i updated and now i see it. i thought the game would auto update so it hadnt occurred to me to check for an update lol. i see some offers for like over 6k dil ! i got excited and was like hell ya ill watch a video but its not a video. i would have to download a new game and then play it for a while which i dont want to do.
the offer wall doesnt bother me. its just not a feature ill play. however if the offer wall is sending my info or looking at my phones contents then i dont like the offer wall
@Shan - Not wishing to cause you any further personal grief on this matter, but this state of affairs is now not only worrying, it is also starting to anger.
Can you let us know please if there is an ETA on the deliberations of the Privacy team?
I do not have a definite ETA, but I am hoping before the end of the week.
@Shan - Not wishing to cause you any further personal grief on this matter, but this state of affairs is now not only worrying, it is also starting to anger.
Can you let us know please if there is an ETA on the deliberations of the Privacy team?
I do not have a definite ETA, but I am hoping before the end of the week.
Ditto on the spending. I've got $35 that I want to spend, so it's a shame. If they run a good deal on dilithium while recap packs are up, I'll buy that too, if they can get this resolved by then.
I'll just add my voice. No more spending and no more ad-warps until there can be clear and believable assurances about the security of our data. Once, I felt good about spending a little money on the game (monthly cards, campaigns, the occasional other purchase) because I felt I was supporting the continuation of a game I enjoyed and supporting the creation of new content for the game. I was OK with the ad-warps, because I figured they could use the revenue and "watching" a few ads didn't seem so bad. The offer wall, though, not only raises security and privacy concerns (some of which may have been there all along, but were easier to ignore previously), but also seems ethically questionable. Linking to surveys that request private information that NO ONE should be giving to any stranger on the internet is not something that any trustworthy organization would do.
@Shan - Not wishing to cause you any further personal grief on this matter, but this state of affairs is now not only worrying, it is also starting to anger.
Can you let us know please if there is an ETA on the deliberations of the Privacy team?
I do not have a definite ETA, but I am hoping before the end of the week.
Frak, so much for Chakotay’s 5th star. And my monthly card. And my interest in playing your game. You move fast when necessary. Wake up & stop the hemorrhaging.
EDIT: The statement addressed some, but not all, of my concerns about consent and data harvesting. I will use up most of my accumulated resources between now and next Wednesday, then reevaluate my position. LLAP
"In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
Disclaimer:
1. I am not a lawyer and as such this post does not constitute legal advice.
2. Information source is a UK government site and is relevant to me as a UK resident - may or may not be the same for you
3. Interpretation is mine, applies to me by my logic - it may or may not fit your specific case. End Disclaimer
My Understanding:
1. TP/WRG is the controller and processor with whom I have an agreement (i.e. TOS to play their game)
2. In playing this game any data collected & processed by TP/WRG or its partners is the responsibility of TP/WRG, even that which is passed to or collected by any third party they further engage with.
3. I have a right under UK law to request details on what data is collected and how it is used
4. TP has 30 days from the receipt of such request to to respond with information
Most Importantly, I have the legal right to:
1. Be informed if my personal data is being used
2. Get my data deleted
3. Limit how the Organisation uses my data
4. To Object to the use of my data
5. Raise a concern about how my data is being used
My Issues / Questions :
1. I appreciate Legal team needs time - but an official "damage control or holding" response could & should have been made by now.
Again, here I will say, @Shan's work is much appreciated, but she has made it clear, her response is to keep dialogue open & continuing and is not the legal update from the organisation
2. Surely when TP / WRG entered into a legal & commercial engagement with IronSource, there would have been some due diligence and they should already have the information to hand
If this is not the case, then we should all be really worried, as TP has the ability to gain access to a lot of information from your mobile devices and if they are not clear on the fact that they are a data controller and now also a processor.......
3. I would like to know exactly what information IronSource is able to collect and is collecting from my device if I do not use the wall
4. I would like to know exactly what information IronSource is able to collect and is collecting from my device if I use the wall
5. I would like to know what TP/WRG & IronSource are doing with my data and to whom else they are providing it.
What I will be doing: 1. Raising an official GDPR ticket, with some very specific questions. I would encourage you to do the same if this applies to you
2. Based on the answers to #3, 4, & 5 above I will send an official request to delete my data
Edits:
- Spelling corrections - thank you @Bylo Band for pointing these out!
- Raised GDPR based ticket on 1st July 2020
I do not have a definite ETA, but I am hoping before the end of the week.
@Shan, I appreciate your effort and I hate to be that guy....but i have no choice at this point.....got to ask:
Does your reponse mean that TP is officially asking for till the end of this week to repond to the player community's request for infromation regarding what, how and when our data is being accessed & used by by both TP and its commercial third party partner IronSource?
My fleet lost two more members overnight, three since the offer wall began a week ago. On top of the five we lost over the ~2 months beforehand that we simply haven't been able to replace (which is unprecedented for our fleet, we've been nearly constantly at a full 50 for years before TP took over), it's not looking good for our fleet. We're just a simple, casual quiet fleet, but it's still sad to watch it begin to fall apart.
Thank you, everyone who has submitted tickets in complaint, everyone who has contacted the gaming press to let them know, everyone who has shut down resources or stopped spending in protest. Thank you for actually doing something. It's a stark contrast to the apathy on the developer side that has slowly and needlessly dragged this game down over the past year or so.
I would like to see more rewards in the offer wall that are downloading another game or downloading another game and playing to a certain level rather than all the surveys wanting information. Or at least a blend of the two.
While I admit it's not entirely logical, I find it telling there is no official message in support of wall. The only reason to not simply say "the game and wall are safe" would be if they were entirely aware it would be a lie that would open them up to legal challenge. The silence speaks louder to either being oblivious or indifferent. Neither of these potentials is reassuring. If they had something good to say, I'm sure they would have said it.
I totally agree. The longer that we are being made to wait for any official response, the more it looks like we were never intended to have any concerns about TP/WRG affiliating themselves (and us!) with such a untrustworthy company. For shame, TP/WRG! You should know that there are too many very intelligent, tech savy and observant people playing STT to just hope that we don't notice something like the Offer Wall has the potential for some very serious security concerns.
We are on day 5 for some of the threads about this and the longer that we are made to wait for an answer, the more it appears that TP/WRG holds it's customers in very low regard. Show us that you do value us. At least as much as you value our money.
As others have said, I also think that the answers to at least some of our concerns should have already been known BEFORE we even started posting them.
[DCC] bebe
Privileged to be Admiral of the Great Fleet
Dilithium Causes Cancer, maxed Starbase level 134
Featuring photonic flee free holodecks and
All you can drink Neelix's Even Better Than Coffee Substitute!
I'll just add my voice. No more spending and no more ad-warps until there can be clear and believable assurances about the security of our data. Once, I felt good about spending a little money on the game (monthly cards, campaigns, the occasional other purchase) because I felt I was supporting the continuation of a game I enjoyed and supporting the creation of new content for the game. I was OK with the ad-warps, because I figured they could use the revenue and "watching" a few ads didn't seem so bad. The offer wall, though, not only raises security and privacy concerns (some of which may have been there all along, but were easier to ignore previously), but also seems ethically questionable. Linking to surveys that request private information that NO ONE should be giving to any stranger on the internet is not something that any trustworthy organization would do.
This sums up my feelings on the current issues perfectly. Sadly I have also stopped spending until we know exactly what is happening. The minimum TP should be doing is providing an opt out option to the wall and assurances about the security of our data.
I will not have an update this morning. I do not know when I will have more information to share, I hope before the end of the week.
I'm afraid I've had to cease all spending on the game until we know what the situation is. As well as reverting to the steam version of the game. I do hope this can be resolved sooner rather than later.
Ditto on the spending. I've got $35 that I want to spend, so it's a shame. If they run a good deal on dilithium while recap packs are up, I'll buy that too, if they can get this resolved by then.
Ditto.
No more monthly dilithium cards.
No more Campaigns.
No more event packs.
Not another € until this is resolved satisfactorily.
Answers to one of my earlier posts on this thread suggested money was the main reason TP have done this.
TP will now have to determine whose money is more valuable to them, in the short- and long-term.
Same here. Ive also decided that i will refrain from watching any ads for the double up/free spin. Drop in the bucket, but they will not be making any revenue off of me until this is dealt with.
I also stopped with the ads. It's unfortunate, but I've stopped watching the clock and setting timers. I've become less shackled to my phone.
Kind of amazing. A few weeks ago when I was expressing my fleets displeasure with the game and talking about boycotts I was told I was being too negative and that I was going to break the game. Amazing how mobs can shift directions so quickly. Anyway...
My Issue with this offer wall is the offers are just not worth persuing. If I have to spend weeks playing a game I don't want to play just to get 500ish Dil Whats the point? That's not a fair exchange. This is a long standing problem with this game. Peoples Money and Time are not valued enough by this game period.
Not going to comment on the Data Protection stuff here. Comment moderated. ~Shan[color]
Yes it could be - but then why not use a reputable URL shortner? Um, i dunno, like the one they use in the game announcement emails?
Interesting is it not, that they opted to use a different method and not one that is tried and tested?
In s/w development we prefer to use proven code, objects, functions, classes and integration processes for production systems.....so it is odd they would use a different & low reputation URL shortner
iam not interested in this offer wall. The privacy problems are indeed **tsk tsk**! Please remove that feature. I really like datacore.app! And without this site the game is not the same! Think you lose more money in the long term with having such a **tsk tsk** feature that upsets your players!
I'm afraid I'm going to pull out of a game I love and support this week, an active, fun and very supportive international fleet I very much enjoy, and a community I enjoy, because I very genuinely feel used, my trust abused and my concerns unheard. This is not a poke @Shan who is probably hating this as much as anyone here - this is firmly at TPs door.
Tilting Point have offices in Barcelona, Spain. Is there anyone from Spain here familiar with GPDR regs there and how to institute and direct a complaint from another EU member?
Tilting Point have offices in Barcelona, Spain. Is there anyone from Spain here familiar with GPDR regs there and how to institute and direct a complaint from another EU member?
I believe that right now location etc maybe not relevant because if you open a ticket with support, they'll tell you (at least they told me) they follow GDPR. So if you make a request or a complaint, they'll be obliged to follow the law and deal with it. So I would suggest you do that.
I have a formal GDPR request in with support and I'm waiting on a response.
Tilting Point have offices in Barcelona, Spain. Is there anyone from Spain here familiar with GPDR regs there and how to institute and direct a complaint from another EU member?
I believe that right now location etc maybe not relevant because if you open a ticket with support, they'll tell you (at least they told me) they follow GDPR. So if you make a request or a complaint, they'll be obliged to follow the law and deal with it. So I would suggest you do that.
I have a formal GDPR request in with support and I'm waiting on a response.
Thanks for your reply - much appreciated. I'll certainly do as you suggest.
However I would still want the option of sanction if (when?) that approach fails, hence the specific request about Spain, since as I understand it, that sanction would be brought under Catalan/Spanish law.
Can I ask you to consider sharing the replies from Support to your request with the Community?
Can I ask you to consider sharing the replies from Support to your request with the Community?
Yup, I've posted a slightly paraphrased version in this thread up above. I have it in my mind that sharing responses from support is against the rules of the forum so I'm also trying to respect that.
I'll certainly be posting whatever I can when I get the next response.
I can't speak to the specific Spanish request, hopefully someone else can
Can I ask you to consider sharing the replies from Support to your request with the Community?
Yup, I've posted a slightly paraphrased version in this thread up above. I have it in my mind that sharing responses from support is against the rules of the forum so I'm also trying to respect that.
I'll certainly be posting whatever I can when I get the next response.
I can't speak to the specific Spanish request, hopefully someone else can
im not too clued up on how my info gets taken from my phone and where it goes. i didnt even consider that was happening while playing this game until i read this thread. the sisko1 said he got like 5k dil for free and i want that too lol. i scrolled through the offers and saw a survey but then i remembered this thread and kind of got paranoid. i dont want to download and play another game; i only play timelines so i thought doin a survey would be the easiest. what kind of questions do they ask and are there risks to the private info on my phone like credit card numbers ?
im not too clued up on how my info gets taken from my phone and where it goes. i didnt even consider that was happening while playing this game until i read this thread. the sisko1 said he got like 5k dil for free and i want that too lol. i scrolled through the offers and saw a survey but then i remembered this thread and kind of got paranoid. i dont want to download and play another game; i only play timelines so i thought doin a survey would be the easiest. what kind of questions do they ask and are there risks to the private info on my phone like credit card numbers ?
The surveys are the worst from what I heard, I would suggest to stay clear of them.
There's no such thing as a "reputable URL shortener".
That evokes another misbegotten saying: The only way to stop a bad guy with a url shortener is...
Well, you get the idea.
Respectfully I disagree. In many of my past & current work place we use commercial URL shortners.
These usually require a paid subscription and have guidlines and requirements that help / allow them to maintain thier internet reputation and not get blocked, put on spam lists etc. by ISP's and Anti-Spyware and Malware software.
Also it is possible with relative ease to host a URL shortner on your own domain, with code controlled by you - most Dev Teams know how to do this, especially if they have WWW / server side coding capabilties.
Which is why I wonder why they chose to use a well documented poor reputation link shortner.
My point was that any URL shortener can be used by ne'er-do-wells. I stand by that. URL shortener services have come a long way since the early days, but people still use them to hide sketchy destinations. Therefore, the place to tighten up your security isn't in your choice of shorteners, but in other protective mechanisms, such as practicing safe browsing habits. One of those habits is hovering over the URL--but if someone is using a shortener, I take a hard pass and maybe Google another route to the legit content.
im not too clued up on how my info gets taken from my phone and where it goes. i didnt even consider that was happening while playing this game until i read this thread. the sisko1 said he got like 5k dil for free and i want that too lol. i scrolled through the offers and saw a survey but then i remembered this thread and kind of got paranoid. i dont want to download and play another game; i only play timelines so i thought doin a survey would be the easiest. what kind of questions do they ask and are there risks to the private info on my phone like credit card numbers ?
I’ve tried replying to this comment in full several times but keep getting “there was a problem processing your request”. Short answer: the surveys ask for way more info than you should ever give people over the Internet.
I almost stopped playing on my phone when we were getting all of those trashy gambling ads. The only reason I initially gave Timelines a chance was because it did not feel like all those other tacky gacha games. The Offer Wall is out of sight out of mind for me, but I may reconsider playing the game if I hear predatory things about it.
Why does it have to be so grand? Can you not simply tweak the original ad system?
Comments
the offer wall doesnt bother me. its just not a feature ill play. however if the offer wall is sending my info or looking at my phones contents then i dont like the offer wall
I do not have a definite ETA, but I am hoping before the end of the week.
Thank you.
Frak, so much for Chakotay’s 5th star. And my monthly card. And my interest in playing your game. You move fast when necessary. Wake up & stop the hemorrhaging.
EDIT: The statement addressed some, but not all, of my concerns about consent and data harvesting. I will use up most of my accumulated resources between now and next Wednesday, then reevaluate my position. LLAP
1. I am not a lawyer and as such this post does not constitute legal advice.
2. Information source is a UK government site and is relevant to me as a UK resident - may or may not be the same for you
3. Interpretation is mine, applies to me by my logic - it may or may not fit your specific case.
End Disclaimer
Information Source:
1. https://ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/
2. https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protection/
My Understanding:
1. TP/WRG is the controller and processor with whom I have an agreement (i.e. TOS to play their game)
2. In playing this game any data collected & processed by TP/WRG or its partners is the responsibility of TP/WRG, even that which is passed to or collected by any third party they further engage with.
3. I have a right under UK law to request details on what data is collected and how it is used
4. TP has 30 days from the receipt of such request to to respond with information
Most Importantly, I have the legal right to:
1. Be informed if my personal data is being used
2. Get my data deleted
3. Limit how the Organisation uses my data
4. To Object to the use of my data
5. Raise a concern about how my data is being used
My Issues / Questions :
1. I appreciate Legal team needs time - but an official "damage control or holding" response could & should have been made by now.
Again, here I will say, @Shan's work is much appreciated, but she has made it clear, her response is to keep dialogue open & continuing and is not the legal update from the organisation
2. Surely when TP / WRG entered into a legal & commercial engagement with IronSource, there would have been some due diligence and they should already have the information to hand
If this is not the case, then we should all be really worried, as TP has the ability to gain access to a lot of information from your mobile devices and if they are not clear on the fact that they are a data controller and now also a processor.......
3. I would like to know exactly what information IronSource is able to collect and is collecting from my device if I do not use the wall
4. I would like to know exactly what information IronSource is able to collect and is collecting from my device if I use the wall
5. I would like to know what TP/WRG & IronSource are doing with my data and to whom else they are providing it.
What I will be doing:
1. Raising an official GDPR ticket, with some very specific questions. I would encourage you to do the same if this applies to you
2. Based on the answers to #3, 4, & 5 above I will send an official request to delete my data
Edits:
- Spelling corrections - thank you @Bylo Band for pointing these out!
- Raised GDPR based ticket on 1st July 2020
@Shan, I appreciate your effort and I hate to be that guy....but i have no choice at this point.....got to ask:
Does your reponse mean that TP is officially asking for till the end of this week to repond to the player community's request for infromation regarding what, how and when our data is being accessed & used by by both TP and its commercial third party partner IronSource?
Thank you, everyone who has submitted tickets in complaint, everyone who has contacted the gaming press to let them know, everyone who has shut down resources or stopped spending in protest. Thank you for actually doing something. It's a stark contrast to the apathy on the developer side that has slowly and needlessly dragged this game down over the past year or so.
I totally agree. The longer that we are being made to wait for any official response, the more it looks like we were never intended to have any concerns about TP/WRG affiliating themselves (and us!) with such a untrustworthy company. For shame, TP/WRG! You should know that there are too many very intelligent, tech savy and observant people playing STT to just hope that we don't notice something like the Offer Wall has the potential for some very serious security concerns.
We are on day 5 for some of the threads about this and the longer that we are made to wait for an answer, the more it appears that TP/WRG holds it's customers in very low regard. Show us that you do value us. At least as much as you value our money.
As others have said, I also think that the answers to at least some of our concerns should have already been known BEFORE we even started posting them.
Privileged to be Admiral of the Great Fleet
Dilithium Causes Cancer, maxed Starbase level 134
Featuring photonic flee free holodecks and
All you can drink Neelix's Even Better Than Coffee Substitute!
This sums up my feelings on the current issues perfectly. Sadly I have also stopped spending until we know exactly what is happening. The minimum TP should be doing is providing an opt out option to the wall and assurances about the security of our data.
Kind of amazing. A few weeks ago when I was expressing my fleets displeasure with the game and talking about boycotts I was told I was being too negative and that I was going to break the game. Amazing how mobs can shift directions so quickly. Anyway...
My Issue with this offer wall is the offers are just not worth persuing. If I have to spend weeks playing a game I don't want to play just to get 500ish Dil Whats the point? That's not a fair exchange. This is a long standing problem with this game. Peoples Money and Time are not valued enough by this game period.
Not going to comment on the Data Protection stuff here. Comment moderated. ~Shan[color]
- clicked on the offer wall and closed it
- Popup in DIL store with more information button, clicked on that
- Boom > Denied!!
My broadband provider considers the page with more information to be hosted on a site that is know for malware and phishing!
Bit.do is just a URL shortener.
Yes it could be - but then why not use a reputable URL shortner? Um, i dunno, like the one they use in the game announcement emails?
Interesting is it not, that they opted to use a different method and not one that is tried and tested?
In s/w development we prefer to use proven code, objects, functions, classes and integration processes for production systems.....so it is odd they would use a different & low reputation URL shortner
iam not interested in this offer wall. The privacy problems are indeed **tsk tsk**! Please remove that feature. I really like datacore.app! And without this site the game is not the same! Think you lose more money in the long term with having such a **tsk tsk** feature that upsets your players!
Tilting Point have offices in Barcelona, Spain. Is there anyone from Spain here familiar with GPDR regs there and how to institute and direct a complaint from another EU member?
I believe that right now location etc maybe not relevant because if you open a ticket with support, they'll tell you (at least they told me) they follow GDPR. So if you make a request or a complaint, they'll be obliged to follow the law and deal with it. So I would suggest you do that.
I have a formal GDPR request in with support and I'm waiting on a response.
Thanks for your reply - much appreciated. I'll certainly do as you suggest.
However I would still want the option of sanction if (when?) that approach fails, hence the specific request about Spain, since as I understand it, that sanction would be brought under Catalan/Spanish law.
Can I ask you to consider sharing the replies from Support to your request with the Community?
Yup, I've posted a slightly paraphrased version in this thread up above. I have it in my mind that sharing responses from support is against the rules of the forum so I'm also trying to respect that.
I'll certainly be posting whatever I can when I get the next response.
I can't speak to the specific Spanish request, hopefully someone else can
Excellent points all - thank you.
The surveys are the worst from what I heard, I would suggest to stay clear of them.
That evokes another misbegotten saying: The only way to stop a bad guy with a url shortener is...
Well, you get the idea.
Respectfully I disagree. In many of my past & current work place we use commercial URL shortners.
These usually require a paid subscription and have guidlines and requirements that help / allow them to maintain thier internet reputation and not get blocked, put on spam lists etc. by ISP's and Anti-Spyware and Malware software.
A quick guide on commercially available URL shortners: https://blog.rebrandly.com/the-6-best-url-shorteners-and-how-to-choose-the-right-one-for-you/
Also it is possible with relative ease to host a URL shortner on your own domain, with code controlled by you - most Dev Teams know how to do this, especially if they have WWW / server side coding capabilties.
Which is why I wonder why they chose to use a well documented poor reputation link shortner.
I’ve tried replying to this comment in full several times but keep getting “there was a problem processing your request”. Short answer: the surveys ask for way more info than you should ever give people over the Internet.
Why does it have to be so grand? Can you not simply tweak the original ad system?