Thank you Shan. I really appreciate all the effort the team has put in to this. They're clearly listening to our feedback and looking to fix things as quickly as possible.
Who is this "our" you're speaking collectively for? They're certainly not listening to my feedback. Oh, did you mean the people saying the feature doesn't work at all unless they fix this thing? That's not listening to feedback, that's listening to bug reports.
Even before nodes were unlockable if you got a new trait just released. This is the right fix and we should be thanking them for it not complaining about another fix just because you liked that bug.
We should be thanking them for simply making sure the game mode is not impossible? I'm sorry, I thought the objective of game development (and feedback) was to make the game mode fun. Guess I was mistaken.
Correction, that should read "thanking them for saying they will eventually make sure the game mode is not impossible." Even worse.
Personally, I find it fun to puzzle out what crew can unlock specific nodes.
This new game mode isn't perfect, but they are listening to what we have to say and reacting to it. Some things are changing as a consequence (see the "Feature Additions" section of this post if you would like some examples), but some things won't because they don't fit with their vision. And that's okay, because this game isn't run as a democracy. If you don't like it, vote with your wallet instead of attacking every person who dares say something positive.
Personally, I find it fun to puzzle out what crew can unlock specific nodes.
Sure, that's part of the fun, but it already was when traits could be spread over multiple crew. Before they nerfed the feature, the traits needed to unlock a node always were bound within one crew (that existed in the game even if it wasn't accessible to the players). So you could still try to puzzle out which crew that might be (and therefore, which traits in the bottom board were possible matches). But then, having put together a full list of the possible traits that might match, you could then have the additional, compounded fun of puzzling out which smaller assortment of crew (small enough to fit in a single attack) could cover as many of those traits as possible.
The thing I personally found fun (which is gone forever now because WRG doesn't care about people like me having fun) did not take anything away from the thing you find fun, it added to it.
Some things are changing as a consequence (see the "Feature Additions" section of this post if you would like some examples)
And I won't criticize people if they thank WRG for listening when those changes actually happen. But talk is cheap; the only thing I know right now is that one of the very first things WRG ever did after releasing this game mode and then asking for feedback was urgently racing to take away something that players were telling them was fun and begging them not to take away. First impressions matter, and I think the first impression they chose to leave here is something we should be paying attention to. When one of the first things they ever do after releasing a game mode is the exact opposite of the feedback people are giving them, it makes it really hard for me to believe they're actually listening and taking feedback to heart.
If you don't like it, vote with your wallet instead of attacking every person who dares say something positive.
To be perfectly frank, I believe the reason WRG took away the ability to unlock traits with multiple crew (as well as things like refusing to give fleets the ability to only have officers open new battles) was because doing so would lead players to spend more dilithium on FBB, and thus more real cash buying dilithium. I believe the conscious decision that someone somewhere in the organization (not necessarily the developers) made was "more money, less fun = good."
If I'm right about that, we should all be very concerned about what that will entail for future directions this game will take. If they keep being motivated solely by profit and not making an effort to foster a positive player experience more than the bare minimum to make the game mode functional, that's gonna drive players away which is ironically gonna drive profits down, and eventually the game just won't exist anymore (and if that sad day comes, they're not gonna keep one server open for the people who only said positive things about boss battles). I don't want that to happen.
When I question why people are thanking WRG for doing the absolute bare minimum, I'm not attacking them, I'm encouraging them to have higher standards for this game so it can continue to be successful and fun for everyone. I think that's more productive than just quietly voting with my wallet instead of articulating and expressing (as often as is necessary) why I'm unsatisfied with the product and what it would take to change that.
To be perfectly frank, I believe the reason WRG took away the ability to unlock traits with multiple crew (as well as things like refusing to give fleets the ability to only have officers open new battles) was because doing so would lead players to spend more dilithium on FBB, and thus more real cash buying dilithium. I believe the conscious decision that someone somewhere in the organization (not necessarily the developers) made was "more money, less fun = good."
The impression I get with this is absurd pessimist.
To be perfectly frank, I believe the reason WRG took away the ability to unlock traits with multiple crew (as well as things like refusing to give fleets the ability to only have officers open new battles) was because doing so would lead players to spend more dilithium on FBB, and thus more real cash buying dilithium. I believe the conscious decision that someone somewhere in the organization (not necessarily the developers) made was "more money, less fun = good."
To be perfectly frank, every demo we saw showed specific crew being used. The FAQ talked about a specific crew. The feature was clearly designed with the idea that a specific crew was used.
When the feature launched and a bug was discovered, the only decision that was made was, "we should fix this bug that is causing the feature to work differently than we intended it". They spent months designing and building this feature. They wanted it to work one way. They then discovered it was working a different way. So they fixed it.
There was no thought about, "lets make this feature less fun". I would challenge the assumption that a specific crew is less fun than overall traits. Overall traits is certainly easier, but easier isn't the same as fun. I'm going to assume over the months of designing and building it, they decided on one specific crew because they thought it was more fun/would lead to higher engagement.
I'm sorry you wanted the feature to be easier. You may even think that being easy is fun. But just because you want the easy road doesn't mean that that's more fun for everyone.
The impression I get with this is absurd pessimist.
Pessimistic maybe, but not absurd. I'd be as happy as anyone if I ended up being wrong about this, but so far they haven't given me any reason to think I am. There are two choices WRG has made (whether nodes can be unlocked with multiple crew, and whether fleets can have the option to lock bosses they don't want non-officers to open), and in both cases, WRG has ignored the clear consensus of the players, in favor of the option that pushes players toward spending more valor, and thus more dilithium.
[EDIT: I forgot about how there was also persistent feedback that they needed to change the personal thresholds so that everyone who attacks a boss gets some rewards, and they just cut the thresholds in half instead of doing what the player feedback was begging them for. This is how bad it's gotten, that I literally couldn't even remember all the times that they ignored player feedback in favor of something that would push people to spend more dilithium.]
If they don't want me to believe that they think, "more money, less fun = good," they need to stop doing things that make the game mode less fun while allowing them to make more money. It's pretty straightforward.
When the feature launched and a bug was discovered, the only decision that was made was, "we should fix this bug that is causing the feature to work differently than we intended it".
There's a difference between a bug, like a character in a shooter clipping through a wall or the floor, and something that could very easily have been a deliberate design feature, but they just didn't happen to go in that direction. For the latter case, if that feature pops up accidentally and players provide feedback that it makes the game mode more fun, why not just keep it?
They could've gained so much goodwill and demonstrated their willingness to listen to the fans by just doing nothing. Why were they in such a frenzied hurry to implement a change to take something away that players were enjoying? I think greed is the most logical hypothesis. It's not like this bug was making the game mode unplayable (whereas, they've been less expeditious about fixing those elements that do actually make the game mode unplayable for some players).
Look at your own word choice; "they discovered it was working a different way." They didn't discover it was not working or breaking the game. They just discovered the game was fully and enjoyably functional, but in a different way than they had in mind. If that different way is more fun for players, why should it matter that it wasn't what they originally intended? If players having fun is their primary goal, then this just means they succeeded better than they had intended. That should be something they celebrate, not race to change as quickly as possible.
There was no thought about, "lets make this feature less fun". I would challenge the assumption that a specific crew is less fun than overall traits. Overall traits is certainly easier, but easier isn't the same as fun.
I agree that being able to unlock a node with traits spread over multiple crew is easier in the sense that it makes it possible to complete a combo chain with fewer attacks (and therefore fewer valor repleni$hes), but it's not easier in the sense of deciding which crew to bring on your ship. If your goal is to just try every set of matching traits one at a time, slowly going through the process of elimination like a game of Clue, you just pick one of the crew in the set of those that match, and work your way down the list (mindlessly, once the list of matches are assembled). Whereas, if you can spread traits over multiple crew, then it becomes a whole game in itself to figure out how many of the different possible matching traits you can fit into one ship of four crew. It becomes more complex and strategic and creative than what the designers originally intended. I see no reason why the designers shouldn't have accepted that as a happy accident (if an enjoyable player experience was more important to them than pushing dilithium sales).
I'm sorry you wanted the feature to be easier. You may even think that being easy is fun. But just because you want the easy road doesn't mean that that's more fun for everyone.
If all I wanted was the "easy road" (nice strawman, lol), then I would just be banging the drum for WRG to decrease the health of all the bosses, instead of pleading for them to bring back a feature that actually requires more thought and effort to make use of that feature effectively, because I consider that increased complexity to be more fun.
Pessimistic maybe, but not absurd. I'd be as happy as anyone if I ended up being wrong about this, but so far they haven't given me any reason to think I am. There are two choices WRG has made (whether nodes can be unlocked with multiple crew, and whether fleets can have the option to lock bosses they don't want non-officers to open), and in both cases, WRG has ignored the clear consensus of the players, in favor of the option that pushes players toward spending more valor, and thus more dilithium. If they don't want me to believe that they think, "more money, less fun = good," they need to stop doing things that make the game mode less fun while allowing them to make more money. It's pretty straightforward.
There is no clear consensus whether nodes needs to be unlocked with multiple crew.
There is a clear consensus that everyone should be able to unlock nodes. When it is changed to portal crew, it is done.
There is somewhat consensus with an option to lock bosses. I already showed you that there are people who expressed that they did not wanted it.
There is no clear consensus whether nodes needs to be unlocked with multiple crew.
The clear consensus I was referring to was that a lot of players said being able to unlock nodes with multiple crew was a fun feature that should be kept, and none were saying it made their experience less positive. Once again, they made it one of their first and highest priorities to urgently and promptly implement the exact opposite of what players were saying was fun. It's not absurd for me to see that and then conclude they don't care about whether players have fun.
There is somewhat consensus with an option to lock bosses. I already showed you that there are people who expressed that they did not wanted it.
And that's why we already agreed that it should be optional, to let each fleet decide for themselves. But WRG won't even do that, despite how many players are saying that the lack of this element is drastically decreasing their enjoyment of the game mode.
Everyone who hits a boss needs to get rewards when it is defeated. The newer players in my fleet don’t have maxed ships and good boom crew to get the damage necessary to meet these arbitrary minimum damage thresholds. They are getting very frustrated and left behind. This Boss feature is detrimental to new players enjoyment of the game and long term sustainability of this game if they are being left behind as they currently are.
I always had the impression it was a pool of crew with a specific combination of traits for each node and operated that way. Human+Federation= Large pool
Jury Rigger + Pilot at 3*s or less= 2* Tucker.
I may be the only member of my fleet that even knows they could be unlocked this way, as I'm not sure if any other Troopers are here. We work out the pool and people clear nodes as they can from a list and update as traits are matched or crew don't work. I doubt this fix will effect us at all. We've never done it the other way.
I don't know about outright locking, but I am definitely onboard for reccing.
W.W. CarlislePlayed since January 20, 2019Captain Level- 99 (May 9, 2022)VIP 14Crew Quarters: 485/485Most recent/Lowest- Anbo-jyutsu Kyle Riker (1/5* Lvl 30) 5/29/23Immortalized x-866 5* x184, 4* x 490, 3* x91, 2* x62, and 1* x27Most recent Immortal - Tearful Janeway 4* 5/25/23Current non-event project- Improving my Science base skill. Retrieval Project- Mestral 1/5*
To be perfectly frank, I believe the reason WRG took away the ability to unlock traits with multiple crew (as well as things like refusing to give fleets the ability to only have officers open new battles) was because doing so would lead players to spend more dilithium on FBB, and thus more real cash buying dilithium. I believe the conscious decision that someone somewhere in the organization (not necessarily the developers) made was "more money, less fun = good."
To be perfectly frank, every demo we saw showed specific crew being used. The FAQ talked about a specific crew. The feature was clearly designed with the idea that a specific crew was used.
When the feature launched and a bug was discovered, the only decision that was made was, "we should fix this bug that is causing the feature to work differently than we intended it". They spent months designing and building this feature. They wanted it to work one way. They then discovered it was working a different way. So they fixed it.
There was no thought about, "lets make this feature less fun". I would challenge the assumption that a specific crew is less fun than overall traits. Overall traits is certainly easier, but easier isn't the same as fun. I'm going to assume over the months of designing and building it, they decided on one specific crew because they thought it was more fun/would lead to higher engagement.
I'm sorry you wanted the feature to be easier. You may even think that being easy is fun. But just because you want the easy road doesn't mean that that's more fun for everyone.
It is hard to imagine that the testing involved was particularly thorough if such a fundamental "bug" got through. It goes to the core gameplay of the mode. Further, it means that the balancing determined by that testing was based on the bugged function, which means that the "fix" renders the mode harder than was intended.
Putting that aside, the whole point of it being released in beta is, one would hope, to see how it works in practice and take on board player feedback. The feedback is quite clear.
To be perfectly frank, I believe the reason WRG took away the ability to unlock traits with multiple crew (as well as things like refusing to give fleets the ability to only have officers open new battles) was because doing so would lead players to spend more dilithium on FBB, and thus more real cash buying dilithium. I believe the conscious decision that someone somewhere in the organization (not necessarily the developers) made was "more money, less fun = good."
To be perfectly frank, every demo we saw showed specific crew being used. The FAQ talked about a specific crew. The feature was clearly designed with the idea that a specific crew was used.
When the feature launched and a bug was discovered, the only decision that was made was, "we should fix this bug that is causing the feature to work differently than we intended it". They spent months designing and building this feature. They wanted it to work one way. They then discovered it was working a different way. So they fixed it.
There was no thought about, "lets make this feature less fun". I would challenge the assumption that a specific crew is less fun than overall traits. Overall traits is certainly easier, but easier isn't the same as fun. I'm going to assume over the months of designing and building it, they decided on one specific crew because they thought it was more fun/would lead to higher engagement.
I'm sorry you wanted the feature to be easier. You may even think that being easy is fun. But just because you want the easy road doesn't mean that that's more fun for everyone.
It is hard to imagine that the testing involved was particularly thorough if such a fundamental "bug" got through. It goes to the core gameplay of the mode. Further, it means that the balancing determined by that testing was based on the bugged function, which means that the "fix" renders the mode harder than was intended.
Putting that aside, the whole point of it being released in beta is, one would hope, to see how it works in practice and take on board player feedback. The feedback is quite clear.
One think that is clear is FBB did not have enough testing. The number of quick fixes they've had to do since release is proof enough. They clearly said, we expect this node to be cleared with X crew, tested X crew saw that it worked and moved on. They never tested if other crew or crews could unlock the node. I'm the first to criticize WRG and TP before them for not enough testing. But just because FBB ran and allowed the battle to be completed doesn't mean that something wasn't a bug that needed to be fixed.
I'll remind you of the AND bug from years ago. In a shuttle when you get a seat with two skills it's supposed to be the higher skill + 25% of the lower skill. That's what the client UI showed. But players complained for years about lower than expected success rates. Eventually players proved that the server was doing first skill +25% of the second skill. Even if the second was higher. Should WRG have kept calculation as programmed? After all it "worked". No, it was a bug that needed to be fixed. I still don't fully trust WRG because they silently fixed this without admitting the bug existed. But I'm glad they at least fixed it.
A bug is a bug, even if the game still runs. So I'm fine that they fixed the trait bug.
I'll remind you of the AND bug from years ago. In a shuttle when you get a seat with two skills it's supposed to be the higher skill + 25% of the lower skill. That's what the client UI showed. But players complained for years about lower than expected success rates. Eventually players proved that the server was doing first skill +25% of the second skill. Even if the second was higher. Should WRG have kept calculation as programmed? After all it "worked". No, it was a bug that needed to be fixed. I still don't fully trust WRG because they silently fixed this without admitting the bug existed. But I'm glad they at least fixed it.
There's the difference right there. It was a bug that needed to be fixed because it made the player experience worse. This one does not.
I'd just like to say that I like the fact that you have to find a single crew with the right combo to unlock a node. I think it's more fun this way rather than spreading the traits over multiple crew. It's more of a challenge, and challenging is fun. This game needs more of a challenge, too much of it is just mindless button pressing so if that's what you're into you're already well catered for. So thank you WRG for giving us something that actually required us to use our brains, I'm really enjoying this.
And I'm saying this as part of a fleet that just got stuck behind an impossible node (needed Insubordinate Mariner). We submitted a ticket, Shan unlocked the node in less than 20 minutes. So thank you Shan as well. This has not dented my enjoyment of the feature.
I'd just like to say that I like the fact that you have to find a single crew with the right combo to unlock a node. I think it's more fun this way rather than spreading the traits over multiple crew. It's more of a challenge, and challenging is fun. This game needs more of a challenge, too much of it is just mindless button pressing so if that's what you're into you're already well catered for. So thank you WRG for giving us something that actually required us to use our brains, I'm really enjoying this.
How does just going through a list of matching crew one at a time like a game of Clue require you to use your brain, more than figuring out which combination of four crew can cover the highest number of potential traits? How is trying to figure out how many possible traits you can fit into one attack just mindless button pressing? It kinda seems like you're intent on seeing the glass half full, without actually understanding what the empty part of the glass represents.
There were a lot of people who enjoyed the extra complexity and strategy that spreading nodes over multiple crew opened up. If they had left that feature in, you could still have just chosen to unlock all the nodes with single crew. If that's what was most fun for you, you could've still played it that way without the trait-spreading ability being removed. But as it is, I can't play it the way that's most fun for me. WRG doesn't care about me having fun with Fleet Boss Battles.
I'd just like to say that I like the fact that you have to find a single crew with the right combo to unlock a node. I think it's more fun this way rather than spreading the traits over multiple crew. It's more of a challenge, and challenging is fun. This game needs more of a challenge, too much of it is just mindless button pressing so if that's what you're into you're already well catered for. So thank you WRG for giving us something that actually required us to use our brains, I'm really enjoying this.
And I'm saying this as part of a fleet that just got stuck behind an impossible node (needed Insubordinate Mariner). We submitted a ticket, Shan unlocked the node in less than 20 minutes. So thank you Shan as well. This has not dented my enjoyment of the feature.
We got stuck behind a node on Saturday night-into Sunday. No one home on the weekend to unlock it for us. That is really really....well....sigh
Founding ADM - PoF family of fleets (POF, POF2 & POF3) - Dear TP: Non sequitur. Your facts are uncoordinated.
I'd just like to say that I like the fact that you have to find a single crew with the right combo to unlock a node. I think it's more fun this way rather than spreading the traits over multiple crew. It's more of a challenge, and challenging is fun. This game needs more of a challenge, too much of it is just mindless button pressing so if that's what you're into you're already well catered for. So thank you WRG for giving us something that actually required us to use our brains, I'm really enjoying this.
There were a lot of people who enjoyed the extra complexity and strategy that spreading nodes over multiple crew opened up. If they had left that featurebug in, you could still have just chosen to unlock all the nodes with single crew despite that not being how the feature was designed.
There were a lot of people who enjoyed the extra complexity and strategy that spreading nodes over multiple crew opened up. If they had left that bugthing that makes the game mode more fun in, you could still have just chosen to unlock all the nodes with single crew despite that not being how the feature was designed.
So what? Why should they care if the feature was designed that way or not? If it improves the player experience, why take it away? (Longer response here).
It's not extra complexity and strategy.
It would basically be guess the 8 or so traits of the 18 or so.
The extra complexity is not in guessing the traits, that amount of complexity is exactly the same with or without spreading traits over multiple crew. The extra complexity and strategy comes in trying to figure out how to cover as many of those traits as possible in one attack. That was more complex than it is now, that was more fun than it is now. Unlocking nodes now is just a matter of running through a checklist, with no strategy or creativity to it.
I'd just like to say that I like the fact that you have to find a single crew with the right combo to unlock a node. I think it's more fun this way rather than spreading the traits over multiple crew. It's more of a challenge, and challenging is fun. This game needs more of a challenge, too much of it is just mindless button pressing so if that's what you're into you're already well catered for. So thank you WRG for giving us something that actually required us to use our brains, I'm really enjoying this.
How does just going through a list of matching crew one at a time like a game of Clue require you to use your brain, more than figuring out which combination of four crew can cover the highest number of potential traits? How is trying to figure out how many possible traits you can fit into one attack just mindless button pressing? It kinda seems like you're intent on seeing the glass half full, without actually understanding what the empty part of the glass represents.
There were a lot of people who enjoyed the extra complexity and strategy that spreading nodes over multiple crew opened up. If they had left that feature in, you could still have just chosen to unlock all the nodes with single crew. If that's what was most fun for you, you could've still played it that way without the trait-spreading ability being removed. But as it is, I can't play it the way that's most fun for me. WRG doesn't care about me having fun with Fleet Boss Battles.
What your describing isn’t complexity or strategy. It’s just looking for a few crew that are probably in your roster. Or at least overflow.
The change doesn’t bother me in the slightest. I never realized that the bug was in game and played it how it was supposed to be played. If anything it narrows it down to a couple of highly specific crew which I think is easier.
Like if you want some actual legitimate complaints. How about:
Crew Search within game continues to **tsk tsk**. For example, I can’t search for crew that share two specific traits.
Can’t search or sort by crew ship abilities. Space battles been in game since day 1.
Typing in game as a pain on the phone.
The FBB trait panel should show all appropriate crew and where they’re currently located. Despite the constant bellyaching about FBB monetizing this feature you’d figure there would be a way to retrieve or view offers directly.
The extra complexity is not in guessing the traits, that amount of complexity is exactly the same with or without spreading traits over multiple crew. The extra complexity and strategy comes in trying to figure out how to cover as many of those traits as possible in one attack. That was more complex than it is now, that was more fun than it is now. Unlocking nodes now is just a matter of running through a checklist, with no strategy or creativity to it.
I can see that it would be fun. But not more complex. It's just an easier checklist.
Your check list were only the traits below.
Now you have to consider the traits above.
The strategy and creativity is still getting as many nodes as you can in one attack.
@Ivanstone@Peets - Just because you can't see the complexity doesn't mean it isn't there. I did see it, I enjoyed it, I don't get to enjoy it anymore, and I'm mad that WRG rushed to take away something that multiple players told them made the game mode more fun. It's just that simple.
We could've all played this game mode the way that was more fun for each of us, and all of us doing it in our own way wouldn't have taken anything away from anybody else. But now I can't do that anymore, because WRG doesn't care about me having fun. WRG thinks making money is more important than making the game fun for people like me, and I'm not going to be okay with that just because you can't see the strategy in the thing that I enjoyed.
If you only care about this game mode being fun for players who have the same tastes or play style as you, then I can understand why you would be cool with this change that doesn't affect you. If you want the game mode to be fun for all of the players who have invested a lot of time and money into this game, then you should also be outraged that they removed a way of doing this game mode that multiple players were telling them was fun, even if you weren't one of those players.
It is annoying to remove something players like and which saved them some merits and made Boss battles more fun. It was pretty rare for it to even work. Only had it once.
We could've all played this game mode the way that was more fun for each of us, and all of us doing it in our own way wouldn't have taken anything away from anybody else. But now I can't do that anymore, because WRG doesn't care about me having fun. WRG thinks making money is more important than making the game fun for people like me, and I'm not going to be okay with that just because you can't see the strategy in the thing that I enjoyed.
They said they had to remove it due to their future plans with it.
If it is true, I don't know. Time will tell.
But thinking they just did it to annoy you and make more profit is ridiculous.
I'm not happy how difficult it is to get past lvl 7. The difficulty to get Biltirum I.
Which I have mentioned and they will discover it when they monitor the stats.
I'm confident that they'll do something about it.
Though, making every post on the forum about it and telling everyone with another opinion how wrong they are, won't help at all.
But thinking they just did it to annoy you and make more profit is ridiculous.
Well then it's a good thing I didn't say that.
I said they don't care about me having fun, not that they were actively trying to annoy me. "The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference." I don't think WRG hates players like me, I just think they're completely indifferent about whether I'm having fun or not. If they weren't, then they would've listened when a bunch of players said leaving that "bug" in the game would make it more fun.
Just putting 1 Bitrium I at Brutal 75% might be an idea. It brings it a little closer. Peck it to death. My fleet is chugging along at 50% Hard, but are bridges are building.
W.W. CarlislePlayed since January 20, 2019Captain Level- 99 (May 9, 2022)VIP 14Crew Quarters: 485/485Most recent/Lowest- Anbo-jyutsu Kyle Riker (1/5* Lvl 30) 5/29/23Immortalized x-866 5* x184, 4* x 490, 3* x91, 2* x62, and 1* x27Most recent Immortal - Tearful Janeway 4* 5/25/23Current non-event project- Improving my Science base skill. Retrieval Project- Mestral 1/5*
I'm not happy how difficult it is to get past lvl 7. The difficulty to get Biltirum I.
Which I have mentioned and they will discover it when they monitor the stats.
I'm confident that they'll do something about it.
I am hopeful they will do something about it as well. I can’t believe they’d develop something like this that looks like took a lot of effort and planning to do to only let stay as is and let lots of people just give up not even half way through because the feature just got too difficult. I’m fine with slowly getting to level 20 but never? Then what was the point of playing this part of the game.
The Bilitrium roadblock is a real issue that needs to be addressed. Right now it's next to impossible for anyone other than the handful of top-level whale fleets to get past bridge level 7, and definitely bridge level 9. Putting smaller amounts at the lower damage thresholds on brutal and nightmare would help a lot. Maybe putting one in the top level individual rewards too.
Comments
Personally, I find it fun to puzzle out what crew can unlock specific nodes.
This new game mode isn't perfect, but they are listening to what we have to say and reacting to it. Some things are changing as a consequence (see the "Feature Additions" section of this post if you would like some examples), but some things won't because they don't fit with their vision. And that's okay, because this game isn't run as a democracy. If you don't like it, vote with your wallet instead of attacking every person who dares say something positive.
Sure, that's part of the fun, but it already was when traits could be spread over multiple crew. Before they nerfed the feature, the traits needed to unlock a node always were bound within one crew (that existed in the game even if it wasn't accessible to the players). So you could still try to puzzle out which crew that might be (and therefore, which traits in the bottom board were possible matches). But then, having put together a full list of the possible traits that might match, you could then have the additional, compounded fun of puzzling out which smaller assortment of crew (small enough to fit in a single attack) could cover as many of those traits as possible.
The thing I personally found fun (which is gone forever now because WRG doesn't care about people like me having fun) did not take anything away from the thing you find fun, it added to it.
And I won't criticize people if they thank WRG for listening when those changes actually happen. But talk is cheap; the only thing I know right now is that one of the very first things WRG ever did after releasing this game mode and then asking for feedback was urgently racing to take away something that players were telling them was fun and begging them not to take away. First impressions matter, and I think the first impression they chose to leave here is something we should be paying attention to. When one of the first things they ever do after releasing a game mode is the exact opposite of the feedback people are giving them, it makes it really hard for me to believe they're actually listening and taking feedback to heart.
To be perfectly frank, I believe the reason WRG took away the ability to unlock traits with multiple crew (as well as things like refusing to give fleets the ability to only have officers open new battles) was because doing so would lead players to spend more dilithium on FBB, and thus more real cash buying dilithium. I believe the conscious decision that someone somewhere in the organization (not necessarily the developers) made was "more money, less fun = good."
If I'm right about that, we should all be very concerned about what that will entail for future directions this game will take. If they keep being motivated solely by profit and not making an effort to foster a positive player experience more than the bare minimum to make the game mode functional, that's gonna drive players away which is ironically gonna drive profits down, and eventually the game just won't exist anymore (and if that sad day comes, they're not gonna keep one server open for the people who only said positive things about boss battles). I don't want that to happen.
When I question why people are thanking WRG for doing the absolute bare minimum, I'm not attacking them, I'm encouraging them to have higher standards for this game so it can continue to be successful and fun for everyone. I think that's more productive than just quietly voting with my wallet instead of articulating and expressing (as often as is necessary) why I'm unsatisfied with the product and what it would take to change that.
The impression I get with this is absurd pessimist.
To be perfectly frank, every demo we saw showed specific crew being used. The FAQ talked about a specific crew. The feature was clearly designed with the idea that a specific crew was used.
When the feature launched and a bug was discovered, the only decision that was made was, "we should fix this bug that is causing the feature to work differently than we intended it". They spent months designing and building this feature. They wanted it to work one way. They then discovered it was working a different way. So they fixed it.
There was no thought about, "lets make this feature less fun". I would challenge the assumption that a specific crew is less fun than overall traits. Overall traits is certainly easier, but easier isn't the same as fun. I'm going to assume over the months of designing and building it, they decided on one specific crew because they thought it was more fun/would lead to higher engagement.
I'm sorry you wanted the feature to be easier. You may even think that being easy is fun. But just because you want the easy road doesn't mean that that's more fun for everyone.
Pessimistic maybe, but not absurd. I'd be as happy as anyone if I ended up being wrong about this, but so far they haven't given me any reason to think I am. There are two choices WRG has made (whether nodes can be unlocked with multiple crew, and whether fleets can have the option to lock bosses they don't want non-officers to open), and in both cases, WRG has ignored the clear consensus of the players, in favor of the option that pushes players toward spending more valor, and thus more dilithium.
[EDIT: I forgot about how there was also persistent feedback that they needed to change the personal thresholds so that everyone who attacks a boss gets some rewards, and they just cut the thresholds in half instead of doing what the player feedback was begging them for. This is how bad it's gotten, that I literally couldn't even remember all the times that they ignored player feedback in favor of something that would push people to spend more dilithium.]
If they don't want me to believe that they think, "more money, less fun = good," they need to stop doing things that make the game mode less fun while allowing them to make more money. It's pretty straightforward.
There's a difference between a bug, like a character in a shooter clipping through a wall or the floor, and something that could very easily have been a deliberate design feature, but they just didn't happen to go in that direction. For the latter case, if that feature pops up accidentally and players provide feedback that it makes the game mode more fun, why not just keep it?
They could've gained so much goodwill and demonstrated their willingness to listen to the fans by just doing nothing. Why were they in such a frenzied hurry to implement a change to take something away that players were enjoying? I think greed is the most logical hypothesis. It's not like this bug was making the game mode unplayable (whereas, they've been less expeditious about fixing those elements that do actually make the game mode unplayable for some players).
Look at your own word choice; "they discovered it was working a different way." They didn't discover it was not working or breaking the game. They just discovered the game was fully and enjoyably functional, but in a different way than they had in mind. If that different way is more fun for players, why should it matter that it wasn't what they originally intended? If players having fun is their primary goal, then this just means they succeeded better than they had intended. That should be something they celebrate, not race to change as quickly as possible.
I agree that being able to unlock a node with traits spread over multiple crew is easier in the sense that it makes it possible to complete a combo chain with fewer attacks (and therefore fewer valor repleni$hes), but it's not easier in the sense of deciding which crew to bring on your ship. If your goal is to just try every set of matching traits one at a time, slowly going through the process of elimination like a game of Clue, you just pick one of the crew in the set of those that match, and work your way down the list (mindlessly, once the list of matches are assembled). Whereas, if you can spread traits over multiple crew, then it becomes a whole game in itself to figure out how many of the different possible matching traits you can fit into one ship of four crew. It becomes more complex and strategic and creative than what the designers originally intended. I see no reason why the designers shouldn't have accepted that as a happy accident (if an enjoyable player experience was more important to them than pushing dilithium sales).
If all I wanted was the "easy road" (nice strawman, lol), then I would just be banging the drum for WRG to decrease the health of all the bosses, instead of pleading for them to bring back a feature that actually requires more thought and effort to make use of that feature effectively, because I consider that increased complexity to be more fun.
There is no clear consensus whether nodes needs to be unlocked with multiple crew.
There is a clear consensus that everyone should be able to unlock nodes. When it is changed to portal crew, it is done.
There is somewhat consensus with an option to lock bosses. I already showed you that there are people who expressed that they did not wanted it.
The clear consensus I was referring to was that a lot of players said being able to unlock nodes with multiple crew was a fun feature that should be kept, and none were saying it made their experience less positive. Once again, they made it one of their first and highest priorities to urgently and promptly implement the exact opposite of what players were saying was fun. It's not absurd for me to see that and then conclude they don't care about whether players have fun.
And that's why we already agreed that it should be optional, to let each fleet decide for themselves. But WRG won't even do that, despite how many players are saying that the lack of this element is drastically decreasing their enjoyment of the game mode.
Jury Rigger + Pilot at 3*s or less= 2* Tucker.
I may be the only member of my fleet that even knows they could be unlocked this way, as I'm not sure if any other Troopers are here. We work out the pool and people clear nodes as they can from a list and update as traits are matched or crew don't work. I doubt this fix will effect us at all. We've never done it the other way.
I don't know about outright locking, but I am definitely onboard for reccing.
It is hard to imagine that the testing involved was particularly thorough if such a fundamental "bug" got through. It goes to the core gameplay of the mode. Further, it means that the balancing determined by that testing was based on the bugged function, which means that the "fix" renders the mode harder than was intended.
Putting that aside, the whole point of it being released in beta is, one would hope, to see how it works in practice and take on board player feedback. The feedback is quite clear.
One think that is clear is FBB did not have enough testing. The number of quick fixes they've had to do since release is proof enough. They clearly said, we expect this node to be cleared with X crew, tested X crew saw that it worked and moved on. They never tested if other crew or crews could unlock the node. I'm the first to criticize WRG and TP before them for not enough testing. But just because FBB ran and allowed the battle to be completed doesn't mean that something wasn't a bug that needed to be fixed.
I'll remind you of the AND bug from years ago. In a shuttle when you get a seat with two skills it's supposed to be the higher skill + 25% of the lower skill. That's what the client UI showed. But players complained for years about lower than expected success rates. Eventually players proved that the server was doing first skill +25% of the second skill. Even if the second was higher. Should WRG have kept calculation as programmed? After all it "worked". No, it was a bug that needed to be fixed. I still don't fully trust WRG because they silently fixed this without admitting the bug existed. But I'm glad they at least fixed it.
A bug is a bug, even if the game still runs. So I'm fine that they fixed the trait bug.
There's the difference right there. It was a bug that needed to be fixed because it made the player experience worse. This one does not.
And I'm saying this as part of a fleet that just got stuck behind an impossible node (needed Insubordinate Mariner). We submitted a ticket, Shan unlocked the node in less than 20 minutes. So thank you Shan as well. This has not dented my enjoyment of the feature.
How does just going through a list of matching crew one at a time like a game of Clue require you to use your brain, more than figuring out which combination of four crew can cover the highest number of potential traits? How is trying to figure out how many possible traits you can fit into one attack just mindless button pressing? It kinda seems like you're intent on seeing the glass half full, without actually understanding what the empty part of the glass represents.
There were a lot of people who enjoyed the extra complexity and strategy that spreading nodes over multiple crew opened up. If they had left that feature in, you could still have just chosen to unlock all the nodes with single crew. If that's what was most fun for you, you could've still played it that way without the trait-spreading ability being removed. But as it is, I can't play it the way that's most fun for me. WRG doesn't care about me having fun with Fleet Boss Battles.
We got stuck behind a node on Saturday night-into Sunday. No one home on the weekend to unlock it for us. That is really really....well....sigh
It's not extra complexity and strategy.
It would basically be guess the 8 or so traits of the 18 or so.
FTFY
So what? Why should they care if the feature was designed that way or not? If it improves the player experience, why take it away? (Longer response here).
The extra complexity is not in guessing the traits, that amount of complexity is exactly the same with or without spreading traits over multiple crew. The extra complexity and strategy comes in trying to figure out how to cover as many of those traits as possible in one attack. That was more complex than it is now, that was more fun than it is now. Unlocking nodes now is just a matter of running through a checklist, with no strategy or creativity to it.
What your describing isn’t complexity or strategy. It’s just looking for a few crew that are probably in your roster. Or at least overflow.
The change doesn’t bother me in the slightest. I never realized that the bug was in game and played it how it was supposed to be played. If anything it narrows it down to a couple of highly specific crew which I think is easier.
Like if you want some actual legitimate complaints. How about:
Crew Search within game continues to **tsk tsk**. For example, I can’t search for crew that share two specific traits.
Can’t search or sort by crew ship abilities. Space battles been in game since day 1.
Typing in game as a pain on the phone.
The FBB trait panel should show all appropriate crew and where they’re currently located. Despite the constant bellyaching about FBB monetizing this feature you’d figure there would be a way to retrieve or view offers directly.
I can see that it would be fun. But not more complex. It's just an easier checklist.
Your check list were only the traits below.
Now you have to consider the traits above.
The strategy and creativity is still getting as many nodes as you can in one attack.
We could've all played this game mode the way that was more fun for each of us, and all of us doing it in our own way wouldn't have taken anything away from anybody else. But now I can't do that anymore, because WRG doesn't care about me having fun. WRG thinks making money is more important than making the game fun for people like me, and I'm not going to be okay with that just because you can't see the strategy in the thing that I enjoyed.
If you only care about this game mode being fun for players who have the same tastes or play style as you, then I can understand why you would be cool with this change that doesn't affect you. If you want the game mode to be fun for all of the players who have invested a lot of time and money into this game, then you should also be outraged that they removed a way of doing this game mode that multiple players were telling them was fun, even if you weren't one of those players.
They said they had to remove it due to their future plans with it.
If it is true, I don't know. Time will tell.
But thinking they just did it to annoy you and make more profit is ridiculous.
I'm not happy how difficult it is to get past lvl 7. The difficulty to get Biltirum I.
Which I have mentioned and they will discover it when they monitor the stats.
I'm confident that they'll do something about it.
Though, making every post on the forum about it and telling everyone with another opinion how wrong they are, won't help at all.
Well then it's a good thing I didn't say that.
I said they don't care about me having fun, not that they were actively trying to annoy me. "The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference." I don't think WRG hates players like me, I just think they're completely indifferent about whether I'm having fun or not. If they weren't, then they would've listened when a bunch of players said leaving that "bug" in the game would make it more fun.
I am hopeful they will do something about it as well. I can’t believe they’d develop something like this that looks like took a lot of effort and planning to do to only let stay as is and let lots of people just give up not even half way through because the feature just got too difficult. I’m fine with slowly getting to level 20 but never? Then what was the point of playing this part of the game.