I kept holding out hope that WRG would stop willfully ignoring the clear consensus of player feedback and not make that change to node unlocking (which took away my favorite part of it). I guess I'll just have to live with the knowledge that I'm playing a game made by people who don't care if their business decisions make the game less fun for players. I'll certainly always keep that in mind when thinking about whether to spend money on this game.
Now for some additional context, I totally understand the concerns about hard to get crew with the fix applied to node unlocking logic.
It's the kind of hard decisions we need to make unfortunately.
Addressing the need to have a traits/node system that takes into account how accessible a crew with those traits is, is not a small task. It will be an involved process to implement it.
Due to the length this will take, keeping the trait splitting bug would have been detrimental to players having getting used to it, and this in turn would hurt the feature and all the iterations we are planning for it.
Now for some additional context, I totally understand the concerns about hard to get crew with the fix applied to node unlocking logic.
It's the kind of hard decisions we need to make unfortunately.
Addressing the need to have a traits/node system that takes into account how accessible a crew with those traits is, is not a small task. It will be an involved process to implement it.
Due to the length this will take, keeping the trait splitting bug would have been detrimental to players having getting used to it, and this in turn would hurt the feature and all the iterations we are planning for it.
I'm waiting a day or two to claim, until the crashing and losing the Valor gets fixed. I lost three today and two yesterday. I'm not sure how many tickets I've sent since the Bosses launched. I lost two out of three in a ten minute period about an hour ago!
W.W. CarlislePlayed since January 20, 2019Captain Level- 99 (May 9, 2022)VIP 14Crew Quarters: 485/485Most recent/Lowest- Anbo-jyutsu Kyle Riker (1/5* Lvl 30) 5/29/23Immortalized x-866 5* x184, 4* x 490, 3* x91, 2* x62, and 1* x27Most recent Immortal - Tearful Janeway 4* 5/25/23Current non-event project- Improving my Science base skill. Retrieval Project- Mestral 1/5*
I totally understand the concerns about hard to get crew with the fix applied to node unlocking logic today.
Every time you call it a fix, I take it as a personal insult to my and every other player's intelligence. Mindfulness goes both ways. If you want us to be kind and tactful to you, you need to be honest with us. I would have a lot more respect and sympathy for your position if you said something like, "we had no choice, the money people overruled us," or "we need to do this to keep the lights on," but deceptively presenting the removal of an enjoyable feature with the language of repairing something that was a problem is neither kind nor neutral.
Due to the length this will take, keeping the trait splitting bug would have been detrimental to players having getting used it, and this in turn would hurt the feature and all the iterations we are planning for it.
Besides the fact that plenty of players have already gotten used to it, it wouldn't have been detrimental to players getting used to it if you just kept it forever, because it's fun and makes FBB more interesting and creative. That would make me feel a lot more appreciated than a few days' worth of valor.
How about a daily valor pack of 2 valor? This will cover costs of trying to unlock nodes and make up for the lack of proper rewards. You make the point of saying that it is a Beta and that you can’t fix the things that are impacting players negatively, then stop making us pay full price. Certainly a couple extra valor seems fair compensation for us being beta testers.
Todays bonus was nice, but getting them all at once means we stop accruing so we have to spend it all at once. Just say during beta, here’s some claimable valor to cover things that don’t work perfectly (a crashed ship battle, nose rewards, etc). This would reduce CS workload and be a fair compensation for our frustration. Once the bugs and the rewards are working correctly, end the beta and stop the pack.
This is the only product where beta testers have to pay MORE.
Now for some additional context, I totally understand the concerns about hard to get crew with the fix applied to node unlocking logic.
It's the kind of hard decisions we need to make unfortunately.
Addressing the need to have a traits/node system that takes into account how accessible a crew with those traits is, is not a small task. It will be an involved process to implement it.
Due to the length this will take, keeping the trait splitting bug would have been detrimental to players having getting used to it, and this in turn would hurt the feature and all the iterations we are planning for it.
One suggestion. Just set the crew to portal only for now. Yes you'll miss the voyage, gauntlet, and honor hall, and recent event crew, but there will still be plenty of crew to pick from. Then once you build out the system to measure accessible crew you can increase the crew list. But you at least avoid the hassle/anger that the next month will bring of traits with impossible crew. I would hope limiting it to portal only is a relatively simple check to add.
Now for some additional context, I totally understand the concerns about hard to get crew with the fix applied to node unlocking logic.
It's the kind of hard decisions we need to make unfortunately.
Addressing the need to have a traits/node system that takes into account how accessible a crew with those traits is, is not a small task. It will be an involved process to implement it.
Due to the length this will take, keeping the trait splitting bug would have been detrimental to players having getting used to it, and this in turn would hurt the feature and all the iterations we are planning for it.
One suggestion. Just set the crew to portal only for now. Yes you'll miss the voyage, gauntlet, and honor hall, and recent event crew, but there will still be plenty of crew to pick from. Then once you build out the system to measure accessible crew you can increase the crew list. But you at least avoid the hassle/anger that the next month will bring of traits with impossible crew. I would hope limiting it to portal only is a relatively simple check to add.
That’s literally what we’ve been asking for so either it’s much harder to do, or they don’t want to do that.
Now for some additional context, I totally understand the concerns about hard to get crew with the fix applied to node unlocking logic.
It's the kind of hard decisions we need to make unfortunately.
Addressing the need to have a traits/node system that takes into account how accessible a crew with those traits is, is not a small task. It will be an involved process to implement it.
Due to the length this will take, keeping the trait splitting bug would have been detrimental to players having getting used to it, and this in turn would hurt the feature and all the iterations we are planning for it.
One suggestion. Just set the crew to portal only for now. Yes you'll miss the voyage, gauntlet, and honor hall, and recent event crew, but there will still be plenty of crew to pick from. Then once you build out the system to measure accessible crew you can increase the crew list. But you at least avoid the hassle/anger that the next month will bring of traits with impossible crew. I would hope limiting it to portal only is a relatively simple check to add.
That’s literally what we’ve been asking for so either it’s much harder to do, or they don’t want to do that.
It sounds like they want something fancier. Shan's note said
Addressing the need to have a traits/node system that takes into account how accessible a crew with those traits is, is not a small task. It will be an involved process to implement it.
So it sounds like they want to include last week's 4* crew that most people have, while maybe excluding a 5* Tuesday pack crew that was in the last portal update. Ideally that would be great. But sometimes developers can let the perfect become the enemy of the good. And it's useful to remind them, you don't need to get everything perfect now. Just improve things a little now to buy yourself time for the bigger fix later.
I would say now if you could make the in game messaging easier that would be great and maybe set it to where only officers or admirals can open a battle to keep everyone in the fleet focused on one battle.
Oh and if y'all are already talking about a "season 2" of the boss battle, how long do we have to fully complete our bridge for this one? It feels like this is meant to take a long time
I like that the nodes are like a game to try and find a specific crew card - it's a fun puzzle and mystery.
The problem is, if we are trying to lock to a specific crew, there aren't enough clues to do it for some combos. Some trait combos have 50+ crew members. If the combo comes up as Starfleet/Human you might as well as not bother trying to identify it.
When it was finding a certain combo of traits, then it didn't matter if their are multiple cards that match.
So are we playing a match game or guess who?
If the intention is specific crew, then I feel like the traits need to be locked to combos that only 5 or less cards match, or some sort of additional clues need to be provided.
AND if it's supposed to be a specific card, then I think that card needs to provide some sort of damage bonus the remainder of the round, especially to justify the trait combos that will require some real work to find.
Now for some additional context, I totally understand the concerns about hard to get crew with the fix applied to node unlocking logic.
It's the kind of hard decisions we need to make unfortunately.
Addressing the need to have a traits/node system that takes into account how accessible a crew with those traits is, is not a small task. It will be an involved process to implement it.
Due to the length this will take, keeping the trait splitting bug would have been detrimental to players having getting used to it, and this in turn would hurt the feature and all the iterations we are planning for it.
I just spat out what I was eating. If anyone believe that it was necessary, is really gullible, naïve, and/or lacking cranial capacity which could be construed as being a Pakled. What an insulting comment for such an unnecessary change.
I like that the nodes are like a game to try and find a specific crew card - it's a fun puzzle and mystery.
The problem is, if we are trying to lock to a specific crew, there aren't enough clues to do it for some combos. Some trait combos have 50+ crew members. If the combo comes up as Starfleet/Human you might as well as not bother trying to identify it.
When it was finding a certain combo of traits, then it didn't matter if their are multiple cards that match.
So are we playing a match game or guess who?
If the intention is specific crew, then I feel like the traits need to be locked to combos that only 5 or less cards match, or some sort of additional clues need to be provided.
AND if it's supposed to be a specific card, then I think that card needs to provide some sort of damage bonus the remainder of the round, especially to justify the trait combos that will require some real work to find.
I don't think the fix nerf they did today changed it to be where you can only match the one specific crew. If the correct combo is Starfleet/Human, you can still unlock it with any single crew that has Starfleet and Human. You just can't unlock it with one crew who has Starfleet and another who has Human.
I like that the nodes are like a game to try and find a specific crew card - it's a fun puzzle and mystery.
The problem is, if we are trying to lock to a specific crew, there aren't enough clues to do it for some combos. Some trait combos have 50+ crew members. If the combo comes up as Starfleet/Human you might as well as not bother trying to identify it.
When it was finding a certain combo of traits, then it didn't matter if their are multiple cards that match.
So are we playing a match game or guess who?
If the intention is specific crew, then I feel like the traits need to be locked to combos that only 5 or less cards match, or some sort of additional clues need to be provided.
AND if it's supposed to be a specific card, then I think that card needs to provide some sort of damage bonus the remainder of the round, especially to justify the trait combos that will require some real work to find.
I don't think the fix nerf they did today changed it to be where you can only match the one specific crew. If the correct combo is Starfleet/Human, you can still unlock it with any single crew that has Starfleet and Human. You just can't unlock it with one crew who has Starfleet and another who has Human.
Ah! Then I misunderstood the issue - makes more sense then!
Does anyone have any tips for the best ship and crew combo for brutal? I've been using Borg Sphere with Rura Penthe Reed, Undercover O'Brien, Ardra, and Warship Yar but I'm wondering if there's a better setup some have found
Now for some additional context, I totally understand the concerns about hard to get crew with the fix applied to node unlocking logic.
It's the kind of hard decisions we need to make unfortunately.
Addressing the need to have a traits/node system that takes into account how accessible a crew with those traits is, is not a small task. It will be an involved process to implement it.
Due to the length this will take, keeping the trait splitting bug would have been detrimental to players having getting used to it, and this in turn would hurt the feature and all the iterations we are planning for it.
I just spat out what I was eating. If anyone believe that it was necessary, is really gullible, naïve, and/or lacking cranial capacity which could be construed as being a Pakled. What an insulting comment for such an unnecessary change.
It's the same as Ben saying we didn't want fleets to be able to lock battles because some people in fleets might not be able to contribute or play. I guess he forgot that fleets can BOOT PEOPLE OUT of those fleets if they don't attack the boss they want. But of course, not thinking things all way through then making statements like that have been par for course for 6 years now.
Founding ADM - PoF family of fleets (POF, POF2 & POF3) - Dear TP: Non sequitur. Your facts are uncoordinated.
Well, congratulations. Now no one in the fleet is even trying to solve combos.
Which means they'll have to spend more valor (which you can buy with dilithium) to make up for the damage that combos would've provided. Any way you slice it, this change always comes back to players having to spend more. They clearly made a decision that valued profit over player experience, end of story.
Does anyone have any tips for the best ship and crew combo for brutal? I've been using Borg Sphere with Rura Penthe Reed, Undercover O'Brien, Ardra, and Warship Yar but I'm wondering if there's a better setup some have found
There are some FBB threads in the Ready Room that you might want to look at, including these for crew/ship combos:
Thanks, @Shan
I hadn't considered the idea that if it were left longer before changing it, it would be an even harder thing for us. This makes sense to me. I may prefer no change at all, but if it is going to happen, sooner is better, despite the troubles.
How about fixing this. Let only Admirals and Officers start these. Someone in my fleet came along and started them all at the same time. We were trying to setup hitting nightmare tomorrow morning when we had all gotten to full valor but now we have to wait for the timer to end. Or at least give Admirals more space in message of the day section. Thanks WRG.
I, personally, would like for them fix whatever is bouncing me out of attack runs FIVE TIMES in 24 HOURS! Yes, I've sent tickets. I was using one of the Valor that I was compensated with during this last time. Twice, I was bounced twice in a fifteen or so minute period. That ~2m damage points I didn't deal to our boss. We're on Normal, but five lost runs is five lost runs.
W.W. CarlislePlayed since January 20, 2019Captain Level- 99 (May 9, 2022)VIP 14Crew Quarters: 485/485Most recent/Lowest- Anbo-jyutsu Kyle Riker (1/5* Lvl 30) 5/29/23Immortalized x-866 5* x184, 4* x 490, 3* x91, 2* x62, and 1* x27Most recent Immortal - Tearful Janeway 4* 5/25/23Current non-event project- Improving my Science base skill. Retrieval Project- Mestral 1/5*
Yes, Admirals need more control over the bus battles, either only them can start a new 24 hour battle, or at least they should have control which ones are open to play. I'd love to luckdown "Easy" and "Normal", keep "Hard" on, luck "Brutal" down, keep "Nightmare" in, and luck "Ultra" down, so people can get nuff Kemocite and Magnusite while also being able to get Billy I & II for leveling their bridges up to probably Level 15 or so.
"Everything about the Jem'Hadar is lethal!" - Eris (ST-DS9 Episode 2x26 "The Jem'Hadar")
Thanks, @Shan
I hadn't considered the idea that if it were left longer before changing it, it would be an even harder thing for us. This makes sense to me. I may prefer no change at all, but if it is going to happen, sooner is better, despite the troubles.
Why are you thanking them for taking away a feature you'd prefer they didn't change? We're customers who should let them know when we're not satisfied with their product, not employees who need to kiss up to the boss. They made a change that served no purpose but to increase profit while decreasing fun. We shouldn't be thanking them for doing that promptly before people got too accustomed to actually enjoying this feature.
Thanks, @Shan
I hadn't considered the idea that if it were left longer before changing it, it would be an even harder thing for us. This makes sense to me. I may prefer no change at all, but if it is going to happen, sooner is better, despite the troubles.
Why are you thanking them for taking away a feature you'd prefer they didn't change? We're customers who should let them know when we're not satisfied with their product, not employees who need to kiss up to the boss. They made a change that served no purpose but to increase profit while decreasing fun. We shouldn't be thanking them for doing that promptly before people got too accustomed to actually enjoying this feature.
Perhaps @DavideBooks was saying thank you to Shan for the explanation rather than for the change itself, which David did say he/she may not prefer. It usually doesn't hurt to choose to be nice to someone that way. 🖖
"In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
Thanks, @Shan
I hadn't considered the idea that if it were left longer before changing it, it would be an even harder thing for us. This makes sense to me. I may prefer no change at all, but if it is going to happen, sooner is better, despite the troubles.
Why are you thanking them for taking away a feature you'd prefer they didn't change? We're customers who should let them know when we're not satisfied with their product, not employees who need to kiss up to the boss. They made a change that served no purpose but to increase profit while decreasing fun. We shouldn't be thanking them for doing that promptly before people got too accustomed to actually enjoying this feature.
Perhaps @DavideBooks was saying thank you to Shan for the explanation rather than for the change itself, which David did say he/she may not prefer. It usually doesn't hurt to choose to be nice to someone that way. 🖖
That was my intention, exactly. It is an explanation perfect for why they are doing in *now* when there are other bugs. I appreciate having a good explanation. I am a technician and like to know why stuff does what it does. Why they are doing this change at all is a different issue, but one they won't back down on.
We currently need Shroomies to unlock the final node of the combo. This was a crew in a six pack in May. There is very little chance any of my fleet mates will have it, and no chance we can get it, because it is not in the portal.
Before the fix we could have worked around this by combining crew with the correct traits.
This is likely to be our only chance at beating Brutal for a long time, due to the 10 valor in the portal.
At the same time, we have fleet members insisting on attacking hard, meaning effort is being spread out, instead of concentrated on one battle.
We've tested and proven we can beat hard without unlocking any nodes. Kinda strange when we were stuck on normal and had to "buy" our finish". Guess our better ships and crew paid off. We have coordinated and saved for a run today at brutal with the 10 extra. We are all going to start with a full 14 and give Brutal a go. Probably our one and only shot at it.
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Captain Level 99
Played since January 2017
TP: Do better!!!
The appreciation pack is live!
Now for some additional context, I totally understand the concerns about hard to get crew with the fix applied to node unlocking logic.
It's the kind of hard decisions we need to make unfortunately.
Addressing the need to have a traits/node system that takes into account how accessible a crew with those traits is, is not a small task. It will be an involved process to implement it.
Due to the length this will take, keeping the trait splitting bug would have been detrimental to players having getting used to it, and this in turn would hurt the feature and all the iterations we are planning for it.
I'm waiting a day or two to claim, until the crashing and losing the Valor gets fixed. I lost three today and two yesterday. I'm not sure how many tickets I've sent since the Bosses launched. I lost two out of three in a ten minute period about an hour ago!
Does "mindfulness" just mean never saying anything negative about WRG, or were you referring to some other comment further back?
Every time you call it a fix, I take it as a personal insult to my and every other player's intelligence. Mindfulness goes both ways. If you want us to be kind and tactful to you, you need to be honest with us. I would have a lot more respect and sympathy for your position if you said something like, "we had no choice, the money people overruled us," or "we need to do this to keep the lights on," but deceptively presenting the removal of an enjoyable feature with the language of repairing something that was a problem is neither kind nor neutral.
Besides the fact that plenty of players have already gotten used to it, it wouldn't have been detrimental to players getting used to it if you just kept it forever, because it's fun and makes FBB more interesting and creative. That would make me feel a lot more appreciated than a few days' worth of valor.
Todays bonus was nice, but getting them all at once means we stop accruing so we have to spend it all at once. Just say during beta, here’s some claimable valor to cover things that don’t work perfectly (a crashed ship battle, nose rewards, etc). This would reduce CS workload and be a fair compensation for our frustration. Once the bugs and the rewards are working correctly, end the beta and stop the pack.
This is the only product where beta testers have to pay MORE.
One suggestion. Just set the crew to portal only for now. Yes you'll miss the voyage, gauntlet, and honor hall, and recent event crew, but there will still be plenty of crew to pick from. Then once you build out the system to measure accessible crew you can increase the crew list. But you at least avoid the hassle/anger that the next month will bring of traits with impossible crew. I would hope limiting it to portal only is a relatively simple check to add.
Restricting the crew should not be difficult AT ALL. You already have the code.
Just copy-paste whatever creates this text and apply it when picking the crew to exclude (or reroll if need be)
It sounds like they want something fancier. Shan's note said
So it sounds like they want to include last week's 4* crew that most people have, while maybe excluding a 5* Tuesday pack crew that was in the last portal update. Ideally that would be great. But sometimes developers can let the perfect become the enemy of the good. And it's useful to remind them, you don't need to get everything perfect now. Just improve things a little now to buy yourself time for the bigger fix later.
Oh and if y'all are already talking about a "season 2" of the boss battle, how long do we have to fully complete our bridge for this one? It feels like this is meant to take a long time
STT's Y2K
The problem is, if we are trying to lock to a specific crew, there aren't enough clues to do it for some combos. Some trait combos have 50+ crew members. If the combo comes up as Starfleet/Human you might as well as not bother trying to identify it.
When it was finding a certain combo of traits, then it didn't matter if their are multiple cards that match.
So are we playing a match game or guess who?
If the intention is specific crew, then I feel like the traits need to be locked to combos that only 5 or less cards match, or some sort of additional clues need to be provided.
AND if it's supposed to be a specific card, then I think that card needs to provide some sort of damage bonus the remainder of the round, especially to justify the trait combos that will require some real work to find.
I just spat out what I was eating. If anyone believe that it was necessary, is really gullible, naïve, and/or lacking cranial capacity which could be construed as being a Pakled. What an insulting comment for such an unnecessary change.
I don't think the fix nerf they did today changed it to be where you can only match the one specific crew. If the correct combo is Starfleet/Human, you can still unlock it with any single crew that has Starfleet and Human. You just can't unlock it with one crew who has Starfleet and another who has Human.
Ah! Then I misunderstood the issue - makes more sense then!
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It's the same as Ben saying we didn't want fleets to be able to lock battles because some people in fleets might not be able to contribute or play. I guess he forgot that fleets can BOOT PEOPLE OUT of those fleets if they don't attack the boss they want. But of course, not thinking things all way through then making statements like that have been par for course for 6 years now.
Which means they'll have to spend more valor (which you can buy with dilithium) to make up for the damage that combos would've provided. Any way you slice it, this change always comes back to players having to spend more. They clearly made a decision that valued profit over player experience, end of story.
https://forum.wickedrealmgames.com/stt/discussion/19502/fleet-boss-battle-setup-sheet
https://forum.wickedrealmgames.com/stt/discussion/19513/fast-tool-fleet-boss-arena-and-skirmish-team-v1-1
I hadn't considered the idea that if it were left longer before changing it, it would be an even harder thing for us. This makes sense to me. I may prefer no change at all, but if it is going to happen, sooner is better, despite the troubles.
How about fixing this. Let only Admirals and Officers start these. Someone in my fleet came along and started them all at the same time. We were trying to setup hitting nightmare tomorrow morning when we had all gotten to full valor but now we have to wait for the timer to end. Or at least give Admirals more space in message of the day section. Thanks WRG.
Why are you thanking them for taking away a feature you'd prefer they didn't change? We're customers who should let them know when we're not satisfied with their product, not employees who need to kiss up to the boss. They made a change that served no purpose but to increase profit while decreasing fun. We shouldn't be thanking them for doing that promptly before people got too accustomed to actually enjoying this feature.
That was my intention, exactly. It is an explanation perfect for why they are doing in *now* when there are other bugs. I appreciate having a good explanation. I am a technician and like to know why stuff does what it does. Why they are doing this change at all is a different issue, but one they won't back down on.
We currently need Shroomies to unlock the final node of the combo. This was a crew in a six pack in May. There is very little chance any of my fleet mates will have it, and no chance we can get it, because it is not in the portal.
Before the fix we could have worked around this by combining crew with the correct traits.
This is likely to be our only chance at beating Brutal for a long time, due to the 10 valor in the portal.
At the same time, we have fleet members insisting on attacking hard, meaning effort is being spread out, instead of concentrated on one battle.