What do you all thinking about that:
My guy, who used the bug 26 times, now has his former dili amount +350.
And he got an extra compensation for the bug: he got 500 chrons and nine 4* (some random and 2 of the new Yates) + one 5* (resistance Neelix) crew on top too the 350 dili he already got...
That's absolutely unfair for all the other people.
Everyone should get this compensation. And than this problem is finished.
I think that DB has said they aren’t done yet and that it will take days for them to claw everything back so it’s too early to say what your guy gets to keep or not keep. Unless you’re saying DB has communicated directly with him and said they’re done messing with his account.
Re: how this will be solved, I think it's too early for us as players to speculate.
I don't know what kind of powers they're willing to use to "fix" this mess.
I do know that legally, they're going to be in a weird spot.
Because legally, this might not be viewed as exploiting a bug. This can be viewed as players purchasing a pack in the time portal, using legitimately purchased currency, and having the contents taken away.
Couldn’t they get in trouble because they didn’t post the odds of getting 1000 dilithium as 100%?
Re: how this will be solved, I think it's too early for us as players to speculate.
I don't know what kind of powers they're willing to use to "fix" this mess.
I do know that legally, they're going to be in a weird spot.
Because legally, this might not be viewed as exploiting a bug. This can be viewed as players purchasing a pack in the time portal, using legitimately purchased currency, and having the contents taken away.
Most territories protect companies from honouring obviously incorrect offers and pricing, certainly the EU does.
Without checking, I'm fairly sure we don't actually own content we purchase here, only lease it anyway, and the ToS that almost none of us read probably give a lot of latitude to unilateral changes to that lease by DB.
The point for me is, some players did not know about the bug, and were not in a position to buy a pack. Some players bought a pack and received an extra 350 dil, an unfair advantage through no fault of their own..
Some players attempted to exploit the bug. Some players allegedly received over 100,000 dil whilst that pack was available. That was opening 300 packs in about 15 minutes, possible when adrenaline is running, or they have software automation.
Those players that exploited the situation are still rewarded with at least 350 dil, and according to a post above, they also might have extra crew. That is not fair on the player base who either could not, or chose not to exploit the bug.
Whilst DB have been messing around sorting out accounts that exploited the bug, they have not been developing the game or sorting out other bugs.
DB should at a minimum be putting the cheaters, the lucky ones, and the fair players on a level playing ground.
How is telling us what they did to fix the error "releasing proprietary data"? That excuse is a bunch of baloney. "We took back the Dil". Proprietary data? Get outta here. How is telling us how many players got the free Dil "releasing proprietary data" or "violating player's privacy"? It isn't, and you know it.
Transparency and fairness. Not sure why this is difficult.
Lol remember a few days ago about "hills to die on.." lol.. this is a good example
Shot gun !
-- Any other players get the sweet deal as described above ?
Getting characters and chronitons because you pulled the pack ?
At this point, it's just important for the player base to know and verify this is happening so we know how to react to db.
I don't begrudge you per say.. player gots to play lol.. but I think this being above board is the most important thing.
I can tell you for a fact that I didn’t receive anything extra from it. They pulled the extra dilithium from me and that was it. I hadn’t “laundered” any of it. I hadn’t spent even one penny of it. I let it sit knowing that they would be taking back and they did. I have no clue how someone got “extra compensation“
As for what DB “owes us”? They owe us a game to play. That’s it. We may like it, we may not. There may be bugs (well, there are definitely bugs LOL). We have the option of playing or not playing. Everyone makes their own choices. They don’t “owe” us any explanation at all. We may want an explanation but they don’t owe us an explanation.
What’s the difference if they are completely silent on the issue or they come out and say that there were 525 players that took advantage of the offer for 18.5 minutes? There is no way to know whether anything they tell us is accurate. We have to take their word on it no matter what. So again what’s the difference if they blow smoke at us in the form of some statistics that could very well be made up or if they’re just silent?
People quit playing mobile games all the time. No matter what the resolution is, in the end, this game will end and evaporate just like every other mobile game. They all have a lifespan and when that lifespan comes to an end none of the problems, issues etc. matter at all because it’s all just gone. Looking at it that way really put some perspective on it for me. It’s just a game and someday it will be gone.
Transparency and fairness. Not sure why this is difficult.
Lol remember a few days ago about "hills to die on.." lol.. this is a good example
Shot gun !
-- Any other players get the sweet deal as described above ?
Getting characters and chronitons because you pulled the pack ?
At this point, it's just important for the player base to know and verify this is happening so we know how to react to db.
I don't begrudge you per say.. player gots to play lol.. but I think this being above board is the most important thing.
I can tell you for a fact that I didn’t receive anything extra from it. They pulled the extra dilithium from me and that was it. I hadn’t “laundered” any of it. I hadn’t spent even one penny of it. I let it sit knowing that they would be taking back and they did. I have no clue how someone got “extra compensation“
As for what DB “owes us”? They owe us a game to play. That’s it. We may like it, we may not. There may be bugs (well, there are definitely bugs LOL). We have the option of playing or not playing. Everyone makes their own choices. They don’t “owe” us any explanation at all. We may want an explanation but they don’t owe us an explanation.
What’s the difference if they are completely silent on the issue or they come out and say that there were 525 players that took advantage of the offer for 18.5 minutes? There is no way to know whether anything they tell us is accurate. We have to take their word on it no matter what. So again what’s the difference if they blow smoke at us in the form of some statistics that could very well be made up or if they’re just silent?
People quit playing mobile games all the time. No matter what the resolution is, in the end, this game will end and evaporate just like every other mobile game. They all have a lifespan and when that lifespan comes to an end none of the problems, issues etc. matter at all because it’s all just gone. Looking at it that way really put some perspective on it for me. It’s just a game and someday it will be gone.
Until that day they need to be held accountable for what is going on in the game.
The 'is just a game' excuse can only go so far, especially when they are providing a service and charging people for it. This time was something that benefited players but is not always like this.
This way of thinking is what allowed the game industry deteriorate to the actual state and let companies like EA literally scam you to death.
A little quality and transparency is always desirable and needed.
This time was something that benefited players but is not always like this.
I totally disagree that this incident only benefitted players.
It has benefitted some, but it’s harmed everyone else by damaging the whole economy. Unless DB remove all the things anyone bought with the free dil. And I need some reassurances that this is going to happen.
If they are going to let people keep multiple immortalised legendary crew or hundreds of extra crew slots (to give just 2 examples) purchased using the giveaway dil, that’s severely reducing the value of all my purchases made over the last 2.5 years. This will vary from player to player, but 230,000 dil (if true) can buy an awful lot of stuff. It may well make £££ or ££££ purchase history completely worthless.
Does anyone know of a single other player who has received extra compensation for this bug?
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Not for nothing, but do we know if the 250 Cron email that got sent to some TWICE was ever corrected? Claw back on the second email? If not, just add that to the list of inequities here.
As a second aside, they absolutely "owe" us a far cry more than they've given on this fiasco. As a matter of law, there are inherent obligations of good faith and fair dealing, from a contractual perspective. Every single purchase one makes is a contract of buying and selling, pure and simple. They offer a product and we accept that offer by purchasing. At that moment, they absolutely owe us to ensure that we get what we pay for. In broad strokes, we all have paid for a fair, even opportunity, competitive environment. I ask you this: do we collectively believe that we've gotten that? (As rhetorical as it gets, ofc).
Don't view this through a myopic lense - the track record of band aid medicine style fixes and the illustrious DB history of epic fails, needs to be the backdrop of how we all evaluate this. History ain't on DB's side.
BTW: The Vegas books have weighed in on this issue. Odds follow...
DB manages to get it 'Right'... 1000;1
DB Screws the Pooch AGAIN ... Even Money
Db collapses under it's own hubris... 2:1
"Never teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig" Lazarus Long, Time Enough for Love, R.A. Heinlein
They've said they can't get back the extra 250 chronitons already. To be fair they've apologised about it and 250 chrons makes no real difference to anyone who's been playing more than a week.
I don't believe that I'm paying for "a fair, even opportunity, competitive environment." I believe I'm paying for a bunch of pixels that I don't even own. If you expect more than that from game developers you're setting yourself up for a lot of disappointments imo
Come join our fleet! We're a great social group that helps each other. You play the way you want to, participate as much as you want and if you want to be competitive, you can be! Check out our fleet ad:
I don't believe that I'm paying for "a fair, even opportunity, competitive environment." I believe I'm paying for a bunch of pixels that I don't even own. If you expect more than that from game developers you're setting yourself up for a lot of disappointments imo
Exactly. You are paying for whatever the text of the offer/deal/pack says you'll get, or have the chance to get. No more, no less. Each transaction is a new deal. No equality is implied or intended.
They offer a product and we accept that offer by purchasing. At that moment, they absolutely owe us to ensure that we get what we pay for. In broad strokes, we all have paid for a fair, even opportunity, competitive environment.
In this instance, we, or most of us, didn't pay for anything, so we are owed nothing. A gesture of goodwill would be appreciated and welcomed, but it is not required.
I hope there are some consequences for this. At minimum, this ought to demonstrate to DB that their QC practices are subpar, to say the least, and much more care needs to be taken to ensure they are producing and presenting a consistent, error-free product. A pack like that going live is really inexcusable, and DB cannot blame anyone but themselves for creating the issue.
That said, from the player side of this, there's really not much more we can do than either get angry and scream for answers that will never come, take DB's word that they will do everything they can to remove the profits the pack exploiters were able to get for themselves, or simply take our ball and go home. If serious inequities are still out there, and the majority of the player base will no longer be able to compete, we will know it very quickly. Then it will all be over regardless.
BTW: The Vegas books have weighed in on this issue. Odds follow...
DB manages to get it 'Right'... 1000;1
DB Screws the Pooch AGAIN ... Even Money
Db collapses under it's own hubris... 2:1
Puts 1,000 quatloos on DB collapsing
Founding ADM - PoF family of fleets (POF, POF2 & POF3) - Dear TP: Non sequitur. Your facts are uncoordinated.
They've said they can't get back the extra 250 chronitons already. To be fair they've apologised about it and 250 chrons makes no real difference to anyone who's been playing more than a week.
I don't believe that I'm paying for "a fair, even opportunity, competitive environment." I believe I'm paying for a bunch of pixels that I don't even own. If you expect more than that from game developers you're setting yourself up for a lot of disappointments imo
I don't disagree and that's the saddest commentary of all, re: impending and consistent disappointment. Nonetheless, the issue of getting what has been represented (and I'm talking larger picture than the now dubbed IPM Trainwreck) has been so perverted that we've all been beaten into submission. Just one sad state of affairs.
DB's only saving grace is the subject matter content. But for ST, this outfit would have failed long ago.
As a second aside, they absolutely "owe" us a far cry more than they've given on this fiasco. As a matter of law, there are inherent obligations of good faith and fair dealing, from a contractual perspective. Every single purchase one makes is a contract of buying and selling, pure and simple. They offer a product and we accept that offer by purchasing. At that moment, they absolutely owe us to ensure that we get what we pay for. In broad strokes, we all have paid for a fair, even opportunity, competitive environment. I ask you this: do we collectively believe that we've gotten that? (As rhetorical as it gets, ofc).
Don't view this through a myopic lense - the track record of band aid medicine style fixes and the illustrious DB history of epic fails, needs to be the backdrop of how we all evaluate this. History ain't on DB's side.
Will you free water people stop with the owe us stuff already? I don’t want to be given free stuff because of a mistake. I don’t want them to spend their time thinking about what to give me, I want them to worry about removing what the thieves in the night took. So far someone said the dilithium was taken back but I haven’t seen anyone yet say the crew they bought with it was removed. Or the hundreds of thousands of honor gained, citations bought and put on crew.....
They offer a product and we accept that offer by purchasing.
Whilst it’s not really material to the point you’re making, that’s a common misconception.
Sellers make an Invitation To Treat, Customer makes the Offer, Seller Accepts the Offer.
It’s a bit laissez faire with online sales, as I understand it the onus is on the seller to spell out that their offers amount to an ITT.
Anyway, carry on
Misconception, you say? My handful of professors in law school, the last 9 civil district court judges I've been in front of, and my state legislature (including the Law Institute, who footnotes our Civil Code), would be stunned to know that they have been operating under this misconception. Pray tell - which row did you sent in during the Obligations class for law school? I didn't see you. But, then, I sat toward the back (you know, to avoid that damn Socratic method and all...).
And, by all means, continue enjoying the bliss. :-)
As a second aside, they absolutely "owe" us a far cry more than they've given on this fiasco. As a matter of law, there are inherent obligations of good faith and fair dealing, from a contractual perspective. Every single purchase one makes is a contract of buying and selling, pure and simple. They offer a product and we accept that offer by purchasing. At that moment, they absolutely owe us to ensure that we get what we pay for. In broad strokes, we all have paid for a fair, even opportunity, competitive environment. I ask you this: do we collectively believe that we've gotten that? (As rhetorical as it gets, ofc).
Don't view this through a myopic lense - the track record of band aid medicine style fixes and the illustrious DB history of epic fails, needs to be the backdrop of how we all evaluate this. History ain't on DB's side.
Will you free water people stop with the owe us stuff already? I don’t want to be given free stuff because of a mistake. I don’t want them to spend their time thinking about what to give me, I want them to worry about removing what the thieves in the night took. So far someone said the dilithium was taken back but I haven’t seen anyone yet say the crew they bought with it was removed. Or the hundreds of thousands of honor gained, citations bought and put on crew.....
free water v. the apologists.....an epic battle. But, you misunderstand......don't mean they "owe" us stuff. What they "owe" is a suitable and objective fix to this nonsense. I agree - nobody needs a hand out, that wasn't what was meant.
As a second aside, they absolutely "owe" us a far cry more than they've given on this fiasco. As a matter of law, there are inherent obligations of good faith and fair dealing, from a contractual perspective. Every single purchase one makes is a contract of buying and selling, pure and simple. They offer a product and we accept that offer by purchasing. At that moment, they absolutely owe us to ensure that we get what we pay for. In broad strokes, we all have paid for a fair, even opportunity, competitive environment. I ask you this: do we collectively believe that we've gotten that? (As rhetorical as it gets, ofc).
Don't view this through a myopic lense - the track record of band aid medicine style fixes and the illustrious DB history of epic fails, needs to be the backdrop of how we all evaluate this. History ain't on DB's side.
Are you making the case for owed restitution for non purchasers, or that players made the purchases in good faith and have protections?
I just think everyone is underestimating how much of a cluster of a woven tapestry of a knot of CS, Payment Processor Policy, regional consumer protection act, and who knows what else is applicable.
Their best bet is high end over compensation for those who did not purchase the pack.
They started fixing it clawing back dilithium, something everyone understands and agrees with, and immediately ran into issues with leaving some large VIP 14 players with negative dilithium balance, meaning those players are largely locked out of using dilithium again, not ideal for DB with some of their biggest customers.
It is an overwhelming mess that will likely need in depth manual individual account investigation and correction for each person affected.
They intend to fix everything, but with a huge legal holiday and a crazy complicated plan of attack, its going to take a while. They don't know how to fix it just yet is most likely why they aren't saying more, in addition to the holiday.
The real scary part of this is that it confirms DB doesn't have the ability to correct a larger problem with a reasonable server rollback.
And yes, DB will never release a metric that ties to population. Sorry, that's just the way they are. I agree it would be useful and nice to know, even at a base "x%" but their handling of anything with population data is completely off limits.
They aren't working the holiday hours because the loose plan is to claw everything back and it doesn't affect the immediate game state for most players. I agree there will be people who bought event packs or chrons, throwing this event out of whack, and maybe more compensation is due because of that, and maybe they judged that to be a smaller Monday problem and not worth rushing and screwing up the bigger problem more now.
As a second aside, they absolutely "owe" us a far cry more than they've given on this fiasco. As a matter of law, there are inherent obligations of good faith and fair dealing, from a contractual perspective. Every single purchase one makes is a contract of buying and selling, pure and simple. They offer a product and we accept that offer by purchasing. At that moment, they absolutely owe us to ensure that we get what we pay for. In broad strokes, we all have paid for a fair, even opportunity, competitive environment. I ask you this: do we collectively believe that we've gotten that? (As rhetorical as it gets, ofc).
Don't view this through a myopic lense - the track record of band aid medicine style fixes and the illustrious DB history of epic fails, needs to be the backdrop of how we all evaluate this. History ain't on DB's side.
Will you free water people stop with the owe us stuff already? I don’t want to be given free stuff because of a mistake. I don’t want them to spend their time thinking about what to give me, I want them to worry about removing what the thieves in the night took. So far someone said the dilithium was taken back but I haven’t seen anyone yet say the crew they bought with it was removed. Or the hundreds of thousands of honor gained, citations bought and put on crew.....
free water v. the apologists.....an epic battle. But, you misunderstand......don't mean they "owe" us stuff. What they "owe" is a suitable and objective fix to this nonsense. I agree - nobody needs a hand out, that wasn't what was meant.
My mistake. They definitely do owe us a fix and fast! You’re right on
As a second aside, they absolutely "owe" us a far cry more than they've given on this fiasco. As a matter of law, there are inherent obligations of good faith and fair dealing, from a contractual perspective. Every single purchase one makes is a contract of buying and selling, pure and simple. They offer a product and we accept that offer by purchasing. At that moment, they absolutely owe us to ensure that we get what we pay for. In broad strokes, we all have paid for a fair, even opportunity, competitive environment. I ask you this: do we collectively believe that we've gotten that? (As rhetorical as it gets, ofc).
Don't view this through a myopic lense - the track record of band aid medicine style fixes and the illustrious DB history of epic fails, needs to be the backdrop of how we all evaluate this. History ain't on DB's side.
Are you making the case for owed restitution for non purchasers, or that players made the purchases in good faith and have protections?
I just think everyone is underestimating how much of a cluster of a woven tapestry of a knot of CS, Payment Processor Policy, regional consumer protection act, and who knows what else is applicable.
Their best bet is high end over compensation for those who did not purchase the pack.
They started fixing it clawing back dilithium, something everyone understands and agrees with, and immediately ran into issues with leaving some large VIP 14 players with negative dilithium balance, meaning those players are largely locked out of using dilithium again, not ideal for DB with some of their biggest customers.
It is an overwhelming mess that will likely need in depth manual individual account investigation and correction for each person affected.
They intend to fix everything, but with a huge legal holiday and a crazy complicated plan of attack, its going to take a while. They don't know how to fix it just yet is most likely why they aren't saying more, in addition to the holiday.
The real scary part of this is that it confirms DB doesn't have the ability to correct a larger problem with a reasonable server rollback.
And yes, DB will never release a metric that ties to population. Sorry, that's just the way they are. I agree it would be useful and nice to know, even at a base "x%" but their handling of anything with population data is completely off limits.
They aren't working the holiday hours because the loose plan is to claw everything back and it doesn't affect the immediate game state for most players. I agree there will be people who bought event packs or chrons, throwing this event out of whack, and maybe more compensation is due because of that, and maybe they judged that to be a smaller Monday problem and not worth rushing and screwing up the bigger problem more now.
My soapbox has been about the fact that we are owed a better explanation, information, and fix than we seem to have currently gotten. Understanding, ofc, that it's ongoing. That's all.
As for the players that got to take advantage - I don't think they should be punished, but I also don't think they should be able to retain the loot. As for the rest of us - it depends on how you handle the ones who did take advantage. That part, for me drives the bus on the treatment for the rest of us. If you revoke the loot (and any/everything that it might have been converted into), I'm good. If you don't, then the question is: how are made whole so that we aren't all disadvantaged? Not necessarily advocating for anyting for the rest of us....unless you let the others retain ill-gotten loot. That would be a problem.
Out of curiosity, where would one report something like this? DB's negligence and lack of empathy has grown beyond tiresome to maddening. Is there like some kind of judicial body for apps?
Probably not. But wouldn't that be something? Law & Order: Apps Division. Hey, if nothing else I think I've got a screenplay idea outta this latest DBacle.
From here on in, I'm going to give DB, particularly Shan, some room to work. We won't know anything until some mores dust settles. We are likely working up a lather prematurely.
This thread needs a <PAUSE> button. Until DB let's us know what their solution is and when it's implemented (and I assume it will be the laborious but necessary process of reversing purchases made with the dilithium) all we have is speculation and shouting into the wind.
Let's wait to hear from DB.....
...Then break out the pitchforks! 😉
Come join our fleet! We're a great social group that helps each other. You play the way you want to, participate as much as you want and if you want to be competitive, you can be! Check out our fleet ad:
Comments
I think that DB has said they aren’t done yet and that it will take days for them to claw everything back so it’s too early to say what your guy gets to keep or not keep. Unless you’re saying DB has communicated directly with him and said they’re done messing with his account.
Couldn’t they get in trouble because they didn’t post the odds of getting 1000 dilithium as 100%?
Most territories protect companies from honouring obviously incorrect offers and pricing, certainly the EU does.
Without checking, I'm fairly sure we don't actually own content we purchase here, only lease it anyway, and the ToS that almost none of us read probably give a lot of latitude to unilateral changes to that lease by DB.
Some players attempted to exploit the bug. Some players allegedly received over 100,000 dil whilst that pack was available. That was opening 300 packs in about 15 minutes, possible when adrenaline is running, or they have software automation.
Those players that exploited the situation are still rewarded with at least 350 dil, and according to a post above, they also might have extra crew. That is not fair on the player base who either could not, or chose not to exploit the bug.
Whilst DB have been messing around sorting out accounts that exploited the bug, they have not been developing the game or sorting out other bugs.
DB should at a minimum be putting the cheaters, the lucky ones, and the fair players on a level playing ground.
I can tell you for a fact that I didn’t receive anything extra from it. They pulled the extra dilithium from me and that was it. I hadn’t “laundered” any of it. I hadn’t spent even one penny of it. I let it sit knowing that they would be taking back and they did. I have no clue how someone got “extra compensation“
As for what DB “owes us”? They owe us a game to play. That’s it. We may like it, we may not. There may be bugs (well, there are definitely bugs LOL). We have the option of playing or not playing. Everyone makes their own choices. They don’t “owe” us any explanation at all. We may want an explanation but they don’t owe us an explanation.
What’s the difference if they are completely silent on the issue or they come out and say that there were 525 players that took advantage of the offer for 18.5 minutes? There is no way to know whether anything they tell us is accurate. We have to take their word on it no matter what. So again what’s the difference if they blow smoke at us in the form of some statistics that could very well be made up or if they’re just silent?
People quit playing mobile games all the time. No matter what the resolution is, in the end, this game will end and evaporate just like every other mobile game. They all have a lifespan and when that lifespan comes to an end none of the problems, issues etc. matter at all because it’s all just gone. Looking at it that way really put some perspective on it for me. It’s just a game and someday it will be gone.
And the 250 sorrychrons really covered the issue...
Until that day they need to be held accountable for what is going on in the game.
The 'is just a game' excuse can only go so far, especially when they are providing a service and charging people for it. This time was something that benefited players but is not always like this.
This way of thinking is what allowed the game industry deteriorate to the actual state and let companies like EA literally scam you to death.
A little quality and transparency is always desirable and needed.
I totally disagree that this incident only benefitted players.
It has benefitted some, but it’s harmed everyone else by damaging the whole economy. Unless DB remove all the things anyone bought with the free dil. And I need some reassurances that this is going to happen.
If they are going to let people keep multiple immortalised legendary crew or hundreds of extra crew slots (to give just 2 examples) purchased using the giveaway dil, that’s severely reducing the value of all my purchases made over the last 2.5 years. This will vary from player to player, but 230,000 dil (if true) can buy an awful lot of stuff. It may well make £££ or ££££ purchase history completely worthless.
https://forum.disruptorbeam.com/stt/discussion/5023/qh-the-oldest-fleet-in-timelines-l91-starbase-daily-targets-met
Don't view this through a myopic lense - the track record of band aid medicine style fixes and the illustrious DB history of epic fails, needs to be the backdrop of how we all evaluate this. History ain't on DB's side.
DB manages to get it 'Right'... 1000;1
DB Screws the Pooch AGAIN ... Even Money
Db collapses under it's own hubris... 2:1
I don't believe that I'm paying for "a fair, even opportunity, competitive environment." I believe I'm paying for a bunch of pixels that I don't even own. If you expect more than that from game developers you're setting yourself up for a lot of disappointments imo
https://forum.disruptorbeam.com/stt/discussion/5023/qh-the-oldest-fleet-in-timelines-l91-starbase-daily-targets-met
Exactly. You are paying for whatever the text of the offer/deal/pack says you'll get, or have the chance to get. No more, no less. Each transaction is a new deal. No equality is implied or intended.
In this instance, we, or most of us, didn't pay for anything, so we are owed nothing. A gesture of goodwill would be appreciated and welcomed, but it is not required.
I hope there are some consequences for this. At minimum, this ought to demonstrate to DB that their QC practices are subpar, to say the least, and much more care needs to be taken to ensure they are producing and presenting a consistent, error-free product. A pack like that going live is really inexcusable, and DB cannot blame anyone but themselves for creating the issue.
That said, from the player side of this, there's really not much more we can do than either get angry and scream for answers that will never come, take DB's word that they will do everything they can to remove the profits the pack exploiters were able to get for themselves, or simply take our ball and go home. If serious inequities are still out there, and the majority of the player base will no longer be able to compete, we will know it very quickly. Then it will all be over regardless.
Puts 1,000 quatloos on DB collapsing
I don't disagree and that's the saddest commentary of all, re: impending and consistent disappointment. Nonetheless, the issue of getting what has been represented (and I'm talking larger picture than the now dubbed IPM Trainwreck) has been so perverted that we've all been beaten into submission. Just one sad state of affairs.
DB's only saving grace is the subject matter content. But for ST, this outfit would have failed long ago.
Will you free water people stop with the owe us stuff already? I don’t want to be given free stuff because of a mistake. I don’t want them to spend their time thinking about what to give me, I want them to worry about removing what the thieves in the night took. So far someone said the dilithium was taken back but I haven’t seen anyone yet say the crew they bought with it was removed. Or the hundreds of thousands of honor gained, citations bought and put on crew.....
Whilst it’s not really material to the point you’re making, that’s a common misconception.
Sellers make an Invitation To Treat, Customer makes the Offer, Seller Accepts the Offer.
It’s a bit laissez faire with online sales, as I understand it the onus is on the seller to spell out that their offers amount to an ITT.
Anyway, carry on
Misconception, you say? My handful of professors in law school, the last 9 civil district court judges I've been in front of, and my state legislature (including the Law Institute, who footnotes our Civil Code), would be stunned to know that they have been operating under this misconception. Pray tell - which row did you sent in during the Obligations class for law school? I didn't see you. But, then, I sat toward the back (you know, to avoid that damn Socratic method and all...).
And, by all means, continue enjoying the bliss. :-)
free water v. the apologists.....an epic battle. But, you misunderstand......don't mean they "owe" us stuff. What they "owe" is a suitable and objective fix to this nonsense. I agree - nobody needs a hand out, that wasn't what was meant.
While I cannot go into details I can confirm that it is a top priority for us.
Are you making the case for owed restitution for non purchasers, or that players made the purchases in good faith and have protections?
I just think everyone is underestimating how much of a cluster of a woven tapestry of a knot of CS, Payment Processor Policy, regional consumer protection act, and who knows what else is applicable.
Their best bet is high end over compensation for those who did not purchase the pack.
They started fixing it clawing back dilithium, something everyone understands and agrees with, and immediately ran into issues with leaving some large VIP 14 players with negative dilithium balance, meaning those players are largely locked out of using dilithium again, not ideal for DB with some of their biggest customers.
It is an overwhelming mess that will likely need in depth manual individual account investigation and correction for each person affected.
They intend to fix everything, but with a huge legal holiday and a crazy complicated plan of attack, its going to take a while. They don't know how to fix it just yet is most likely why they aren't saying more, in addition to the holiday.
The real scary part of this is that it confirms DB doesn't have the ability to correct a larger problem with a reasonable server rollback.
And yes, DB will never release a metric that ties to population. Sorry, that's just the way they are. I agree it would be useful and nice to know, even at a base "x%" but their handling of anything with population data is completely off limits.
They aren't working the holiday hours because the loose plan is to claw everything back and it doesn't affect the immediate game state for most players. I agree there will be people who bought event packs or chrons, throwing this event out of whack, and maybe more compensation is due because of that, and maybe they judged that to be a smaller Monday problem and not worth rushing and screwing up the bigger problem more now.
Thanks, Shan. We can all agree that you have inherited a little bit of a dumpster fire here.
My mistake. They definitely do owe us a fix and fast! You’re right on
My soapbox has been about the fact that we are owed a better explanation, information, and fix than we seem to have currently gotten. Understanding, ofc, that it's ongoing. That's all.
As for the players that got to take advantage - I don't think they should be punished, but I also don't think they should be able to retain the loot. As for the rest of us - it depends on how you handle the ones who did take advantage. That part, for me drives the bus on the treatment for the rest of us. If you revoke the loot (and any/everything that it might have been converted into), I'm good. If you don't, then the question is: how are made whole so that we aren't all disadvantaged? Not necessarily advocating for anyting for the rest of us....unless you let the others retain ill-gotten loot. That would be a problem.
Probably not. But wouldn't that be something? Law & Order: Apps Division. Hey, if nothing else I think I've got a screenplay idea outta this latest DBacle.
Let's wait to hear from DB.....
...Then break out the pitchforks! 😉
https://forum.disruptorbeam.com/stt/discussion/5023/qh-the-oldest-fleet-in-timelines-l91-starbase-daily-targets-met