Sad news. Hope the folks that raised the „issue“ are happy now. 😒
It's waay better than the excrement storm that would occur when the realize it sometime next week and then change it BEFORE the next event claiming no harm no foul, but AFTER this event where people have made decisions about spending tokens/boosts/dil because they were saving it next week.
Really? Yeah there’s always a way worse case scenario. 🙄
It‘s obvious that stats weren t displayed wrong(thx to the new in game tabs), there was no error, otherwise a correction would have done in 5 minutes.
Now they need to adjust items(which takes some time) in the build
to lower the DIP Prof, so i doubt it was any oversight at all.
Stats were exactly as they were meant to be, but thx to some complaining and pointing out stuff, TP decided to give in and nerf.
Changing(nerfing) stuff afterwards is ALWAYS a bad thing! 👎🏻
I can only speak for myself, but i was thrilled to see a new Voyages monster,
making it easier to reach 12h voyages. And i was ready to open my wallet deep
(For 1 or 2 dupes) Now i just feel ******, and my wallet stays closed.
Another disapointment. 😐
I’m with you on this. And I think it also has to do with Ben’s Timelines Talks buddy doing the questioning.
Exactamundo. Its troubling that a single player seemingly has so much pull with the devs.
Correcting a error and quickly and clearly communicating that fact before the character card even went live is bad... how, precisely?
Someone who is upset please explain this to me, because I thought we were all up in arms and getting out pitchforks- and justifiably so- a couple weeks ago about much the opposite.
Correcting a error and quickly and clearly communicating that fact before the character card even went live is bad... how, precisely?
Someone who is upset please explain this to me, because I thought we were all up in arms and getting out pitchforks- and justifiably so- a couple weeks ago about much the opposite.
People are saying that autos pointed suggestion that the new saru was too powerful is why the change is being made.
Correcting a error and quickly and clearly communicating that fact before the character card even went live is bad... how, precisely?
Someone who is upset please explain this to me, because I thought we were all up in arms and getting out pitchforks- and justifiably so- a couple weeks ago about much the opposite.
People are saying that autos pointed suggestion that the new saru was too powerful is why the change is being made.
Sarus stats are visible in game. It was planned.
It’s a shame too. I was really looking forward to getting this card. Would be nice if we had their ear too
Correcting a error and quickly and clearly communicating that fact before the character card even went live is bad... how, precisely?
Someone who is upset please explain this to me, because I thought we were all up in arms and getting out pitchforks- and justifiably so- a couple weeks ago about much the opposite.
People are saying that autos pointed suggestion that the new saru was too powerful is why the change is being made.
Sarus stats are visible in game. It was planned.
A typo in the prof bonus for an item shows up in the game but is still just as much a typo as Shan posting the wrong value here. And if it's the item in the game that's wrong they need to take a little time to be sure they don't break something else with the fix. How many times have we seen announcements days/weeks after a character is introduced that they fixed the equipment resulting in small stat changes. Most of the time it's too small to make a big deal. The mistake here was larger so it was noticed in advance.
But just because someone notices a mistake in the game and TP acknowledges the mistake, it doesn't mean that TP changed the stats because the person asked for it. For starters, no one asked to change the stats, just to check them. Second of all, if the stats were right TP could have just said, "they're right". Looking at things like the 6/7 polestars for rank 4, TP looks to be more likely to double down and claim a mistake is intentional than admit a mistake. If they're admitting this is a mistake, they probably really screwed up.
Correcting a error and quickly and clearly communicating that fact before the character card even went live is bad... how, precisely?
Someone who is upset please explain this to me, because I thought we were all up in arms and getting out pitchforks- and justifiably so- a couple weeks ago about much the opposite.
People are saying that autos pointed suggestion that the new saru was too powerful is why the change is being made.
Sarus stats are visible in game. It was planned.
A typo in the prof bonus for an item shows up in the game but is still just as much a typo as Shan posting the wrong value here. And if it's the item in the game that's wrong they need to take a little time to be sure they don't break something else with the fix. How many times have we seen announcements days/weeks after a character is introduced that they fixed the equipment resulting in small stat changes. Most of the time it's too small to make a big deal. The mistake here was larger so it was noticed in advance.
But just because someone notices a mistake in the game and TP acknowledges the mistake, it doesn't mean that TP changed the stats because the person asked for it. For starters, no one asked to change the stats, just to check them. Second of all, if the stats were right TP could have just said, "they're right". Looking at things like the 6/7 polestars for rank 4, TP looks to be more likely to double down and claim a mistake is intentional than admit a mistake. If they're admitting this is a mistake, they probably really screwed up.
Yeah. You don’t have to agree with my analysis.
Im not really going to buy your analysis either. I see no evidence that this was a “typo”.
Curious how the mistaken stats were posted -- was it a simple misdesign of one of the items that caused things to go up higher than intended (and thus a lack of QC to proof the final stats before posting)...
Or was it intended and no one among the devs realized how the card stacked up against the existing lineup with such a game balance changing stats, which... is again a lack of QC.
Was the card not finished through the internal review process and another casualty of the "caught by surprise that it posted 1 week earlier than they used to" problem that has marred the event hub?
Love the art, but disappointed that a great looking card and character moment is glossed over because of the revision and resultant discussions. It felt like we finally moved passed the sloppy errors that plagued the game the end of 2020... so how's that "we'll review our internal policies and practices" statement working...?
Glad for a fast identification, review, and revision well in advance of the event itself so it can't change anyone's decisions to go, or not go, after a card. I just had been hopeful that the internal improvements to practices would have prevented another unnecessary mistake from getting through.
I really hope that this card stays with those stats. It is great to get a card that I both want to own and want to play! For a long time Braxton, Gary Seven and Burnham were in a league of their own with a spread in the hundreds between even Braxton and Burnham.
With just 10% starbase bonuses Gary released 56 points ahead of FOB. Braxton released 35 points ahead of Gary. Saru is 202 points ahead of Braxton. Definitely the biggest leap since Voyages have been in game. There's precedent with base crew like Sato, Tribble, Culber, Bones, but this would be the first time for such a large voyage gap.
Not speaking to whether it's good or bad, would just like to make sure the stats are correct.
So, 56, then 35 in a span of what... a couple months? Then a two year gap for a new #1 voyager (with full bonuses - Spork is #2 with no bonuses) and even then it's a few points. I have to agree with @Thurthorad that we're overdue for a significant step. I hope that they don't nerf the voyage total by more than 50-80 points. That way it remains at the top by a wide margin. And I only say that because they already sent the message that stats would drop.
The way I see it, with Spork and Humaru coming along so closely together, players who miss one can try the other. And players who get both have a couple voyage combos that will be really good. It's not like this is going to make every voyage 12 hours if they release two good SCI/CMD/DIP crew within the same week. Again... after two years, we're overdue. Then they can scale it back for a while and let the rest of the combos catch up.
Correcting a error and quickly and clearly communicating that fact before the character card even went live is bad... how, precisely?
Someone who is upset please explain this to me, because I thought we were all up in arms and getting out pitchforks- and justifiably so- a couple weeks ago about much the opposite.
People are saying that autos pointed suggestion that the new saru was too powerful is why the change is being made.
Sarus stats are visible in game. It was planned.
Or it was a typo and got fixed before it went live and they clearly and quickly communicated that, as we have been shouting for since...
You say Occam, I say Ockham...
Should we just call the whole thing off?
🤷
Auto, “these are not the stats you’re looking for”
Ben, “these are not the stats we’re looking for”
Auto, “you should change them now”
Ben, “we should change them now”
Auto, “we can move along”
Ben, “you can move along”
Auto, “these are not the stats you’re looking for”
Ben, “these are not the stats we’re looking for”
Auto, “you should change them now”
Ben, “we should change them now”
Auto, “we can move along”
Ben, “you can move along”
Truthfully, the influence we have seen from the timelines talks crew on the game is getting a bit disturbing.
At first it was pretty harmless, stars suggested the ev suit collection, with the name “a little stroll”.....and we got it.
He wanted ev worf.....we got him.
Klingon collection was suggested to be massive by auto, ben “made it so”
Now, a new crew is considered too op for precedent by auto and it gets nerfed.
I really appreciate everything that idol, auto and stars do for the game. But they are not the all knowing. And there are many other good suggestions made on these forums. Its starting to seem like timelines talks is the voice that wrg is most concerned with, which makes me wonder, are they on the payroll? (Not real money, but game currency, like honor, dilithium, quantum, ism, merits etc etc etc)
I have no issue with those guys having some influence on the game. If you want to grab TPs attention *you* start a podcast and try to engage the community. I think that they speak honestly, transparently and I find the idea that they are on the TP payroll kind of absurd.
Do I wish they were harder on Ben in the interviews? Yes I do. Do I think they have to walk a line in those interviews to keep that direct connection to TP? Yes I do. That is how TP pays them, they have that direct connection. That gets them views, credibility and influence.
Do I think it's unfortunate what happened today? Absolutely, I want a great Human Saru and I'm heartened that a lot of the community have come around to the need from some power creep (including Auto). It was a fair question to ask Shan. You can be disappointed in the answer however.
Human Saru is amusing. Doug Jones is so natural as Saru, him as a human is strange. I'm not sure which is odder in my mind, Doug Jones as Doug Jones or Doug Jones in a bird suit...
It is a treat to see Doug Jones without makeup, but it's a little jarring. When he's fully suited I tend to follow his movements more, but without prosthetics I watch his face. Probably true for people in general, but Doug Jones is at the top of his field.
My subconscious also seems to have a general understanding of how tall Doug Jones is, but hasn't realized Saru wears platform hoof boots. So I tend to think of his cast mates as being 6" shorter than they actually are.
Six degrees in Inter-species Veterinary Medicine. Treating all manner of critters, from Tribbles to Humans.
I have no issue with those guys having some influence on the game. If you want to grab TPs attention *you* start a podcast and try to engage the community. I think that they speak honestly, transparently and I find the idea that they are on the TP payroll kind of absurd.
Do I wish they were harder on Ben in the interviews? Yes I do. Do I think they have to walk a line in those interviews to keep that direct connection to TP? Yes I do. That is how TP pays them, they have that direct connection. That gets them views, credibility and influence.
Do I think it's unfortunate what happened today? Absolutely, I want a great Human Saru and I'm heartened that a lot of the community have come around to the need from some power creep (including Auto). It was a fair question to ask Shan. You can be disappointed in the answer however.
I think this sums it up quite well, and fairly. To imply that any of the Timelines Talks guys are on the payroll is absurd.
I get that people are upset if what looked like a game changing crew gets nerfed, but don't shoot the messenger. If @Automaton_2000 was correct, and it was a mistake, it's not his fault if it gets changed to what it was originally supposed to be.
To aim anger at him, if that is the case, is not only unfair, but borderline sketchy as hell. To knowingly take advantage of what may have been an unintentionally overpowered (OP) crew would be unethical. We're better than that.
I don't think TP will nerf this crew, or any other, just because someone suggests it is OP. If any changes were made, the far more likely reason is because it was an honest mistake.
Seriously, why would TP go out of their way to intentionally upset a large number of people, just to please one? That hardly makes any sense.
People would have lost their minds if they fixed this at a later date. While obviously, it would be ideal if no mistakes slipped through, it's much better to fix now, before the event, than during or after.
Let's what to see what TP/Shan has to say before we pass any judgments or go after any players.
We do need timelines talks to get information from TP and they do ask for questions from the players so that we can be heard. I don’t want the show to stop or Ben to stop going on it. It is a good show and I like hearing from Ben.
I wish TP had just left Saru’s stats alone. He is just one card, we can have an exceptional card without breaking the game and he would be available to all in the wrap up packs. Or if the card needed tweaking they would have told us immediately how much or a range in decrease. How hard should people push the first day of this event to be in best position to get Saru next week?
We do need timelines talks to get information from TP and they do ask for questions from the players so that we can be heard. I don’t want the show to stop or Ben to stop going on it. It is a good show and I like hearing from Ben.
I wish TP had just left Saru’s stats alone. He is just one card, we can have an exceptional card without breaking the game and he would be available to all in the wrap up packs. Or if the card needed tweaking they would have told us immediately how much or a range in decrease. How hard should people push the first day of this event to be in best position to get Saru next week?
Could you imagine 6 of him on a vogage. Or maybe that would be overkill for his primary and secondary being the same as the voyage.
We do need timelines talks to get information from TP and they do ask for questions from the players so that we can be heard. I don’t want the show to stop or Ben to stop going on it. It is a good show and I like hearing from Ben.
I wish TP had just left Saru’s stats alone. He is just one card, we can have an exceptional card without breaking the game and he would be available to all in the wrap up packs. Or if the card needed tweaking they would have told us immediately how much or a range in decrease. How hard should people push the first day of this event to be in best position to get Saru next week?
Could you imagine 6 of him on a vogage. Or maybe that would be overkill for his primary and secondary being the same as the voyage.
6 would unbalance a voyage and give it problems. Even if it didn’t, voyages are personal and their effects on events are only in chrons and the difference would not be enough to make much impact. Any player that could have multiple copies already has the best crew and is placing top 50. A copy of Saru would though give a chance for newer players to do better on voyages and add to the excitement of the game. I think leaving Saru as he was would have shown good will to the players after the other issues.
Just to clarify mine, Auto's and Stars positions with the Devs. We ask them to do a Q&A, they come and do a Q&A. That's it. We don't have pull/sway and any kind of intention to alter the game based on our whims.
If we did, this would be the least of our concerns. Auto does what a player does, point out that wow, his stats are bonkers, was this intentional? Because we know that they have a history with stat changes and the occasional error.
So @Banjo1012@BarnBurner@Trollita@Thurthorad please check your facts before you spread misinformation around because it isn't clever, it isn't productive and it certainly doesn't help the tone of these forums.
all's well on Saru ... not that I cared much anyway ...
but Waddle is kinda a stellar voyager that we all get 4/5 (instant cite in my book) ... a free Prisoner Kim for all ... with a Klingon tag and decent traits for voyages.
I have to say, Waddle is kinda nuts ... will be used by players for the coming years 100% ... not like some other Klingons we've had in megas (outside of Tenavik).
LOL don’t @ me. I can read just fine, and it looks like the forum buzz brought attention to the card. I happen to find the situation rather amusing, so you can calm down about “muh forum tone.” Pfff.
Haha you fools took the bait. While you were busy gawking at Saru, no one noticed that I ordered WRG to give my favorite character Chakotay the #1 base and #2 voyage score.
But seriously if you want another crew changed, just dm me the details. It's $50 each, I take PayPal or Venmo. I'll just call up my bff Benny (he was the best man at my wedding) and have him move some numbers around. 1 stat change per customer, please.
on a separate note, its interesting that they introduce 4 crew to a single mega all of which appeared in the last 3 episodes of season 3? Human Saru, Bajoran Culber, Xahean Adira, Trill Burnham
Also I hope this doesn't poke a hornets nest, but I'm questioning whether these crew should be given the costumed trait (based on human saru traits). I would have thought being costumed requires an active role in putting something on vs what happened in the episodes.
on a separate note, its interesting that they introduce 4 crew to a single mega all of which appeared in the last 3 episodes of season 3? Human Saru, Bajoran Culber, Xahean Adira, Trill Burnham
Also I hope this doesn't poke a hornets nest, but I'm questioning whether these crew should be given the costumed trait (based on human saru traits). I would have thought being costumed requires an active role in putting something on vs what happened in the episodes.
I'm inclined to agree with you, but also I really want those crew in game, so I'm willing to let it slide.
Regarding Human Saru, I don't believe it was a typo because that's not how they build their crew. The delay in announcing the new stat tells me some of the equipment needs to be rebuilt in order to lower it. I'm of two minds on this - I kind of like the idea of that Spork being the top Voyage card (with bonuses), but I'm also liking that they seem ready to push the boundaries with power creep again. Maybe a drop of about 150 on proficiency would be a nice middle ground?
on a separate note, its interesting that they introduce 4 crew to a single mega all of which appeared in the last 3 episodes of season 3? Human Saru, Bajoran Culber, Xahean Adira, Trill Burnham
Also I hope this doesn't poke a hornets nest, but I'm questioning whether these crew should be given the costumed trait (based on human saru traits). I would have thought being costumed requires an active role in putting something on vs what happened in the episodes.
Comments
Exactamundo. Its troubling that a single player seemingly has so much pull with the devs.
Someone who is upset please explain this to me, because I thought we were all up in arms and getting out pitchforks- and justifiably so- a couple weeks ago about much the opposite.
People are saying that autos pointed suggestion that the new saru was too powerful is why the change is being made.
Sarus stats are visible in game. It was planned.
It’s a shame too. I was really looking forward to getting this card. Would be nice if we had their ear too
A typo in the prof bonus for an item shows up in the game but is still just as much a typo as Shan posting the wrong value here. And if it's the item in the game that's wrong they need to take a little time to be sure they don't break something else with the fix. How many times have we seen announcements days/weeks after a character is introduced that they fixed the equipment resulting in small stat changes. Most of the time it's too small to make a big deal. The mistake here was larger so it was noticed in advance.
But just because someone notices a mistake in the game and TP acknowledges the mistake, it doesn't mean that TP changed the stats because the person asked for it. For starters, no one asked to change the stats, just to check them. Second of all, if the stats were right TP could have just said, "they're right". Looking at things like the 6/7 polestars for rank 4, TP looks to be more likely to double down and claim a mistake is intentional than admit a mistake. If they're admitting this is a mistake, they probably really screwed up.
Yeah. You don’t have to agree with my analysis.
Im not really going to buy your analysis either. I see no evidence that this was a “typo”.
Or was it intended and no one among the devs realized how the card stacked up against the existing lineup with such a game balance changing stats, which... is again a lack of QC.
Was the card not finished through the internal review process and another casualty of the "caught by surprise that it posted 1 week earlier than they used to" problem that has marred the event hub?
Love the art, but disappointed that a great looking card and character moment is glossed over because of the revision and resultant discussions. It felt like we finally moved passed the sloppy errors that plagued the game the end of 2020... so how's that "we'll review our internal policies and practices" statement working...?
Glad for a fast identification, review, and revision well in advance of the event itself so it can't change anyone's decisions to go, or not go, after a card. I just had been hopeful that the internal improvements to practices would have prevented another unnecessary mistake from getting through.
So, 56, then 35 in a span of what... a couple months? Then a two year gap for a new #1 voyager (with full bonuses - Spork is #2 with no bonuses) and even then it's a few points. I have to agree with @Thurthorad that we're overdue for a significant step. I hope that they don't nerf the voyage total by more than 50-80 points. That way it remains at the top by a wide margin. And I only say that because they already sent the message that stats would drop.
The way I see it, with Spork and Humaru coming along so closely together, players who miss one can try the other. And players who get both have a couple voyage combos that will be really good. It's not like this is going to make every voyage 12 hours if they release two good SCI/CMD/DIP crew within the same week. Again... after two years, we're overdue. Then they can scale it back for a while and let the rest of the combos catch up.
Or it was a typo and got fixed before it went live and they clearly and quickly communicated that, as we have been shouting for since...
You say Occam, I say Ockham...
Should we just call the whole thing off?
🤷
He's the Top 4* Engineer too. Dexa is 9th for base Med if I figured right.
Ben, “these are not the stats we’re looking for”
Auto, “you should change them now”
Ben, “we should change them now”
Auto, “we can move along”
Ben, “you can move along”
Truthfully, the influence we have seen from the timelines talks crew on the game is getting a bit disturbing.
At first it was pretty harmless, stars suggested the ev suit collection, with the name “a little stroll”.....and we got it.
He wanted ev worf.....we got him.
Klingon collection was suggested to be massive by auto, ben “made it so”
Now, a new crew is considered too op for precedent by auto and it gets nerfed.
I really appreciate everything that idol, auto and stars do for the game. But they are not the all knowing. And there are many other good suggestions made on these forums. Its starting to seem like timelines talks is the voice that wrg is most concerned with, which makes me wonder, are they on the payroll? (Not real money, but game currency, like honor, dilithium, quantum, ism, merits etc etc etc)
Proud member of Patterns of Force
Captain Level 99
Played since January 2017
TP: Do better!!!
Do I wish they were harder on Ben in the interviews? Yes I do. Do I think they have to walk a line in those interviews to keep that direct connection to TP? Yes I do. That is how TP pays them, they have that direct connection. That gets them views, credibility and influence.
Do I think it's unfortunate what happened today? Absolutely, I want a great Human Saru and I'm heartened that a lot of the community have come around to the need from some power creep (including Auto). It was a fair question to ask Shan. You can be disappointed in the answer however.
My subconscious also seems to have a general understanding of how tall Doug Jones is, but hasn't realized Saru wears platform hoof boots. So I tend to think of his cast mates as being 6" shorter than they actually are.
Starport
I think this sums it up quite well, and fairly. To imply that any of the Timelines Talks guys are on the payroll is absurd.
I get that people are upset if what looked like a game changing crew gets nerfed, but don't shoot the messenger. If @Automaton_2000 was correct, and it was a mistake, it's not his fault if it gets changed to what it was originally supposed to be.
To aim anger at him, if that is the case, is not only unfair, but borderline sketchy as hell. To knowingly take advantage of what may have been an unintentionally overpowered (OP) crew would be unethical. We're better than that.
I don't think TP will nerf this crew, or any other, just because someone suggests it is OP. If any changes were made, the far more likely reason is because it was an honest mistake.
Seriously, why would TP go out of their way to intentionally upset a large number of people, just to please one? That hardly makes any sense.
People would have lost their minds if they fixed this at a later date. While obviously, it would be ideal if no mistakes slipped through, it's much better to fix now, before the event, than during or after.
Let's what to see what TP/Shan has to say before we pass any judgments or go after any players.
I wish TP had just left Saru’s stats alone. He is just one card, we can have an exceptional card without breaking the game and he would be available to all in the wrap up packs. Or if the card needed tweaking they would have told us immediately how much or a range in decrease. How hard should people push the first day of this event to be in best position to get Saru next week?
Could you imagine 6 of him on a vogage. Or maybe that would be overkill for his primary and secondary being the same as the voyage.
6 would unbalance a voyage and give it problems. Even if it didn’t, voyages are personal and their effects on events are only in chrons and the difference would not be enough to make much impact. Any player that could have multiple copies already has the best crew and is placing top 50. A copy of Saru would though give a chance for newer players to do better on voyages and add to the excitement of the game. I think leaving Saru as he was would have shown good will to the players after the other issues.
If we did, this would be the least of our concerns. Auto does what a player does, point out that wow, his stats are bonkers, was this intentional? Because we know that they have a history with stat changes and the occasional error.
So @Banjo1012 @BarnBurner @Trollita @Thurthorad please check your facts before you spread misinformation around because it isn't clever, it isn't productive and it certainly doesn't help the tone of these forums.
but Waddle is kinda a stellar voyager that we all get 4/5 (instant cite in my book) ... a free Prisoner Kim for all ... with a Klingon tag and decent traits for voyages.
I have to say, Waddle is kinda nuts ... will be used by players for the coming years 100% ... not like some other Klingons we've had in megas (outside of Tenavik).
But seriously if you want another crew changed, just dm me the details. It's $50 each, I take PayPal or Venmo. I'll just call up my bff Benny (he was the best man at my wedding) and have him move some numbers around. 1 stat change per customer, please.
My hero 😍😍😍
Also I hope this doesn't poke a hornets nest, but I'm questioning whether these crew should be given the costumed trait (based on human saru traits). I would have thought being costumed requires an active role in putting something on vs what happened in the episodes.
I'm inclined to agree with you, but also I really want those crew in game, so I'm willing to let it slide.
Regarding Human Saru, I don't believe it was a typo because that's not how they build their crew. The delay in announcing the new stat tells me some of the equipment needs to be rebuilt in order to lower it. I'm of two minds on this - I kind of like the idea of that Spork being the top Voyage card (with bonuses), but I'm also liking that they seem ready to push the boundaries with power creep again. Maybe a drop of about 150 on proficiency would be a nice middle ground?
Hologram, rather than costumed, surely?