Just another chance for them to remove the arbitrary cap and they instead made several other changes.......
I doubt they would've made a change this extensive if the cap was an arbitrary thing they could remove at will. It's probably some kind of weird coding issue.
Interesting solution to magnesite but if it works, I like it.
Just another chance for them to remove the arbitrary cap and they instead made several other changes.......
This is not an arbitrary cap they decided to implement. It's a fundamental limit for integers in certain programming languages. Do you really think they would have done all this if they could have snapped their finger and said poof no limit.
Some things can go well above 32767 (all the in-game currencies, for example) so it's clear that there isn't a hard limit for all integers on the backend. At some level, items and trainers and the like being capped is a design decision. It might be one that was made with reasoning behind it (eg managing the overall amount of data needed to store the details of a player's inventory) and is now impossible to change without unpicking a huge amount of code that assumes it continuing to work that way, but it is a decision.
That said, it seems to me that they could have decided to add the new bridge items as a distinct category, in the same way as they did polestars and constellations when they brought in crew retrieval. But instead they just added them to the main inventory where many people are already having to juggle to stay under the cap.
Some things can go well above 32767 (all the in-game currencies, for example) so it's clear that there isn't a hard limit for all integers on the backend. At some level, items and trainers and the like being capped is a design decision. It might be one that was made with reasoning behind it (eg managing the overall amount of data needed to store the details of a player's inventory) and is now impossible to change without unpicking a huge amount of code that assumes it continuing to work that way, but it is a decision.
That said, it seems to me that they could have decided to add the new bridge items as a distinct category, in the same way as they did polestars and constellations when they brought in crew retrieval. But instead they just added them to the main inventory where many people are already having to juggle to stay under the cap.
I agree adding to the inventory was probably a mistake and added a bunch of problems. But once they decided to put them in the inventory they were stuck with the 32k limit unless they changed it for the entire inventory.
Some things can go well above 32767 (all the in-game currencies, for example) so it's clear that there isn't a hard limit for all integers on the backend. At some level, items and trainers and the like being capped is a design decision. It might be one that was made with reasoning behind it (eg managing the overall amount of data needed to store the details of a player's inventory) and is now impossible to change without unpicking a huge amount of code that assumes it continuing to work that way, but it is a decision.
That said, it seems to me that they could have decided to add the new bridge items as a distinct category, in the same way as they did polestars and constellations when they brought in crew retrieval. But instead they just added them to the main inventory where many people are already having to juggle to stay under the cap.
The limit of 32767 is down to the database design. That's the maximum value of a standard integer database field. A double integer has a maximum value in excess of 2 billion, presumably this is what's being used to store our credit balance, along with chrons, merits, experience points and anything else that can go up to much bigger values.
The difference is that the double takes up more memory than a standard integer, so it's good practice to use ints rather than doubles unless you have a good reason. Each player only has a single value for credits, merits etc so storing those as doubles has minimal impact (as well as being absolutely necessary). But we all have up to 1000 different inventory items, which means the potential memory overhead is much higher. So the choices they've made up until now make sense, and are just basic database design limitations. And let's be honest, this is the first time it's actually been a problem. Hitting 32767 trainers or station materials is an amusing curiosity with no actual impact on gameplay, hitting the limit on magnesite is a real issue.
All of which is probably unnecessarily technical, and doesn't answer three big questions.
1: Why are the bridge materials just being stored as regular inventory items? (Probable answer, it was the easiest option and nobody thought this through properly).
2: Why did this issue with the inventory limit not come up when they were testing the feature? (I think it's obvious by now that they haven't done anywhere near enough in-house testing before releasing this "beta").
3: Why didn't they go with an unsigned integer for the inventory value, which would have allowed us double the inventory for no additional memory overhead? And why haven't they changed the data type at any point since then, given that that's actually a fairly straightforward change to make?
(Probable answer, it was the easiest option and nobody thought this through properly).
I feel like this statement could apply to basically every element of this game mode (at least, every one where they're not choosing the option that induces players to spend more dilithium).
I think if someone "sacrifices" a run by running crew that is needed to unluck nodes and bonies and chains and combinations, their damage bonus should be quintupled (5x bonus damage). Some bonus crew is 4* and simply doesn't have any useful ship ability, therefore the battle gives a lot less damage meowtput. That way with a 1.6 million run on Nightmare for example you'd still do 8 million damage (and that's an adequate reward for using merits and crew slots to activate needed crew for combos).
"Everything about the Jem'Hadar is lethal!" - Eris (ST-DS9 Episode 2x26 "The Jem'Hadar")
I think if someone "sacrifices" a run by running crew that is needed to unluck nodes and bonies and chains and combinations, their damage bonus should be quintupled (5x bonus damage). Some bonus crew is 4* and simply doesn't have any useful ship ability, therefore the battle gives a lot less damage meowtput. That way with a 1.6 million run on Nightmare for example you'd still do 8 million damage (and that's an adequate reward for using merits and crew slots to activate needed crew for combos).
I find it a good idea, but seems very difficult to implement and easy to abuse.
We're still in the process of preparing the deploy of the weekly server, and the fix.
I strenuously object to the use of the term "fix" to describe something that's actually a nerf, something that serves no other purpose than to make this game mode harder for the players so they'll spend more dilithium.
We're still in the process of preparing the deploy of the weekly server, and the fix.
I strenuously object to the use of the term "fix" to describe something that's actually a nerf, something that serves no other purpose than to make this game mode harder for the players so they'll spend more dilithium.
Founding ADM - PoF family of fleets (POF, POF2 & POF3) - Dear TP: Non sequitur. Your facts are uncoordinated.
We're still in the process of preparing the deploy of the weekly server, and the fix.
I strenuously object to the use of the term "fix" to describe something that's actually a nerf, something that serves no other purpose than to make this game mode harder for the players so they'll spend more dilithium.
Yep, that's about how much impact I think it'll have.
We're still in the process of preparing the deploy of the weekly server, and the fix.
I strenuously object to the use of the term "fix" to describe something that's actually a nerf, something that serves no other purpose than to make this game mode harder for the players so they'll spend more dilithium.
We're still in the process of preparing the deploy of the weekly server, and the fix.
I strenuously object to the use of the term "fix" to describe something that's actually a nerf, something that serves no other purpose than to make this game mode harder for the players so they'll spend more dilithium.
It's the magnesite fix.
This server deploy will contain both fixes:
- for the node unlocking
- for the Magnesite
No, the fix they originally announced for this week's update was the nodes. The magnesite fix is also tentatively scheduled for today, but the initial plan for the update was just hobbling players' ability to unlock nodes with multiple crew.
It would be so refreshing if they could fix things that have been broken for years before introducing new things that need fixing in the first week....
Founding ADM - PoF family of fleets (POF, POF2 & POF3) - Dear TP: Non sequitur. Your facts are uncoordinated.
but the initial plan for the update was just hobbling players' ability to unlock nodes with multiple crew.
Wondering if we think the same:
So now if you need to unlock a node with two other traits. You could use two crew to pick one trait each.
But you can still unlock several nodes in one go, if you have four different crew with the correct traits for one of the nodes. You can in theory unlock four nodes. You can't combine two crew for one node anymore.
Sounds logic to me that they would remove it. It's a pain though if the needed traits are in a recent added crew. I would prefer not to have that.
but the initial plan for the update was just hobbling players' ability to unlock nodes with multiple crew.
Wondering if we think the same:
So now if you need to unlock a node with two other traits. You could use two crew to pick one trait each.
But you can still unlock several nodes in one go, if you have four different crew with the correct traits for one of the nodes. You can in theory unlock four nodes. You can't combine two crew for one node anymore.
Sounds logic to me that they would remove it. It's a pain though if the needed traits are in a recent added crew. I would prefer not to have that.
That is exactly the issue, without that being fixed, you are going to run into tons of crew not in the portal who are the only ones that can unlock a node, where in the past you could work around it. That is what most of us are cranky about. I get that it needs to be fixed, but don't fix it till you sort out the crew availability issue.
Sounds logic to me that they would remove it. It's a pain though if the needed traits are in a recent added crew. I would prefer not to have that.
Yes, it sounds perfectly logical to me too, if the only thing they care about is pushing players to spend more dilithium, and not at all about improving the player experience. I mean, if they just came clean and said, "we need to do stuff like this or we won't be able to keep the game running anymore," I would at least appreciate their honesty. But pretending like it's a "fix" to take away a feature (whether intended or not) that helps players beat the bosses more easily (without being so easy that it's cheap) is just insulting and dishonest.
The change they're making to the nodes today is not a fix to anything but their bottom line. They're actively making it less fun for the players so they can make more money. What an awful, short-sighted business model.
I get that it needs to be fixed, but don't fix it till you sort out the crew availability issue.
It doesn't need to be fixed, it's just a fun little bonus that allows players more options to figure out how to solve nodes. It's not like some grand exploit that makes unlocking combo chains effortless. They're already hard enough as it is.
but the initial plan for the update was just hobbling players' ability to unlock nodes with multiple crew.
Wondering if we think the same:
So now if you need to unlock a node with two other traits. You could use two crew to pick one trait each.
But you can still unlock several nodes in one go, if you have four different crew with the correct traits for one of the nodes. You can in theory unlock four nodes. You can't combine two crew for one node anymore.
Sounds logic to me that they would remove it. It's a pain though if the needed traits are in a recent added crew. I would prefer not to have that.
That is exactly the issue, without that being fixed, you are going to run into tons of crew not in the portal who are the only ones that can unlock a node, where in the past you could work around it. That is what most of us are cranky about. I get that it needs to be fixed, but don't fix it till you sort out the crew availability issue.
Add to that, unlocking nodes is already a problematic dilemma, in which you sacrifice a lot of personal damage for the reward of maybe (if someone does as wll) doing some damage that will not granted to any of the attackers (and that damage is the "score" to calculare personal rewards,, so a combo chain completion means reducing the total possible score for all players)
but the initial plan for the update was just hobbling players' ability to unlock nodes with multiple crew.
Wondering if we think the same:
So now if you need to unlock a node with two other traits. You could use two crew to pick one trait each.
But you can still unlock several nodes in one go, if you have four different crew with the correct traits for one of the nodes. You can in theory unlock four nodes. You can't combine two crew for one node anymore.
Sounds logic to me that they would remove it. It's a pain though if the needed traits are in a recent added crew. I would prefer not to have that.
That is exactly the issue, without that being fixed, you are going to run into tons of crew not in the portal who are the only ones that can unlock a node, where in the past you could work around it. That is what most of us are cranky about. I get that it needs to be fixed, but don't fix it till you sort out the crew availability issue.
Add to that, unlocking nodes is already a problematic dilemma, in which you sacrifice a lot of personal damage for the reward of maybe (if someone does as wll) doing some damage that will not granted to any of the attackers (and that damage is the "score" to calculare personal rewards,, so a combo chain completion means reducing the total possible score for all players)
Thanks, I forgot to add again here, that that needs to be fixed along with it.
I think if someone "sacrifices" a run by running crew that is needed to unluck nodes and bonies and chains and combinations, their damage bonus should be quintupled (5x bonus damage). Some bonus crew is 4* and simply doesn't have any useful ship ability, therefore the battle gives a lot less damage meowtput. That way with a 1.6 million run on Nightmare for example you'd still do 8 million damage (and that's an adequate reward for using merits and crew slots to activate needed crew for combos).
100% this. One of my players is a lower level (new) player that has consistently unlocked nodes for us on Normal, but he can't reach the minimum threshold, because he just doesn't have the ability yet. He's using a 4/8 NX, because that is the best he can do. He can't get anywhere like this. He's getting no resources to build his Bridge and he's still trying to build himself, so he'd be competitive period. This is not fair. Please give "Participation Rewards", if nothing more, to everyone that plays on a battle.
W.W. CarlislePlayed since January 20, 2019Captain Level- 99 (May 9, 2022)VIP 14Crew Quarters: 485/485Most recent/Lowest- Anbo-jyutsu Kyle Riker (1/5* Lvl 30) 5/29/23Immortalized x-866 5* x184, 4* x 490, 3* x91, 2* x62, and 1* x27Most recent Immortal - Tearful Janeway 4* 5/25/23Current non-event project- Improving my Science base skill. Retrieval Project- Mestral 1/5*
Comments
I doubt they would've made a change this extensive if the cap was an arbitrary thing they could remove at will. It's probably some kind of weird coding issue.
I think they can't or cost too much, code wise.
This is not an arbitrary cap they decided to implement. It's a fundamental limit for integers in certain programming languages. Do you really think they would have done all this if they could have snapped their finger and said poof no limit.
That said, it seems to me that they could have decided to add the new bridge items as a distinct category, in the same way as they did polestars and constellations when they brought in crew retrieval. But instead they just added them to the main inventory where many people are already having to juggle to stay under the cap.
I agree adding to the inventory was probably a mistake and added a bunch of problems. But once they decided to put them in the inventory they were stuck with the 32k limit unless they changed it for the entire inventory.
The limit of 32767 is down to the database design. That's the maximum value of a standard integer database field. A double integer has a maximum value in excess of 2 billion, presumably this is what's being used to store our credit balance, along with chrons, merits, experience points and anything else that can go up to much bigger values.
The difference is that the double takes up more memory than a standard integer, so it's good practice to use ints rather than doubles unless you have a good reason. Each player only has a single value for credits, merits etc so storing those as doubles has minimal impact (as well as being absolutely necessary). But we all have up to 1000 different inventory items, which means the potential memory overhead is much higher. So the choices they've made up until now make sense, and are just basic database design limitations. And let's be honest, this is the first time it's actually been a problem. Hitting 32767 trainers or station materials is an amusing curiosity with no actual impact on gameplay, hitting the limit on magnesite is a real issue.
All of which is probably unnecessarily technical, and doesn't answer three big questions.
1: Why are the bridge materials just being stored as regular inventory items? (Probable answer, it was the easiest option and nobody thought this through properly).
2: Why did this issue with the inventory limit not come up when they were testing the feature? (I think it's obvious by now that they haven't done anywhere near enough in-house testing before releasing this "beta").
3: Why didn't they go with an unsigned integer for the inventory value, which would have allowed us double the inventory for no additional memory overhead? And why haven't they changed the data type at any point since then, given that that's actually a fairly straightforward change to make?
I feel like this statement could apply to basically every element of this game mode (at least, every one where they're not choosing the option that induces players to spend more dilithium).
I find it a good idea, but seems very difficult to implement and easy to abuse.
The appreciation pack will be made available after that
I strenuously object to the use of the term "fix" to describe something that's actually a nerf, something that serves no other purpose than to make this game mode harder for the players so they'll spend more dilithium.
Yep, that's about how much impact I think it'll have.
It's the magnesite fix.
This server deploy will contain both fixes:
- for the node unlocking
- for the Magnesite
No, the fix they originally announced for this week's update was the nodes. The magnesite fix is also tentatively scheduled for today, but the initial plan for the update was just hobbling players' ability to unlock nodes with multiple crew.
Fixed
Wondering if we think the same:
So now if you need to unlock a node with two other traits. You could use two crew to pick one trait each.
But you can still unlock several nodes in one go, if you have four different crew with the correct traits for one of the nodes. You can in theory unlock four nodes. You can't combine two crew for one node anymore.
Sounds logic to me that they would remove it. It's a pain though if the needed traits are in a recent added crew. I would prefer not to have that.
That is exactly the issue, without that being fixed, you are going to run into tons of crew not in the portal who are the only ones that can unlock a node, where in the past you could work around it. That is what most of us are cranky about. I get that it needs to be fixed, but don't fix it till you sort out the crew availability issue.
Yes, it sounds perfectly logical to me too, if the only thing they care about is pushing players to spend more dilithium, and not at all about improving the player experience. I mean, if they just came clean and said, "we need to do stuff like this or we won't be able to keep the game running anymore," I would at least appreciate their honesty. But pretending like it's a "fix" to take away a feature (whether intended or not) that helps players beat the bosses more easily (without being so easy that it's cheap) is just insulting and dishonest.
The change they're making to the nodes today is not a fix to anything but their bottom line. They're actively making it less fun for the players so they can make more money. What an awful, short-sighted business model.
It doesn't need to be fixed, it's just a fun little bonus that allows players more options to figure out how to solve nodes. It's not like some grand exploit that makes unlocking combo chains effortless. They're already hard enough as it is.
Public profile
Captain Zombie's Combo chain calculator
Thanks, I forgot to add again here, that that needs to be fixed along with it.
100% this. One of my players is a lower level (new) player that has consistently unlocked nodes for us on Normal, but he can't reach the minimum threshold, because he just doesn't have the ability yet. He's using a 4/8 NX, because that is the best he can do. He can't get anywhere like this. He's getting no resources to build his Bridge and he's still trying to build himself, so he'd be competitive period. This is not fair. Please give "Participation Rewards", if nothing more, to everyone that plays on a battle.
Public profile
Captain Zombie's Combo chain calculator
How about just getting it at all?