purchasing something DB put in the shop for anyone to buy freely would not sit well with Apple and Google Play's policies. Basically DB would be buying those players out of the lifetime of their accounts, not simply banning. DB's standing policy of not reversing the contents of packs in players favor would further support this. It's just not that simple.
I'm not sure why you seem to be confident in that.
Squadron Leader - [TFA] Bateson’s Bulldogs
I'm not, but they provide data nonetheless. That's the point - show some regard for our right to know what goes on, when you (DB) screw up. I said in my post that we'll always have to take the word of whomever provides that sort of data, but don't confuse that with the point about the data being provided at all.
I do think DB should correct the error to bring everyone back to where they were. But a lot of people spent the dilithium and put it into things like extra stars for their characters, extra crew slots, shuttle boosts, etc. Things that you would think would be incredibly difficult, if not impossible, for DB to realistically reverse because of how deep it goes.
And if they can’t reverse everything, then there should be something done to make everyone else on an even playing field. If it really is a small number of players affected, then I can more easily believe they can reverse everything. But if it’s not a small number, and they can’t reverse everything then the game is changed forever. And they should do something to make everyone on an equal playing field again.
What are you talking about? The pack cost 650, and they didn't get anything from the pack except 1000 dilithium and VIP.
These companies are required by law to share certain data, and sometimes they don't even do that if they can get away with it. That doesn't excuse DB or any communication issues they may have, but to make it out like DB is some outlier is disingenuous. What is the point if you aren't going to believe the data anyway? I doubt anything they could come up with would appease everyone, and I always approach corporate communication with a healthy dose of skepticism.
I wish I had pulled dilithium from the pack yesterday. I feel a bit let down that some people are benefiting to some unknown extent from exploiting a bug, but I can't act like I wouldn't have tried to do the same given the opportunity. I don't know to what extent it could have an effect on the game, and I think I'm going to be rather cautious with any spending I do until I see how things go in the near future.
Where does it say purchasing a pack multiple times is against the TOS? If people had done a string of events similar to the $5 DYC DBacle, then yes it would be exploiting. Buying a freely available pack in the shop is not exploiting. Regardless of DBs policies, their payment processors say the burden is on them for this kind of thing, and their emails reaffirming the event as "purchases" actually hurt them with their efforts to correct the issue, as now they are revoking purchases without refund, which will not sit well with their payment processors. This could actually make things worse, as they are technically due refunds, so the 650 spent on each pack, instead of the 550 from net with VIP Dilithium.
When this error goes live, and someone discovers or is told about it, 5-10 minutes in they are presented with a number of options if they stop and think about it:
1) DB can't let this stand, they are going to roll back the servers, doesn't matter if I do or not.
2) Other people are doing this, if I don't and DB can't fix it, I'm at a disadvantage.
3) DB could over react and punish people for making legit purchases, and trigger Apple/Google refund policies.
4) They might compensate everyone who doesn't do this to make it right, so it's a gamble as to whether its better to do it or not.
With those options, what would you do?
This is completely on DB, players who found out about it were faced with the choice of do it or risk falling behind.
We have asked for a better QA environment for two years. We have complained about blatant copy paste errors for two years. The errors were finally in the players favor and now DB might actually do something about it.
If I were DB, I think the best answer is to make it right with everyone else, and not risk outside implications and issues.
Take the excess dilithium. People can't roll forward with 100k+ extra dilithium, this does need to happen.
Everyone gets 50k VIP points. Everyone gets the VIP 14 benefits. DB can rework the VIP system and finally introduce VIP 15 with new benefits to reward future spending. (yes, this will require innovation by DB for them to recover) and the proudly VIP 0 can still measure their VIP metric.
Everyone gets max crew slots. Yeah it needs to happen. They can offset this with new "premium" bridge crew slots that boost stats or whatever, if there really is a database issue, it's time to fix it finally.
Everyone gets some free 5/5s. The main rewards people seemed to get were the available limited packs. Jake, Shurak, Neelix, Uhura, and Chekov should be rewarded in full 5/5 form to everyone who didn't get a shot at the error.
50 10x premium pulls for those who didn't partake. Gotta make up for the other premiums.
2x Legendary Citations Same as above.
50x shuttle boost packs. Ditto.
5k Chronos. Ditto
This is an absolute ton of stuff, and would require some innovation from DB to recover on the VIP and Crew Slot fronts, but I think it's enough to make it fair. They can't leave the dilithium in the market, but they have opened so many CS and Payment processor cans of worms, as well as the possibility of not dealing with the issue equally if someone "laundered" their winnings better than others.
This is 100% on DB, and to actually make it right is going to take a huge mea culpa. Any half measures are going to piss one side or the other off and cause further issues.
Also, everyone take a HUGE deep breath and remember how messed up this situation is for Shan as well in the way we talk to her specifically.
Shan is remote and not even in the same building, she doesn't make these level of decisions, she doesn't make any calls on production, design, or QA. She is the PR face of the company on many platforms, none of this is her fault, and she is doing everything she can.
It's not as if our need decreases permanently.
It will only create good will and/or decrease negative feelings of having been cheated.
And apologists going to do what apologists do.
You can spin this anyway you like - at the end of the day, DB has a track record in this respect, unrivaled by any company that I have ever done business with. That translates into very little tolerance, I'm afraid. On that note, I'll leave it with what should, by now, be our collective battlecry:
DB = DO BETTER!
Take a breath, it's a common practice not to release this kind of data. If DB can 100% correct as they claim to be attempting, they would in no way owe it either. Yes it would be nice to know, but it is not owed.
Why do you feel you're entitled to any more information than what DB has given you thus far?
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Point of order - you may not want to know more or care, but you certainly don't speak for me (clearly). I've spent enough money with DB (as have several of us) to finance Shan's car, so....yeah...they kind of do owe a better explanation and purported fix than they've offered.
Lest we forget how many times they've gone down a road like this (glaring error and botched reaction). I've been sitting shotgun, watching this madness for +2 years. That said, if you don't demand better, you won't get better.
For whomever chooses this passive, path of least resistance....say nothing in here the next time the wheels come off...and the next....and the next....and the one to follow that.
I would love to know more, I just know it's not a reasonable expectation for DB to release proprietary data. I'm by no means a DB apologist, the focus should be on what they do to make it right, not data that's consequence only matters if they don't do a proper job fixing it.
Make sure to find a comfortable spot on the wall before you continue to bang your head against it.
There's nothing proprietary about saying, "....18% of our players utilized the pack...". Easy ask with an easy answer.
As for the head banging, you may be right. I can agree with that, but since I have the investment that I do here to look after, a' banging I'll have to continue. 😂
From "Developing online games" by Jessica Mulligan & Bridgette Patrovsky:
"In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, speed or level design etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers."
Conclusion is pretty simple. Opening more than one such bugged portal can and should be considered as using an exploit.
And buying packs normally from the portal is none of that, your conclusion is tenuous at best. it's a pack content issue, not a buying mechanic issue. That is 100% on DB not the player.