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FBB upcoming fix + Updates - 2022-07-22 - Edit 2022-07-28

ShanShan admin
edited July 28 in The Bridge
Use this thread to discuss our latest communique about FBB.

https://forum.wickedrealmgames.com/stt/discussion/19533/fleet-boss-battles-upcoming-fix-and-some-updates-2022-07-22/

We'll review comments next week, thank you :)

For visibility, reposting this update here as well.

We’ve had a lot of discussions this past few days regarding the fact that node unlocking can require crew not yet available via Crew Retrieval/Time Portal.

We understand the pain point it creates and we are working on a solution.
The fix that is being worked on would ensure that traits used for node unlocking only are pulled from crew currently available via Crew Retrieval.

We’re currently hoping to release this change next week, with our weekly server release.

In the meantime should you encounter a node that is locked by a crew not yet available via Crew Retrieval, please submit a ticket (1 per fleet/per battle) to support.

As the subject line please use ‘FBB Manual Unlock’ and explain the situation in detail.
This will ensure that those tickets will be more visible and handled more efficiently.


The team will do their best to handle these tickets as quickly as possible, but there is no guarantee that they all will get a reply in time, especially on the weekend.

Thank you for your patience and understanding while we continue to iterate on this feature.
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Comments

  • WaldoMagWaldoMag ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 22
    I like the way the unlocking currently works. I understand what you intended. But, I also have to say if you are planning on some reward for unlocking combos, you may be right in having to change it back to the way you originally intended.

    The reason I like the way it currently works , is because if I can cover all the possible traits (this means only traits that can exist with combo seat trait for all seats that can be matched by one crew for each seat) I can then unlock all the combos at one go.

    However, if you are coming out with some reward system, I think you will have to allow more players to take part in unlocking combos. It is dependent on your rewards you plan to give for unlocking combos whether it would be good for one person to collect all that tier and then quickly start on the next tier and be collecting the rewards.

    But from what I read I do like the things you are talking about.

    One important matter, not sure if it is being addressed. But, I believe the crew I used on Easy difficulty are locked on that ship.

    No looks like they are available at least from attack screen. They may be locked out on combo screen. I will have to wait until next battle to figure that out.

    Is there going to be any thought of limiting the crew to portal available crew?
  • AviTrekAviTrek ✭✭✭✭✭
    Webberoni wrote: »
    AviTrek wrote: »
    I don't think this combo buff addresses the issue. It still means that players working to unlock traits spend merits and do less damage. So they are hurt and the benefit goes to the fleet. And the reduced damage means everyone in the fleet loses the chance to earn more individual rewards themselves.

    I think the buff is intended to ensure they do substantially more damage in later attacks, essentially offsetting (at least) the damage lost by focusing on a node.

    But the total damage available is still the total damage available. If you provide a boost it lets the players in the battle earn more. But that means less players in the fleet can participate. And since the players in the battle didn't get credit for the trait hit, they're incentivized to do more damage with the boost to hit the individual max. So we're still looking at 30% reduction from traits and then a few players maxing out.

    Maybe on nightmare and ultra nightmare it will play out differently where you really need the traits. But I don't see this changing anything for hard or lower.
  • Bylo BandBylo Band ✭✭✭✭✭
    My initial thoughts.

    1. This switch to requiring one card to solve each node should make solving the puzzles of each individual node more of a challenge in line with a scavenger hunt, more fun, and with good communication probably easier to deduce.

    2. It will also greatly stress crew slot and merit management as it will require much more freezing/thawing to get the exact card needed to unlock the node.

    3. It will also create a big problem if the one card needed to unlock the node is not owned by anyone in the fleet.
  • WebberoniWebberoni ✭✭✭✭✭
    AviTrek wrote: »
    Webberoni wrote: »
    AviTrek wrote: »
    I don't think this combo buff addresses the issue. It still means that players working to unlock traits spend merits and do less damage. So they are hurt and the benefit goes to the fleet. And the reduced damage means everyone in the fleet loses the chance to earn more individual rewards themselves.

    I think the buff is intended to ensure they do substantially more damage in later attacks, essentially offsetting (at least) the damage lost by focusing on a node.

    But the total damage available is still the total damage available. If you provide a boost it lets the players in the battle earn more. But that means less players in the fleet can participate. And since the players in the battle didn't get credit for the trait hit, they're incentivized to do more damage with the boost to hit the individual max. So we're still looking at 30% reduction from traits and then a few players maxing out.

    Maybe on nightmare and ultra nightmare it will play out differently where you really need the traits. But I don't see this changing anything for hard or lower.

    My bad, I misunderstood. I thought you meant for the individual players who were trying to unlock the nodes. I think this buff addresses the issues from that standpoint, but agree that it does nothing from a fleet standpoint.

    A strong enough fleet should just forego the nodes altogether and just do 100% damage via attacks, to try and maximize the number of players who qualify for rewards. I still think all players on the leaderboard should get some of the individual rewards, rather than limiting that and creating competition between fleet members.

    Generally speaking, unlocking nodes to do big damage should help the entire fleet, not harm individual players one way or another.
  • [SSR] GTMET[SSR] GTMET ✭✭✭✭✭
    2 concerns about the future combo points buff idea because as discribed it doesn’t seem to address the problem which is spending valor to support the fleet, and not getting to a personal threshold.

    1) whatever you do needs to be for clearing a node, not completing a combo. People burn valor to chip away at the combo not just the person who finishes it, the fix is pointless without addressing that.

    2) buffing future battles doesn’t help if you spent your valor clearing nodes. What valor am I supposed to use the buffs on? Will the buffs increase damage output 2-3x?

    In a nutshell, on nightmare, if I spend 4 valor clearing nodes, I get 8-9 million damage total. If I spend 4 valor attacking the boss I get 30-35 million. This is what your solution needs to fix.How about 5 million bonus points per node (not actual dmg just personal dmg) this would be fair and balance it nicely.

    I get you are trying for some cool fix, how about listening to your players, we shouldn’t punish the people who enjoy the puzzle of clearing nodes. Just make it equitable to fighting the boss directly.

    You built an awesome and fun feature, don’t punish me for trying to use it

    If there is something about our solution that doesn’t work or achieve a goal let us know and maybe we can help come up with a solution. But this isn’t it.
  • RookiebatmanRookiebatman ✭✭✭
    Copied from the FBB feedback thread, where I posted because I didn't know about this thread...
    Shan wrote:
    How it’s currently working:

    - a node can be unlocked by using multiple crew who each have one of the required traits to unlock the node.

    How it should be working:

    - a node can only be unlocked by using 1 crew having the correct set of required traits.

    Interesting that they're rushing to "fix" this little quirk that actually helped people, but are not prioritizing the restriction of node-unlocking crew to be someone who's already in the portal. In other words, they've taken our feedback about how frustrating it is for nodes to require frozen crew, or crew that people just don't even have at all, and they're taking prompt, deliberate action to make those problems more likely to happen.

    But hey, it's all good because they're giving us a care package with enough merits to thaw barely more than two people a day for one week. That should make up for the long-term issues with this mode that they're actively making worse. :/
    Shan wrote:
    Completing a combo will grant each fleet member with a same temporary buff to a ship stat, and this for the remainder of the boss battle. The effectiveness of the buff given will be rolled and will be random based on specific parameters.

    ...This will make each boss battle run different from your previous run, and we are hoping that receiving a buff will encourage you to experiment with ship and crew loadout to do the most damage possible. This system will also help players do more damage.

    I don't understand how this is supposed to have that effect. If different battles have different buffs, then using different crew tells me less about which crew is better, because I can never be sure whether more damage was the result of the crew or the buffs. Isolating variables is the way to get helpful data, not adding more variables. One thing I liked about FBB was that you could make apples-to-apples comparisons of different crews, because you were fighting the same enemy every time, as compared to Arena where you never know if this crew was better or that enemy was just weaker (and yes, I know there is some RNG here, but it's not nearly as bad as going up against a completely different ship and crew).

    I know I might come off like I'm just seeing the glass half empty with everything here, but I sincerely don't understand why they think this would make players more likely to experiment with ship and crew loadouts.
  • This Sisko1This Sisko1 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sometimes I only get a million in nightmare mode when I'm cleaning up nodes. I average 8 million currently so needing a bonus for node cleaning is a must.
  • W.W. CarlisleW.W. Carlisle ✭✭✭✭✭
    Technically, depending on what you are doing to get around the freezing and thawing, limiting it to a specific crew won't necessarily change that. My Fleet is stuck on Easy and Normal, so a pool of 3* and below for us. I've simply been keeping all the low level crew from Portals and Voyages. I dismiss and reenlist as necessary to have who I need on hand. I unlock at least one and as many as three nodes per chain this way. No Merits. I've mentioned the tactic to my Fleet several times, even before the feature was live. Not sure how many are doing it.
    W.W. Carlisle
    Played since January 20, 2019
    Captain Level- 99 (May 9, 2022)
    VIP 14
    Crew Quarters: 470/470 +2
    Most recent/Lowest- The Professor (1/5* Lvl 1) 5/24/22
    Immortalized x-707 5* x106, 4* x421, 3* x91, 2* x57, and 1* x27
    Most recent Immortal - Badgey 3* 5/10/22
    Current non-event project- Improving my Medical base skill and freeing slots by immortalizing my FF SCI crew and freezing the unhelpful. Currently have ONE- Temporal Agents! Engineering will be next.
  • RookiebatmanRookiebatman ✭✭✭
    I unlock at least one and as many as three nodes per chain this way.

    You don't think limiting it to a specific crew will decrease the chances of this outcome?

  • Copied from the FBB feedback thread, where I posted because I didn't know about this thread...
    Shan wrote:
    How it’s currently working:

    - a node can be unlocked by using multiple crew who each have one of the required traits to unlock the node.

    How it should be working:

    - a node can only be unlocked by using 1 crew having the correct set of required traits.

    Interesting that they're rushing to "fix" this little quirk that actually helped people, but are not prioritizing the restriction of node-unlocking crew to be someone who's already in the portal. In other words, they've taken our feedback about how frustrating it is for nodes to require frozen crew, or crew that people just don't even have at all, and they're taking prompt, deliberate action to make those problems more likely to happen.

    But hey, it's all good because they're giving us a care package with enough merits to thaw barely more than two people a day for one week. That should make up for the long-term issues with this mode that they're actively making worse. :/
    Shan wrote:
    Completing a combo will grant each fleet member with a same temporary buff to a ship stat, and this for the remainder of the boss battle. The effectiveness of the buff given will be rolled and will be random based on specific parameters.

    ...This will make each boss battle run different from your previous run, and we are hoping that receiving a buff will encourage you to experiment with ship and crew loadout to do the most damage possible. This system will also help players do more damage.

    I don't understand how this is supposed to have that effect. If different battles have different buffs, then using different crew tells me less about which crew is better, because I can never be sure whether more damage was the result of the crew or the buffs. Isolating variables is the way to get helpful data, not adding more variables. One thing I liked about FBB was that you could make apples-to-apples comparisons of different crews, because you were fighting the same enemy every time, as compared to Arena where you never know if this crew was better or that enemy was just weaker (and yes, I know there is some RNG here, but it's not nearly as bad as going up against a completely different ship and crew).

    I know I might come off like I'm just seeing the glass half empty with everything here, but I sincerely don't understand why they think this would make players more likely to experiment with ship and crew loadouts.

    I dont think its half empty. I think you nailed it.

    While i appreciate that they at least gave lip service to some of the issues presented, they really missed the underlying problems presented in our feedback.

    Limiting the nodes to one specific crew is going to exacerbate problems with non-portal crew being required for combo chains. And the real nasty part is that you might not know its a blocked chain until you wasted all your valor and maybe even wasted merits and dilithium trying.


    Wrg, you guys are going to kill every ounce of “fun” potential this feature has. Im sorry for being negative. But this is not cool.
  • RookiebatmanRookiebatman ✭✭✭
    While i appreciate that they at least gave lip service to some of the issues presented, they really missed the underlying problems presented in our feedback.

    Which is really frustrating because multiple people spelled out the underlying problems explicitly. Makes it sound like whoever is ultimately responsible for the final decisions on these things (maybe not the game devs) don't actually care about player feedback or fostering a positive experience.

    At least, if that was how they felt, I don't know how they would act much different.
  • W.W. CarlisleW.W. Carlisle ✭✭✭✭✭
    I unlock at least one and as many as three nodes per chain this way.

    You don't think limiting it to a specific crew will decrease the chances of this outcome?

    Where does it say it is being limited to A specific crew?
    As it is, people are unlocking one node by pairing two crew to clear it, when it SHOULD be ONE crew, any crew, that possesses both traits. Human with a hidden trait of Cyberneticist should be cleared by Crusher, Geordi, Torres, 1* Bashir, Maddox,...depending on level. It's letting people clear a Physican+Engineered node with Crusher and Khan in one run, instead of a Bashir, like it should.
    I don't pair two crew. I use logic to figure out which crew or crew pool fill a slot and, then, make a run, if I have Valor and have them or post to the chat, if I lack Valor or the right crew. That's why I automatically discard certain crew. Any of their combos can be matched by others.
    W.W. Carlisle
    Played since January 20, 2019
    Captain Level- 99 (May 9, 2022)
    VIP 14
    Crew Quarters: 470/470 +2
    Most recent/Lowest- The Professor (1/5* Lvl 1) 5/24/22
    Immortalized x-707 5* x106, 4* x421, 3* x91, 2* x57, and 1* x27
    Most recent Immortal - Badgey 3* 5/10/22
    Current non-event project- Improving my Medical base skill and freeing slots by immortalizing my FF SCI crew and freezing the unhelpful. Currently have ONE- Temporal Agents! Engineering will be next.
  • RookiebatmanRookiebatman ✭✭✭

    Where does it say it is being limited to A specific crew?
    As it is, people are unlocking one node by pairing two crew to clear it, when it SHOULD be ONE crew, any crew, that possesses both traits. Human with a hidden trait of Cyberneticist should be cleared by Crusher, Geordi, Torres, 1* Bashir, Maddox,...depending on level. It's letting people clear a Physican+Engineered node with Crusher and Khan in one run, instead of a Bashir, like it should.
    I don't pair two crew. I use logic to figure out which crew or crew pool fill a slot and, then, make a run, if I have Valor and have them or post to the chat, if I lack Valor or the right crew. That's why I automatically discard certain crew. Any of their combos can be matched by others.

    Why SHOULD? Why can't they do the thing that gives players MORE options of which crew to use, more ability to be creative? Why can't they do it the way that combines the fun of figuring out which traits are possible matches, and the fun of figuring out how to cover as many of those traits with multiple crew as possible?

    There was one time when I helped my fleet figure out a single lineup of four crew which would cover 10 different eligible traits in the bottom board. To me, that seems a lot more fun than just picking 10 crew (that each have the revealed trait and one of the hidden traits), and then checking them each off the list like Clue (you know, the board game that's mainly aimed at children because of how simple and straightforward the deduction is). By limiting it to only the specific crew that match all of the traits singlehandedly, they've taken away the ability to think outside the box at all, to not solve a node in the most obvious and superficial way. The most fun I had with fleet battles was figuring out how to pack as many traits into as few crew as possible, and now they're taking that fun away from me.

    All to meet some arbitrary standard of SHOULD that really just makes it so players will consume more resources playing this (merits to thaw crew, dilithium to buy new crew just to make sure they have all the bases covered, dilithium for Valor refills because not being able to rule out traits with multiple separate crew means more attack runs to try different matches).
  • [SSR] GTMET[SSR] GTMET ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 22
    All to meet some arbitrary standard of SHOULD that really just makes it so players will consume more resources playing this (merits to thaw crew, dilithium to buy new crew just to make sure they have all the bases covered, dilithium for Valor refills because not being able to rule out traits with multiple separate crew means more attack runs to try different matches).

    Exactly! And then you finally clear the node, except you got no dmg for it, so now you don’t hit the thresholds (and let’s be clear you need to hit max thresh to level your bridge with the escalating magnesite costs). But don’t worry, you get a 3% boost to dmg to your remaking 2 valor to totally make up for it.

    Everyone in the fleet is unhappy about this. Why take something that is fun and making us engaged (and spend dil because it’s fun) and prioritize ruining while you ignore the main issue we have?
  • WaldoMagWaldoMag ✭✭✭✭✭

    Where does it say it is being limited to A specific crew?
    As it is, people are unlocking one node by pairing two crew to clear it, when it SHOULD be ONE crew, any crew, that possesses both traits. Human with a hidden trait of Cyberneticist should be cleared by Crusher, Geordi, Torres, 1* Bashir, Maddox,...depending on level. It's letting people clear a Physican+Engineered node with Crusher and Khan in one run, instead of a Bashir, like it should.
    I don't pair two crew. I use logic to figure out which crew or crew pool fill a slot and, then, make a run, if I have Valor and have them or post to the chat, if I lack Valor or the right crew. That's why I automatically discard certain crew. Any of their combos can be matched by others.

    Why SHOULD? Why can't they do the thing that gives players MORE options of which crew to use, more ability to be creative? Why can't they do it the way that combines the fun of figuring out which traits are possible matches, and the fun of figuring out how to cover as many of those traits with multiple crew as possible?

    There was one time when I helped my fleet figure out a single lineup of four crew which would cover 10 different eligible traits in the bottom board. To me, that seems a lot more fun than just picking 10 crew (that each have the revealed trait and one of the hidden traits), and then checking them each off the list like Clue (you know, the board game that's mainly aimed at children because of how simple and straightforward the deduction is). By limiting it to only the specific crew that match all of the traits singlehandedly, they've taken away the ability to think outside the box at all, to not solve a node in the most obvious and superficial way. The most fun I had with fleet battles was figuring out how to pack as many traits into as few crew as possible, and now they're taking that fun away from me.

    All to meet some arbitrary standard of SHOULD that really just makes it so players will consume more resources playing this (merits to thaw crew, dilithium to buy new crew just to make sure they have all the bases covered, dilithium for Valor refills because not being able to rule out traits with multiple separate crew means more attack runs to try different matches).

    You get it.

    My only concern is they may make it very rewarding to unlock a combo. Maybe one of the resources you get for 50% boss damage. So, I could theoretically with 4 valor unlock all the combos for 4 tiers of combos. This is where I have to say if the rewards are good, going back to the way it was intended would be right. However, then crew should be limited to crew in the portal.
  • RookiebatmanRookiebatman ✭✭✭
    WaldoMag wrote: »
    However, then crew should be limited to crew in the portal.

    The very least they could've done is waited until they figured out how to do this before implementing the change that makes it harder.

  • [SSR] GTMET[SSR] GTMET ✭✭✭✭✭
    WaldoMag wrote: »
    However, then crew should be limited to crew in the portal.

    The very least they could've done is waited until they figured out how to do this before implementing the change that makes it harder.

    I realized too that gauntlet exclusive crew are in the combo chains too. I had a node that only the red angel could clear
  • WaldoMag wrote: »
    However, then crew should be limited to crew in the portal.

    The very least they could've done is waited until they figured out how to do this before implementing the change that makes it harder.

    I realized too that gauntlet exclusive crew are in the combo chains too. I had a node that only the red angel could clear

    They need to fix this immediately.

    It should be portal only, which compliments crew retrieval.

    The current approach is really just insane. And not solving current sources of frustration but working dilligently to make them worse and more aggrivating.

    This feature has tremendous potential, WRG!!! Stop truing to outsmart us. You cant. Listen to us and work with the grain.

  • (HGH)Apollo(HGH)Apollo ✭✭✭✭✭
    You are ending the one thing players found that made unlocking combos and doing FBB easier? Lame.
    Let’s fly!
  • RookiebatmanRookiebatman ✭✭✭
    You are ending the one thing players found that made unlocking combos and doing FBB easier? Lame.

    More than lame, downright insulting. It's as if they're actively working to make the player experience less positive.
  • This Sisko1This Sisko1 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 23
    This seems like a bad thing to cap
    di1hmqpjbal8.png
  • RookiebatmanRookiebatman ✭✭✭
    This seems like a bad thing to cap

    What level is your bridge on? How much more do you think you'll need?
  • This Sisko1This Sisko1 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 23
    To clarify, here is level 8 requirements:
    nx7w9tb4a5ib.jpg

    That's 6,000 each already, then 9k each bonus in the level and on and on. Will go up to 20k. Also means people that get max rewards will start to miss out on the magnesite if they are maxed but also still need it for their bridge. As in people get 52 mil in nightmare, max magnasite but hit the cap and their reward is lost.
  • RookiebatmanRookiebatman ✭✭✭
    Wow, that's awful (add it to the list).
  • RookiebatmanRookiebatman ✭✭✭
    Oh man, the rate at which the magnesite costs escalate, and you're only at level 8/20, I wonder if it'll get to a point where a single upgrade costs more than 32,767 Magnesite, and it's just literally impossible to upgrade any further because that's about how much thought they've put into a lot of elements of this game mode.
  • Oh man, the rate at which the magnesite costs escalate, and you're only at level 8/20, I wonder if it'll get to a point where a single upgrade costs more than 32,767 Magnesite, and it's just literally impossible to upgrade any further because that's about how much thought they've put into a lot of elements of this game mode.

    Lol. Honestly it would not surprise me in the slightest if they did something like that. But really, thats a back burner issue, for now lets focus on making it more impossible for the players ;)
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