Letting you know that I've read this thread, and will be bringing your concerns/feedback to the team.
Thank you Shan. I want the team to know that they put in a good job with the game itself, but we are not happy with shady tactics designed to make us compromise our personal data.
For a demonstration of the spam generated by just one survey attempt, I provide this picture of my dump email inbox:
Every second the Offer Wall exists irrevocably loses the trust of, and revenue from, the player community. Don’t take too long to formulate a response.
I don't have the option shown yet. Probably need an update. But while I am not worried about Timelines now being "spyware," I am never going to even open the wall. I would have been wary in any case, but I thank you guys for the warnings.
I hate these offers, and it seems irresponsible to employ it via mailbox when there's a widespread bug that DB can't fix that lets some users multi tap inbox items for duplicate or triplicate rewards.
This bug goes WAY higher than "triplicate rewards". Some recent change now causes the mailbox to freeze after multi-tapping, allowing many more taps on that claim button before it unfreezes.
For a demonstration of the spam generated by just one survey attempt, I provide this picture of my dump email inbox:
Every second the Offer Wall exists irrevocably loses the trust of, and revenue from, the player community. Don’t take too long to formulate a response.
Did you provide that email at any point during the survey? Or did they get it another way?
I think what I appreciate most about this is how many angles we have to be disappointed in.
Data privacy concerns.
Buggy/non-existent payouts.
Allowing those who acquire dilithium via other games' in-app purchases to remain VIP0.
Reward claim abuse through the inbox.
Loss of consumer confidence.
Losing friends and fleetmates who will justifiably move on.
Every second the Offer Wall exists irrevocably loses the trust of, and revenue from, the player community. Don’t take too long to formulate a response.
I really didn't want to say this, because it's an ultimatum/threat, but it's one that's impossible to avoid and sadly true. I believe the Steam summer sale is coming up and there are a whole lot of games out there who don't treat their customers like the product and return better value for the time you invest.
Just for the record, I have uninstalled the new version of the app and reinstalled v7.5.2. I also switched off auto-update, and will not be updating again until I am 100% sure that it is safe to do so. If we get to the point where a mandatory update is required and this situation has not been resolved, I will have to reassess my continued involvement with this game.
Not happy at all about this, I'm all for TP opening up different revenue streams (which nobody would have issue with) but this isn't it. How TP went with a company who have such a bad rep from other game is beyond me, this is going to cause a lot of players to leave. I'm only a few months and I'm thinking what's the point when lots of veteran players will quit... they're the ones new players need because they help us in fleets and on the Reddit. Without them new players won't stay and the game will be dead.
So wait, ironSource can collect data from us through STT, whether we actually participate in the Offerwall or not? Did I actually understand that correctly?
I don’t have it yet either and I updated the other day. This may have something to do with my Weblock app and it’s VPN feature but some of the comments about what’s going on in the background when using the app regardless concerns me.
So wait, ironSource can collect data from us through STT, whether we actually participate in the Offerwall or not? Did I actually understand that correctly?
That certainly seems to be the case. They're harvesting our data without our consent, which is illegal for a lot of users (anyone in the EU or the UK for starters) and highly unethical for everyone else.
I've read a lot of the feedback and I would agree with many of the points that have been raised. These offers are often worse off than actually just buying the dilithium. The fact that many are reporting personal data mining is alarming and counter to the overall gaming experience that many of us have come to appreciate from DB. The dilithium wall is not intrusive, which is nice. However, this is a clear "no" for me and will not be using it. Now that TP has taken over, the perception by many is that the new offers, the new packs, and now the dilithium wall - they are all cash grabs. Understanding that this game has always been "for profit", the new way things are being rolled out seems a little more intrusive and "in your face" than things had been previously. It is becoming more and more of a turnoff...and in my opinion, is diluting the quality of the game.
103 emails in the spam box in my old email account today.
All as a result of starting (not finishing) one of the surveys attached to this. (I know they are definitely from this as they are addressed to my cat...)
So wait, ironSource can collect data from us through STT, whether we actually participate in the Offerwall or not? Did I actually understand that correctly?
That certainly seems to be the case. They're harvesting our data without our consent, which is illegal for a lot of users (anyone in the EU or the UK for starters) and highly unethical for everyone else.
I’ll wait a little bit for an official response before I delete the app and consider my experience with TP done. But I won’t wait long. I’ve passed this info onto the other (~200) members of the {DD} fleet family as well so they can make their own decisions about whether they want to continue their participation with TP beyond this too. I don’t know what else to say. Unbelievable.
Shan, here are main questions that need to be addressed:
1. Does Ironsource collect data even if this "feature" is not used, yes or no?
2. Is this consistant with the ToS and/or all relevent laws in each affected country?
3. What measures are used to prevent bad actors amoung the third parties?
4. How do we know that Ironsource is not a bad actor?
^^ these have to be answered for a minimum, I'm from Ireland in the EU. We've strict data laws in place (GDRP) if this goes against the laws TP are in serious trouble with EU data commissioners.
Did the Devs actually fully test this out before making it live, i.e. Did they get the same experience of... even if you complete a quiz/survey you don't get the dilithium reward but instead: spin the mysterious wheel of fortune that inherently always says you have to take another quiz/survey.
Or that they constantly got the "sorry this survey wasn't a good match" at 10%, 25%, 33% of the numerous surveys also preventing you from getting the dilithium reward?
[was on Sabbatical/Hiatus] Currently a trialist at Galaxy SquadronSTAY SAFE and KBO
Two concerns
1. Does the app share your user data like ip address etc even if you don't open the offerwall? That needs to stop lol.
2. There needs to be a disclaimer saying that your user data may be shared with TP partners Ironsource with a confirm button before opening said wall and a reference link to how Ironsource may use or sell your data available to read before clicking the confirmation button.
I like the offerwall as a good way to balance the game for ftp players, but it needs to be done the right way.
Now I am really upset. I once again clicked one offer and then checked the privacy settings. There is an endless list of permissions and most were checked. I unchecked them but I do not even know if by submitting I agree to the ones that are "essential". TP please clarify!
Did it come up with that, or did you select an option for more granular control over cookies?
If you didn't purposefully go for a granular view, and that's the default, then that looks like the kind of "baffle them with BS" route some companies have taken with cookies. It's irregular and immoral.
They should offer you the ones grouped, with refusing the functional ones stopping you using the page and the others entirely optional.
I clicked on the Privacy Settings on the very bottom of the survey to get there. I was hoping to be able to explicitely disagree to using my data and maybe be removed from their list (not sure if I am on it already as I finished a survey yesterday), but there was no opt-out to be found which is very dubious.
Wir, die Mirror Tribbles [MiT] haben freie Plätze zu vergeben. Kein Zwang und kein Stress, dafür aber Spaß, Discord und eine nette, hilfsbereite Gemeinschaft, incl. voll ausgebauter Starbase und täglich 700 ISM.
Comments
Thank you Shan. I want the team to know that they put in a good job with the game itself, but we are not happy with shady tactics designed to make us compromise our personal data.
Every second the Offer Wall exists irrevocably loses the trust of, and revenue from, the player community. Don’t take too long to formulate a response.
I would assume the VPN gets you a new IP address and it messes up the (Google?) tracking so you get a different set of adds.
Trying is the first step towards failure.
This bug goes WAY higher than "triplicate rewards". Some recent change now causes the mailbox to freeze after multi-tapping, allowing many more taps on that claim button before it unfreezes.
Did you provide that email at any point during the survey? Or did they get it another way?
Trying is the first step towards failure.
Lorca, his wallet closed.
WRG, when the wall fell.
Lorca, his wallet open.
Data privacy concerns.
Buggy/non-existent payouts.
Allowing those who acquire dilithium via other games' in-app purchases to remain VIP0.
Reward claim abuse through the inbox.
Loss of consumer confidence.
Losing friends and fleetmates who will justifiably move on.
I really didn't want to say this, because it's an ultimatum/threat, but it's one that's impossible to avoid and sadly true. I believe the Steam summer sale is coming up and there are a whole lot of games out there who don't treat their customers like the product and return better value for the time you invest.
That certainly seems to be the case. They're harvesting our data without our consent, which is illegal for a lot of users (anyone in the EU or the UK for starters) and highly unethical for everyone else.
I quit half way through because it was slow and tedious.
All as a result of starting (not finishing) one of the surveys attached to this. (I know they are definitely from this as they are addressed to my cat...)
1. Does Ironsource collect data even if this "feature" is not used, yes or no?
2. Is this consistant with the ToS and/or all relevent laws in each affected country?
3. What measures are used to prevent bad actors amoung the third parties?
4. How do we know that Ironsource is not a bad actor?
I’ll wait a little bit for an official response before I delete the app and consider my experience with TP done. But I won’t wait long. I’ve passed this info onto the other (~200) members of the {DD} fleet family as well so they can make their own decisions about whether they want to continue their participation with TP beyond this too. I don’t know what else to say. Unbelievable.
^^ these have to be answered for a minimum, I'm from Ireland in the EU. We've strict data laws in place (GDRP) if this goes against the laws TP are in serious trouble with EU data commissioners.
I would like answers to all of these questions. I kind of think TP owes us an answer on #1 today. The rest can be answered this week or next.
I am in complete agreement. With one exception: We deserve answers to these questions RIGHT NOW.
Did the Devs actually fully test this out before making it live, i.e. Did they get the same experience of... even if you complete a quiz/survey you don't get the dilithium reward but instead: spin the mysterious wheel of fortune that inherently always says you have to take another quiz/survey.
Or that they constantly got the "sorry this survey wasn't a good match" at 10%, 25%, 33% of the numerous surveys also preventing you from getting the dilithium reward?
Probably very little. These things are only cost-effective if you can automate onboarding as much possible, due diligence bites into overhead.
1. Does the app share your user data like ip address etc even if you don't open the offerwall? That needs to stop lol.
2. There needs to be a disclaimer saying that your user data may be shared with TP partners Ironsource with a confirm button before opening said wall and a reference link to how Ironsource may use or sell your data available to read before clicking the confirmation button.
I like the offerwall as a good way to balance the game for ftp players, but it needs to be done the right way.
I clicked on the Privacy Settings on the very bottom of the survey to get there. I was hoping to be able to explicitely disagree to using my data and maybe be removed from their list (not sure if I am on it already as I finished a survey yesterday), but there was no opt-out to be found which is very dubious.