So i asume the daily requirement for 40 people to do all dailies to get ism will be dropped.
Or are you going to punish people who had nothing to do with this newest 'mistake' of WRG .
LOL I’ve had this game for less than a week and I catch a ban for mashing the button that says to mash it again? Hoo boy.
Star Trek Timelines player base, circa 2021, colorized.
Welcome to Funland where it's always time for fun....
Also works for the future of the game. You can’t blame the user when the developer screws up. You can’t punish innocent people (anyone in a squad or fleet with a banned player) for your own mistakes. Well, you can. But then your product or service won’t last long.
"Violations of computing, system or network security may result in civil or criminal liability. We will investigate occurrences and may involve, and cooperate with, law enforcement authorities in prosecuting any user or users who are involved in such violations. You are prohibited from violating or attempting to violate the security and integrity of Tilting Point Services, including, without limitation, the following:"
yadayadayada.... exploit... yadayadayada.
So according to the TOS, in case of violation, we're subject to criminal prosecution, and not(!!) to account bans.
@TP
I therefore demand that you lift my account ban, and press charges with the police instead.
but did you violate those items in bold above? All that was done was a "feature" available (due to poor coding & QA) in the game was used.
@Princess Trista, sorry, but when customer service messes up, customer service gets the blame for customer service messing up.
An apology and reinstatement for my friends who were banned would go a long way toward mending the broken bridge, but until then, the anger is directed squarely at the person responsible for the customer service error.
I don't want to quit playing the game, but TP is forcing my hand here. All I'm asking for is basic ethics.
Nah, you don’t scream at the CS reps on the phone. You tell them why you’re upset and remember they didn’t make the call.
Trust me when I say that every word I've written was in the calmest possible tone. It doesn't change my anger and frustration level. I'm not screaming. I'm plainly stating that this decision is unfair and as a result, I will be leaving permanently unless TP apologizes and reinstates my fleetmates. It's a simple matter of them deciding whether or not they want customers.
"Violations of computing, system or network security may result in civil or criminal liability. We will investigate occurrences and may involve, and cooperate with, law enforcement authorities in prosecuting any user or users who are involved in such violations. You are prohibited from violating or attempting to violate the security and integrity of Tilting Point Services, including, without limitation, the following:"
yadayadayada.... exploit... yadayadayada.
So according to the TOS, in case of violation, we're subject to criminal prosecution, and not(!!) to account bans.
@TP
I therefore demand that you lift my account ban, and press charges with the police instead.
but did you violate those items in bold above? All that was done was a "feature" available (due to poor coding & QA) in the game was used.
The whole point is that that appears to be their basis for the ban and resource purging. They are claiming players "exploited a bug". There was a big, yellow button that clearly said "BUY AGAIN". If they are claiming people violated the TOS, shouldn't they follow the TOS in response? Otherwise, it is like rain on your wedding day.....
Also it said "buy" - I heard from someone that was thinking you got one free and then paid something (merits, credits, dil) for others. Ben showed polestar packs in the portal on the demo. It sounded like buying was going to be in the game. It's not our fault they forgot to charge us.
"Violations of computing, system or network security may result in civil or criminal liability. We will investigate occurrences and may involve, and cooperate with, law enforcement authorities in prosecuting any user or users who are involved in such violations. You are prohibited from violating or attempting to violate the security and integrity of Tilting Point Services, including, without limitation, the following:"
yadayadayada.... exploit... yadayadayada.
So according to the TOS, in case of violation, we're subject to criminal prosecution, and not(!!) to account bans.
@TP
I therefore demand that you lift my account ban, and press charges with the police instead.
but did you violate those items in bold above? All that was done was a "feature" available (due to poor coding & QA) in the game was used.
I don't care whether I violated the terms. I merely demand that the proper action is taken, according to the TOS, which is criminal prosecution.
It's then up to the prosecutor to decide whether I've committed any felony. (Their decision should be pretty obvious though.)
Punishing someone else for the company’s own apparent incompetence... almost inconceivable. I wouldn’t have bothered reading any small print. I would have just tapped “buy again” thinking there was some cost involved. I “zombie push” so many buttons in this game, and I am sure others do the same...no malice intended.
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I'm the first person to defend TP/WRG, often to my own detriment, when the forums get their torches and pitchforks out unfairly. This is not one of those times.
I'm sure there were some people who knew full well what they were doing to exploit a glaringly obvious bug in the code. They probably clicked the button well into the triple digits, hoping to maliciously take advantage. As I'm sure is listed in the Terms & Conditions, this is not allowed and they can, and should be punished. They deserve the bans they received.
However, it is blindingly obvious that most of those being punished did not do this. Maybe they clicked it a couple of extra times. But there was clearly no malicious intent involved in the majority of the cases. These players do not deserve to be banned.
Take away the excess resources gained. That's fair. Give them a warning, if you feel that is absolutely necessary. But banning those players for 72 hours, during Mega event no less, is ridiculous.
You are not only punishing these players for an honest mistake. You are also punishing their squad and fleet mates. Not just with regards to the events, but the completion of dailies by 40 players in order to get the new resources for crew retrieval.
So, not only are you arguably punishing people who didn't intentionally do anything wrong, you are literally punishing people who absolutely did NOTHINGwrong. This is BS, plain and simple.
I'm not sure what the bloody hell is going on with your testing procedures, quality control and oversight, but these types of mistakes are becoming the norm, not the exception to the rule. There needs to be some real accountability taken by TP/WRG. Enough is enough. I've been extremely understanding, when others have not, but even I'm done with the excuses.
Not only should whoever is responsible for these failings be held responsible, but you all need to do some serious soul searching as to how this situation has been handled. There is absolutely no excuse for penalising almost the entire player base, as stated above. Whether it's directly via bans, or indirectly via losing our fleet mates for 3 days, this is inexcusable.
You had an opportunity to ride a pretty decent wave of good will with the new feature. A lot of people were happy because of it. You've flushed all of that down the toilet with these actions. I understand a message needed to be sent to those who intentionally exploited this bug, but talk about overkill.
I can not understand why you've decided this was the hill you were ready to die on. I've often thought most of the "this game is going to die" talk was overstated, but this might legitimately kill it. The final nail in a coffin being built, slowly but surely.
Your company made the mistake that led to it being exploited, yet it seems like innocent players are being held accountable for it far more than any one directly responsible for it on your staff. Again, let me be clear — this is not acceptable.
This is the most united this forum has been in a long time. Congrats TP/WRG. Way to seriously drop the ball in a way I never thought possible.
I'm the first person to defend TP/WRG, often to my own detriment, when the forums get their torches and pitchforks out unfairly. This is not one of those times.
I'm sure there were some people who knew full well what they were doing to exploit a glaringly obvious bug in the code. They probably clicked the button well into the triple digits, hoping to maliciously take advantage. As I'm sure is listed in the Terms & Conditions, this is not allowed and they can, and should be punished. They deserve the bans they received.
However, it is blindingly obvious that most of those being punished did not do this. Maybe they clicked it a couple of extra times. But there was clearly no malicious intent involved in the majority of the cases. These players do not deserve to be banned.
Take away the excess resources gained. That's fair. Give them a warning, if you feel that is absolutely necessary. But banning those players for 72 hours, during Mega event no less, is ridiculous.
You are not only punishing these players for an honest mistake. You are also punishing their squad and fleet mates. Not just with regards to the events, but the completion of dailies by 40 players in order to get the new resources for crew retrieval.
So, not only are you arguably punishing people who didn't intentionally do anything wrong, you are literally punishing people who absolutely did NOTHINGwrong. This is BS, plain and simple.
I'm not sure what the bloody hell is going on with your testing procedures, quality control and oversight, but these types of mistakes are becoming the norm, not the exception to the rule. There needs to be some real accountability taken by TP/WRG. Enough is enough. I've been extremely understanding, when others have not, but even I'm done with the excuses.
Not only should whoever is responsible for these failings be held responsible, but you all need to do some serious soul searching as to how this situation has been handled. There is absolutely no excuse for penalising almost the entire player base, as stated above. Whether it's directly via bans, or indirectly via losing our fleet mates for 3 days, this is inexcusable.
You had an opportunity to ride a pretty decent wave of good will with the new feature. A lot of people were happy because of it. You've flushed all of that down the toilet with these actions. I understand a message needed to be sent to those who intentionally exploited this bug, but talk about overkill.
I can not understand why you've decided this was the hill you were ready to die on. I've often thought most of the "this game is going to die" talk was overstated, but this might legitimately kill it. The final nail in a coffin being built, slowly but surely.
Your company made the mistake that led to it being exploited, yet it seems like innocent players are being held accountable for it far more than any one directly responsible for it on your staff. Again, let me be clear — this is not acceptable.
This is the most united this forum has been in a long time. Congrats TP/WRG. Way to seriously drop the ball in a way I never thought possible.
There is nothing in their TOS justifying this as that “Buy Now” button completely changed the parameters of the offer, and thus, no player was at fault even if they clicked it a million and one times. This is entirely on TP, but instead of admitting their mess up and rectifying the situation, they breach their own contract with players, ban them for three days, and strip them of items like ISM they had from before the pack going live, ultimately sealing the game’s fate.
There are three ways to do something; the right way, the wrong way, and the Janeway.
You are not only punishing these players for an honest mistake. You are also punishing their squad and fleet mates. Not just with regards to the events, but the completion of dailies by 40 players in order to get the new resources for crew retrieval.
Better that a thousand innocents shall suffer and all that Jazz. TP read Les Mis and came away with the conclusion that Javert was the hero.
I'm the first person to defend TP/WRG, often to my own detriment, when the forums get their torches and pitchforks out unfairly. This is not one of those times.
I'm sure there were some people who knew full well what they were doing to exploit a glaringly obvious bug in the code. They probably clicked the button well into the triple digits, hoping to maliciously take advantage. As I'm sure is listed in the Terms & Conditions, this is not allowed and they can, and should be punished. They deserve the bans they received.
However, it is blindingly obvious that most of those being punished did not do this. Maybe they clicked it a couple of extra times. But there was clearly no malicious intent involved in the majority of the cases. These players do not deserve to be banned.
Take away the excess resources gained. That's fair. Give them a warning, if you feel that is absolutely necessary. But banning those players for 72 hours, during Mega event no less, is ridiculous.
You are not only punishing these players for an honest mistake. You are also punishing their squad and fleet mates. Not just with regards to the events, but the completion of dailies by 40 players in order to get the new resources for crew retrieval.
So, not only are you arguably punishing people who didn't intentionally do anything wrong, you are literally punishing people who absolutely did NOTHINGwrong. This is BS, plain and simple.
I'm not sure what the bloody hell is going on with your testing procedures, quality control and oversight, but these types of mistakes are becoming the norm, not the exception to the rule. There needs to be some real accountability taken by TP/WRG. Enough is enough. I've been extremely understanding, when others have not, but even I'm done with the excuses.
Not only should whoever is responsible for these failings be held responsible, but you all need to do some serious soul searching as to how this situation has been handled. There is absolutely no excuse for penalising almost the entire player base, as stated above. Whether it's directly via bans, or indirectly via losing our fleet mates for 3 days, this is inexcusable.
You had an opportunity to ride a pretty decent wave of good will with the new feature. A lot of people were happy because of it. You've flushed all of that down the toilet with these actions. I understand a message needed to be sent to those who intentionally exploited this bug, but talk about overkill.
I can not understand why you've decided this was the hill you were ready to die on. I've often thought most of the "this game is going to die" talk was overstated, but this might legitimately kill it. The final nail in a coffin being built, slowly but surely.
Your company made the mistake that led to it being exploited, yet it seems like innocent players are being held accountable for it far more than any one directly responsible for it on your staff. Again, let me be clear — this is not acceptable.
This is the most united this forum has been in a long time. Congrats TP/WRG. Way to seriously drop the ball in a way I never thought possible.
There is nothing in their TOS justifying this as that “Buy Now” button completely changed the parameters of the offer, and thus, no player was at fault even if they clicked it a million and one times. This is entirely on TP, but instead of admitting their mess up and rectifying the situation, they breach their own contract with players, ban them for three days, and strip them of items like ISM they had from before the pack going live, ultimately sealing the game’s fate.
Most TOS have a clause in them that bans intentional exploitation of obvious bugs, along with puntitive measures for doing so.
As for the rest of your post, did you miss that 90% of my post was completely in support of the majority of what you just said?
You are not only punishing these players for an honest mistake. You are also punishing their squad and fleet mates. Not just with regards to the events, but the completion of dailies by 40 players in order to get the new resources for crew retrieval.
Better that a thousand innocents shall suffer and all that Jazz. TP read Les Mis and came away with the conclusion that Javert was the hero.
I'm the first person to defend TP/WRG, often to my own detriment, when the forums get their torches and pitchforks out unfairly. This is not one of those times.
I'm sure there were some people who knew full well what they were doing to exploit a glaringly obvious bug in the code. They probably clicked the button well into the triple digits, hoping to maliciously take advantage. As I'm sure is listed in the Terms & Conditions, this is not allowed and they can, and should be punished. They deserve the bans they received.
However, it is blindingly obvious that most of those being punished did not do this. Maybe they clicked it a couple of extra times. But there was clearly no malicious intent involved in the majority of the cases. These players do not deserve to be banned.
Take away the excess resources gained. That's fair. Give them a warning, if you feel that is absolutely necessary. But banning those players for 72 hours, during Mega event no less, is ridiculous.
You are not only punishing these players for an honest mistake. You are also punishing their squad and fleet mates. Not just with regards to the events, but the completion of dailies by 40 players in order to get the new resources for crew retrieval.
So, not only are you arguably punishing people who didn't intentionally do anything wrong, you are literally punishing people who absolutely did NOTHINGwrong. This is BS, plain and simple.
I'm not sure what the bloody hell is going on with your testing procedures, quality control and oversight, but these types of mistakes are becoming the norm, not the exception to the rule. There needs to be some real accountability taken by TP/WRG. Enough is enough. I've been extremely understanding, when others have not, but even I'm done with the excuses.
Not only should whoever is responsible for these failings be held responsible, but you all need to do some serious soul searching as to how this situation has been handled. There is absolutely no excuse for penalising almost the entire player base, as stated above. Whether it's directly via bans, or indirectly via losing our fleet mates for 3 days, this is inexcusable.
You had an opportunity to ride a pretty decent wave of good will with the new feature. A lot of people were happy because of it. You've flushed all of that down the toilet with these actions. I understand a message needed to be sent to those who intentionally exploited this bug, but talk about overkill.
I can not understand why you've decided this was the hill you were ready to die on. I've often thought most of the "this game is going to die" talk was overstated, but this might legitimately kill it. The final nail in a coffin being built, slowly but surely.
Your company made the mistake that led to it being exploited, yet it seems like innocent players are being held accountable for it far more than any one directly responsible for it on your staff. Again, let me be clear — this is not acceptable.
This is the most united this forum has been in a long time. Congrats TP/WRG. Way to seriously drop the ball in a way I never thought possible.
This pretty much exactly sums up my feelings. And to combine this with what @eXo | SilverRose (retired) said earlier, speaking as somebody who in the past has had the mentality of "I don't care how many times I need to pull this pack to get THE THING, I'm not stopping until I get THE THING," I completely understand how a lot of folks like myself, who have literally thousands of every currency saved up, would see a "Buy More" button and just go HAM on it trying to get THE THING, especially for folks with huge dilithium reserves. I think that describes most of the players involved here and punishing them and their squad/fleetmates by association not only looks like a misread of the 'letter of the law', but also feels like a large move away from 'the spirit of the law'.
I am glad this happened on a Thursday and not over the weekend, I very much hope that folks return to the office Friday morning and do something about this, because nothing about this response passes muster with me, and if it bothers an alleged "white knight", I think it is safe to say it went way too far.
-EDIT-
I remembered after the fact that Silver prefers to be tagged when referenced, apologies.
I'm the first person to defend TP/WRG, often to my own detriment, when the forums get their torches and pitchforks out unfairly. This is not one of those times.
I'm sure there were some people who knew full well what they were doing to exploit a glaringly obvious bug in the code. They probably clicked the button well into the triple digits, hoping to maliciously take advantage. As I'm sure is listed in the Terms & Conditions, this is not allowed and they can, and should be punished. They deserve the bans they received.
However, it is blindingly obvious that most of those being punished did not do this. Maybe they clicked it a couple of extra times. But there was clearly no malicious intent involved in the majority of the cases. These players do not deserve to be banned.
Take away the excess resources gained. That's fair. Give them a warning, if you feel that is absolutely necessary. But banning those players for 72 hours, during Mega event no less, is ridiculous.
You are not only punishing these players for an honest mistake. You are also punishing their squad and fleet mates. Not just with regards to the events, but the completion of dailies by 40 players in order to get the new resources for crew retrieval.
So, not only are you arguably punishing people who didn't intentionally do anything wrong, you are literally punishing people who absolutely did NOTHINGwrong. This is BS, plain and simple.
I'm not sure what the bloody hell is going on with your testing procedures, quality control and oversight, but these types of mistakes are becoming the norm, not the exception to the rule. There needs to be some real accountability taken by TP/WRG. Enough is enough. I've been extremely understanding, when others have not, but even I'm done with the excuses.
Not only should whoever is responsible for these failings be held responsible, but you all need to do some serious soul searching as to how this situation has been handled. There is absolutely no excuse for penalising almost the entire player base, as stated above. Whether it's directly via bans, or indirectly via losing our fleet mates for 3 days, this is inexcusable.
You had an opportunity to ride a pretty decent wave of good will with the new feature. A lot of people were happy because of it. You've flushed all of that down the toilet with these actions. I understand a message needed to be sent to those who intentionally exploited this bug, but talk about overkill.
I can not understand why you've decided this was the hill you were ready to die on. I've often thought most of the "this game is going to die" talk was overstated, but this might legitimately kill it. The final nail in a coffin being built, slowly but surely.
Your company made the mistake that led to it being exploited, yet it seems like innocent players are being held accountable for it far more than any one directly responsible for it on your staff. Again, let me be clear — this is not acceptable.
This is the most united this forum has been in a long time. Congrats TP/WRG. Way to seriously drop the ball in a way I never thought possible.
This pretty much exactly sums up my feelings. And to combine this with what @eXo | SilverRose (retired) said earlier, speaking as somebody who in the past has had the mentality of "I don't care how many times I need to pull this pack to get THE THING, I'm not stopping until I get THE THING," I completely understand how a lot of folks like myself, who have literally thousands of every currency saved up, would see a "Buy More" button and just go HAM on it trying to get THE THING, especially for folks with huge dilithium reserves. I think that describes most of the players involved here and punishing them and their squad/fleetmates by association not only looks like a misread of the 'letter of the law', but also feels like a large move away from 'the spirit of the law'.
I am glad this happened on a Thursday and not over the weekend, I very much hope that folks return to the office Friday morning and do something about this, because nothing about this response passes muster with me, and if it bothers an alleged "white knight", I think it is safe to say it went way too far.
-EDIT-
I remembered after the fact that Silver prefers to be tagged when referenced, apologies.
Agree with the points you made as well. I hope, after having had the benefit of some sober second thought, and the chance to sleep on it, they realise that this is not only overkill, but tantamount to blowing up themselves (and their company) to spite those who did them wrong.
There is only one way I will continue with this game. An apology and giving me all the rewards (dilithium, voyage rewards, etc...) that I missed due to the ban. I imagine that I should just plan on having a lot more time and money in the very near future...
This kind of reminds of the Dumb and Dumber movie line, "Lloyd, just when I think you can go and do nothing stupider"...
I'm the first person to defend TP/WRG, often to my own detriment, when the forums get their torches and pitchforks out unfairly. This is not one of those times.
I'm sure there were some people who knew full well what they were doing to exploit a glaringly obvious bug in the code. They probably clicked the button well into the triple digits, hoping to maliciously take advantage. As I'm sure is listed in the Terms & Conditions, this is not allowed and they can, and should be punished. They deserve the bans they received.
However, it is blindingly obvious that most of those being punished did not do this. Maybe they clicked it a couple of extra times. But there was clearly no malicious intent involved in the majority of the cases. These players do not deserve to be banned.
Take away the excess resources gained. That's fair. Give them a warning, if you feel that is absolutely necessary. But banning those players for 72 hours, during Mega event no less, is ridiculous.
You are not only punishing these players for an honest mistake. You are also punishing their squad and fleet mates. Not just with regards to the events, but the completion of dailies by 40 players in order to get the new resources for crew retrieval.
So, not only are you arguably punishing people who didn't intentionally do anything wrong, you are literally punishing people who absolutely did NOTHINGwrong. This is BS, plain and simple.
I'm not sure what the bloody hell is going on with your testing procedures, quality control and oversight, but these types of mistakes are becoming the norm, not the exception to the rule. There needs to be some real accountability taken by TP/WRG. Enough is enough. I've been extremely understanding, when others have not, but even I'm done with the excuses.
Not only should whoever is responsible for these failings be held responsible, but you all need to do some serious soul searching as to how this situation has been handled. There is absolutely no excuse for penalising almost the entire player base, as stated above. Whether it's directly via bans, or indirectly via losing our fleet mates for 3 days, this is inexcusable.
You had an opportunity to ride a pretty decent wave of good will with the new feature. A lot of people were happy because of it. You've flushed all of that down the toilet with these actions. I understand a message needed to be sent to those who intentionally exploited this bug, but talk about overkill.
I can not understand why you've decided this was the hill you were ready to die on. I've often thought most of the "this game is going to die" talk was overstated, but this might legitimately kill it. The final nail in a coffin being built, slowly but surely.
Your company made the mistake that led to it being exploited, yet it seems like innocent players are being held accountable for it far more than any one directly responsible for it on your staff. Again, let me be clear — this is not acceptable.
This is the most united this forum has been in a long time. Congrats TP/WRG. Way to seriously drop the ball in a way I never thought possible.
This pretty much exactly sums up my feelings. And to combine this with what @eXo | SilverRose (retired) said earlier, speaking as somebody who in the past has had the mentality of "I don't care how many times I need to pull this pack to get THE THING, I'm not stopping until I get THE THING," I completely understand how a lot of folks like myself, who have literally thousands of every currency saved up, would see a "Buy More" button and just go HAM on it trying to get THE THING, especially for folks with huge dilithium reserves. I think that describes most of the players involved here and punishing them and their squad/fleetmates by association not only looks like a misread of the 'letter of the law', but also feels like a large move away from 'the spirit of the law'.
I am glad this happened on a Thursday and not over the weekend, I very much hope that folks return to the office Friday morning and do something about this, because nothing about this response passes muster with me, and if it bothers an alleged "white knight", I think it is safe to say it went way too far.
-EDIT-
I remembered after the fact that Silver prefers to be tagged when referenced, apologies.
Agree with the points you made as well. I hope, after having had the benefit of some sober second thought, and the chance to sleep on it, they realise that this is not only overkill, but tantamount to blowing up themselves (and their company) to spite those who did them wrong.
I still don’t believe there was any wrongdoing. I claimed the pack once, then upon seeing a newly added button that wasn’t included in yesterday’s pack, I utilized the new functionality and thought it was an unexpected surprise for players. I technically didn’t even claim the pack more than once, since I never left the pack sub-screen. As I’ve said elsewhere, I was impressed at their gesture and thought it was a great way to build excitement for the new feature. TP added the ‘buy more’ button and I gladly made use of it. How was anything I did wrong?
@Bylo Band thanks for the tag. I don't mind on most threads - that was really about the time someone accused me of sucking Mech's toes in order to get a win and no one clued me in to let me defend myself.
I think the weirdest thing is about this is that this game relies upon multiple logins and contacts. They're now removing that from a large chunk of the most engaged portion of the player base. Three days is enough to break a habit. What are they expecting after this timeout - everyone logs back in, learns a lesson, and apologizes? Not going to happen.
A few years back, I was temporarily banned in game by mistake. It was meant for another player but they applied it to my account instead. It took a number of testy emails to customer support and a few hours to reverse.
When it happened, I felt like something I'd invested a lot of time and money into had been stolen from me. It was very disturbing. I'm sure a lot of people are now starting to realize that this isn't a possession or investment and they have no control over it. I kept trying to login not remembering that I wasn't able to. After a few hours, I started to forget about shuttles I couldn't claim, but that feeling of loss and violation persisted. I still have my account this time, but I remember that feeling of confusion, outrage, and violation. It was honestly the beginning of the end for me with this game. I am sure that this experience will drive a lot of people away.
I'm the first person to defend TP/WRG, often to my own detriment, when the forums get their torches and pitchforks out unfairly. This is not one of those times.
I'm sure there were some people who knew full well what they were doing to exploit a glaringly obvious bug in the code. They probably clicked the button well into the triple digits, hoping to maliciously take advantage. As I'm sure is listed in the Terms & Conditions, this is not allowed and they can, and should be punished. They deserve the bans they received.
However, it is blindingly obvious that most of those being punished did not do this. Maybe they clicked it a couple of extra times. But there was clearly no malicious intent involved in the majority of the cases. These players do not deserve to be banned.
Take away the excess resources gained. That's fair. Give them a warning, if you feel that is absolutely necessary. But banning those players for 72 hours, during Mega event no less, is ridiculous.
You are not only punishing these players for an honest mistake. You are also punishing their squad and fleet mates. Not just with regards to the events, but the completion of dailies by 40 players in order to get the new resources for crew retrieval.
So, not only are you arguably punishing people who didn't intentionally do anything wrong, you are literally punishing people who absolutely did NOTHINGwrong. This is BS, plain and simple.
I'm not sure what the bloody hell is going on with your testing procedures, quality control and oversight, but these types of mistakes are becoming the norm, not the exception to the rule. There needs to be some real accountability taken by TP/WRG. Enough is enough. I've been extremely understanding, when others have not, but even I'm done with the excuses.
Not only should whoever is responsible for these failings be held responsible, but you all need to do some serious soul searching as to how this situation has been handled. There is absolutely no excuse for penalising almost the entire player base, as stated above. Whether it's directly via bans, or indirectly via losing our fleet mates for 3 days, this is inexcusable.
You had an opportunity to ride a pretty decent wave of good will with the new feature. A lot of people were happy because of it. You've flushed all of that down the toilet with these actions. I understand a message needed to be sent to those who intentionally exploited this bug, but talk about overkill.
I can not understand why you've decided this was the hill you were ready to die on. I've often thought most of the "this game is going to die" talk was overstated, but this might legitimately kill it. The final nail in a coffin being built, slowly but surely.
Your company made the mistake that led to it being exploited, yet it seems like innocent players are being held accountable for it far more than any one directly responsible for it on your staff. Again, let me be clear — this is not acceptable.
This is the most united this forum has been in a long time. Congrats TP/WRG. Way to seriously drop the ball in a way I never thought possible.
This pretty much exactly sums up my feelings. And to combine this with what @eXo | SilverRose (retired) said earlier, speaking as somebody who in the past has had the mentality of "I don't care how many times I need to pull this pack to get THE THING, I'm not stopping until I get THE THING," I completely understand how a lot of folks like myself, who have literally thousands of every currency saved up, would see a "Buy More" button and just go HAM on it trying to get THE THING, especially for folks with huge dilithium reserves. I think that describes most of the players involved here and punishing them and their squad/fleetmates by association not only looks like a misread of the 'letter of the law', but also feels like a large move away from 'the spirit of the law'.
I am glad this happened on a Thursday and not over the weekend, I very much hope that folks return to the office Friday morning and do something about this, because nothing about this response passes muster with me, and if it bothers an alleged "white knight", I think it is safe to say it went way too far.
-EDIT-
I remembered after the fact that Silver prefers to be tagged when referenced, apologies.
Agree with the points you made as well. I hope, after having had the benefit of some sober second thought, and the chance to sleep on it, they realise that this is not only overkill, but tantamount to blowing up themselves (and their company) to spite those who did them wrong.
I still don’t believe there was any wrongdoing. I claimed the pack once, then upon seeing a newly added button that wasn’t included in yesterday’s pack, I utilized the new functionality and thought it was an unexpected surprise for players. I technically didn’t even claim the pack more than once, since I never left the pack sub-screen. As I’ve said elsewhere, I was impressed at their gesture and thought it was a great way to build excitement for the new feature. TP added the ‘buy more’ button and I gladly made use of it. How was anything I did wrong?
Please reread what myself and @Bylo Band wrote in the section you quoted. I think you'll find that we aren't saying:
• you're in the wrong OR
• TP is handling this well
I'm the first person to defend TP/WRG, often to my own detriment, when the forums get their torches and pitchforks out unfairly. This is not one of those times.
I'm sure there were some people who knew full well what they were doing to exploit a glaringly obvious bug in the code. They probably clicked the button well into the triple digits, hoping to maliciously take advantage. As I'm sure is listed in the Terms & Conditions, this is not allowed and they can, and should be punished. They deserve the bans they received.
However, it is blindingly obvious that most of those being punished did not do this. Maybe they clicked it a couple of extra times. But there was clearly no malicious intent involved in the majority of the cases. These players do not deserve to be banned.
Take away the excess resources gained. That's fair. Give them a warning, if you feel that is absolutely necessary. But banning those players for 72 hours, during Mega event no less, is ridiculous.
You are not only punishing these players for an honest mistake. You are also punishing their squad and fleet mates. Not just with regards to the events, but the completion of dailies by 40 players in order to get the new resources for crew retrieval.
So, not only are you arguably punishing people who didn't intentionally do anything wrong, you are literally punishing people who absolutely did NOTHINGwrong. This is BS, plain and simple.
I'm not sure what the bloody hell is going on with your testing procedures, quality control and oversight, but these types of mistakes are becoming the norm, not the exception to the rule. There needs to be some real accountability taken by TP/WRG. Enough is enough. I've been extremely understanding, when others have not, but even I'm done with the excuses.
Not only should whoever is responsible for these failings be held responsible, but you all need to do some serious soul searching as to how this situation has been handled. There is absolutely no excuse for penalising almost the entire player base, as stated above. Whether it's directly via bans, or indirectly via losing our fleet mates for 3 days, this is inexcusable.
You had an opportunity to ride a pretty decent wave of good will with the new feature. A lot of people were happy because of it. You've flushed all of that down the toilet with these actions. I understand a message needed to be sent to those who intentionally exploited this bug, but talk about overkill.
I can not understand why you've decided this was the hill you were ready to die on. I've often thought most of the "this game is going to die" talk was overstated, but this might legitimately kill it. The final nail in a coffin being built, slowly but surely.
Your company made the mistake that led to it being exploited, yet it seems like innocent players are being held accountable for it far more than any one directly responsible for it on your staff. Again, let me be clear — this is not acceptable.
This is the most united this forum has been in a long time. Congrats TP/WRG. Way to seriously drop the ball in a way I never thought possible.
This pretty much exactly sums up my feelings. And to combine this with what @eXo | SilverRose (retired) said earlier, speaking as somebody who in the past has had the mentality of "I don't care how many times I need to pull this pack to get THE THING, I'm not stopping until I get THE THING," I completely understand how a lot of folks like myself, who have literally thousands of every currency saved up, would see a "Buy More" button and just go HAM on it trying to get THE THING, especially for folks with huge dilithium reserves. I think that describes most of the players involved here and punishing them and their squad/fleetmates by association not only looks like a misread of the 'letter of the law', but also feels like a large move away from 'the spirit of the law'.
I am glad this happened on a Thursday and not over the weekend, I very much hope that folks return to the office Friday morning and do something about this, because nothing about this response passes muster with me, and if it bothers an alleged "white knight", I think it is safe to say it went way too far.
-EDIT-
I remembered after the fact that Silver prefers to be tagged when referenced, apologies.
Agree with the points you made as well. I hope, after having had the benefit of some sober second thought, and the chance to sleep on it, they realise that this is not only overkill, but tantamount to blowing up themselves (and their company) to spite those who did them wrong.
I still don’t believe there was any wrongdoing. I claimed the pack once, then upon seeing a newly added button that wasn’t included in yesterday’s pack, I utilized the new functionality and thought it was an unexpected surprise for players. I technically didn’t even claim the pack more than once, since I never left the pack sub-screen. As I’ve said elsewhere, I was impressed at their gesture and thought it was a great way to build excitement for the new feature. TP added the ‘buy more’ button and I gladly made use of it. How was anything I did wrong?
Please reread what myself and @Bylo Band wrote in the section you quoted. I think you'll find that we aren't saying:
• you're in the wrong OR
• TP is handling this well
I know. I was referring to the last bit about “those who did them wrong”, to stress the point that even any perceived wrongdoing (by TP, not you) is not justified in my opinion.
Honestly, I have laughed pretty hard about this dumpster fire today. This will go down in mobile gaming history as how not to treat your player base. Thanks to everyone here and in my fleet, but **tsk tsk** y o u WRG
@Bylo Band thanks for the tag. I don't mind on most threads - that was really about the time someone accused me of sucking Mech's toes in order to get a win and no one clued me in to let me defend myself.
I think the weirdest thing is about this is that this game relies upon multiple logins and contacts. They're now removing that from a large chunk of the most engaged portion of the player base. Three days is enough to break a habit. What are they expecting after this timeout - everyone logs back in, learns a lesson, and apologizes? Not going to happen.
A few years back, I was temporarily banned in game by mistake. It was meant for another player but they applied it to my account instead. It took a number of testy emails to customer support and a few hours to reverse.
When it happened, I felt like something I'd invested a lot of time and money into had been stolen from me. It was very disturbing. I'm sure a lot of people are now starting to realize that this isn't a possession or investment and they have no control over it. I kept trying to login not remembering that I wasn't able to. After a few hours, I started to forget about shuttles I couldn't claim, but that feeling of loss and violation persisted. I still have my account this time, but I remember that feeling of confusion, outrage, and violation. It was honestly the beginning of the end for me with this game. I am sure that this experience will drive a lot of people away.
I’ve been thinking this since I have been locked out. What they are doing here is giving those people who have been thinking about quitting a forced three day opportunity to see how they feel. Did I miss the game? Did it feel good not being glued to it and I’m going to continue that feeling? You know, I didn’t have the game for three days and I didn’t die or go through withdrawals. I never realized until now, but I can easily go without it but I was afraid to try until now. These are real thoughts people are going to have and feel. I know one of the first things I’m going to do when I get back in is check the arena rewards to see how many are now in the top 1%. That number has been going down already. Very curious to see how much it shrinks to now.
1. Error was in TP/WRG's QA releasing something before it was properly vetted. And let's face it, not their first time.
2. This game was deliberately coded by DB and inherited by TP/WRG as "click-happy, buyer beware, no confirmations". The "bug" that occurred were basically only exacerbated by the click-happy mentality the developers spent 5 years cultivating.
3. Accusing the players of exploiting and banning them is _poor_ form and an excuse to blame someone else for your mistakes.
4. Banning paying customers is a good way to lose money
5. Banning customers _also_ affects players who were not banned from getting their dailies and other rewards too that are fleet oriented.
There's no excuse, and WRG/TP have just alienated a whole _heap_ of players, banned or otherwise since banned players are not going to know they're unbanned until 3 days later _if_ they ever both trying to log in again. And now legitimate players will be far more gunshy being click-happy at sales because, "What If i get banned because this is another bug that TP/WRG didn't test for _before_ releasing it?"
I wasn't banned, i didn't do the "bug" in their sale. But I'm a VIP14 player and am nearly done with these guys after 12 months of nothing but bugs, glitches and other screw ups.
This basically is a Business 101 on how _not_ to handle a company's public mistake.
For what it's worth, I have pulled up what I believe are the relevant sections of the TOS. I am posting them here so that anyone interested in reading them can do so without having to dig through the entire TOS.
Full disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, and this does not constitute legal advice. Should you disagree with my interpretation, I suggest you exercise your rights as stated in the final image.
And once again, so there are no misunderstandings, as I already stated a few posts earlier, I do not agree with how this situation is being handled. This is merely in response to suggestions that what TP is doing is illegal, or not covered by the TOS.
The pertinent portions are highlighted in blue, for ease of use.
This pack was announced as being available once per day and displayed a purchase limit of 1. The fact that it was claimable more than once was clearly a bug.
As the actual pack had this information, as per Shan, using it more than once is certainly a violation of its intended use.
The important information here is Using, developing or distributing any “bot”, spider, unauthorized script, unauthorized scraper or offline reader, or any other cheat, exploit, mod, bot, hack or the like, or any unauthorized third party software designed to modify or interfere with or provide automated access to or use of the Tilting Point Services (including for purposes of accumulating “digital” or “virtual goods” or “virtual currency” or bypassing features that otherwise require payment)
It's clear that there were players who knowingly and admitted to having used this exploit to gain access to the packs, to accumulate virtual goods. It's hard to dispute that.
This details the actions TP are allowed to take, which included a temporary or permanent ban. Which they have.
Here are our legal options, should anyone wish to pursue this matter legally. However, I don't see any legal action taken being successful under these circumstances.
Again, I disagree with your assessment. When you press a button that TP programmed into the game, even if they didn’t mean to put it there, it is NOT AN EXPLOIT. I played their game. It’s not my fault if their developers and/or quality control people didn’t do their job properly.
It was a new button that differentiated today’s pack from yesterday’s pack, which I assumed was intentionally added for surprise player benefit. I only ‘claimed’ the pack once, then utilized the newly added “buy more” button functionality as TP designed and implemented it.
No exploiting. No cheating. No breach of ToS.
I played their game. It’s not my fault TP messed their own game up.
Comments
Star Trek Timelines player base, circa 2021, colorized.
Or are you going to punish people who had nothing to do with this newest 'mistake' of WRG .
Welcome to Funland where it's always time for fun....
Also works for the future of the game. You can’t blame the user when the developer screws up. You can’t punish innocent people (anyone in a squad or fleet with a banned player) for your own mistakes. Well, you can. But then your product or service won’t last long.
but did you violate those items in bold above? All that was done was a "feature" available (due to poor coding & QA) in the game was used.
Trust me when I say that every word I've written was in the calmest possible tone. It doesn't change my anger and frustration level. I'm not screaming. I'm plainly stating that this decision is unfair and as a result, I will be leaving permanently unless TP apologizes and reinstates my fleetmates. It's a simple matter of them deciding whether or not they want customers.
The whole point is that that appears to be their basis for the ban and resource purging. They are claiming players "exploited a bug". There was a big, yellow button that clearly said "BUY AGAIN". If they are claiming people violated the TOS, shouldn't they follow the TOS in response? Otherwise, it is like rain on your wedding day.....
Proud Former Officer of The Gluten Empire
Retired 12-14-20. So long, and thanks for all the cat pics!
I don't care whether I violated the terms. I merely demand that the proper action is taken, according to the TOS, which is criminal prosecution.
It's then up to the prosecutor to decide whether I've committed any felony. (Their decision should be pretty obvious though.)
oh I'm with you - was just pointing out - let them try to prosecute.....gonna be a fun day that
- a judge, probably, somewhere that's not a banana republic
I'm sure there were some people who knew full well what they were doing to exploit a glaringly obvious bug in the code. They probably clicked the button well into the triple digits, hoping to maliciously take advantage. As I'm sure is listed in the Terms & Conditions, this is not allowed and they can, and should be punished. They deserve the bans they received.
However, it is blindingly obvious that most of those being punished did not do this. Maybe they clicked it a couple of extra times. But there was clearly no malicious intent involved in the majority of the cases. These players do not deserve to be banned.
Take away the excess resources gained. That's fair. Give them a warning, if you feel that is absolutely necessary. But banning those players for 72 hours, during Mega event no less, is ridiculous.
You are not only punishing these players for an honest mistake. You are also punishing their squad and fleet mates. Not just with regards to the events, but the completion of dailies by 40 players in order to get the new resources for crew retrieval.
So, not only are you arguably punishing people who didn't intentionally do anything wrong, you are literally punishing people who absolutely did NOTHINGwrong. This is BS, plain and simple.
I'm not sure what the bloody hell is going on with your testing procedures, quality control and oversight, but these types of mistakes are becoming the norm, not the exception to the rule. There needs to be some real accountability taken by TP/WRG. Enough is enough. I've been extremely understanding, when others have not, but even I'm done with the excuses.
Not only should whoever is responsible for these failings be held responsible, but you all need to do some serious soul searching as to how this situation has been handled. There is absolutely no excuse for penalising almost the entire player base, as stated above. Whether it's directly via bans, or indirectly via losing our fleet mates for 3 days, this is inexcusable.
You had an opportunity to ride a pretty decent wave of good will with the new feature. A lot of people were happy because of it. You've flushed all of that down the toilet with these actions. I understand a message needed to be sent to those who intentionally exploited this bug, but talk about overkill.
I can not understand why you've decided this was the hill you were ready to die on. I've often thought most of the "this game is going to die" talk was overstated, but this might legitimately kill it. The final nail in a coffin being built, slowly but surely.
Your company made the mistake that led to it being exploited, yet it seems like innocent players are being held accountable for it far more than any one directly responsible for it on your staff. Again, let me be clear — this is not acceptable.
This is the most united this forum has been in a long time. Congrats TP/WRG. Way to seriously drop the ball in a way I never thought possible.
There is nothing in their TOS justifying this as that “Buy Now” button completely changed the parameters of the offer, and thus, no player was at fault even if they clicked it a million and one times. This is entirely on TP, but instead of admitting their mess up and rectifying the situation, they breach their own contract with players, ban them for three days, and strip them of items like ISM they had from before the pack going live, ultimately sealing the game’s fate.
DB: Do Better.
Member of Starship Trista.
Better that a thousand innocents shall suffer and all that Jazz. TP read Les Mis and came away with the conclusion that Javert was the hero.
Most TOS have a clause in them that bans intentional exploitation of obvious bugs, along with puntitive measures for doing so.
As for the rest of your post, did you miss that 90% of my post was completely in support of the majority of what you just said?
Lol. Love the analogy.
This pretty much exactly sums up my feelings. And to combine this with what @eXo | SilverRose (retired) said earlier, speaking as somebody who in the past has had the mentality of "I don't care how many times I need to pull this pack to get THE THING, I'm not stopping until I get THE THING," I completely understand how a lot of folks like myself, who have literally thousands of every currency saved up, would see a "Buy More" button and just go HAM on it trying to get THE THING, especially for folks with huge dilithium reserves. I think that describes most of the players involved here and punishing them and their squad/fleetmates by association not only looks like a misread of the 'letter of the law', but also feels like a large move away from 'the spirit of the law'.
I am glad this happened on a Thursday and not over the weekend, I very much hope that folks return to the office Friday morning and do something about this, because nothing about this response passes muster with me, and if it bothers an alleged "white knight", I think it is safe to say it went way too far.
-EDIT-
I remembered after the fact that Silver prefers to be tagged when referenced, apologies.
Agree with the points you made as well. I hope, after having had the benefit of some sober second thought, and the chance to sleep on it, they realise that this is not only overkill, but tantamount to blowing up themselves (and their company) to spite those who did them wrong.
This kind of reminds of the Dumb and Dumber movie line, "Lloyd, just when I think you can go and do nothing stupider"...
I still don’t believe there was any wrongdoing. I claimed the pack once, then upon seeing a newly added button that wasn’t included in yesterday’s pack, I utilized the new functionality and thought it was an unexpected surprise for players. I technically didn’t even claim the pack more than once, since I never left the pack sub-screen. As I’ve said elsewhere, I was impressed at their gesture and thought it was a great way to build excitement for the new feature. TP added the ‘buy more’ button and I gladly made use of it. How was anything I did wrong?
I think the weirdest thing is about this is that this game relies upon multiple logins and contacts. They're now removing that from a large chunk of the most engaged portion of the player base. Three days is enough to break a habit. What are they expecting after this timeout - everyone logs back in, learns a lesson, and apologizes? Not going to happen.
A few years back, I was temporarily banned in game by mistake. It was meant for another player but they applied it to my account instead. It took a number of testy emails to customer support and a few hours to reverse.
When it happened, I felt like something I'd invested a lot of time and money into had been stolen from me. It was very disturbing. I'm sure a lot of people are now starting to realize that this isn't a possession or investment and they have no control over it. I kept trying to login not remembering that I wasn't able to. After a few hours, I started to forget about shuttles I couldn't claim, but that feeling of loss and violation persisted. I still have my account this time, but I remember that feeling of confusion, outrage, and violation. It was honestly the beginning of the end for me with this game. I am sure that this experience will drive a lot of people away.
Proud Former Officer of The Gluten Empire
Retired 12-14-20. So long, and thanks for all the cat pics!
Please reread what myself and @Bylo Band wrote in the section you quoted. I think you'll find that we aren't saying:
• you're in the wrong
OR
• TP is handling this well
I know. I was referring to the last bit about “those who did them wrong”, to stress the point that even any perceived wrongdoing (by TP, not you) is not justified in my opinion.
My post from the other thread....
Proud member of Patterns of Force
Captain Level 99
Played since January 2017
TP: Do better!!!
I’ve been thinking this since I have been locked out. What they are doing here is giving those people who have been thinking about quitting a forced three day opportunity to see how they feel. Did I miss the game? Did it feel good not being glued to it and I’m going to continue that feeling? You know, I didn’t have the game for three days and I didn’t die or go through withdrawals. I never realized until now, but I can easily go without it but I was afraid to try until now. These are real thoughts people are going to have and feel. I know one of the first things I’m going to do when I get back in is check the arena rewards to see how many are now in the top 1%. That number has been going down already. Very curious to see how much it shrinks to now.
2. This game was deliberately coded by DB and inherited by TP/WRG as "click-happy, buyer beware, no confirmations". The "bug" that occurred were basically only exacerbated by the click-happy mentality the developers spent 5 years cultivating.
3. Accusing the players of exploiting and banning them is _poor_ form and an excuse to blame someone else for your mistakes.
4. Banning paying customers is a good way to lose money
5. Banning customers _also_ affects players who were not banned from getting their dailies and other rewards too that are fleet oriented.
There's no excuse, and WRG/TP have just alienated a whole _heap_ of players, banned or otherwise since banned players are not going to know they're unbanned until 3 days later _if_ they ever both trying to log in again. And now legitimate players will be far more gunshy being click-happy at sales because, "What If i get banned because this is another bug that TP/WRG didn't test for _before_ releasing it?"
I wasn't banned, i didn't do the "bug" in their sale. But I'm a VIP14 player and am nearly done with these guys after 12 months of nothing but bugs, glitches and other screw ups.
This basically is a Business 101 on how _not_ to handle a company's public mistake.
Full disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, and this does not constitute legal advice. Should you disagree with my interpretation, I suggest you exercise your rights as stated in the final image.
And once again, so there are no misunderstandings, as I already stated a few posts earlier, I do not agree with how this situation is being handled. This is merely in response to suggestions that what TP is doing is illegal, or not covered by the TOS.
The pertinent portions are highlighted in blue, for ease of use.
As the actual pack had this information, as per Shan, using it more than once is certainly a violation of its intended use.
The important information here is Using, developing or distributing any “bot”, spider, unauthorized script, unauthorized scraper or offline reader, or any other cheat, exploit, mod, bot, hack or the like, or any unauthorized third party software designed to modify or interfere with or provide automated access to or use of the Tilting Point Services (including for purposes of accumulating “digital” or “virtual goods” or “virtual currency” or bypassing features that otherwise require payment)
It's clear that there were players who knowingly and admitted to having used this exploit to gain access to the packs, to accumulate virtual goods. It's hard to dispute that.
This details the actions TP are allowed to take, which included a temporary or permanent ban. Which they have.
Here are our legal options, should anyone wish to pursue this matter legally. However, I don't see any legal action taken being successful under these circumstances.
LLAP 🖖
It was a new button that differentiated today’s pack from yesterday’s pack, which I assumed was intentionally added for surprise player benefit. I only ‘claimed’ the pack once, then utilized the newly added “buy more” button functionality as TP designed and implemented it.
No exploiting. No cheating. No breach of ToS.
I played their game. It’s not my fault TP messed their own game up.