Also, I'd like to note that I stopped tracking most things in this game quite awhile ago so I don't have the same meticulous records I once maintained. But after doing a cursory review of Starfleet Communications and the Wiki, I didn't see a single event since Reunion Spock and Kirk were introduced that Featured either Kirk or Spock, nor any events in which crew with any of Reunion Spock and Kirk's traits were Bonus. I may have missed something, but I doubt I missed so many somethings that Reunion Spock and Kirk have been tearing it up on the event circuit.
Last event, The Captain’s Oath, had bonus 'crew with the “inspiring” or “explorer” trait.' RSK Spock has Inspiring.
These were the 8 guaranteed non portal legendary beholds from the 8 Elusive Treasures I drew. No RSK’S, no Faltoran Spocks, and no other legendary beholds in my packs had any non portal legendary crew. I got no Anxious Kirks in any of the pulls and only four non legendary super rares: Henry Starling, Agents Dulmur and Lucsly, Cellist Adira, and B.G. Robinson. I got some cool avatars and good crew if I use a lot of citations. I know this will not soothe all players but I hope it does the majority of those outraged by RSK being in Elusive Treasures. I know some will say the odds don’t matter it is the the principle but nobody got an RSK without spending dilithium on the Anxious Kirk six pack. Some got RSK back then without even playing the event, solely by spending dilithium on the event pack for Spock as well as the six pack for Kirk. If I had had the dilithium back when the Faltoran Spock and Anxious Kirk packs were out I could have bought several RSKs with the amount of dilithium I have spent on these Elusive Treasures. The odds are not good with these Elusive Treasure packs, the costs are high, and every player who got RSK before had to spend dilithium to do so.
Random is Random. Your experience with your 8 legendary begolds is a very small sample size and definitely does not adequately characterize the experiences of everyone who drew elusive treasures packs. Its equally probable that someone who pulled 8 packs could have seen multiple RSK's. Not to mention that it was possible to get one from the elusive treasures temporary achievement behold.
Aside from essentially being a poster child for confirmation bias, your post still does not address the main issue: RSK is essentially 5 cards (1 Legendary FTP and 4 super rare Anxious Kirk's). It should not be offered as a behold choice as it is simply not the same as any other (non fuse) individual legendary crew out there. Fuse cards are special crew that have specific manners of creation.
You are right mine is a small sample size. Happy to look at others pulls and get a larger sample size. I have said I can only speak to my experience with the pack and could not speak to the full impact without hearing from others who pulled it. You have accused me of confirmation bias. I was trying to show people my experience because very few players pull these expensive elusive treasures packs and I think much of this anger came from people thinking that RSKs were dropping for lots of players pulling them. Mine was the most likely outcome. Even with that many pulls I was still under 50% chance of getting an RSK. You are incorrect in saying “it’s equally probable that someone who pulled 8 packs could have seen multiple RSK’S” when the odds of pulling an RSK is much lower than pulling him.
I have answered your other point about the unfairness of having a fused card which is essentially 1 legendary + 4 super rares in one. Elusive Treasure packs cost 10 times the price of the Spock event packs and cost of Kirk six packs. With such low odds of getting RSK in the elusive treasures pack it would very likely be much more expensive to get RSK in an elusive treasures pack than it would for those that bought the Spock from event pack and multiple Kirk six packs.
However people feel about this, the elusive treasures pack is gone now. Gonna now look forward to the Tribble Mega. Hope everyone has a good day.
How does it adversely affect me, however many other players have Reunion Spock and Kirk?
The game has a competitive aspect (events), the number of players having any card, however you want to value it, affects you.
I would refer you to the rest of my remarks on that note:
I read that, but your logic is flawed, in that you put a value on the significancy of the bonus one could have from RSK Spock as little, and therefore, not important, while in reality, it doesn't matter if the bonus is little or not, that bonus is there, and high or low, it affects others.
Respectfully, you're arguing that the mere existence of any value to Reunion Spock and Kirk is all that matters. My counterargument stands: That's esoteric.
Regardless of that, it is still a very good card, with very high stats, producing longer voyages, a good gauntlet pair and is a variant of Spock and Kirk, two characters very likely to be event crew due to their status as main characters and popularity. Anyone wiith a RSK Spock has an advantage over those that don't have it, in events, gauntlet and in the general gaming experience.
Gauntlet? At best, you'll win one CMD/SCI match. Then fatigue cuts those stats so much all you can do is wait four hours to use them again. No one is going far with Reunion Spock and Kirk in the Gauntlet. As for events, I repeat: They're useless in a Skirmish; good for only some recipes here and there in Galaxies; and can only occupy one seat on one shuttle at any given time in a Faction. That's it.
As for general gaming experience, yes, Reunion Spock and Kirk do offer players an improvement. What's my choice here? To resent that? To be threatened by it? If we want to go all the way down the esoteric argument rabbit hole, I would argue it's in my interest that my fellow players--yes, even my competitors--have a positive gaming experience.
Also, I'd like to note that I stopped tracking most things in this game quite awhile ago so I don't have the same meticulous records I once maintained. But after doing a cursory review of Starfleet Communications and the Wiki, I didn't see a single event since Reunion Spock and Kirk were introduced that Featured either Kirk or Spock, nor any events in which crew with any of Reunion Spock and Kirk's traits were Bonus. I may have missed something, but I doubt I missed so many somethings that Reunion Spock and Kirk have been tearing it up on the event circuit.
Last event, The Captain’s Oath, had bonus 'crew with the “inspiring” or “explorer” trait.' RSK Spock has Inspiring.
Is that the only one? So in all this time since the end of March, there's been one event in which Reunion Spock and Kirk were in the Bonus crew? I didn't even use Reunion Spock and Kirk in the Galaxy half. Hell, I barely used Captain Sulu. IMM Harriman and 3/5 Bateson did all the heavy lifting for me.
Aw, poor Soren. Did you take her the third time, @(HGH)Apollo?
I was hoping someone would notice that. Soren was a 5* legendary that was part of the elusive treasures exclusives.....Just like RSK.....with the same odds of dropping.....but showed up multiple times.
You are incorrect in saying “it’s equally probable that someone who pulled 8 packs could have seen multiple RSK’S” when the odds of pulling an RSK is much lower than pulling him.
Is a valid one.....unless Apollo is saying that the odds of multiple sorens is not equivalent to multiple RSK's. You see, each pack is an independent event, with no memory or concern of the prior events. So each pack has the same odds. and each legendary has the same odds of showing up, which is why Apollo saw multiple sorens, and is why it is equally probable that multiple RSK's could show up.
And yes Apollo, you are guilty of confirmation bias.
Aw, poor Soren. Did you take her the third time, @(HGH)Apollo?
I was hoping someone would notice that. Soren was a 5* legendary that was part of the elusive treasures exclusives.....Just like RSK.....with the same odds of dropping.....but showed up multiple times.
You are incorrect in saying “it’s equally probable that someone who pulled 8 packs could have seen multiple RSK’S” when the odds of pulling an RSK is much lower than pulling him.
Is a valid one.....unless Apollo is saying that the odds of multiple sorens is not equivalent to multiple RSK's. You see, each pack is an independent event, with no memory or concern of the prior events. So each pack has the same odds. and each legendary has the same odds of showing up, which is why Apollo saw multiple sorens, and is why it is equally probable that multiple RSK's could show up.
And yes Apollo, you are guilty of confirmation bias.
I'll readily concur with your characterization of odds, and agree that our pal @(HGH)Apollo has illustrated confirmation bias here. But let's say each Soren was instead a Reunion Spock and Kirk. That still doesn't answer my question of how does another player lucking into so many, or even any, of them this way devalue my Reunion Spock and Kirk?
Aw, poor Soren. Did you take her the third time, @(HGH)Apollo?
I was hoping someone would notice that. Soren was a 5* legendary that was part of the elusive treasures exclusives.....Just like RSK.....with the same odds of dropping.....but showed up multiple times.
You are incorrect in saying “it’s equally probable that someone who pulled 8 packs could have seen multiple RSK’S” when the odds of pulling an RSK is much lower than pulling him.
Is a valid one.....unless Apollo is saying that the odds of multiple sorens is not equivalent to multiple RSK's. You see, each pack is an independent event, with no memory or concern of the prior events. So each pack has the same odds. and each legendary has the same odds of showing up, which is why Apollo saw multiple sorens, and is why it is equally probable that multiple RSK's could show up.
And yes Apollo, you are guilty of confirmation bias.
I'll readily concur with your characterization of odds, and agree that our pal @(HGH)Apollo has illustrated confirmation bias here. But let's say each Soren was instead a Reunion Spock and Kirk. That still doesn't answer my question of how does another player lucking into so many, or even any, of them this way devalue my Reunion Spock and Kirk?
Because you had to pull two unique cards and use citations on one of those to enable the fusion option to unlock. Or you pulled two unique cards and multiple of one of those cards which is harder.
A unique fusion card should be just that. Unique and Fused.
I started this thread because I thought it was an oversight that would be corrected. Does it bother me? Not much. But it does devalue the achievement of a Fusion in my eyes.
Aw, poor Soren. Did you take her the third time, @(HGH)Apollo?
I was hoping someone would notice that. Soren was a 5* legendary that was part of the elusive treasures exclusives.....Just like RSK.....with the same odds of dropping.....but showed up multiple times.
You are incorrect in saying “it’s equally probable that someone who pulled 8 packs could have seen multiple RSK’S” when the odds of pulling an RSK is much lower than pulling him.
Is a valid one.....unless Apollo is saying that the odds of multiple sorens is not equivalent to multiple RSK's. You see, each pack is an independent event, with no memory or concern of the prior events. So each pack has the same odds. and each legendary has the same odds of showing up, which is why Apollo saw multiple sorens, and is why it is equally probable that multiple RSK's could show up.
And yes Apollo, you are guilty of confirmation bias.
I'll readily concur with your characterization of odds, and agree that our pal @(HGH)Apollo has illustrated confirmation bias here. But let's say each Soren was instead a Reunion Spock and Kirk. That still doesn't answer my question of how does another player lucking into so many, or even any, of them this way devalue my Reunion Spock and Kirk?
Because you had to pull two unique cards and use citations on one of those to enable the fusion option to unlock. Or you pulled two unique cards and multiple of one of those cards which is harder.
I only pulled one; I competed for the other. In my estimation, competing for Fal-tor-pan Spock was harder than pulling him in a pack would have been. I am reminded, though, of when citations came out and there was debate among some of our fellow players about whether those devalued fuse cards. It struck me as absurd, because fuse cards were largely a vanity project anyway. "Look at me, I have so many crew slots I can afford to squander several at a time just so one day months from now I can have The Duras Sisters!" If you take some form of pride in that, knock yourself out but at least be aware how silly it is.
A unique fusion card should be just that. Unique and Fused.
But why? Specifically, what's the actual harm that this time, it wasn't?
Is that the only one? So in all this time since the end of March, there's been one event in which Reunion Spock and Kirk were in the Bonus crew? I didn't even use Reunion Spock and Kirk in the Galaxy half. Hell, I barely used Captain Sulu. IMM Harriman and 3/5 Bateson did all the heavy lifting for me.
Nop, it's the only one I checked . First event I look, RSK is bonus crew, just to prove that your research and the claim that not one event featured the traits was totally baseless.
How does it adversely affect me, however many other players have Reunion Spock and Kirk?
The game has a competitive aspect (events), the number of players having any card, however you want to value it, affects you.
I would refer you to the rest of my remarks on that note:
I read that, but your logic is flawed, in that you put a value on the significancy of the bonus one could have from RSK Spock as little, and therefore, not important, while in reality, it doesn't matter if the bonus is little or not, that bonus is there, and high or low, it affects others.
Respectfully, you're arguing that the mere existence of any value to Reunion Spock and Kirk is all that matters. My counterargument stands: That's esoteric.
Of course that any value is what matters. The in game value of any card (be it for stats or just popularity of the character) is the only reason to play ti acquire it. Would you care to play if all cards were equal, and/or all the same character?
Regardless of that, it is still a very good card, with very high stats, producing longer voyages, a good gauntlet pair and is a variant of Spock and Kirk, two characters very likely to be event crew due to their status as main characters and popularity. Anyone wiith a RSK Spock has an advantage over those that don't have it, in events, gauntlet and in the general gaming experience.
Gauntlet? At best, you'll win one CMD/SCI match. Then fatigue cuts those stats so much all you can do is wait four hours to use them again. No one is going far with Reunion Spock and Kirk in the Gauntlet. As for events, I repeat: They're useless in a Skirmish; good for only some recipes here and there in Galaxies; and can only occupy one seat on one shuttle at any given time in a Faction. That's it.
As for general gaming experience, yes, Reunion Spock and Kirk do offer players an improvement. What's my choice here? To resent that? To be threatened by it? If we want to go all the way down the esoteric argument rabbit hole, I would argue it's in my interest that my fellow players--yes, even my competitors--have a positive gaming experience.
Every thing you can say about RSK you can do worse with 99% of the rest of the cards. Gauntlet? Probably less than 10 card don't match that criteria, and while maybe RSK Spock is not the end all, is still has very decent stats. Your remarks about Skirmish, Factions and Galaxies are valid for every card, and yet again, RSK is at least above most of the rest in stats. If RSK Spock is not worth the trouble, almost every card in the game is not worth it as well. And while you are entitled to not care for those differences, is not fair for others to not care for what are very core aspects of the game (stats and traits that make it much more valuable than others)
Just to reiterate, from datacore: Tier 1 crew, Voyage #1 CMD / DIP / SCI, Voyage #1 CMD / SCI, Gauntlet #9 CMD / SCI, Base #4 SCI.
How does it adversely affect me, however many other players have Reunion Spock and Kirk?
The game has a competitive aspect (events), the number of players having any card, however you want to value it, affects you.
I would refer you to the rest of my remarks on that note:
I read that, but your logic is flawed, in that you put a value on the significancy of the bonus one could have from RSK Spock as little, and therefore, not important, while in reality, it doesn't matter if the bonus is little or not, that bonus is there, and high or low, it affects others.
Respectfully, you're arguing that the mere existence of any value to Reunion Spock and Kirk is all that matters. My counterargument stands: That's esoteric.
Of course that any value is what matters. The in game value of any card (be it for stats or just popularity of the character) is the only reason to play ti acquire it. Would you care to play if all cards were equal, and/or all the same character?
Regardless of that, it is still a very good card, with very high stats, producing longer voyages, a good gauntlet pair and is a variant of Spock and Kirk, two characters very likely to be event crew due to their status as main characters and popularity. Anyone wiith a RSK Spock has an advantage over those that don't have it, in events, gauntlet and in the general gaming experience.
Gauntlet? At best, you'll win one CMD/SCI match. Then fatigue cuts those stats so much all you can do is wait four hours to use them again. No one is going far with Reunion Spock and Kirk in the Gauntlet. As for events, I repeat: They're useless in a Skirmish; good for only some recipes here and there in Galaxies; and can only occupy one seat on one shuttle at any given time in a Faction. That's it.
As for general gaming experience, yes, Reunion Spock and Kirk do offer players an improvement. What's my choice here? To resent that? To be threatened by it? If we want to go all the way down the esoteric argument rabbit hole, I would argue it's in my interest that my fellow players--yes, even my competitors--have a positive gaming experience.
Every thing you can say about RSK you can do worse with 99% of the rest of the cards. Gauntlet? Probably less than 10 card don't match that criteria, and while maybe RSK Spock is not the end all, is still has very decent stats. Your remarks about Skirmish, Factions and Galaxies are valid for every card, and yet again, RSK is at least above most of the rest in stats. If RSK Spock is not worth the trouble, almost every card in the game is not worth it as well. And while you are entitled to not care for those differences, is not fair for others to not care for what are very core aspects of the game (stats and traits that make it much more valuable than others)
Just to reiterate, from datacore: Tier 1 crew, Voyage #1 CMD / DIP / SCI, Voyage #1 CMD / SCI, Gauntlet #9 CMD / SCI, Base #4 SCI.
Hardly just any other card.
*sigh*
You're vacillating between arguments, and I think it's because you're just hellbent on being outraged. I'll break it down as simply as I can:
Does Reunion Spock and Kirk have high game value?
-Yes, which is why I went to the trouble of competing to earn Fal-tor-pan Spock, bought packs to get Anxious Kirk, and burned through a cumulative seven citations back in March.
Does Reunion Spock and Kirk's game value make them the Alpha and Omega of the game?
-Not at all. A player can hit their objectives without Reunion Spock and Kirk just fine, provided their crew is sufficiently developed.
Does not having Reunion Spock and Kirk disadvantage a player versus another player who has them?
-Not intrinsically. If the two crews are otherwise comprised of weaker crew, sure. But a player whose only advantage over another's is Reunion Spock and Kirk is going to be easily overcome head-to-head by other players for myriad other reasons.
Is the value of Reunion Spock and Kirk diminished by their inclusion in the latest Elusive Treasures pack?
-No. Their game value is only for the player who has them. Their existence in other crews is irrelevant.
Did the inclusion of Reunion Spock and Kirk in the latest Elusive Treasures pack insult the effort that went into acquiring/fusing them in March?
-Only if one wants to be insulted.
I don't recognize your screen name, and I apologize if you've been around long enough that I should. I don't know how long you've been playing. I can tell you're still dazzled by "Tier 1" stuff. What I'm telling you as someone who's been it since shortly after launch is that quite some time back, the game hit a plateau. A 2021 Tier 1 doesn't make nearly the impact that, say, a 2018 Tier 1 made.
Your Voyage reaches 10h,54m instead of 10h,29m. But it still crashes well before 12h. Your Faction event is still decided by shuttle requisition tokens and time reducer boosts far more than is decided by the crew assigned to those shuttles. Your Galaxy event is still decided by your chronitons, inventory, and patience more than the crew you use to craft them. And your Gauntlet still doesn't rely on anyone who has two stats with a minimum in the 100's.
If you wanna be insulted and betrayed and furious, have at it. It's your God-given, constitutionally-protected right, and on top of all that, it's in vogue right now so all the cool kids are doing it, too. I've said my piece and made the effort to break through, and by now I'm out of material. If I haven't said the magic words by now, I'm not gonna.
Does Reunion Spock and Kirk have high game value?
-Yes, which is why I went to the trouble of competing to earn Fal-tor-pan Spock, bought packs to get Anxious Kirk, and burned through a cumulative seven citations back in March.
Does Reunion Spock and Kirk's game value make them the Alpha and Omega of the game?
-Not at all. A player can hit their objectives without Reunion Spock and Kirk just fine, provided their crew is sufficiently developed.
Second point is arguable, but in the end it doesn't matter, it's not the point
Does not having Reunion Spock and Kirk disadvantage a player versus another player who has them?
-Not intrinsically. If the two crews are otherwise comprised of weaker crew, sure. But a player whose only advantage over another's is Reunion Spock and Kirk is going to be easily overcome head-to-head by other players for myriad other reasons.
Yes, it's a disadvatage. Two players with otherwise same cards and stats, if one has the card is, no matter how little, above the one who doesn't have it Having a card, any card, is an advantage. There is no downside, except for the used crew slot. You are very wrong (or misleading) here
Is the value of Reunion Spock and Kirk diminished by their inclusion in the latest Elusive Treasures pack?
-No. Their game value is only for the player who has them. Their existence in other crews is irrelevant.
Wrong, the value of the card tends to be null the more player have it, due to the competitive aspect of the game and the undeniable advantage stated above. If everyone has the card, no one has any advantage from it, the more players who have it, the less players you have an edge on.
Did the inclusion of Reunion Spock and Kirk in the latest Elusive Treasures pack insult the effort that went into acquiring/fusing them in March?
-Only if one wants to be insulted.
And that it's only between said player and the people behind the game. The rest should mind their own business and not care if others are feeling insulted, a little, a lot, sad, whatever.
I don't recognize your screen name, and I apologize if you've been around long enough that I should. I don't know how long you've been playing. I can tell you're still dazzled by "Tier 1" stuff. What I'm telling you as someone who's been it since shortly after launch is that quite some time back, the game hit a plateau. A 2021 Tier 1 doesn't make nearly the impact that, say, a 2018 Tier 1 made.
Good, at least you recognize that it makes an impact.
How does it adversely affect me, however many other players have Reunion Spock and Kirk?
The game has a competitive aspect (events), the number of players having any card, however you want to value it, affects you.
I would refer you to the rest of my remarks on that note:
I read that, but your logic is flawed, in that you put a value on the significancy of the bonus one could have from RSK Spock as little, and therefore, not important, while in reality, it doesn't matter if the bonus is little or not, that bonus is there, and high or low, it affects others.
Respectfully, you're arguing that the mere existence of any value to Reunion Spock and Kirk is all that matters. My counterargument stands: That's esoteric.
Of course that any value is what matters. The in game value of any card (be it for stats or just popularity of the character) is the only reason to play ti acquire it. Would you care to play if all cards were equal, and/or all the same character?
Regardless of that, it is still a very good card, with very high stats, producing longer voyages, a good gauntlet pair and is a variant of Spock and Kirk, two characters very likely to be event crew due to their status as main characters and popularity. Anyone wiith a RSK Spock has an advantage over those that don't have it, in events, gauntlet and in the general gaming experience.
Gauntlet? At best, you'll win one CMD/SCI match. Then fatigue cuts those stats so much all you can do is wait four hours to use them again. No one is going far with Reunion Spock and Kirk in the Gauntlet. As for events, I repeat: They're useless in a Skirmish; good for only some recipes here and there in Galaxies; and can only occupy one seat on one shuttle at any given time in a Faction. That's it.
As for general gaming experience, yes, Reunion Spock and Kirk do offer players an improvement. What's my choice here? To resent that? To be threatened by it? If we want to go all the way down the esoteric argument rabbit hole, I would argue it's in my interest that my fellow players--yes, even my competitors--have a positive gaming experience.
Every thing you can say about RSK you can do worse with 99% of the rest of the cards. Gauntlet? Probably less than 10 card don't match that criteria, and while maybe RSK Spock is not the end all, is still has very decent stats. Your remarks about Skirmish, Factions and Galaxies are valid for every card, and yet again, RSK is at least above most of the rest in stats. If RSK Spock is not worth the trouble, almost every card in the game is not worth it as well. And while you are entitled to not care for those differences, is not fair for others to not care for what are very core aspects of the game (stats and traits that make it much more valuable than others)
Just to reiterate, from datacore: Tier 1 crew, Voyage #1 CMD / DIP / SCI, Voyage #1 CMD / SCI, Gauntlet #9 CMD / SCI, Base #4 SCI.
Hardly just any other card.
*sigh*
You're vacillating between arguments, and I think it's because you're just hellbent on being outraged. I'll break it down as simply as I can:
If Kanon is hellbent on being outraged over RSK, you sure seem hellbent on refuting that stance. Just an observation; and I am honestly not trying to be snarky with that.
I personally don’t think this special style of fusion character should be offered already “joined” in a pack. I am all for giving people the same chance to obtain the necessary elements. I find that stuff fun, but I may be in the minority on that.
In the end, we all have our different tastes.
LLAP
“A committee is a cul-de-sac, down which good ideas are lured and quietly strangled.” —Mark TwainMEMBER: [BoB] Barrel of Bloodwine... We are recruiting and putting the “curv” in scurvy! Best Event Finish: #3 Honor Debt: Inconceivable...Honor Bank Account: Slowly building...
So as to not be accused of attempting a mental health diagnosis, @Kanon you appear to be deliberately obtuse and ignoring virtually all the truth @Travis S McClain has been VERY patiently trying to explain to you. You keep throwing around the word "competitive" while completely disregarding what Travis is saying on the subject, so let me put it this way...
...let's say Q snaps his fingers and locks you and I in a head-to-head Faction event for four days where Reunion Kirk and Spock are event crew. He gives you 12 copies of Reunion Kirk and Spock and takes mine away, I'm still going to beat you unless you match my effort and willingness to spend resources. Individual card power is not the determining factor of competitiveness in STT.
I fought hard to win Spock in that event, I bought packs to get multiple copies of Kirk, heck I dropped $100 of my stimmy money buying the Spock offer AND an extra $25 on the DYC to immortalize both Spock and Reunion Kirk and Spock, meaning I've had Reunion Kirk and Spock immortalized since literally day 1. Do I care that people can get that card now easier than I did? NO! I've been around long enough to know the risks but I didn't care, that card was REALLY cool and I wanted it, that's it. And yeah I'm not going to sit here and lie and say Reunion Kirk and Spock hasn't been a useful card for several events, I mean it counts as both a Kirk AND a Spock, I'm pretty sure I have that card on an event shuttle right now! But we're talking about maybe a 1% boost, maybe 0%, it's not really important. Plus, say somebody who didn't previously have the card got one a few days ago, so what?
I'd like to echo the sentiments and wisdom shared by folks like @Paladin 27, @Frank?, (A) Traveling Man, Travis, and others: this decision was a little surprising and slightly disappointing, the lack of communication was typically non-existent, but otherwise not a big deal.
okay guys this is getting a little out of hand. RSK is in the pack. okay for some people, not okay for others. we don’t have to get this many paragraphs and this many angry messages about it, let’s be a little more civil my friends before shan closes this down! 🖖
“What's a knockout like you doing in a computer-generated gin joint like this?”
Proud member of Patterns of Force
Captain Level 99
Played since January 2017
I'd appreciate if we might refrain from characterizing anything in this thread to being an illustration of mental illness. On that note, I'm unsubscribing from this thread and won't see any further updates but if anyone ever wants to bend someone's ear, you're welcome to message me privately.
...Didn't there used to be a way to unsubscribe from a thread? I can't find it.
...Didn't there used to be a way to unsubscribe from a thread? I can't find it.
Hi @Travis S McClain, I think if you click the settings cog up in the top right and click Preferences, it takes you to a list of tickboxes for your notification preferences, you want "Notify me when people comment on discussions I've participated in".
As I previously stated, we all have differthings that annoy the **** out of us that hardly bother anyone else. Nothing wrong with that. I am not bothered by the inclusion of the cards, though I agree it should not have been included. I won mine and cited it up long ago.
But my crew is developed enough that in the last event I hardly used the card. If I hadn't had it, I would have done just as well. I don't think I used it more than once.
On a different note, bit still somewhat related, I will be annoyed if Tribble Quark is obtainable in a couple weeks. But that is a bit different since we were assured after the Mirror Picard debacle that mega cards would not be so soon offered. It is this assurance that had me always citing the mega crew. Anything sooner than 6 months for a mega card will annoy me.
So feel free to be annoyed. Just understand that others are not.
this game just loves scamming people. ive been seeing some interesting ads for fleet command lately with various actors from the franchise. been really thinking of trying that one
...Didn't there used to be a way to unsubscribe from a thread? I can't find it.
Hi @Travis S McClain, I think if you click the settings cog up in the top right and click Preferences, it takes you to a list of tickboxes for your notification preferences, you want "Notify me when people comment on discussions I've participated in".
Yeah, that's all I could find. I thought for sure there was a way to de-select specific threads, though. Oh, well. Thanks just the same, @Steph loves Voyager!
I'd appreciate if we might refrain from characterizing anything in this thread to being an illustration of mental illness. On that note, I'm unsubscribing from this thread and won't see any further updates but if anyone ever wants to bend someone's ear, you're welcome to message me privately.
...Didn't there used to be a way to unsubscribe from a thread? I can't find it.
To be perfectly clear you NEVER made any such accusations.
EDITED FOR BEING NON-CONSTRUCTIVE
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
So as to not be accused of attempting a mental health diagnosis, @Kanon you appear to be deliberately obtuse and ignoring virtually all the truth @Travis S McClain has been VERY patiently trying to explain to you. You keep throwing around the word "competitive" while completely disregarding what Travis is saying on the subject, so let me put it this way...
...let's say Q snaps his fingers and locks you and I in a head-to-head Faction event for four days where Reunion Kirk and Spock are event crew. He gives you 12 copies of Reunion Kirk and Spock and takes mine away, I'm still going to beat you unless you match my effort and willingness to spend resources. Individual card power is not the determining factor of competitiveness in STT.
Please, no need to call me obtuse.
Every example trying to explain why RSK Spock (or any card for that matter) goes like this: "If you have the card, and someone else has the card, it doesn't matter 'cause wins the one that has more/some other resources"
Which is fundamentally wrong, 'cause it's ignoring that RSK Spock IS a resource, and more important, puts a lot of other resources to counter the value of RSK Spock. If you have to put "effort and willingness to spend resources" to match the other player having RSK Spock, there you actually proving that RSK Spock has as much (or close) value than those efforts and resources spent.
If you wanna imagine Q snapping his fingers to test the value of RSK, imagine two players, equal in every aspect: level inventory, cards, every amount of currency, virtually identical in every way, except for RSK Spock. One has it, the other doesn't. They play the same event Who has the advantage? (even if small) Who wins if they put the same time, effort or money?
I'd appreciate if we might refrain from characterizing anything in this thread to being an illustration of mental illness. On that note, I'm unsubscribing from this thread and won't see any further updates but if anyone ever wants to bend someone's ear, you're welcome to message me privately.
...Didn't there used to be a way to unsubscribe from a thread? I can't find it.
To be perfectly clear you NEVER made any such accusations. The person with the issue just had plenty of straw to build with, I guess.
What is the purpose to comment on someone's perceived state of mind? I never made any comment in an aggresive or insulting manner. Resorting to comment that I apper to be obtuse, or seem hellbento to be enraged when it doesn't have anything to do with the points being discussed, is name calling without the name calling.
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You are right mine is a small sample size. Happy to look at others pulls and get a larger sample size. I have said I can only speak to my experience with the pack and could not speak to the full impact without hearing from others who pulled it. You have accused me of confirmation bias. I was trying to show people my experience because very few players pull these expensive elusive treasures packs and I think much of this anger came from people thinking that RSKs were dropping for lots of players pulling them. Mine was the most likely outcome. Even with that many pulls I was still under 50% chance of getting an RSK. You are incorrect in saying “it’s equally probable that someone who pulled 8 packs could have seen multiple RSK’S” when the odds of pulling an RSK is much lower than pulling him.
I have answered your other point about the unfairness of having a fused card which is essentially 1 legendary + 4 super rares in one. Elusive Treasure packs cost 10 times the price of the Spock event packs and cost of Kirk six packs. With such low odds of getting RSK in the elusive treasures pack it would very likely be much more expensive to get RSK in an elusive treasures pack than it would for those that bought the Spock from event pack and multiple Kirk six packs.
However people feel about this, the elusive treasures pack is gone now. Gonna now look forward to the Tribble Mega. Hope everyone has a good day.
"We're trying something new" is likely the full response. They will not walk it back this late, even if it was as mistake and they were covering it.
Respectfully, you're arguing that the mere existence of any value to Reunion Spock and Kirk is all that matters. My counterargument stands: That's esoteric.
Gauntlet?
As for general gaming experience, yes, Reunion Spock and Kirk do offer players an improvement. What's my choice here? To resent that? To be threatened by it? If we want to go all the way down the esoteric argument rabbit hole, I would argue it's in my interest that my fellow players--yes, even my competitors--have a positive gaming experience.
Is that the only one? So in all this time since the end of March, there's been one event in which Reunion Spock and Kirk were in the Bonus crew? I didn't even use Reunion Spock and Kirk in the Galaxy half. Hell, I barely used Captain Sulu. IMM Harriman and 3/5 Bateson did all the heavy lifting for me.
Aw, poor Soren. Did you take her the third time, @(HGH)Apollo?
I was hoping someone would notice that. Soren was a 5* legendary that was part of the elusive treasures exclusives.....Just like RSK.....with the same odds of dropping.....but showed up multiple times.
My earlier point:: *SNIP*
Is a valid one.....unless Apollo is saying that the odds of multiple sorens is not equivalent to multiple RSK's. You see, each pack is an independent event, with no memory or concern of the prior events. So each pack has the same odds. and each legendary has the same odds of showing up, which is why Apollo saw multiple sorens, and is why it is equally probable that multiple RSK's could show up.
And yes Apollo, you are guilty of confirmation bias.
I'll readily concur with your characterization of odds, and agree that our pal @(HGH)Apollo has illustrated confirmation bias here. But let's say each Soren was instead a Reunion Spock and Kirk. That still doesn't answer my question of how does another player lucking into so many, or even any, of them this way devalue my Reunion Spock and Kirk?
Because you had to pull two unique cards and use citations on one of those to enable the fusion option to unlock. Or you pulled two unique cards and multiple of one of those cards which is harder.
A unique fusion card should be just that. Unique and Fused.
I started this thread because I thought it was an oversight that would be corrected. Does it bother me? Not much. But it does devalue the achievement of a Fusion in my eyes.
I only pulled one; I competed for the other. In my estimation, competing for Fal-tor-pan Spock was harder than pulling him in a pack would have been. I am reminded, though, of when citations came out and there was debate among some of our fellow players about whether those devalued fuse cards. It struck me as absurd, because fuse cards were largely a vanity project anyway. "Look at me, I have so many crew slots I can afford to squander several at a time just so one day months from now I can have The Duras Sisters!" If you take some form of pride in that, knock yourself out but at least be aware how silly it is.
But why? Specifically, what's the actual harm that this time, it wasn't?
That's an easy one:
A fusion card is not a fusion card when WRG believes that they can make money by offering it in a different way.
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Every thing you can say about RSK you can do worse with 99% of the rest of the cards. Gauntlet? Probably less than 10 card don't match that criteria, and while maybe RSK Spock is not the end all, is still has very decent stats. Your remarks about Skirmish, Factions and Galaxies are valid for every card, and yet again, RSK is at least above most of the rest in stats. If RSK Spock is not worth the trouble, almost every card in the game is not worth it as well. And while you are entitled to not care for those differences, is not fair for others to not care for what are very core aspects of the game (stats and traits that make it much more valuable than others)
Just to reiterate, from datacore: Tier 1 crew, Voyage #1 CMD / DIP / SCI, Voyage #1 CMD / SCI, Gauntlet #9 CMD / SCI, Base #4 SCI.
Hardly just any other card.
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*sigh*
You're vacillating between arguments, and I think it's because you're just hellbent on being outraged. I'll break it down as simply as I can:
Does Reunion Spock and Kirk have high game value?
-Yes, which is why I went to the trouble of competing to earn Fal-tor-pan Spock, bought packs to get Anxious Kirk, and burned through a cumulative seven citations back in March.
Does Reunion Spock and Kirk's game value make them the Alpha and Omega of the game?
-Not at all. A player can hit their objectives without Reunion Spock and Kirk just fine, provided their crew is sufficiently developed.
Does not having Reunion Spock and Kirk disadvantage a player versus another player who has them?
-Not intrinsically. If the two crews are otherwise comprised of weaker crew, sure. But a player whose only advantage over another's is Reunion Spock and Kirk is going to be easily overcome head-to-head by other players for myriad other reasons.
Is the value of Reunion Spock and Kirk diminished by their inclusion in the latest Elusive Treasures pack?
-No. Their game value is only for the player who has them. Their existence in other crews is irrelevant.
Did the inclusion of Reunion Spock and Kirk in the latest Elusive Treasures pack insult the effort that went into acquiring/fusing them in March?
-Only if one wants to be insulted.
I don't recognize your screen name, and I apologize if you've been around long enough that I should. I don't know how long you've been playing. I can tell you're still dazzled by "Tier 1" stuff. What I'm telling you as someone who's been it since shortly after launch is that quite some time back, the game hit a plateau. A 2021 Tier 1 doesn't make nearly the impact that, say, a 2018 Tier 1 made.
Your Voyage reaches 10h,54m instead of 10h,29m. But it still crashes well before 12h. Your Faction event is still decided by shuttle requisition tokens and time reducer boosts far more than is decided by the crew assigned to those shuttles. Your Galaxy event is still decided by your chronitons, inventory, and patience more than the crew you use to craft them. And your Gauntlet still doesn't rely on anyone who has two stats with a minimum in the 100's.
If you wanna be insulted and betrayed and furious, have at it. It's your God-given, constitutionally-protected right, and on top of all that, it's in vogue right now so all the cool kids are doing it, too. I've said my piece and made the effort to break through, and by now I'm out of material. If I haven't said the magic words by now, I'm not gonna.
Second point is arguable, but in the end it doesn't matter, it's not the point Yes, it's a disadvatage. Two players with otherwise same cards and stats, if one has the card is, no matter how little, above the one who doesn't have it Having a card, any card, is an advantage. There is no downside, except for the used crew slot. You are very wrong (or misleading) here
Wrong, the value of the card tends to be null the more player have it, due to the competitive aspect of the game and the undeniable advantage stated above. If everyone has the card, no one has any advantage from it, the more players who have it, the less players you have an edge on.
And that it's only between said player and the people behind the game. The rest should mind their own business and not care if others are feeling insulted, a little, a lot, sad, whatever.
Good, at least you recognize that it makes an impact.
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If Kanon is hellbent on being outraged over RSK, you sure seem hellbent on refuting that stance. Just an observation; and I am honestly not trying to be snarky with that.
I personally don’t think this special style of fusion character should be offered already “joined” in a pack. I am all for giving people the same chance to obtain the necessary elements. I find that stuff fun, but I may be in the minority on that.
In the end, we all have our different tastes.
LLAP
...let's say Q snaps his fingers and locks you and I in a head-to-head Faction event for four days where Reunion Kirk and Spock are event crew. He gives you 12 copies of Reunion Kirk and Spock and takes mine away, I'm still going to beat you unless you match my effort and willingness to spend resources. Individual card power is not the determining factor of competitiveness in STT.
I fought hard to win Spock in that event, I bought packs to get multiple copies of Kirk, heck I dropped $100 of my stimmy money buying the Spock offer AND an extra $25 on the DYC to immortalize both Spock and Reunion Kirk and Spock, meaning I've had Reunion Kirk and Spock immortalized since literally day 1. Do I care that people can get that card now easier than I did? NO! I've been around long enough to know the risks but I didn't care, that card was REALLY cool and I wanted it, that's it. And yeah I'm not going to sit here and lie and say Reunion Kirk and Spock hasn't been a useful card for several events, I mean it counts as both a Kirk AND a Spock, I'm pretty sure I have that card on an event shuttle right now! But we're talking about maybe a 1% boost, maybe 0%, it's not really important. Plus, say somebody who didn't previously have the card got one a few days ago, so what?
I'd like to echo the sentiments and wisdom shared by folks like @Paladin 27, @Frank?, (A) Traveling Man, Travis, and others: this decision was a little surprising and slightly disappointing, the lack of communication was typically non-existent, but otherwise not a big deal.
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TP: Do better!!!
...Didn't there used to be a way to unsubscribe from a thread? I can't find it.
Hi @Travis S McClain, I think if you click the settings cog up in the top right and click Preferences, it takes you to a list of tickboxes for your notification preferences, you want "Notify me when people comment on discussions I've participated in".
But my crew is developed enough that in the last event I hardly used the card. If I hadn't had it, I would have done just as well. I don't think I used it more than once.
On a different note, bit still somewhat related, I will be annoyed if Tribble Quark is obtainable in a couple weeks. But that is a bit different since we were assured after the Mirror Picard debacle that mega cards would not be so soon offered. It is this assurance that had me always citing the mega crew. Anything sooner than 6 months for a mega card will annoy me.
So feel free to be annoyed. Just understand that others are not.
Yeah, that's all I could find. I thought for sure there was a way to de-select specific threads, though. Oh, well. Thanks just the same, @Steph loves Voyager!
To be perfectly clear you NEVER made any such accusations.
EDITED FOR BEING NON-CONSTRUCTIVE
Every example trying to explain why RSK Spock (or any card for that matter) goes like this: "If you have the card, and someone else has the card, it doesn't matter 'cause wins the one that has more/some other resources"
Which is fundamentally wrong, 'cause it's ignoring that RSK Spock IS a resource, and more important, puts a lot of other resources to counter the value of RSK Spock. If you have to put "effort and willingness to spend resources" to match the other player having RSK Spock, there you actually proving that RSK Spock has as much (or close) value than those efforts and resources spent.
If you wanna imagine Q snapping his fingers to test the value of RSK, imagine two players, equal in every aspect: level inventory, cards, every amount of currency, virtually identical in every way, except for RSK Spock. One has it, the other doesn't. They play the same event Who has the advantage? (even if small) Who wins if they put the same time, effort or money?
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