I actually agree with you that we could have done a better job explaining how the 4-Star Apology Packs will work when they go up today.
My intent was not to mock anyone, but to agree with the sentiment that math IS tough, and I understand why folks would be confused. It took me a few tries to get it myself. I apology if I gave you the exact opposite impression.
To answer another question that's come up a few times:
Everyone affected WILL get a number of 4-Star Apology Pack for free, based on the redemptions within the specified time period. You do NOT have to buy them in the Time Portal - that is a completely optional step for those who choose to do so.
And to be honest, it's also related to some of the wonkiness of how we have to set things up to get these packs to work. The Time Portal is designed to 1) let people travel through time to mess things up and 2) make purchases for dilithium. Which is why we're taking additional time this morning to make sure thing we don't end up with transwarp lizard babies.
The other and bigger deal it just why DB chose to not tell us prior to fixing the issue so we would stop buying. The first is indeed better this time but the second has gone unanswered and is the kind of thing that makes those of us who have been around this game for a while gun shy about any actual change happening.
One would have hoped after the broken Geordi portal, where DB left a portal they knew was not working properly up and running, and the ensuing well-deserved criticism that came out of that decision, that DB would take care to minimize the number of players affected by suspending sales of the portal as soon as it was known something was wrong.
To continue this same pattern of behavior, including leaving broken items out for the unwary to purchase, seems like DB is either unwilling to learn from its own mistakes, or worse, counts on a certain percentage of affected players to remain unaware of problems so DB doesn't have to provide compensation for a problem they know exists.
The apology portal is certainly better than trying to maintain a pretense for players who don't read the forums that there is not and has never been an issue, but discontinuing sales of a faulty product should be the first priority when an issue comes to light. Prevent the harm.
So I'm either getting like 11 or 110. We'll find out tomorrow. And oh yes, there will be youtube.
Am I the only one not clear, is the list of super-rare crew in this sorry pack the time portal additions October 11 and only the time portal additions?
The 4-Star Apology Pack (which is not yet live), will contain ONLY the 4-stars that were added to the Time Portal on October 11.
And how many 100k's of honor will they cost?
A pack of 10x 4* crew ??
When a 1* Stargazer Picard = 4500 honor
The apology packs will only contain a single 4* crew, not 10. And keep in mind, the ones available for honor will be in addition to the ones you get free. Since they are in lieu of an error on their part, I am guessing they will be for a lesser honor cost than they would be otherwise. Guessing some percentage of a 4 star citation.
Its all good, the tone of my post was properly a bit more harsh than I thought it would be...the original comment wasn't yours, so I suppose we both just got a different vibe from it.....I saw it as a sneaky insult to other peoples intelligence, where as you likely just saw it as a post about how hard maths can be (plus you did make the funny comment about Erin in your follow about post before the other comment was made, so you were obviously in a joking mode about the whole calculations thing).
You have confirmed what the community was telling you that it was impossible to get the 'new' super-rare in a live/end-user version of the game, despite what your tests/game data was showing which means the Q&A person did not test the portal for the same game we're playing, meaning Shan's statement was false.
If absolutely no player was able to get 4*, then that was indeed a lie or at the least a misunderstanding/miscommunication between shan and those that did the testing.......because obviously it wasn't done on a player level account on the live game
Can we take a moment to use this mix up to address how unfair the promotions are in how they are distributed?
Some people were fortunate enough to get a x10, x15, x30 deal offered during the time between the 10th and today. They bought the deal (as many others would have) and are now receiving 10, 15, or 30 more 4* crew as a result.
If the offered had been made to all, then people who regularly purchase those deals would be included in this unexpected benefit. I don't begrudge any who are receiving this apology deal from DB, and I commend DB for making this effort to set things right. I do however wish to highlight this as yet another reason why the deal offers need to be fair and presented equally to all.
Thanks in advance to any who see this and can help set this straight or explain why this imbalance in offer delivery must continue.
That's actually very unfair, quite frankly I can't think of a single valid reason for it.......if people are getting random deals randomly then you can't really test how popular a deal is with the players, you can only see how popular it is with specific players........I believe a player suggested giving the same offers and having players choose which to buy, they also pointed out the fact that the current system is basically lowering db's revenue since its prevents players who want to spend from spending, and really why would one spend on one deal when they know there is a sweeter deal other players are currently getting?
oh just thought of something, increased frequency of certain deals could be a reward for reaching certain vip thresholds but from what I've read on here that doesn't seem to be the case, and if it is DB should make that clear and obvious in the game.
Black Pebble;c-5085"]The other and bigger deal it just why DB chose to not tell us prior to fixing the issue so we would stop buying. The first is indeed better this time but the second has gone unanswered and is the kind of thing that makes those of us who have been around this game for a while gun shy about any actual change happening.
They didn't want to off put people from spending I suppose, john might be willing to spend this minute but might not be willing to when the fix is made..........of course they might have also only validated that there was indeed an issue at the same time that they went ahead and worked on the fix as well as posted about it.
All round seems like a very disheartening case but from what others have said, and from what I have come to learn about the packs involved and the possible rewards etc. it does seem to be a totally praise worthy fix and compensation, so while the other things (depending on when they knew what) could have potential been handled way better, I'd say in this moment with the fact they have fixed the issue and justly so compensated the players DB is being an excellent company.......and again I don't even play stt.
there went my long **tsk tsk** great post (at least I think it was great), only thing I can think of is I accidentally hit the delete button when I was editing it **face palm**
Edit: if any mods or admins have the ability to recover or at least view and thus copy deleted post, then I'd certainly appreciate it if when you find yourself bored with nothing to do, you would recover that post for me........which seeing as I'm not actually seeing a delete option while editing this post, I'm not sure how my post disappeared, nothing in there was flag or removal worthy so it couldn't have been that.
So, what you're saying is, we can't trust anything you say right now when we complain and get a response to the effect of we test everything weekly and it's working as intended?
Guys there was a mistake. It has been resolved. And there is a plan to compensate those who were impacted. Why must we be so negative about it still?
Because it keeps happening again and again. We all know mistakes happen. Instead of learning from Musketeer La Forge where they said everything is tested and working fine, you all are nuts and just unlucky, only to see that there really was a problem, they do the same thing again.
Why not look at the customer feedback that was given and actually do something about it instead of saying everything is fine, we tested it, you all are nuts? Who’s to say this won’t happen again? If there are bugged packs in the future, and there may be, will they a) say everything is fine, you all are nuts OR b) actually listen and do some proper testing?
Guys there was a mistake. It has been resolved. And there is a plan to compensate those who were impacted. Why must we be so negative about it still?
If you have to ask, there's probably no convincing you. It had to be proven to them, as was the case so many times before, and had they not been caught red handed they likely would have shoved it under the rug.
As I expect they have done many, many times before.
And their idea of compensation isn't always adequate. If I spend money on a lie, I expect either a complete refund or equal value. Is this equal value? Who knows. "Coming Soon".
Guys there was a mistake. It has been resolved. And there is a plan to compensate those who were impacted. Why must we be so negative about it still?
And their idea of compensation isn't always adequate. If I spend money on a lie, I expect either a complete refund or equal value. Is this equal value? Who knows. "Coming Soon".
You get to keep what you got from the bugged pulls and in addition get a guaranteed new 4* for each 10 pull. Thats better than if there was no bug in the first place. To me that is adequate compensation for the pulls I did.
I was just about to reply and agree with NN, one of the bigger issue in the past has be the that an issue would come up and then we would get nothing but silence as a reply to our attempts to figure out what was going on on DB's part. This thread while great still had some of those old habits. Ones the confusion generated by Erin's offer and what it is we are getting. The other and bigger deal it just why DB chose to not tell us prior to fixing the issue so we would stop buying. The first is indeed better this time but the second has gone unanswered and is the kind of thing that makes those of us who have been around this game for a while gun shy about any actual change happening.
Hi Lilac,
Here's what the sequence of events, from our end.
Oct 11
Around noon-ish eastern - Time portal is updated.
Oct 17
Around 10:00-ish eastern - Shan raises the concern from the community that the new 4-stars aren't dropping. Dev team immediately investigates. Everything looks good (or so we thought).
Oct 18
Around 11:00-ish eastern - Shan raises the concern again. Dev team investigates further.
Around 3:00pm, realizes there's a scenario that wasn't caught by our normal tools & processes.
By 3:05pm, the bug is fixed on live.
From that point to now (and then some), Erin and the Dev team focus on figuring out who was affected and how make it right to those players.
There's more than a few places where we made mistakes, some of which are:
Assuming that the current test tools/processes could perfectly capture the live game experience.
Not realizing there were hidden/unchecked rogue files.
Prematurely giving Shan the all-clear.
I hope this gives you a better understanding of how things unfolded. We absolutely dropped the ball, and all of us understand the onus is on us to earn your trust. And as Erin mentioned previously, part of that is being more diligent about being more transparent and timely with all of our players.
EDIT: 4-Star Apology Pack status - still in testing/not live.
Hosun Lee Civilian, Brand and Marketing Ex-Disruptor Beam
I was just about to reply and agree with NN, one of the bigger issue in the past has be the that an issue would come up and then we would get nothing but silence as a reply to our attempts to figure out what was going on on DB's part. This thread while great still had some of those old habits. Ones the confusion generated by Erin's offer and what it is we are getting. The other and bigger deal it just why DB chose to not tell us prior to fixing the issue so we would stop buying. The first is indeed better this time but the second has gone unanswered and is the kind of thing that makes those of us who have been around this game for a while gun shy about any actual change happening.
Hi Lilac,
Here's what the sequence of events, from our end.
Oct 11
Around noon-ish eastern - Time portal is updated.
Oct 17
Around 10:00-ish eastern - Shan raises the concern from the community that the new 4-stars aren't dropping. Dev team immediately investigates. Everything looks good (or so we thought).
Oct 18
Around 11:00-ish eastern - Shan raises the concern again. Dev team investigates further.
Around 3:00pm, realizes there's a scenario that wasn't caught by our normal tools & processes.
By 3:05pm, the bug is fixed on live.
From that point to now (and then some), Erin and the Dev team focus on figuring out who was affected and how make it right to those players.
There's more than a few places where we dropped the ball, some of which are:
Assuming that the current test tools/processes could perfectly capture the live game experience.
Not realizing there were hidden/unchecked rogue files.
Prematurely giving Shan the all-clear.
I hope this gives you a better understanding of how things unfolded. We absolutely dropped the ball, and all of us understand the onus is on us to earn your trust. And as Erin mentioned previously, part of that is being more diligent abou being more transparent and timely with all of our players.
EDIT: 4-Star Apology Pack status - still in testing/not live.
Thanks for the timeline, my question is around the time between 11:00 AM and 3:00 PM.
Here is your timeline:
Around 11:00-ish eastern - Shan raises the concern again. Dev team investigates further.
Around 3:00pm, realizes there's a scenario that wasn't caught by our normal tools & processes.
The test done by QA was done on live, with a real account.
I do not have screenshots though, nor the names.
So at 12:13 Shan told us the issue was tested by the Senior QA on the Live server with a real account. Your acknowledgement at 3:05 PM of the problem means the QA's test could not possibly have been Live with a real account.
I can accept that a bug was missed. I can accept that it took some time to find the bug. But why was Shan told the test was live with a real account when it clearly wasn't? Either someone gave bad information to Shan or Shan gave bad information to the players. How did that happen and what is being done to prevent that in the future?
Can we take a moment to use this mix up to address how unfair the promotions are in how they are distributed?
Some people were fortunate enough to get a x10, x15, x30 deal offered during the time between the 10th and today. They bought the deal (as many others would have) and are now receiving 10, 15, or 30 more 4* crew as a result.
If the offered had been made to all, then people who regularly purchase those deals would be included in this unexpected benefit. I don't begrudge any who are receiving this apology deal from DB, and I commend DB for making this effort to set things right. I do however wish to highlight this as yet another reason why the deal offers need to be fair and presented equally to all.
Thanks in advance to any who see this and can help set this straight or explain why this imbalance in offer delivery must continue.
Plus one on this one, man.
In addition to the apology packs, all players should also have this week to buy the ten 10x @ $10. This would address the issue for those wanting to re try their pulls with the new crew additions.
And go a long way to show you are not indifferent to how these different glitches interact with different offers and subsequently advantage/disadvantage players at random.
Show us you want to be trusted with our next $$ spent. Give everyone a chance to get the offer most often asked for.
Offering it to everyone would mean you don't want a game appearing intrinsically unfair, imo.
Guys there was a mistake. It has been resolved. And there is a plan to compensate those who were impacted. Why must we be so negative about it still?
And their idea of compensation isn't always adequate. If I spend money on a lie, I expect either a complete refund or equal value. Is this equal value? Who knows. "Coming Soon".
You get to keep what you got from the bugged pulls and in addition get a guaranteed new 4* for each 10 pull. Thats better than if there was no bug in the first place. To me that is adequate compensation for the pulls I did.
The number pulled are determined partly by different special offers. Not by whether you purchased the special offers that gave everyone equal opportunity, but instead determined by what offer you are randomly/purposefully given. That includes being excluded from receiving any crew pack specials for weeks on end.
This system of special offers is unfair especially given the number of errors in the game. It does nothing to help keep the game fair.
So I'm either getting like 11 or 110. We'll find out tomorrow. And oh yes, there will be youtube.
Am I the only one not clear, is the list of super-rare crew in this sorry pack the time portal additions October 11 and only the time portal additions?
The 4-Star Apology Pack (which is not yet live), will contain ONLY the 4-stars that were added to the Time Portal on October 11.
And how many 100k's of honor will they cost?
A pack of 10x 4* crew ??
When a 1* Stargazer Picard = 4500 honor
"1) We are adding a new pack to the Time Portal, 4-Star Apology, which grants one new 4-star crew (no Beholds). This pack will not cost Dilithium, and you will be able to purchase it for Honor. The pack will be available tomorrow and remain up for one week."
The apology pack doesn't contain 10 crew members. It only contains "one new 4-star crew" member.
Just want to say how awesome the response has been in this thread from Devs. Yes people were a bit confused about compensation but it is nice to get detailed feedback.
I know not everyone will agree 100% but it is better than a lot of the other situations I see. Yes information is lost or not communicated as we all like but for someone who works in an environment in which I am constantly communicating with people stuff happens.
I just spent 50k on a legendary citation a couple hours before this thread was posted. DB better hope I have the honor to buy these things before they’re gone or there will be more tickets...
I have to assume obvious troll post is obvious here, but I had to be the one to bite. Darx, did you just threaten DB if they don't make something that they are under no obligation to sell you (4* units) cheap you would start throwing tickets to clog up their system even more? How's that entitlement working out for ya in other areas of life?
Seriously, that has to be a troll post but it just irritated the shizzle out of me.
They are literally giving out free 4* units for every 10 packs you opened to rectify this issue, and you threaten them if you don't get cheap extras. Good god what is wrong with people anymore.....
Also, if you can, is it possible you could tell us the honor cost for the apology packs?
The cost would have to be less than 16,200 honor because that's how much it costs for a 4* behold from the honor store. Since this isn't a behold, the cost would have to be less. Still way, way, way more honor than I'm willing to pay (such a horrible airlock/honor ratio).
All I can say. Is this will not happen until they are sure there are no bugs with pulls.
As far as honor cost, if it is free for those that had pulls during time period, and it costs for every other pull, I would guess between 5k and 10k will be the cost. Since not a behold, it should be less than honor behold but not by a whole lot.
Edit if they mean we pay honor to get these pulls they are offering. Then it should be somewhere between 2k and 200. Based on odds of new crew to old crew. If it was a 50 50 ratio the cost would be 200 honor. If it in 9 super rare pulls you would get one new crew on the average for all available superrare crew. Then the cost should be 8 times 200 or 1600.
So I'm either getting like 11 or 110. We'll find out tomorrow. And oh yes, there will be youtube.
Am I the only one not clear, is the list of super-rare crew in this sorry pack the time portal additions October 11 and only the time portal additions?
The 4-Star Apology Pack (which is not yet live), will contain ONLY the 4-stars that were added to the Time Portal on October 11.
Black Pebble,
You use the word PACK, so how any 4* crew are in this PACK??? 10? or as other suggest just 1
I was just about to reply and agree with NN, one of the bigger issue in the past has be the that an issue would come up and then we would get nothing but silence as a reply to our attempts to figure out what was going on on DB's part. This thread while great still had some of those old habits. Ones the confusion generated by Erin's offer and what it is we are getting. The other and bigger deal it just why DB chose to not tell us prior to fixing the issue so we would stop buying. The first is indeed better this time but the second has gone unanswered and is the kind of thing that makes those of us who have been around this game for a while gun shy about any actual change happening.
Hi Lilac,
Here's what the sequence of events, from our end.
Oct 11
Around noon-ish eastern - Time portal is updated.
Oct 17
Around 10:00-ish eastern - Shan raises the concern from the community that the new 4-stars aren't dropping. Dev team immediately investigates. Everything looks good (or so we thought).
Oct 18
Around 11:00-ish eastern - Shan raises the concern again. Dev team investigates further.
Around 3:00pm, realizes there's a scenario that wasn't caught by our normal tools & processes.
By 3:05pm, the bug is fixed on live.
From that point to now (and then some), Erin and the Dev team focus on figuring out who was affected and how make it right to those players.
There's more than a few places where we made mistakes, some of which are:
Assuming that the current test tools/processes could perfectly capture the live game experience.
Not realizing there were hidden/unchecked rogue files.
Prematurely giving Shan the all-clear.
I hope this gives you a better understanding of how things unfolded. We absolutely dropped the ball, and all of us understand the onus is on us to earn your trust. And as Erin mentioned previously, part of that is being more diligent about being more transparent and timely with all of our players.
EDIT: 4-Star Apology Pack status - still in testing/not live.
Black Pebble,
This is yet another example of poor communication and how DB are upsetting their customers with an empty promise.
Apology packs will be available , oh hang on oops mmmmhhh a ok what's that still in testing?
I've told everyone they'll be ready to redeem today.
#MoreSorryTons 3000? should cover it.
Frustrating for you and very disappointing for your clientele who are checking for the apolystars
Comments
One would have hoped after the broken Geordi portal, where DB left a portal they knew was not working properly up and running, and the ensuing well-deserved criticism that came out of that decision, that DB would take care to minimize the number of players affected by suspending sales of the portal as soon as it was known something was wrong.
To continue this same pattern of behavior, including leaving broken items out for the unwary to purchase, seems like DB is either unwilling to learn from its own mistakes, or worse, counts on a certain percentage of affected players to remain unaware of problems so DB doesn't have to provide compensation for a problem they know exists.
The apology portal is certainly better than trying to maintain a pretense for players who don't read the forums that there is not and has never been an issue, but discontinuing sales of a faulty product should be the first priority when an issue comes to light. Prevent the harm.
Not a Native English speaker - be lenient toward me
Edit: if any mods or admins have the ability to recover or at least view and thus copy deleted post, then I'd certainly appreciate it if when you find yourself bored with nothing to do, you would recover that post for me........which seeing as I'm not actually seeing a delete option while editing this post, I'm not sure how my post disappeared, nothing in there was flag or removal worthy so it couldn't have been that.
Good to know.
Because it keeps happening again and again. We all know mistakes happen. Instead of learning from Musketeer La Forge where they said everything is tested and working fine, you all are nuts and just unlucky, only to see that there really was a problem, they do the same thing again.
Why not look at the customer feedback that was given and actually do something about it instead of saying everything is fine, we tested it, you all are nuts? Who’s to say this won’t happen again? If there are bugged packs in the future, and there may be, will they a) say everything is fine, you all are nuts OR b) actually listen and do some proper testing?
If you have to ask, there's probably no convincing you. It had to be proven to them, as was the case so many times before, and had they not been caught red handed they likely would have shoved it under the rug.
As I expect they have done many, many times before.
And their idea of compensation isn't always adequate. If I spend money on a lie, I expect either a complete refund or equal value. Is this equal value? Who knows. "Coming Soon".
You get to keep what you got from the bugged pulls and in addition get a guaranteed new 4* for each 10 pull. Thats better than if there was no bug in the first place. To me that is adequate compensation for the pulls I did.
Hi Lilac,
Here's what the sequence of events, from our end.
Oct 11
Oct 17
Oct 18
There's more than a few places where we made mistakes, some of which are:
I hope this gives you a better understanding of how things unfolded. We absolutely dropped the ball, and all of us understand the onus is on us to earn your trust. And as Erin mentioned previously, part of that is being more diligent about being more transparent and timely with all of our players.
EDIT: 4-Star Apology Pack status - still in testing/not live.
Civilian, Brand and Marketing
Ex-Disruptor Beam
Can you now give some clarity on the timing of when these compensation pulls will be availed to the players via the Time Portal?
Thanks for the timeline, my question is around the time between 11:00 AM and 3:00 PM.
Here is your timeline:
Shan at 12:05 PM:
My response at 12:08 PM:
We suspected a QA/Prod issue since it's happened before and asked about it.
Shan then replied at 12:13 PM:
So at 12:13 Shan told us the issue was tested by the Senior QA on the Live server with a real account. Your acknowledgement at 3:05 PM of the problem means the QA's test could not possibly have been Live with a real account.
I can accept that a bug was missed. I can accept that it took some time to find the bug. But why was Shan told the test was live with a real account when it clearly wasn't? Either someone gave bad information to Shan or Shan gave bad information to the players. How did that happen and what is being done to prevent that in the future?
In addition to the apology packs, all players should also have this week to buy the ten 10x @ $10. This would address the issue for those wanting to re try their pulls with the new crew additions.
And go a long way to show you are not indifferent to how these different glitches interact with different offers and subsequently advantage/disadvantage players at random.
Show us you want to be trusted with our next $$ spent. Give everyone a chance to get the offer most often asked for.
Offering it to everyone would mean you don't want a game appearing intrinsically unfair, imo.
The number pulled are determined partly by different special offers. Not by whether you purchased the special offers that gave everyone equal opportunity, but instead determined by what offer you are randomly/purposefully given. That includes being excluded from receiving any crew pack specials for weeks on end.
This system of special offers is unfair especially given the number of errors in the game. It does nothing to help keep the game fair.
"1) We are adding a new pack to the Time Portal, 4-Star Apology, which grants one new 4-star crew (no Beholds). This pack will not cost Dilithium, and you will be able to purchase it for Honor. The pack will be available tomorrow and remain up for one week."
The apology pack doesn't contain 10 crew members. It only contains "one new 4-star crew" member.
Join the eXo|plosion today!
I know not everyone will agree 100% but it is better than a lot of the other situations I see. Yes information is lost or not communicated as we all like but for someone who works in an environment in which I am constantly communicating with people stuff happens.
Thanks Black Pebble
I have to assume obvious troll post is obvious here, but I had to be the one to bite. Darx, did you just threaten DB if they don't make something that they are under no obligation to sell you (4* units) cheap you would start throwing tickets to clog up their system even more? How's that entitlement working out for ya in other areas of life?
Seriously, that has to be a troll post but it just irritated the shizzle out of me.
They are literally giving out free 4* units for every 10 packs you opened to rectify this issue, and you threaten them if you don't get cheap extras. Good god what is wrong with people anymore.....
/Entitlement Rant
My guess is “no”
The cost would have to be less than 16,200 honor because that's how much it costs for a 4* behold from the honor store. Since this isn't a behold, the cost would have to be less. Still way, way, way more honor than I'm willing to pay (such a horrible airlock/honor ratio).
As far as honor cost, if it is free for those that had pulls during time period, and it costs for every other pull, I would guess between 5k and 10k will be the cost. Since not a behold, it should be less than honor behold but not by a whole lot.
Edit if they mean we pay honor to get these pulls they are offering. Then it should be somewhere between 2k and 200. Based on odds of new crew to old crew. If it was a 50 50 ratio the cost would be 200 honor. If it in 9 super rare pulls you would get one new crew on the average for all available superrare crew. Then the cost should be 8 times 200 or 1600.
Since today isnt yesterday or tomorrow it’s probably best to go with SOON (tm)
Black Pebble,
You use the word PACK, so how any 4* crew are in this PACK??? 10? or as other suggest just 1
If 1 why use the word PACK?
Black Pebble,
This is yet another example of poor communication and how DB are upsetting their customers with an empty promise.
Apology packs will be available , oh hang on oops mmmmhhh a ok what's that still in testing?
I've told everyone they'll be ready to redeem today.
#MoreSorryTons 3000? should cover it.
Frustrating for you and very disappointing for your clientele who are checking for the apolystars